Does anyone here miss the nhl?

[Dickson]

As a guy who has been in labor disputes before,

When it goes on past its due date, its not about money any more.

Its about control, its about long term and who is in control and who is going to set the direction in which the company is going in.

And from my perspective just a wage earner,
The company always wins. Its there baby there never going to let the average worker dictate to them which direction there company is going to take.
Workers have a say over working conditions and wages, that is it.
not in steering the company.

Even though the players are millionairs there no different then me, just doing a job.

Yea and that is the way it should be. The workers do not have a vested interest in the company they can move on the owners or share holders not so easy to pick up your marbles and leave. I like input from the works but they can not and should not set direction. Like I said they can influence but they cannot set. Once set management needs thier buy in. If they influence it easier to get buy in. Just my two cents. But I know nothing on the situation in the NHL. I leave that to smarter people like Badger my man. You have to be careful trying to cross pollinate business models. Process yes but not complete business models. What works for one industry does not always work for another. I think that is the big mistake people often make buying up companies in different industries. Life is not that simple. But people think it is. Too many elements that need to work together.

Good luck to North America on this one. Go Badger

 

[Boneman]

Why do you think Bettman changed the internal rules for voting within the NHL ? Why do you think the BOG as it's constituted keep giving Bettman 2 to 5 year extensions as commissioner .

This was the NHL 2009 Constitution. A very secretive document. There have been changes to this official document from 2009 until now. Not the most current constitution.

NHL Constitution
NHL Bylaws 1
NHL Bylaws 2

On somethings it's a 75% vote or other's a 2/3 majority 66.6%

During these negotiations. The owners and the BOG keep changing the "Hill they want ti die on" in talks. Every time they reopen discussions. Something else is far more important than the last impasse that hasn't been sorted out.

I'm not sure what your point is but in terms of negotiating the CBA, under the NHL constitution the authority lies with Bettman. If Bettman cuts a deal, it takes 75% of the BOG to veto it. Bettman had the constitution amended after the 94-95 lockout when several wealthy owners broke ranks and a CBA he didn't like was negotiated. He had the constitution amended to consolidate his power to act in the interests of the league as a whole during bargaining with the players, rather than have the process hijacked by a few wealthy owners acting in their own interests.

 

[CJ Tylers]

not on your life. I just wish the media would ignore it completely.

 

[SamGomez]

This picture pissed off alot of fans & NHLPA. Guess the players dont need the lockout to end.

People on Twitter reacted on Wednesday to a photograph that Winnipeg Jets forward Evander Kane posted of himself clutching wads of dollar bills in Las Vegas.

Check out the picture in question and a sampling of the fallout:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/12/19/mb-evander-kane-cash-photo-twitter-storify.html?cmp=rss

 

[Boneman]

Different business models work for different businesses. I know nothing of the entertainment business so I can not comment. Badger lives that life so I respecthis insight. I learned a long time ago to respect people who live it.

I think you're missing my point. The NHL owners decided the business model didn't work. Hence the lockout. Do you understand that?

 

[Cock Throppled]

Don't miss the NHL, but I, along with everyone else will watch it when it comes back.

Of all those who say they are through with the NHL maybe 5% might give it up. Look at the growth of revenues. The NHL knows that money will come back. The only way it doesn't is if a rival league is formed a la the WHA, and that ain't gonna happen.

The ill will will be forgotten as soon as games start to count.

As for the vested interests of owners vs players - the players risk their careers every time the go on the ice. The owners have an endless supply of livestock. If you know anything about the history of the NHL the owners have been ruthless, evil, greedy, vile - you name it, towards the players. They have ruined careers and cheated and lied to players and left them in poverty and despair in the past.

I don't begrudge the players anything they can squeeze out of the owners.

 

[badbadboy]

I think you're missing my point. The NHL owners decided the business model didn't work. Hence the lockout. Do you understand that?

Ok I am getting the point Boneman that you are clearly on the side of the Owners. Not sure why because they are not providing the entertainment and are merely wealthy enough or have an enough influence to have an NHL franchise and a building for the team to play in.

FYI - McCartney played at BC Place recently and let's roughly guess that there were 40 - 45 K people in attendance. Sir Paul and his team took 90% of the gate and BC Place got 10%. Seems reasonable to me because all BC Place Stadium did was have a large building that otherwise would have been empty if the concert had not occurred.

The players and owners can not decide over a 53 vs 47 % split or whatever the number is now. Seems crazy to me that nearly 100 days have gone on in this lockout and they can not get a deal done. Cory Schneider did mention in an interview that they 'were close' then the owners moved the goal posts again asking for more revenue. That IMHO is not bargaining in good faith. This season is done and I think that is the motive of the owners now. Starve the players out and see if they can get a better deal done for next season.

BTW the reason the business model does not work is NOT the player's fault. It's Bettman's fault when he decided to set up teams in Florida, Carolina, Phoenix etc which are non traditional hockey markets. The Coyotes went deeper in the playoffs than in the past yet still had trouble selling out their building. All the other teams have to subsidize these losing propositions and that is what is wrong with the business model. Put teams in Quebec City, Hamilton, Saskatoon etc and you will have full buildings all the time.

 

[Boneman]

Don't miss the NHL, but I, along with everyone else will watch it when it comes back.

Of all those who say they are through with the NHL maybe 5% might give it up. Look at the growth of revenues. The NHL knows that money will come back. The only way it doesn't is if a rival league is formed a la the WHA, and that ain't gonna happen.

The ill will will be forgotten as soon as games start to count.

As for the vested interests of owners vs players - the players risk their careers every time the go on the ice. The owners have an endless supply of livestock. If you know anything about the history of the NHL the owners have been ruthless, evil, greedy, vile - you name it, towards the players. They have ruined careers and cheated and lied to players and left them in poverty and despair in the past.

I don't begrudge the players anything they can squeeze out of the owners.

True. Just like any industrialist they have put their profit ahead of that of their employees. That is just business. How do we split the pie? Thats why the players have a union. I don't begrudge the players anything either. As far as employees go though, they are treated far better than most. And definitely better than any livestock in any country.

How many cows on their way to the slaughterhouse make 7 figures for less than a years work?

 

[Boneman]

Ok I am getting the point Boneman that you are clearly on the side of the Owners. Not sure why because they are not providing the entertainment and are merely wealthy enough or have an enough influence to have an NHL franchise and a building for the team to play in.

FYI - McCartney played at BC Place recently and let's roughly guess that there were 40 - 45 K people in attendance. Sir Paul and his team took 90% of the gate and BC Place got 10%. Seems reasonable to me because all BC Place Stadium did was have a large building that otherwise would have been empty if the concert had not occurred.

The players and owners can not decide over a 53 vs 47 % split or whatever the number is now. Seems crazy to me that nearly 100 days have gone on in this lockout and they can not get a deal done. Cory Schneider did mention in an interview that they 'were close' then the owners moved the goal posts again asking for more revenue. That IMHO is not bargaining in good faith. This season is done and I think that is the motive of the owners now. Starve the players out and see if they can get a better deal done for next season.

BTW the reason the business model does not work is NOT the player's fault. It's Bettman's fault when he decided to set up teams in Florida, Carolina, Phoenix etc which are non traditional hockey markets. The Coyotes went deeper in the playoffs than in the past yet still had trouble selling out their building. All the other teams have to subsidize these losing propositions and that is what is wrong with the business model. Put teams in Quebec City, Hamilton, Saskatoon etc and you will have full buildings all the time.

What does fault have to do with it? The NHL business model is what it is. As I have said before, quoting Kevin O'Leary, the players are cottage cheese. They have a limited shelf life. You are right. The NHL will starve the millionaires out. Because they have more money and unlike the players, have made their money in businesses other than hockey. The players need hockey to make money. Most, if not all, of the owners don't. Save your sympathy for the busting of unions where the members are, in the words of most NDP politicians, "average Canadians." Not a bunch of spoiled brats.

There was an article in the Globe and Mail the other day about an NHL player who was playing in Finland and was whining he had to take bus rides and, oh my god, had to eat at truck stops. In the meantime, this hero of the working class is taking a job from someone who would have been happy to have it without a sense of entitlement

 

[Boneman]

Strange. Boneman, but it's always that way either you disagree with what someone has said or you state you don't understand exactly what they are talking about. Then You seem to say one thing in the opposite direction then agree with what someone else says. By taking what they say then reworking them into your own words so that it seems like an epiphany of sorts on your point.

Huh? That's a little bit hard to follow. Perhaps you could put that into something other than broken English

 

[badbadboy]

I think you're missing my point. The NHL owners decided the business model didn't work. Hence the lockout. Do you understand that?

What does fault have to do with it? The NHL business model is what it is. As I have said before, quoting Kevin O'Leary, the players are cottage cheese. They have a limited shelf life. You are right. The NHL will starve the millionaires out. Because they have more money and unlike the players, have made their money in businesses other than hockey. The players need hockey to make money. Most, if not all, of the owners don't. Save your sympathy for the busting of unions where the members are, in the words of most NDP politicians, "average Canadians." Not a bunch of spoiled brats.

There was an article in the Globe and Mail the other day about an NHL player who was playing in Finland and was whining he had to take bus rides and, oh my god, had to eat at truck stops. In the meantime, this hero of the working class is taking a job from someone who would have been happy to have it without a sense of entitlement

So in one hand the business model didn't work and in the other it is what it is.

You have a very interesting way of debating a point BM. You are of a mixed mind within three different posts. When you want to address my argument with a clear head I will respond in kind.

 

[Boneman]

So in one hand the business model didn't work and in the other it is what it is.

You have a very interesting way of debating a point BM. You are of a mixed mind within three different posts. When you want to address my argument with a clear head I will respond in kind.

Is it really that hard to understand? The current business model doesn't work for the owners. Hence the lockout. When have I said anything different?

 

[Boneman]

Exactly my point triple B. Boneman you would be a phenomenal politician. You say a lot you rework the comments that people before you have said whether they support your reasoning and thought processes or not. So basically you say a lot but on reference and reading through it you've said nothing.

Bravo that is a true art form of either a constitutional lawyer or a back bench politican.

I truly do enjoy reading your comments that you make because nine times out of ten you completely agree with any original poster in your own words but using a contrary opinion at the beginning of the arguement.

Like white beard or merangue tasty at first but then lacking real substance.

I'm battling the flu right now and typing on my blackberry. Before I go back to sleep. So sorry if you can't follow my comments. Lol

I have to admit Badge, it's the substance to your posts that keep me coming back. You are one intelligent poster. Hope you find Susan soon.

 

[Dickson]

I think you're missing my point. The NHL owners decided the business model didn't work. Hence the lockout. Do you understand that?

Once again I do not understand the situation over there but they have invested hundreds of millions into it and the still believe in the model however they do not like the labour relation element and are changing that.

I might have a good mode but my costing is out of wack. So I change it but it does not mean the model is wrong. I buy and sell business all the time. Sometimes I win and sometimes I loose. It is not uncommon to see a good business but just have a few element that are the problem. So change them and wow you got a good business. If not break it apart and sell off the assets. If it is really a bad model don't get involved. Let me put ot this way don't throw out the baby with the bath water I think the owners might be just changing the bath water or at least changing the tempature. They pay the money so they get to change the rules. Just my thoughts for what it is worth. Not much I take it.

On the details I defer to our good friend Badger. He has my convidence. He knows this better than anyone else. I would not disagree with him. I would learn from him.

 

[badbadboy]

Ok all the so called experts out there here is one for the people supporting the owners.

How many of the owners are so called Self Made Billionaires and not building upon old time family money?

If you follow the money I think you may be surprised that even Original Six teams owners have actually inherited the team from their family trusts. Aquilini’s money is old time family money and he is not a self made billionaire.

I ask this question because of this name calling bullshit with the players being "spoiled brats etc". I think you will find a lot of these owners were born with silver spoons in their mouths.

Oh yah and BM It does matter if Bettman screwed up on the business model because that is why they are having to squeeze more $ out of the players to help subsidize lame ass teams in the Southern USA that can not support themselves financially.

 

[blazejowski]

Ok all the so called experts out there here is one for the people supporting the owners.

How many of the owners are so called Self Made Billionaires and not building upon old time family money?

If you follow the money I think you may be surprised that even Original Six teams owners have actually inherited the team from their family trusts. Aquilini’s money is old time family money and he is not a self made billionaire..

Mike Ilitch is self-made. (Owner of the Red Wings)
He started off selling pizza slices in bars, made enough to start his own pizza place - aka Little Caesar's - was successful, opened a second location, and the rest is history. He was able to buy the Wings when no one else would touch them with a 20 foot pole, and slowly turned them into one of the greatest NHL teams of the last 20 years. If not *THE* greatest team.

 

[badbadboy]

Mike Ilitch is self-made. (Owner of the Red Wings)
He started off selling pizza slices in bars, made enough to start his own pizza place - aka Little Caesar's - was successful, opened a second location, and the rest is history. He was able to buy the Wings when no one else would touch them with a 20 foot pole, and slowly turned them into one of the greatest NHL teams of the last 20 years. If not *THE* greatest team.

I have a day job and need to get some stuff done before I shut down for the Holiday. Suffice it to say there are more "old family" money types than Ilitch. Wirtz family has owned the Hawks for fifty years, Jacobs family has owned the Bruins for over thirty years etc etc. These are very well heeled families with enormous wealth and are politically tied to Washington DC in several ways.

 

[blazejowski]

I have a day job and need to get some stuff done before I shut down for the Holiday. Suffice it to say there are more "old family" money types than Ilitch. Wirtz family has owned the Hawks for fifty years, Jacobs family has owned the Bruins for over thirty years etc etc. These are very well heeled families with enormous wealth and are politically tied to Washington DC in several ways.

Not arguing your point in the least - there are definitely more old-money type owners in the NHL, I was just pointing out an exception.
Plus, I am a massive Wings fan, so...

 

[badbadboy]

Not arguing your point in the least - there are definitely more old-money type owners in the NHL, I was just pointing out an exception.
Plus, I am a massive Wings fan, so...

Top to bottom the Wings organization are the best run in the NHL. Period.

 

[blazejowski]

Top to bottom the Wings organization are the best run in the NHL. Period.

You sir, are my new Best Friend!
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