the world is a dumpster fire right now and political correctness has spiralled out of control, especially in recent years, so I think this discussion is rather fitting.
Cultural Appropriation
- Thread starter Metaxa
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I'm surprised you think the world is a dumpster fire right now considering your love of human psychology. The current first world environment is a byproduct of the prevalence of social media. Pre-social media you might read the paper in the morning, and then catch the evening news on TV. Now you're bombarded with personal opinion and baity headlines all over the place as soon as you go to unlock your phone. It creates a heightened but false sense of insecurity about our environment. It was essential for survival when the parallel was hearing movement in a nearby bush that could be from that of a predator, but we're talking about the fucking Internet now.
Truth of the matter is: progress in technology means that the world is in the best spot than it ever has been in the past. Does it mean that it can't be better? Fuck no. I'm not invalidating for the stances people fight for, but the shit we complain about in the first world countries doesn't even register on the radar for two-thirds of the world's population. It just feels that way because we're very consumed in our own little bubble. Think about it. How good of a life do we live if what we are concerned about is cultural appropriation? You don't have to worry about going hungry, not having a roof over your head, how to get clean water, deciding whether to pull your 7 year old kid from school so they can help you farm. Again, not invalidating things that can be better, but sometimes it's nice to take a step back and feel grateful for what we have. I hope everyone considers the issues with perspective on the grandest stage instead of the microcosm created by our personal media space.
The numbers are most definitely not the same. There is such a thing as white privilege that protects and advantages us (to us, it's just 'normal') that people of color do not experience. Our reality is very different than theirs. That is what is so difficult for many white people to grasp. We all have biases whether we are conscious of them or not. That is human. The way we perceive poc is different than white people.
There is no justification for killing someone for resisting. Non lethal ways are just as effective. I really don't understand that kind of thinking. There surely are white people who are killed by police but not anywhere close to the numbers of black men. There are also plenty of examples of killings that didn't involve resisting.
I recently watched the "Dear white people" on Netflix and the first season is super informative.
This is such an enormous topic and in order to really have a conversation, white people have to set aside their ideas and listen to a completely foreign perception. Most people are not able to do it and it is a shame because that's what we need if we want a better world and equality.
White fragility.
Generational trauma. First nations have been so mistreated and colonialism is the root. Smallpox killed but there are a hundred more cruelties we inflicted on the living. This is a legacy that does not just disappear. If a parent abuses a child for years, do you think that no scars will remain as an adult simply because the abuse has stopped? Obviously not, we carry the trauma and pass it on to new generations. I think it's heartbreaking that people cannot recognize that and blame the victims for hundreds of years of attempts to annihilate them. They need reparations and time to heal. Same goes for black people.
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There is no such thing as reverse racism.
We as white people do not experience racism.
So what am I unable to do as a non white person, that a white person is able to do? I don't worry about getting shot by cops, or being mistreated by them. I don't have to worry about not being chosen for a job because I'm not white. If the argument was that blacks and browns and even First Nations are disadvantaged and discriminated against, then I would agree. But I'm not white, and I can do everything a white person can do, and probably more.
When the resisting suspect becomes a threat to police or the public, that is when it is justified. However, I do agree that police should transition to a less lethal method of subduing suspects. Also, more white people get killed by cops than blacks. But you never really see that in the media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States#cite_note-:3-6I'm citing the source of a wiki page, not the page the itself.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ce-no-more-likely-shoot-minorities-draws-fire
that includes listening to the idea that white privilege may not actually exist.
I don't mean to sound insensitive, but the First Nations people have basically been given reparations. Damage to people can never be undone, but Canada has taken steps to atone for its past. It's a hell of a lot better than what Japan has done after their more recent crimes committed in the first half of the 20th century.
White people can experience racism. However, white people have not experienced racism like other races did back in the day. These days, it's easy to just blame the straight white guy. It's easy to say "this space should only be for BIPOC" - that's segregation by the way.
Also, is it just me or do white liberals have a saviour complex? I always see white people get more upset about these racial issues than non whites.
Just to reiterate, I'm not white. These opinions are my own. Have a nice day
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Police kill people who resist because they can have weapons, or can take police weapons and pose a risk to themselves, other officers or the public. What if officers just let Rayshard Brooks run off, and he hijacked one of the cars at the Wendy's and drove off and killed a family while he was driving drunk?
You're absolutely wrong on your numbers. The rate might be higher for black people, but the total numbers are much higher for white people killed by police. And don't forget, the vast majority are killed in the commission of crimes - that goes for whites and blacks. The rates of violent crimes committed by black people are the reason their neighbourhoods have a larger police presence and contact. The number of black men killed by other black men is 8,000 - 9,000 a year, and that is drastically increasing. BLM ignores those stats. Police kill about 200 black men a year. The Washington Post has compiled interesting stats: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
And this is considered resisting arrest. What non-lethal method of dealing with this do you think would be an option?...
Yes, all the basement experts have no idea how difficult it is to restrain someone who's high, wants to flee, or fight. Even a small woman can be difficult for a number of men to get under control. Now add in by-standers interferring or distracting officers, and it gets even more hairy.
And of course, then the 30 seconds of video posted on-line convicts them. Watch some of the many simulations where news people or politicians take part, and they almost always fail to do the right thing. And that's in a controlled environment.
And of course, then the 30 seconds of video posted on-line convicts them. Watch some of the many simulations where news people or politicians take part, and they almost always fail to do the right thing. And that's in a controlled environment.
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So, Hamilton. Black performers playing white historical figures. Why is that acceptable, but a white actor doing a voice for a minority cartoon considered improper?
Here's one to think on hard. Apparently cultural appropriation is wrong but gender appropriation is fine? Really think about it. On the one hand people are saying you can't borrow or use things from a cultural group if you are not part of that cultural group, especially if it is something religious, ceremonial, etc... Furthermore, to say you identify with that group is also unacceptable. Yet it is fine for a person to identify as a gender different than they were biologically at birth?
I'm not saying either is wrong and frankly couldn't give a shit what people do. It's just funny people want to jump on one band wagon and not the other.
So think hard and if you can explain why one is acceptable and the other is not acceptable.
I'm not saying either is wrong and frankly couldn't give a shit what people do. It's just funny people want to jump on one band wagon and not the other.
So think hard and if you can explain why one is acceptable and the other is not acceptable.
The "Oppressor vs the Oppressed" narrative is one of the fundamental beliefs of Marxist ideology.
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Absolutely, but is ageism equivalent to racism? I was fired by a young black man because I am an old white man.
People undergoing brutal medical treatments like chemo who wear $40 head-wraps get accused of appropriation. What should they do? Not everyone can pay for a $3000 high quality wig (especially when dealing with serious health issues that prevent them from being able to work) What is their option? Wear an uncomfortable cheap wig to avoid offending others?
This is NOT accurate.
Anyone can make a dreamcatcher if done with respect but only Native American decedents, or those initiated by Elders or a Tribe can sell them if they choose to do so.
A culture that suppressed these traditions should not profit off the very one they tried to destroy.
This is not just my personal viewpoint as a Status First Nations person who lived/grew on reserve.
A survey on Facebook was conducted in a Native American group with over 158,840 members were 98% of Native Americans voted that anyone can make a dreamcatcher but only Indigenous peoples can sell them if they choose to do so.
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There is so much to unpack here and so many specifics I’d love to jump on but with 5 pages already, it is impossible especially considering I'm a fact checker to a fault. To stay on topic, I think the issue of cultural appropriation is largely overblown as we’re all living in one large culture, Western culture, that pulls from all cultures that it is made up of. It was stated somewhere earlier in this thread, and stated by Bill Maher, that most people that get pissed about racism and cultural appropriation are white people that are being angry for everyone else. I cannot agree more. I can see the issue with Native head dresses, and such, but I’m sorry, blacks have zero ownership of dreadlocks. Dreadlocks, as a hairstyle, evolved in different unrelated cultures over thousands of years.
A Cree Nation Chief in 1885
Greek wrestlers, 1800 BC
It was documented as far back as the 7th century BC in Poland (what eventually became Poland) and up to the 19th century as well.
Indian ascetic monks, Spartans, some Tibetan monks, etc. Dreads have been worn in many cultures for almost 6000 years.
In a multi-cultural environment such as North America and Western Europe, "cultural appropriation" as it stands today is nothing more than a bottomless pit of excuses for people to bitch and complain when they really have nothing better to do. There are obvious examples that we can all agree upon as exceptions. For instance, the absolutely disastrous attempt by the democrats in the US Congress to appease to their Twitter base by kneeling while wearing Kente cloths is one such example. None of them would be caught dead wearing a Kente cloth outside of that one photo-op and many of my black friends and family thought it was ridiculous as well. So to answer the OP's original question, cultural appropriation is when someone takes issue with how another person dresses, cooks, speaks, sings, or generally presents themselves because it is "stealing" that behaviour from another culture, while the person offended is guaranteed to be doing the same thing, as we all are, in a culture made up of literally dozens, if not hundreds of other cultures at the same time.
A Cree Nation Chief in 1885
Greek wrestlers, 1800 BC
It was documented as far back as the 7th century BC in Poland (what eventually became Poland) and up to the 19th century as well.
Indian ascetic monks, Spartans, some Tibetan monks, etc. Dreads have been worn in many cultures for almost 6000 years.
In a multi-cultural environment such as North America and Western Europe, "cultural appropriation" as it stands today is nothing more than a bottomless pit of excuses for people to bitch and complain when they really have nothing better to do. There are obvious examples that we can all agree upon as exceptions. For instance, the absolutely disastrous attempt by the democrats in the US Congress to appease to their Twitter base by kneeling while wearing Kente cloths is one such example. None of them would be caught dead wearing a Kente cloth outside of that one photo-op and many of my black friends and family thought it was ridiculous as well. So to answer the OP's original question, cultural appropriation is when someone takes issue with how another person dresses, cooks, speaks, sings, or generally presents themselves because it is "stealing" that behaviour from another culture, while the person offended is guaranteed to be doing the same thing, as we all are, in a culture made up of literally dozens, if not hundreds of other cultures at the same time.
