Current Israeli/Lebanese conflict

[sdw]

We use all types of reasons not to get involved with this situation between Isarel and Lebanon . However, we/ the rest of the world must try to think of way to hopefully bring premanent peace to the middle east .

The only solution is to kill all of the people who don't belong to the "right" faction.

Pick the survivor:
1. Israel and all other Jews
2. Shite Muslims who are Arab
3. Shite Muslims who are Persian
4. Sunni Muslims who are Arab
5. Sunni Muslims who are Persian
6. Christian Arabs
7. Christian Persians
8. Kurdish Muslims
9. Kurdish Christians
10. Druze
11. Egyptian Shite Muslims
12. Egyptian Sunni Muslims
13. Egyptian Christians

There can be only one.

 

[sdw]

Israeli jets deliberately targeted a refugee center in Quna. Of the several hundred taking refuge, 27 bodies of children and 8 bodies of adults have been recovered. Since the refugees were in the basement, it will take heavy equipment to get to the remaining bodies.

The Israeli spokesperson Jacob Dalal said that Israel had leafleted the town of Quna, telling the civilians that they were in a war zone. The IDF had targeted the building because it was a Hezbollah asset.

Lebanon has now cancelled any discussion of cease fires with Secretary Rice. The president pointed out that the civilians were trapped in Quna because Israel was bombarding the roads and it had been unsafe to try to move the refugees out.

The president of Lebanon pointed out that all vehicles that had been trying to evacuate civilians had been subject to Israeli artillary and air attacks.

 

[mikeoman]

I can see this whole thing spiralling out of control soon if it doesn't get stopped soon. Maybe not WW3, but a regional war that many mid-east countries get drawn into. However, I can't see a reasonable alternative or any way to avoid it. Israel seems intent on routing out Hezbollah. Lebanese civilians will continue to get killed. And some Israelis too. Iran and Syria will continue to supply arms and give moral support to Hezbollah.

The Middle East has been a dangerous and fucked up place for a long time (centuries .. millenia even) and I don't see it getting better any time soon.

 

[rickoshadows]

Western Europe fought war after war with each other until WWII caused so much damage to the civilian populations that everyone realized that it was a no win situtation and that the civilians suffered more than the soldiers. When the middle eastern populations start to realize that turning a blind eye to the fanatics in your midst is more likely to get you dead than dealing with them, then things will change. Hezbollah is hiding among the Lebanese populations in order to draw fire and cause civilian casualties hoping the outcry will force Israel to stop. Only this time, Israel, the US, Canada and a few other countries aren't playing that game. Maybe a few thousand civilain deaths is the price to be payed for some serious changes of attitude, then again maybe not. Perhaps another demonstration of Darwin's theories in action.

 

[sdw]

Remember the 48 hour Air Strike ceasefire?

Less than 24 hours into the 48 hours that Israel had agreed to suspend Air Strikes, Israel "regrets" using air strikes to destroy a convoy of relief vehicles organized by the Lebanese Army. Israel claims that the vehicles that were escorted by elements of the Lebanese Army and displaying white flags was mistaken as enemy elements. 4 deaths of Lebanese Army personnal and a unknown amount of civilians.

 

[westwoody]

Yikes!

please explain to me gbm when the lebanese govt. invades isreal, kills 6 soldiers kidnaps 2, isreal becomes the aggressor,

Is the difference between Hezbollah and the country of Lebanon so difficult to understand?

 

[westwoody]

Why did the UN not evacuate the post when a war is going on just outside?

The whole point of the observer mission is to OBSERVE and you won't be observing anything if you run away.
The Israelis obviously don't like any third-party observers around when they are have something they don't want the outside world to see.

 

[dirtydan]

The whole point of the observer mission is to OBSERVE and you won't be observing anything if you run away.
The Israelis obviously don't like any third-party observers around when they are have something they don't want the outside world to see.

This was not the first the IDF deliberately attacked a UN post. I do believe in the mid 80's the IDF shelled a UN post that took in several dozen Lebanese refugees. The IDF claimed there were terrorists among the refugees. And it has been mentioned in this thread, the Israelis will also bite the hand that feeds them, as witnessed by the attack on the USN spyship USS Liberty.

 

[westwoody]

The Israeli spokesperson Jacob Dalal said that Israel had leafleted the town of Quna, telling the civilians that they were in a war zone.

Sample leaflet:"Hi, we're going to be bombing you soon."
How exactly is this a mitigating factor? If they get into cars and buses and leave, they'll still be bombed.

all vehicles that had been trying to evacuate civilians had been subject to Israeli artillary and air attacks.

 

[dirtydan]

You mean like in 1948 when they were attacked immediately upon becoming a nation, or maybe you mean 1967 when they were attacked by 4 neighbouring countries at the same time, or maybe at the Munich Games in 72? Or every month since when suicide bombers, rockets are launched at them?

Indeed at its birth as a country Israel was attacked by a number of Arab countries. The poor communication and coordination between those Arab armies played a huge, huge role in the fledging country in achieving its first military victory.

As for 1967, sorry man, it was the Israelis that struck the first blow. All sides in the 6 Day War were primed and ready to unleashed their military power. The IDF struck first as the Israeli government could not find a willing ally to fight on its side. Remember in 1956 the Israelis were allied with the British and the French. The thinking was the IDF likely could not take on Egpyt, Jordan and Syria all at once. The sneak attack airstrikes tipped the scales in Israel's favour by having near total control of the skies.

What would you do? You are surrounded by countries trying to destroy you, they have attacked you several times, they are only hours away from your major cities......If you can you are going to create a buffer zone.

Israel tried that Lebanon before and failed. During the early part of the Lebanese Civil War the Israelis had Major Haddad and his paramilitary/terrorist group to control southern Lebanon. In 1982 after the IDF invaded Lebanon for the second time, the first was in 1978, they occupied a fair portion of southern Lebanon and in the end that became Israel's Vietnam. Here they are again seemingly trying the same failed strategy again.

What you missed all the news in the last 30 years? Don't think for a minute this all started on July 12.

30? Try further back than that. But does that really matter? The fighting has gone on for also fucking long that it doesn't matter who fired the first shot. More over it also doesn't matter if Israel is defending itself, the bottom line the IDF is committing atrocities that are really not different that what Hezbollah is doing. Added to that there are still a good number of Israelis who can remember it was the Jews who were the terrorists fighting against the Arabs and the British.

Do you know anything about airpower? Israel likely has the 2nd best Air Force in the world, worldclass technology and firepower and is killing far less civilians than almost any other example of the use of airpower in world history. If they wanted to there would a hell of lot more casualties.

I'd say because of its combat experience the Israeli air force is likely the best in the world. Although it may not have all of the high tech goodies as the USAF, I'd rank the Israelis ahead of them because of combat experience. And let's keep in mind the horrors the IDF is inflicting on the Lebanese, yah casualties could be a hell of a lot higher, but they are nevertheless severals times more than what Hezbollah has inflicted on the Israelis. One would think with all that experience and high tech stuff, finding rocket launchers in southern Lebanon would be relatively easy. But the IDF is hellbent on flying past those rocket launchers are bombing the snot out of Beruit and other cities. If Israel limited its airstrikes to the rocket launchers then maybe this war could be brought to an end.

 

[thehaggler]

Imagine if Hezbolla or any other arab organizations or countrys or whatrver had nuclear weapons. how long do you think it would take for isreal to be blasted off the map. isreal on the other hand has had nuclear bombs for years. draw your own conclusion.

 

[dirtydan]

Or, Sadat was planning war (in 1973) to restore Arab pride and honor and kicked out the Soviets becuase he knew they would not be happy. Talked to the Americans but knew that process would not bear fruit until after the war.

I not condoning Sadat's actions for the Yom Kippur War, but the War of Attrition had essentially been a stalemate. The artillery exchanges and cross canal raids by both sides ended up cancelling out each other. So wanting a bargaining chip in which to use at the peace table, Egpyt planned another war against Israel with Syria and later Jordan and Iraq as allies. The original Egyptian was just to grab the eastern side of the canal and hold it, thereby its army still covered by a vast array of surface to air missiles located on the western side. However the Syrians failed to take the Golan Heights, although they came very close to breaking through, and to relieve the pressure on them the Egyptians advanced into the Sinai. In the end they got out flanked when the IDF crossed the canal to the western side. Nevertheless Sadat still held a good chunk of the eastern side and inflicted a heavy toll on the IDF, especially in personnel. Six years later there was the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty.

 

[westwoody]

I'd say because of its combat experience the Israeli air force is likely the best in the world.

What combat experience? Have they fought any air-to-air engagements lately? All they are doing is dropping PGMs and Hezbollah doesn't have any interceptors.

 

[The Lizard King]

how long do you think it would take for isreal to be blasted off the map

Not soon enough....

 

[Tyrone785]

I think one of the reasons why USA and Britain back Israel is simply because the amount of rich jew's that have enormous power in those nations. Even in Canada somewhat. They control the media for the most part. I think Ted Turner was the last non jew that has controlled a large media corporation. He merged with Time Warner and was fired as a CEO even though he maintained a large portion of the stock.

I'm not an anti semitic person though.. In fact I wish I was jewish because I probably would have been born into a more prosperous family.

 

[Rain Man]

The whole point of the observer mission is to OBSERVE and you won't be observing anything if you run away.

However, if you are OBSERVING the cessastion of hostilities and a WAR breaks out maybe there is nothing left to observe.

 

[Rain Man]

I'm not an anti semitic person though.. In fact I wish I was jewish because I probably would have been born into a more prosperous family.

Sure.....maybe I wish I was black so I would have a bigger unit. Your comments, if not anti semite certainly sound like the same comments that the Nazi Party used

 

[Rain Man]

As for 1967, sorry man, it was the Israelis that struck the first blow........

I think I covered this already

1967 Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, or June War, was fought between Israel and the nearby Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. It began when Israel launched a preemptive attack against Egypt following the latter's blockade of Israeli shipping in the Straits of Tiran, removal of UNEF peacekeeping forces from the Sinai, and deployment of military forces in the Sinai on the Israeli border. Jordan in turn attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya. At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.

So you call Eygpt blockading Israel, occuping the Sinai in violation of UN agreements and massing of troops on the Isreali border as Israeli aggression? How exactly was Eygpt napping when they had all their troops lined up on the border ready to attack?

 

[Rain Man]

...... One would think with all that experience and high tech stuff, finding rocket launchers in southern Lebanon would be relatively easy.

Right next to UN posts, schools, apartment buildings

 

[Rain Man]

More over it also doesn't matter if Israel is defending itself, the bottom line the IDF is committing atrocities that are really not different that what Hezbollah is doing.

And let's keep in mind the horrors the IDF is inflicting on the Lebanese, yah casualties could be a hell of a lot higher, but they are nevertheless severals times more than what Hezbollah has inflicted on the Israelis.

I think I covered this already as well

Israel's critics cite the civilian death toll as justification for anti-Semitic rants and words like "atrocity." But if we are going to condemn civilian deaths, let's consider the following:

In the last six years, in suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks, 7,520 Israelis have been injured and 1,133 killed. Now that's an atrocity.