Do you think life is pre destind

[Quarter Mile'r]

There is no concrete answer to this question. Only opinions, and of which everything I penned in this thread is a part and parcel.

Pre determined lives huh?

The only thing I see predetermined in our lives is the genetic makeup
we carry and that's it.

Everything else is the sum of what we choose or do not choose,
good, bad or indifferent.

And uh..........that's just my opinion.


..............QM'r

 

[Sonny]

"The only instinct a human has at birth is to suck. All else is learned behaviors, so now let's get to understanding just what these behaviors are, and how to determine their pathology."

Not according to Eastern religion. The winds of karma, that is, one's collection of habitual patterns and fixed perceptions, drive one to birth in this realm, in repeated cyclic relative existence. These inherent patterns will rise again within the environment of one's developing life, spiced with what conditions and opportunities one's new life brings. One's struggle for freedom from compulsive conditioned behaviour can lead to a different life next time around.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Pre-determined lives? I don't know about that, but i definitely don't believe in free-will.
I think humans have an exaggerated view of our species. We have brains, not minds.
We make choices, but not with a 'free-will'. We make decisions based on what we believe will be good for us. Sometimes we decide with the little head and sometimes...

Now that's an interesting statement. You're quite right about human beings not really having a free will, in the sense that not only do we make decisions about what we believe will be good for us, but that humans have an extremely limited ability to understand anything outside their own subjective framework of how they see the world - hence making a "free will" decision is also limited. So you're right, we have brains but not really minds. The brain only perceives what is within the limit of its imagination, which is constrained by the framework of how we model our own worlds. A mind can break free of it.

Even though I think i my see a glimpse of a possible future.. It is usually . just that i am in a location that i have never seen .. or working on a project . that i could not imagine doing ... In that respect the dream may just be influencing the chooses i make that lead me to the situation

I have a theory about this. It follows from the works of the likes of Dr. Karl Jung (psychologist) and Jiddu Krishnamurti (theosophist). Human beings are not actually physical creatures per se, but spiritual ones. We "live" in both the physical world (with our bodies) and the spiritual world (with our souls) at the same time. There is consciousness in the physical world and another consciousness in the spiritual one. Our dreams can be the portal into the spiritual world. When we dream, sometimes it is our subconscious that is doing the experiencing, but this subconscious is actually the conscience in the spritual world. Most humans are completely out of touch with their subconscious, and hence out of touch with the consciousness in the spiritual world. Some try to get in touch with it via astrology, "intuition", "listening to the heart" and other means, but often it is just the consciousness in the physical world (ie: the brain) fooling ourselves. J.Krishnamurti talks of who is the true observer, that is, what is really being sensed - the reality or is it just our brains?

In the spiritual world, there is no dimension and no time. What you are experiencing in deja vu and in your dreams could very likely be the spiritual world. Hence you feel as you've been somewhere before, or you believe the stranger you just met was someone from long ago or "another life". Karl Jung talks about "synchronicity" - the coincidental happenstance events that bring irony to our physical lives.

Our consciousness blinds us, it keeps us from seeing reality, and it scrambles our minds with a thousand half coherent thoughts at a time. Thus, in the length of our lives, we may only experience a handful of pure thoughts. Yet a greater many of us will live out our lives without even having had one pure thought. In my life, I recall only perhaps 2 or 3 pure thoughts.

I believe that the spiritual world is where reality truly exists, and that the physical world can be brought to manifest it. One of the pure thoughts I had one day was when I walked downtown in the middle of an unusually sunny afternoon. Although the streets were crowded, I had gone into what I might call a trance (for lack of better word). I stopped and looked skyward though people walked right by. I noticed the clarity of the sky, and the nebulous white of the cloud but gazed beyond the blue. It was at this moment I had a pure thought: I wanted to meet a beautiful young blond girl, and I pictured her face. It was someone I had never seen before. I remembered that face clearly. The thought was pure. It lacked any reservation or other thoughts whatsoever. It forgot who I was at that moment of thought. All my energies dissipated into that one pure thought, nothing else. It was spontaneous, unforced, and completely unencumbered by my consciousness. I believe pure thoughts can also be a pure desire. If you can truly want something with every part of you but without you, it will come true.

Less than 2 weeks later I looked for a seat in the university cafeteria. All the tables were taken and I jostled for the one free chair in my immediate vicinity. I plunked down my tray of food onto the table and sat in the chair. When I lifted my eyes from the table, there she was sitting directly in front of me. It was exactly the face I saw in my thoughts. We fell immediately in awe of each other, and immediately in love the first night we dated only a few days later. The passion burned very strong and it was all consuming. When it ended 9 months later, we both had passed through a stage in our lives and we were thereafter scarred from it. For the next 10 years I looked for this girl in every woman I saw.

If you are experiencing life through dreams, I would suggest you begin to meditate on increasing your ability to do so and be aware that your subconscious is the true reality. But please be careful in manifesting it into the physical world. For most, it will devour us, and bring us to emotional bankruptcy and ruination.

 

[LonelyGhost]

I audited some Psych classes because the vaunted Dennis Krebs was lecturing. His first statement to the auditorium was, and excuse my paraphrase.

"The only instinct a human has at birth is to suck. All else is learned behaviors, so now let's get to understanding just what these behaviors are, and how to determine their pathology."​

So if the behaviors are all learned and nothing is determined but our genetic structure, then the genetic profile has its own genetic predestination, correct?

well, he's wrong: psychology has already shown that we have other
reflexes like the 'grab' (lift a baby a 1/4 inch off a soft surface and let them
drop and they 'reflexively' grab!) ...

babies also graviate towards faces ... particularly female faces ...
they also graviate towards voices ...

they also can swim from birth (hence the popularity of birthing pools)

Further, psychological studies have also shown from birth that some
babies/toddlers are inherently 'shy' and NOTHING will change it! no
training, no drugs, or drugs and therapy will change that inate trait!

it also turns out that people who are born 'shy' are also the most
likely to become alcoholics or have other 'addictions' ...

kids born to older women are also more likely to have 'Downs'
and those conceived by older men to have 'Autism' ... while
not 'instincts' they are genetic pre-determinants to some
extent ...

But the bottom line is no matter WHAT you are born with
or without, it is still YOUR decision what you do or don't do!

But then consider the stat that "90% of people
born to wealth, die with the same or more wealth, and 90%
of people born poor will die poor."

So much for the great American dream!

So, nature or nuture? the debate continues ...

 

[mick_eight]

P 101 has baby on table with glass ex tended over edge, proving babies fear falling.

 

[LonelyGhost]

Did you even read the entire postings after that? If you did, you would have seen that I said he had not said that for "rightness" but did in fact, say it to open our minds to disagreement with the higher teachers. His statement was ludicrous coming from such a vaunted mind. His method of teaching was phenomenal. A critical thinking analysis of the first order.

yes ... and i stated he was wrong and provided examples showing
proof that statement was wrong.

and while you are lauding his vaunted mind the rest of us can only
go on the putative 'facts' you posted, to which we have replied.

we were not privy to his entire lecture, nor the reason for it,
nor the essential point he was trying to make except as presented
by you.

And if you are 'new' to the concept of questioning accepted ideas
and putative expertise, then god help us all!

 

[maxx50]

Which came first the spiritual or the physical

I have to say. In throwing out the question of Predestine.. I did not fully take in to consideration my own spiritual beliefs.. or the realm in which we live ..
What existed first the the spirit .. or the physical universe.. ? Was the big bang ... or the multiple big bang .. that has continuously created and recreated the natural universe that surrounds us ,an expiration. of the spiritual world.. the universal ID.. That which we are all part of. thus being the creators of our own reality . Or Are we only part of nature itself? Governed by .. the laws of nature .. and what has been set in motion from the beginning of time and space.
i was going to say that there are inanimate parts of nature . such as the stuff that makes up the planet , and then there is the living part of nature .. which is a live .. and multiplies and has a life force ..But then we are all made of the same stuff .. Atom..or if you follow the string theriory. the stuff of atoms.and that in it self .. gives everything a vibration .of life . the atoms of all things , be it a grain of sand or the wort on my ass .. makes it a live in an equal manner.
Now being alive does not always give it free will or predestined to travel a path that is ordained from the beginning ..
On one side we see the creation of a sun . that from that moment .. it has a set path.. which does not alter.. although the sun will go through many changes these are set by its make up.. Also with the planets that circle around the sun .. they are set on a course .. and the asteroid that collided into them . and the cosmic rays that bombard them have predicted by the laws of nature. and wee set on their course from the beginning .of creation.. There are no thoughts with in these objects .. or dream and ambition.. they exist.
But then we come to life .. the living creature of the universe .. those that do have thoughts .. and dreams .. and make chooses every minute of their existence .. And then again there is a physical body that seems to function on a self automated level .. the heart pumps . the blood flows . and the the internal organs process the notion that we eat . and keep us a live.And all though we may chose to do things to our bodies .. or even end our life .. there are still many aspects of each one of use that is predetermined. . notably .. wheath we have physical .. defect that . will cause use to die at a given time. or under certain circumstances.
Here is the point I am trying to get to .. There are 6 billion people on this . planet .. and a million times that in other living creatures .. many with free will .. and expectations.. and the ability to create what they can imagine.
And that is what boggle the mind .. and the concept of predestine.. Who is influencing who .. and determining .. our path.. because definitely our lives are controlled in many degrees by others . and there action.. and creation from the past. for use to determine what our future will be or even to have an open door is almost impossible .. unless we have the ability to make new creations. to fulfill our own dream . But then again our reality will effect others reality. Then throw in our spiritual self .. and do we live in the world that is created from a spiritual realm.. I think one could go mad .. if they really understood.
Sorry for some of the spelling mistakes .. and grammatical errors .. I can't claim predestine in those cases .. but it was most likely inevitable

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

I audited some Psych classes because the vaunted Dennis Krebs was lecturing. His first statement to the auditorium was, and excuse my paraphrase.

"The only instinct a human has at birth is to suck. All else is learned behaviors, so now let's get to understanding just what these behaviors are, and how to determine their pathology."​

So if the behaviors are all learned and nothing is determined but our genetic structure, then the genetic profile has its own genetic predestination, correct?

So our genes control a great portion of our behaviors, desires, health, and since the birth of genetic evolution, they are an amalgamation of genetics with environment. Since they bring to you, irregardless of degree, certain traits, a certain personality, and perspective to the world. Would it be safe to say this?

Then genes would commit to a portion of the determination you make, the type of people you want to associate with, and conversely the type of people with which you would less association. I am not speaking to degree of this "genetic choice", just that it is there as well as environmentally. If you agree to my prior questions, then this must logically follow. Correct? This would then follow to all your personal choices. Correct?

Thus we are back to the age old theological discussion. One side says that you were created in the image that shows a predetermined path of being. The other side says that this path is not at all predetermined and of course there is no answer to either.

I say, (and I say this as an opinion based upon the predicated statements I have made and asked of your response) that man is greater than the sum of these parts. Just as all powers have their opposite, so does non-determination and pre-determination. There is a yin-yang here in my estimation, and yes, we have that choice. That choice is determined from our own will. However, it has been my personal experience that the roads are there, put in place for us. to make our choice at the time of choosing.

My wife told me long ago that I only thought I chose her, and that in point of fact, I had less to say about the matter than I had thought.

I think that this follows also in the path of predestination and predetermination.

And I will not even get into pre-determination and the sub-conscious with relation to "Free Will".

I was speaking solely from the perspective of an adults perception of
what I had said.
You add into the mix of what is genetically predetermined and the ability
to choose from an infants point of view.

Two totallly different things for sure.


.............QM'r

 

[metoo113]

No, you open the mix up with the bolded "everything else" QuarterMiler. So if you open it up, you can not then complain that the discussion had been expanded. The expansion was due to 'your' expanding it. I merely responded to your expansion with options.

I thought you left. Did you run out of quarters for the vibrating bed.

 

[metoo113]

You posted in the thread that this quote came from. Did you not read the entire posting? If you did, then I wonder what you thought or indeed if you did at all?

I post a bit of a funny and all you can do is insult. I even put a smiley face after it to show humor as per your instructions.

 

[LaCreme]

I post a bit of a funny and all you can do is insult. Do you really have that big of a chip on your shoulder.

i dont think Ropey frist goal in here is to post insult.. nah is deaper then that..
maybe if you do like many of us to read each singel post YOU might understand why he said that to you. in am 100% SURE IS RIGHT

 

[maxx50]

is it genetic or predestined ..

That some people always have to bicker over and over about others opinions.. and think that they are not being heard correctly.. I am having a case of deja vu .. i have heard this all be for on some other thread over some other disagreement of weather some one has understood the other correctly. Lets see that does fit in to this conversation on predestination.. on one hand we have some one trying to use free will to determine there own opinion and express it .. and then there is the omnipotent being that has determined that it is going to be there way .
Falls in nicely with my last comment .. thanks for the example.

 

[LaCreme]

i when outside.. i had a walk.. then i did stopped for fews minutes to observe the sky then miss, and dude.. i saw my futur in the cloud up in the sky!

my desitny is to be me Princess LaCreme

 

[LaCreme]

No, not insult. I did not see your post as insult, and my post was not an insult. My post was both informative and questioning. I questioned if you actually read entire threads and informed you of what you would have seen had you read entire threads. If you had read the post then you would have seen that "I thought you had left" made no sense funny or not. The vibrating bed was funny but the I thought you had left made no sense due to my previous post. Since the vibrating bed was predicated upon the "I thought you had left" comment, the entire statement made no sense.

And metoo, no sense makes nonsense.

I am sure that if you wish to be funny, you can make something funny and not nonsense. This is what I meant by my post. If you read an entire post then you will not end up making nonsense posts, funny or not. There's lots about me to laugh at so have a go

it is like a rainbow ROpey it is many colors out there and many opinions as well

 

[maxx50]

Predestined to die

I guess that was inevitable that . if it ain't about sex .. there is very little interest.. Genetics wins out again.

 

[rescue911]

yes indeed

i know my life is predestined because i was intended to come to this board to:

- find out more about a hobby i was interested in for some time...deja wanted to
- i was destined to see a post by tianna and then investigate her site...deja lovely
- i was predestined to experience hell on earth...deja deserved..this hobby damned me...lol...
- hell on earth is to always be in a city opposite to the one tianna is visiting at any given time..deja fuckin frustrated...
- but,..the silver lining..deja good for me..i was destined to meet all of the other lovely ladies on here who have spent time with me..deja heavenly...

 

[yummy_loni]

I believe........

That everything happens for a reason, if its hardship, or trial and error. Wisdom is only achieved through experiencing life either good or not. Thats my opionion , choices that we make (in my opionion) are predetermined. Deja vu's is a map in your mind telling you that life is going just as plan. Wow that was deep.

 

[maxx50]

The sign posts.

Yes That is how I look at my deja vu experience .. as a marker that says .. I am on the road that i am meant to travel.. that thought is not always comforting .. but . it does make me contemplate who is in charge . or what grand plan i play a part in .... I may just be a bug on the windshield

 

[yummy_loni]

Maybe.....

a bug... but has a place & meaning on this world, everyone & everything has a purpose here on earth.

 

[yummy_loni]

I feel like.........

a cow sometimes, does not mean I am not human though. Life is short, don't worry have fun.