There's a fine line between having a few tattoos, and having something stupid on your face/neck... and showing up to an interview in shorts is unacceptable....
Congratulations, You Just Lost a Job Opportunity
- Thread starter Cock Throppled
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I'm going to chime in here. As I have read this thread I have been wavering on both sides of the argument. Both are correct, in their own frame of reference. It interests me in particular because I work at the executive level of a professional business, yet I too have been struggling with the decision of whether or not to get a tattoo.
First, I would say that perhaps some of you are being a bit harsh on the OP. Maybe he could have presented his case somewhat more objectively, specifically and with less generalization, but he DOES have some valid points.
1) CURRENTLY, tattoos are not appropriate if one has a specific interest in CERTAIN professions, which is clearly why many choose to get sleeves or discrete tattoos. While tattoos are all the rage in most western cultures right now, this is not the case everywhere. If you are an international business that deals with many foreign clients, perhaps Middle Eastern or Asian, then having a client representative with visible tattoos on his/her body may not be the best choice if you want business with more conservative cultures/clients. Maybe the reference to 'burger flippers' as the only alternative for tattooed individuals was out of line, but I think the point is still valid.
2) Tattoos can be tasteful and they can be crass. This is relevant. As an exaggeration, a tattoo of a naked woman riding a Pegasus may put more conservative people in an awkward position - either co-workers or clients - again, depending on the type of work. A facial tattoo - same thing. A skull tattoo with knives that says 'Live to Die' might also make some uncomfortable. What was the reasoning behind the tattoo? Do you really have a death wish? Were you going for something that made you appear tough and badass? Maybe not the best guy for the job. Is there a bit of prejudice and prejudgment in there? Absolutely, but welcome to the world, can I get you a users manual? Hiring managers use probabilities to assess people in a short period of time. If you have a tattoo that says "Anarchy," you might be a great guy, but I have 15 mins, so I am going to assume you like chaos and hire the other dude.
Having said all that, I need to clarify that this is the state of the world RIGHT NOW. I fully expect - at the current rate of tattoo adoption in the younger generations - that at some point in the future it will be unavoidable to hire professionals with tattoos, simply because of their growing prevalence in the hiring pool. Frankly, once a few "get in", it will become irrelevant or even (subjectively) preferred - those with tattoos will be the leaders doing the hiring.
All the power to those who have had tattoos for over a decade and made the decision individually for strong personal reasons rather than on a whim or in a drunken stupor. Perhaps you are a creative type that truly appreciates art in all its forms and wants to recreate something that moves you or is of your own design on your own human canvas. Those mean something, are relevant, and were not crowd-inspired. But I would have to agree with the OP's assertion that over the past decade, much like iPods, Facebook, and hairstyles, tattoos have moved much closer to mainstream (in younger generations) and are pretty close to "pop culture" status right now. That has been my hesitation in getting one myself. I waited too long. It almost seems like there may be more value to having an unadulterated body in the coming years than otherwise. Every trend moves in cycles, and every cycle has its own duration. Fashion cycles and hairstyles tend to be short-lived and more frequently recurring, technology cycles are more variable. But just as I can almost guarantee that Facebook won't be a pre-eminent cultural icon and i-Pods will clutter landfills in 20 years, tattoos too will fade from popularity again. Tattoos were popular during WW2 for various reasons, then went out of favor and now they have come back stronger than ever. This should not necessarily deter someone from getting a tattoo, but just make the decision smartly, for your own (important) reasons.
And that does not include making yourself look tough. I agree with above posters - tattoos do not make you look tough. I don't care what is printed on your body. The pipsqueak covered head-to-toe with death tattoos is still a pipsqueak. The only thing is, now he is a "trendy" poser pipsqueak.
First, I would say that perhaps some of you are being a bit harsh on the OP. Maybe he could have presented his case somewhat more objectively, specifically and with less generalization, but he DOES have some valid points.
1) CURRENTLY, tattoos are not appropriate if one has a specific interest in CERTAIN professions, which is clearly why many choose to get sleeves or discrete tattoos. While tattoos are all the rage in most western cultures right now, this is not the case everywhere. If you are an international business that deals with many foreign clients, perhaps Middle Eastern or Asian, then having a client representative with visible tattoos on his/her body may not be the best choice if you want business with more conservative cultures/clients. Maybe the reference to 'burger flippers' as the only alternative for tattooed individuals was out of line, but I think the point is still valid.
2) Tattoos can be tasteful and they can be crass. This is relevant. As an exaggeration, a tattoo of a naked woman riding a Pegasus may put more conservative people in an awkward position - either co-workers or clients - again, depending on the type of work. A facial tattoo - same thing. A skull tattoo with knives that says 'Live to Die' might also make some uncomfortable. What was the reasoning behind the tattoo? Do you really have a death wish? Were you going for something that made you appear tough and badass? Maybe not the best guy for the job. Is there a bit of prejudice and prejudgment in there? Absolutely, but welcome to the world, can I get you a users manual? Hiring managers use probabilities to assess people in a short period of time. If you have a tattoo that says "Anarchy," you might be a great guy, but I have 15 mins, so I am going to assume you like chaos and hire the other dude.
Having said all that, I need to clarify that this is the state of the world RIGHT NOW. I fully expect - at the current rate of tattoo adoption in the younger generations - that at some point in the future it will be unavoidable to hire professionals with tattoos, simply because of their growing prevalence in the hiring pool. Frankly, once a few "get in", it will become irrelevant or even (subjectively) preferred - those with tattoos will be the leaders doing the hiring.
All the power to those who have had tattoos for over a decade and made the decision individually for strong personal reasons rather than on a whim or in a drunken stupor. Perhaps you are a creative type that truly appreciates art in all its forms and wants to recreate something that moves you or is of your own design on your own human canvas. Those mean something, are relevant, and were not crowd-inspired. But I would have to agree with the OP's assertion that over the past decade, much like iPods, Facebook, and hairstyles, tattoos have moved much closer to mainstream (in younger generations) and are pretty close to "pop culture" status right now. That has been my hesitation in getting one myself. I waited too long. It almost seems like there may be more value to having an unadulterated body in the coming years than otherwise. Every trend moves in cycles, and every cycle has its own duration. Fashion cycles and hairstyles tend to be short-lived and more frequently recurring, technology cycles are more variable. But just as I can almost guarantee that Facebook won't be a pre-eminent cultural icon and i-Pods will clutter landfills in 20 years, tattoos too will fade from popularity again. Tattoos were popular during WW2 for various reasons, then went out of favor and now they have come back stronger than ever. This should not necessarily deter someone from getting a tattoo, but just make the decision smartly, for your own (important) reasons.
And that does not include making yourself look tough. I agree with above posters - tattoos do not make you look tough. I don't care what is printed on your body. The pipsqueak covered head-to-toe with death tattoos is still a pipsqueak. The only thing is, now he is a "trendy" poser pipsqueak.
I've thought about them, but then again I have seen the tats my friends have gotten, and a lot of them look stupid.
Not to mention I remember talking to more than a few vets from WW2/Korea who got tats, and many said it was a horrible mistake. It's amazing what a little time & wisdom will do....
Not to mention I remember talking to more than a few vets from WW2/Korea who got tats, and many said it was a horrible mistake. It's amazing what a little time & wisdom will do....
And a butterfly tramp stamp tattoo that will look like a Psychiatrists ink blot... LOL
No Scars or Tattoo's don't make the man. The Tattoo's i have i don't regreat, the scars on the other hand i do regreat how i got them something i live with to remind myself to work safe. A real man is somebody that works hard, and steps up to responsibilty. I couldnt care if guys had long hair, purple mohawk, fully tattooed with piercings in every orfice of there body. Just Step up and be a man and Fuck off to the stereotypes.
Or Bee Gees forever, LOL.
I do feel sorry for those poor saps who has a tattoo with a typo or words that are lost in translation.
i suspect this debate has been ongoing for a long, long time pardners - like we're talkin' mesopotamian empire days here... :nod:
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I find that in Vancouver, our reputations generally precede us. This is such a networking town, that almost everyone has the job that they have because they knew someone who knew someone.
If I had to hire an employee, the last thing I would want to do is read through a bunch of boring resumes, and interview a bunch of strangers. I would hope that I have enough people in my circle that I could put the word out, and the referrals would just come in.
Tattoos and piercings aren't jewelry and the current (last few years) usage of tattoos and piercings as fashion statements has contributed to a greater divide between being attired for business vs. pleasure. Sure, we can all say that we should be keeping up with the times but, as fads will do, tattoos and piercings just won't be such a big deal in a few years.
Professional dress codes generally don't change though, and all those folks who want an equal opportunity in the business world are, in fact, getting in their own way by wanting freedom and acceptance in an arena where that's just not common. In other words, conform or be barred. It's been like that since time immemorial.
Twenty years ago, in my teens, I showed up at my office job at a CA firm in what I thought was a really sheik jumpsuit. My boss pulled me aside and let me know, in no uncertain terms, that my outfit wasn't appropriate for the office. She instructed me to go home and change. I'm sure if I pulled something like that today, and showed up on Monday morning sporting my new tattoo, the result would have been even more grave.
There will always be those professionals who are exceptions to the rule; I just wouldn't expect it to be a common occurrence.
http://mag.rankmytattoos.com/ink-meets-inc-20-tattooed-executive-and-white-collar-professionals.html
http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code_tattoos.htm
If I had to hire an employee, the last thing I would want to do is read through a bunch of boring resumes, and interview a bunch of strangers. I would hope that I have enough people in my circle that I could put the word out, and the referrals would just come in.
Tattoos and piercings aren't jewelry and the current (last few years) usage of tattoos and piercings as fashion statements has contributed to a greater divide between being attired for business vs. pleasure. Sure, we can all say that we should be keeping up with the times but, as fads will do, tattoos and piercings just won't be such a big deal in a few years.
Professional dress codes generally don't change though, and all those folks who want an equal opportunity in the business world are, in fact, getting in their own way by wanting freedom and acceptance in an arena where that's just not common. In other words, conform or be barred. It's been like that since time immemorial.
Twenty years ago, in my teens, I showed up at my office job at a CA firm in what I thought was a really sheik jumpsuit. My boss pulled me aside and let me know, in no uncertain terms, that my outfit wasn't appropriate for the office. She instructed me to go home and change. I'm sure if I pulled something like that today, and showed up on Monday morning sporting my new tattoo, the result would have been even more grave.
There will always be those professionals who are exceptions to the rule; I just wouldn't expect it to be a common occurrence.
http://mag.rankmytattoos.com/ink-meets-inc-20-tattooed-executive-and-white-collar-professionals.html
http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code_tattoos.htm
L
Larry Storch
I try not to, honest to God I do, but there is just such a physical contradiction. I can't help it. And what with the enormous amount of porn available online now I find almost all of my time is spent over at grannys-hot-young-boobies.com
Curse you internets! ! !
I find it odd that only myself and perhaps a couple of others has picked up a strong, negative overtone from the OP. Nobody is innocent here. Professionalism aside (because I do very well understand the reality of that part), there is a theme in the post which suggests a better-than-thou, looking-down-the-nose at tattooed folk. There are two remarks which vividly express this.
When you say the following to someone's face, you're a bit of a bully. When you say it behind their back for the whole internet to see, it's a little underhanded and somewhat unprofessional, but socially acceptable, apparently:
With comments like this, it encourages the coming landslide of negative replies about people with tattoos. It's like we're all an ill-natured joke to you people. Someone had to step in and stick up for the tattooed folk.
These are my last thoughts on this. Let's at least all agree to the mullet - business in the front, party in the back.
Originally Posted by Miss Melody:
you don't have to jump down everyone's throat right away, it shows a lack of maturity.
Perhaps a little premature to state being immature(or lack of maturity that is)
From my own personal perception after reading sexytimes post,all I see is a guy who is slightly frustrated with society's attitude towards tattoos.Believe it or not it is actually healthier to express ones emotions than keeping them bottled up.You can actually learn a lot about yourself by observing your emotions and learning from them...that is if your consciously aware enough to do so.
If you really think about it, it all boils down to ones unique perceptions based own their own personal life experiences.No ones more right than the other,it is what it is...contemplate that,ha,ha,ha
Love,Light ,Peace And ,Harmony.
you don't have to jump down everyone's throat right away, it shows a lack of maturity.
Perhaps a little premature to state being immature(or lack of maturity that is)
From my own personal perception after reading sexytimes post,all I see is a guy who is slightly frustrated with society's attitude towards tattoos.Believe it or not it is actually healthier to express ones emotions than keeping them bottled up.You can actually learn a lot about yourself by observing your emotions and learning from them...that is if your consciously aware enough to do so.
If you really think about it, it all boils down to ones unique perceptions based own their own personal life experiences.No ones more right than the other,it is what it is...contemplate that,ha,ha,ha
Love,Light ,Peace And ,Harmony.
I am the owner of my companies, not a manager, so I get final say on who works or doesn't work for me. I use whatever logic I want to determine who I think would be a good employee. I happen to use demeanor and appearance as one of those and visible tattoos will put you out of the running pretty fast.
I have to laugh at people so self-absorbed they don't think they are judged by their tattoos.
We are judged dozens of times a day by height, weight, skin colour, clothing, age, perceived income, length of nose, smell, complexion, posture, etc etc. We are judged all day long and idiotic, crude visible tattoos are not looked on favourably by a lot of people.
There's a reason tattoos are popular now - peer pressure and celebrity influence. Rappers and people like Angelina Jolie and David Beckham - good looking people I now think look grotesque with their mass of ink - make tattoos seem like all the cool kids have them.
Sheeple getting tats then convince their friends they should be part of the crowd and you end up with ridiculous things like team names, cartoon characters, barbed wire or tribal, Hindi or Chinese characters on their skin when they have absolutely no connection to those cultures. Even funnier when the tat they think says Peace actually reads Butter Chicken.
And why would anyone get a tattoo on their back or ass they can't even see? Or tributes to dead relatives? How is that is any way a tribute? Whatever happened to remembering someone without having to show off to the rest of the fucking world?
And pre-judging "the poindexter in the suit" from someone heavily tattooed who doesn't think he should be judged is an indication of that person's lack of insight.
Rather than be more accepted, I think the fad will eventually fade, just like the tattoos and there will fewer tats in the mainstream in the future further isolating the people now covered in ink.
According to the American Society of Dermatological Surgery, over 50% of everyone receiving a tattoo wants it removed. Tattoo removal surgery via laser surgery is among the fastest growing areas of the dermatological industry.
Some studies put the number of people who regret getting a tattoo as high as 80%.
Eventually the sub culture of ex-cons, street people, drug dealers and sailors will reclaim their tats.
I have to laugh at people so self-absorbed they don't think they are judged by their tattoos.
We are judged dozens of times a day by height, weight, skin colour, clothing, age, perceived income, length of nose, smell, complexion, posture, etc etc. We are judged all day long and idiotic, crude visible tattoos are not looked on favourably by a lot of people.
There's a reason tattoos are popular now - peer pressure and celebrity influence. Rappers and people like Angelina Jolie and David Beckham - good looking people I now think look grotesque with their mass of ink - make tattoos seem like all the cool kids have them.
Sheeple getting tats then convince their friends they should be part of the crowd and you end up with ridiculous things like team names, cartoon characters, barbed wire or tribal, Hindi or Chinese characters on their skin when they have absolutely no connection to those cultures. Even funnier when the tat they think says Peace actually reads Butter Chicken.
And why would anyone get a tattoo on their back or ass they can't even see? Or tributes to dead relatives? How is that is any way a tribute? Whatever happened to remembering someone without having to show off to the rest of the fucking world?
And pre-judging "the poindexter in the suit" from someone heavily tattooed who doesn't think he should be judged is an indication of that person's lack of insight.
Rather than be more accepted, I think the fad will eventually fade, just like the tattoos and there will fewer tats in the mainstream in the future further isolating the people now covered in ink.
According to the American Society of Dermatological Surgery, over 50% of everyone receiving a tattoo wants it removed. Tattoo removal surgery via laser surgery is among the fastest growing areas of the dermatological industry.
Some studies put the number of people who regret getting a tattoo as high as 80%.
Eventually the sub culture of ex-cons, street people, drug dealers and sailors will reclaim their tats.
I tend to agree with this, but I think your statistics are a bit bogus.
As I mentioned in my previous posts, I have a number of Tattoo's, they all signify important events or relaizations in my life, they are all easily covered as I am a business professional, quite succesful I might add.
Statistics can be manipulated to prove just about anything that you want...it depends on your sampling, your demographics, the questions asked, how the numbers are filtered or slanted. Spin doctors' stock-in-trade is the manipulation of statistics to sway public opinion.
This is an interesting insight and you make a compelling argument, however I think what this thread really exposes is a lack of open-mindedness. Do you feel the same way about hiring openly gay men? What about someone who shows up to the interview with a bible in their hand? The only mistake these people are making by showing up for an interview with their tats showing is the mistake of being honest about themselves. Some people are more comfortable with their looks and the reason they don't go around hiding it is because they don't really think too much about what others. For a job interview, yes, this may be a mistake but that's maybe why they work for your company and don't own it - nobody's perfect.
I too have always had the final say in who works for me and have hired many people with tats and odd piercings. I tell them that this sort of personal decor isn't viewed positively by our customers and ask how they feel about removing the piercings and not showcasing the tats at work. Their response to this question is what does it for me. I'm not about to force my customers to change their views, but I am willing to change mine if it means hiring someone with exceptional skills who is willing to put the needs of the company/customer ahead of their own. Some of the views in this thread are just simply old-fashioned.
I asked a young friend about this subject. She's currently half way through her second degree (engineering this time) with a 3.9GPA and while she has no odd piercings or tattoos, she has many friends sporting this sort of decor and accepts them for who they are - she's at the top of her game. She felt that if a company was hiring based on looks, she wouldn't want to work there because this would probably mean the company itself wasn't as good as it looked - they probably spent more time making themselves look better than they were and she only wants to work for the cream of the crop. Interesting point. This is the generation we live in.
What happens to the employees already hired that decide to get a tattoo? Are they out of a job?
The fact is, we all have different tastes. If not, there would be no such thing as a menu in a restaurant - there'd be only one dish available and we'd all get the same.
Thanks Byson for describing me. Have we met? I always wondered what a real man looks like.
I am now self employed but when I was active in a National Corporate world, I hired and fired numerous reps across the country. My industry is High Tech and clearly having a lot of ink or piercings on your face would not really fit in with the environment. However, if the ink was discrete, I gave it a pass. Pierced ear or ears, sure ok but not those huge holes whatever you call those things.
What bothered me most about people showing up for interviews was how low they would dress down for a job that may pay them nearly $200K if they hit all their targets and bonuses.
I had a guy who was fully competent technically, presented well verbally and had excellent technical writing skills. I had to pass on him because he in essence told me that he dressed the way he dressed because it was comfortable and unnecessary to wear dress clothes while seeing clients or attending trade shows etc. He would wear jeans, frayed T shirts and sometimes old running shoes. I told him we are selling multi million dollar solutions to clients who expect professionalism and if we show up looking that our whole credibility is in question. He stayed on but only as an inside sales person and he knew he had screwed up.
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On the subject of Tats (trying not to totally derail the thread) did anyone see Russell Peters recently at Rogers?
He took direct aim at all the people sitting in the front rows with visible ink on their arms.
His comment was "come on people, don't you realize this is like wearing an Ed Hardy T Shirt - PERMANENTLY!"
One young guy had both arms fully covered in ink and Russell asked him if he had ink elsewhere? The guy replied he had a cross and hands praying on his back and shoulders.
Russell replied - better pray you never go to jail so you don't get fucked in the ass!
Had to be there, his delivery was perfect.
What bothered me most about people showing up for interviews was how low they would dress down for a job that may pay them nearly $200K if they hit all their targets and bonuses.
I had a guy who was fully competent technically, presented well verbally and had excellent technical writing skills. I had to pass on him because he in essence told me that he dressed the way he dressed because it was comfortable and unnecessary to wear dress clothes while seeing clients or attending trade shows etc. He would wear jeans, frayed T shirts and sometimes old running shoes. I told him we are selling multi million dollar solutions to clients who expect professionalism and if we show up looking that our whole credibility is in question. He stayed on but only as an inside sales person and he knew he had screwed up.
==================
On the subject of Tats (trying not to totally derail the thread) did anyone see Russell Peters recently at Rogers?
He took direct aim at all the people sitting in the front rows with visible ink on their arms.
His comment was "come on people, don't you realize this is like wearing an Ed Hardy T Shirt - PERMANENTLY!"
One young guy had both arms fully covered in ink and Russell asked him if he had ink elsewhere? The guy replied he had a cross and hands praying on his back and shoulders.
Russell replied - better pray you never go to jail so you don't get fucked in the ass!
Had to be there, his delivery was perfect.
