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Employee theft

Jethro Bodine

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2009
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
I own 2 businesses.
One is my main profession and the other is a small 2 person supply and distribution company. It is a small operation that I bought from a friend a few years ago. 2 employees and it kind of runs itself. It nets me an extra ~$20 - 25K a year and some tax deductions, with little input from me so I keep it going.
Anyway this weekend I did my regular check of the bookeeping records and found that in the past 3 months over $1200.00 in cash is missing from the weekly deposits. Amounts ranging from $40 to $150.00.
We don't do a lot of cash transactions in this business so normally I drop by every 2nd week to pick up the bank deposit.
One of my employees has been with me for over 5 years and the other part-time for 8 months. The part-timer has recently had her hours increased and does do the day end deposit a few times a week.
My first inclination is to blame the new person as for 5 years I've never had an issue and as soon as the new girl starts doing the daily receipts, money is missing. But I also know that recently my full-timer has been having money issues. She's asked me for a couple of salary advancments and also cashed in a couple of her vacation weeks becasue she needed the money. In the past she has confided in me that her hubby has a VLT habit.
I've gone over the security camera video (one in the front counter area, one in the back office and 2 in the storage area) and have seen nothing suspicious but it is normal for them to handle and count cash as well as go into the safe so unless the video actually showed them putting cash into their pocket there is not much evidence to go on.
I'm torn as to what to do.
On one hand I feel like confronting them individually in a manner which indicates I know and have evidence it is them and see if they confess. Kind of like the cops will lie to trick a confession out of someone. But if I do this I risk insutling the innocent one.
My other option is to sit them both down and tell them one of them is a thief. Maybe the one who is will succumb to the guilt of knowing that I know and so does their coworker. It can't be much fun going to work every day knowing that your co-worker knows you're a thief.
Aside from putting tighter controls on the cash which I can do but won't catch the thief nor get me my money back I can't think of how else to get tot the bottom of this.
The part that pisses me off the most is that I am doing these gals a favor by buying and keeping this company going. Like I said I get a bit of income out of it but at the end of the day I could shut the doors and it would have little impact on my life. Yet this is the thanks I get for keeping these people employed.:mad:

Any of you ever dealt with a similiar situation or have experience with this kind of thing.
 

Fast Bikes

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Nov 8, 2006
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Dude

This is a very delicate issue, especially if you are planning to confront them. There are specific Employment Standards Act issues you need to look at before moving forward - accusing someone of stealing without any direct evidence could put you in the middle of a nasty lawsuit.

From my experience, having managed staff from 5-350, someone steeling $40 to $150 at a time isn't there to rip you off but rather is in a desperate situation and needs the extra money to make ends meet. Trust me, taking $1200 over three months isn't making them rich. I would suggest speaking with an labour lawyer first, and then have a open and honest discussion with them both and indicate that there is a shortfall on the cash deposits and that you are there to help them with whatever is going on with their lives. Don't blame, just be there to help. Once you know what is going on, you can make the appropriate decisions as the owner of the business.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

uncleg

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Jul 25, 2006
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Bring in your accountant/bookeeper to go over the books. Just tell them something is not adding up and you want to get to the bottom of it. Leave what's not adding up and why you think there's a problem up in the air. I think they'll get the hint and life will go on. I've had situations where I thought somebody was lite fingered, but it turned out they were just bad at math.
 
Last edited:

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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Bring in your accountant/bookeeper to go over the books. Just tell them something is not adding up and you want to get to the bottom of it. Leave what's not adding up and why you thing there's a problem up in the air. I think they'll get the hint and life will go on. I've had situations where I thought somebody was lite fingered, but it turned out they were just bad at math.
You took the words right out of my mouth.

Bring in the bookkeeper and go over the balance sheet and have them explain the disparities.

Put all three of them in a room until the truth comes out. Do it on a day when your business is shut down so they know you mean business.

One of them will crack when faced with "holy shit they figured it out".

I ran a company in the 90's that had forty employees. Most of our business receipts were by cheque but most of our distributors required cash only sales to us. We typically would outlay up to 5 or 10 K per week so we always had a steady float of cash available in the safe. Two other people besides myself had the combination and only one person went out with the cash to buy the stuff. One week we had 2.5K go missing without any explanation.

I brought in the chief accountant from the Head office to have a meeting with the three people involved. Not to accuse anyone but to go through the timeline as to who did what when and how. In the end it was a lady who had been with the company 30+ years who also turned out to have a gambling habit. She packed up her stuff and was gone in 45 minutes upon arrival of the accountant. She couldn't take the pressure and melted down in front of us.
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I agree that as much as I'd love to confront them I can't because wrongfully accusing the innocent person could end up badly for me legally and at the least cost me a good employee.
I think I will call them both in to a meeting during which I will simply state that I have uncovered some disturbing discrepacies in our cash receipts versus our cash deposits. Without necessarily accusing them I will basically lay out the situation, showing them the daily cash receipts going back several months and how these match the bank deposits. Then I will show them the receipts for the past 3 months and the corresponding bank deposit slips demonstrating the shortfalls.
I will then tell them that due to these discrepancies I am immediately putting in place new control measures to hopefully eliminate any shortages and if further shortages occur I will know and can take action immediately. As well I am going to be having my accountant do a forensic audit to better determine when and where the funds went missing. (I know this last part is B.S. but for individuals who really know nothing about business and accounting, it might be enough to let them think they're gonna get caught and make them fess up.)
I will end the meeting by simply stating that I am disturbed and very disappointed in this matter and they might want to take some precautions with regards to their personal property given there appears to be a thief in our midst.

How does that sound to you?
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
Maybe someone needs a raise?
The full timer makes $20.50 and hour and the part-timer 17.50 an hour plus benfits (sick leave, health plan, and profit sharing) do a job that really isn't that hard or demanding.
Their next raise would be to the unemployment line because anything more makes it not worth my time to even keep the company open.
 

uncleg

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Jul 25, 2006
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I agree that as much as I'd love to confront them I can't because wrongfully accusing the innocent person could end up badly for me legally and at the least cost me a good employee.
I think I will call them both in to a meeting during which I will simply state that I have uncovered some disturbing discrepacies in our cash receipts versus our cash deposits. Without necessarily accusing them I will basically lay out the situation, showing them the daily cash receipts going back several months and how these match the bank deposits. Then I will show them the receipts for the past 3 months and the corresponding bank deposit slips demonstrating the shortfalls.
I will then tell them that due to these discrepancies I am immediately putting in place new control measures to hopefully eliminate any shortages and if further shortages occur I will know and can take action immediately. As well I am going to be having my accountant do a forensic audit to better determine when and where the funds went missing. (I know this last part is B.S. but for individuals who really know nothing about business and accounting, it might be enough to let them think they're gonna get caught and make them fess up.)
I will end the meeting by simply stating that I am disturbed and very disappointed in this matter and they might want to take some precautions with regards to their personal property given there appears to be a thief in our midst.

How does that sound to you?


So you want to prevent bad feelings, but you're going to tell them, one of you is a thief ?
 

Popoff

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Apr 5, 2011
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I had an employee that was stealing cash from our company. They would not ring in sales and their cash would balance to the penny every day. We set them up by adding extra cash ($100) to the till one day and took away $50 the next and both days his cash balanced. We then new exactly what he was doing and took the appropriate next steps.

You need to isolate each employee so you know where the discrepancies are happening and exactly how much and when what went missing. It is important that before you go accusing someone or anyone of stealing money that you know for sure who it is, when it happened and how much they took. Even sitting down with both of them to let them know someone might be stealing might end up with employee distrust and result in someone quitting or loss of employee productivity. Finding a good employees is really difficult.

I think reviewing it with your accountant and putting in tighter controls is absolutely necessary.
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.


So you want to prevent bad feelings, but you're going to tell them, one of you is a thief ?
I'll put it in a way, explaining things from my point of view, that the person who is not doing it shouldn't be offended because they know their not guilty and I couldn't give a flying fuck if the person who is stealing from me is upset.
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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You need to isolate each employee so you know where the discrepancies are happening and exactly how much and when what went missing. .
That's the problem. There is no cash register or til. Everything is entered on the computer and the cash goes into a drawer. At the end of the day one of them does the day end receipts and puts everything in the safe. Unfortunately they both have access to the safe and work alone for a couple of hours each day while the other is on lunch or out on a delivery. There is ample opportunity for one or the other to go into the safe and take cash out of the bag without any one knowing. Even if tighter controls show cash missing one day there is no way to prove who did it.
Even if the security cameral shows them opening the safe, I can't call them on it because their job entails them going into the safe occasionally to get change or other items we keep there like the ledgers, bank deposit book, cheques, etc. If I saw someone going into the safe several times in a day, which would be abnormal then I could approach them but if they go in one extra time a week there is really no way to know.
To me it seems a logistical nightmare to catch the person red handed. That's why I may have to focus more on stopping it than catching the perpetrator.

But I do want to let them know I know as well.
 

uncleg

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Jul 25, 2006
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I'll put it in a way, explaining things from my point of view, that the person who is not doing it shouldn't be offended because they know their not guilty and I couldn't give a flying fuck if the person who is stealing from me is upset.
.......and if it does turn out to be a math error ?
 

wilde

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Jun 4, 2003
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It sounds to me like your company has inadequate internal controls. You have to isolate the problem and to do that you need to have only one employee in charge of cash each day. That employee will be held responsible for any cash shortages at the end of the day.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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It sounds to me like your company has inadequate internal controls. You have to isolate the problem and to do that you need to have only one employee in charge of cash each day. That employee will be held responsible for any cash shortages at the end of the day.
I don't know if banks still have this practise but in the old days, no one went home until everything added up correctly. I had a GF who was forever staying late because a co-workers balance never added up correctly.

Similar rule will make it not worth their while to steal a little bit here or there.
 

Jethro Bodine

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Feb 17, 2009
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
I don't know if banks still have this practise but in the old days, no one went home until everything added up correctly. I had a GF who was forever staying late because a co-workers balance never added up correctly.
That's the thing. The day end summary is done and recorded as accurate and signed off by the employee doing the day end deposit that day. The problem is that someone is going into the safe another time and taking money out of the deposit bag which as I said in my opening statement will sit in the safe for a couple of weeks because we don't take in alot of cash and I often am too busy running my "real" business to run across town once a day to deposit $28.00.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
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That's the thing. The day end summary is done and recorded as accurate and signed off by the employee doing the day end deposit that day. The problem is that someone is going into the safe another time and taking money out of the deposit bag which as I said in my opening statement will sit in the safe for a couple of weeks because we don't take in alot of cash and I often am too busy running my "real" business to run across town once a day to deposit $28.00.
So 3 people including you, have access to the safe. Assuming you are not stealing from yourself, the rest is not exactly rocket science... And don't assume that only one of your employees is dirty, they could be in collusion with each other. It happens more than you know, especially when the boss is never there!
 
Jun 8, 2012
134
0
16
Downtown, Vancouver
I own 2 businesses.
One is my main profession and the other is a small 2 person supply and distribution company. It is a small operation that I bought from a friend a few years ago. 2 employees and it kind of runs itself. It nets me an extra ~$20 - 25K a year and some tax deductions, with little input from me so I keep it going.
Anyway this weekend I did my regular check of the bookeeping records and found that in the past 3 months over $1200.00 in cash is missing from the weekly deposits. Amounts ranging from $40 to $150.00.
We don't do a lot of cash transactions in this business so normally I drop by every 2nd week to pick up the bank deposit.
One of my employees has been with me for over 5 years and the other part-time for 8 months. The part-timer has recently had her hours increased and does do the day end deposit a few times a week.
My first inclination is to blame the new person as for 5 years I've never had an issue and as soon as the new girl starts doing the daily receipts, money is missing. But I also know that recently my full-timer has been having money issues. She's asked me for a couple of salary advancments and also cashed in a couple of her vacation weeks becasue she needed the money. In the past she has confided in me that her hubby has a VLT habit.
I've gone over the security camera video (one in the front counter area, one in the back office and 2 in the storage area) and have seen nothing suspicious but it is normal for them to handle and count cash as well as go into the safe so unless the video actually showed them putting cash into their pocket there is not much evidence to go on.
I'm torn as to what to do.
On one hand I feel like confronting them individually in a manner which indicates I know and have evidence it is them and see if they confess. Kind of like the cops will lie to trick a confession out of someone. But if I do this I risk insutling the innocent one.
My other option is to sit them both down and tell them one of them is a thief. Maybe the one who is will succumb to the guilt of knowing that I know and so does their coworker. It can't be much fun going to work every day knowing that your co-worker knows you're a thief.
Aside from putting tighter controls on the cash which I can do but won't catch the thief nor get me my money back I can't think of how else to get tot the bottom of this.
The part that pisses me off the most is that I am doing these gals a favor by buying and keeping this company going. Like I said I get a bit of income out of it but at the end of the day I could shut the doors and it would have little impact on my life. Yet this is the thanks I get for keeping these people employed.:mad:

Any of you ever dealt with a similiar situation or have experience with this kind of thing.
Hey Jethro

I had read this article a long time ago. One of my ex employers suspected that someone was stealing money in large amounts and he told me this in confidence, I told him I will research into the matter and let him know what would be the best way of dealing with this situation. My future prospects in life is to do psychological research and I quite enjoy researching anything and everything whether its finding info on a person/ for school work lol

Anyhow this is an article that I found and printed out for my boss ... it has a lot of good options that you can use in this situation. AS well as most of the options keeps you safe legally. My boss was able to reach a conclusion and find out the culprit -he said this article really did help him a lot, so check it out and hopefully you figure out which one of them is stealing from you

http://www.businessmanagementdaily....pect-an-employee-is-stealing-from-the-company

Also I used to work as a pre school teacher when I was 18 and a employee was stealing our salaries from our purses on pay days ( this is in a diff country and most salaries are paid in cash, plastic/checks are not very popular, at least wasn't then)

The principal of the school conducted individual interviews of the suspects, repeated in meetings how the police is now involved(it was a bluff), what do you know? The money shows up the next day in one of the classrooms. One of the teacher's had said that she would be super scared if she had done it and would return the money right away. They finally came to the conclusion that this is the teacher that was stealing from her colleagues. So to deal with the matter correctly they just got her to forcefully resign making up a different but valid excuse, however, was never told what the "real" reason was. Once she left there were no more money going missing. One thing I want to mention the individual interviews were modeled in such a way so that the teacher's felt that they were called in to ask for advice on how to deal with the situation.

Also this is my opinion from a psychological point of view:
Stealing is driven, in large part, by employees' desires to "get even" with companies and managers who treat them in cold and unfair ways. I am not saying that you treat your employees unfairly but that does not mean they do not think so or expect more from you. A lot of the times a person may just be doing for the thrill of it/taking revenge/ thinks the employer is an easy target to steal money from (you are not around lots- giving the person the impression that you are not up to date on things).
I could go on and on about this but I will finish here lol.

I hope you get the bottom of this. Best of Luck to you
 

Tugela

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Oct 26, 2010
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I will end the meeting by simply stating that I am disturbed and very disappointed in this matter and they might want to take some precautions with regards to their personal property given there appears to be a thief in our midst.

How does that sound to you?
I don't think you need to go that far, just say that there appear to be issues with stuff not adding up, and have a group meeting to figure out how to ensure that those sorts of errors don't happen again. Don't accuse anyone, or mention theft. They are going to take it personally for sure, even the one who is not involved. If someone is stealing they will get the message. If they are making some simple mistake, such as not recording things properly, you will be able to figure it out and set it right without confrontation or offending the innocent.
 

mik

Banned
Dec 25, 2004
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But I also know that recently my full-timer has been having money issues. She's asked me for a couple of salary advancements and also cashed in a couple of her vacation weeks because she needed the money. In the past she has confided in me that her hubby has a VLT habit.
Maybe she is the one with the VLT habit - not her husband. If so, she will rob you blind to feed her habit.
 

Jethro Bodine

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2009
4,454
1,853
113
Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
BUSTED!

Last night I drove over to the shop just at closing. There was only the one employee present (the "new" girl) as my other employee had to leave early for a parent-teacher conference. I thought it might be a good opportunity to investigate this more. I went into the office under the premise I needed to make a couple of phone calls to suppliers and counted the cash in the safe. Then this morning I arrived just at opening saying I had forgot my wallet there the night before. I counted the cash in the safe and when I accounted for the $58.00 that should have been added with last night's receipts it was $40.00 short. After taking a few minutes to double check all of my information I asked her to come into the office.
She initially denied it and tried to lay the balme on her co-worker but when faced with the evidence of cash mssing last night when she was the only one here and the threat of calling in the cops, she fessed up. Broke down in tears with a sob story about her phone bill and car payment.
I told her to give me her key and gather up her stuff. She was fired immediately without notice (as is my legal right in MB.) and I told her that she needs to repay me every cent by no later than 5 pm on Friday or I will be calling the cops.
She was very teary eyed and apoligetic but I have no sympathy for a thief.

(PS, Too bad she wasn't better looking. Maybe we could have settled her debt with a few BJ's. ;))
 
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