Canada and First nations people going to War??

[jjinvan]

Yep, that's right... confused!

I think it was something about being banned from the US because she was carrying escort business cards at the border (I guess she got searched?).

I'm not quite sure if it was racist or not, hard to tell if she was complaining about all americans or just the border patrol.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

Uh, feel free not to "trust my opinion." I was under the impression that it was common sense not to assume that one member of a group necessarily speaks for all members of that group.

That of course is true. Maybe you took my post as generalizing?
That of course is not what I was saying. Not all radical groups emprize
every individual of said group of course.

Don't shoot the messenger my friend. Although there has been an
increasing disdane for the FN's situation growing in their circle.
Last summer I was talking with a group of 4 other fishing buddies.
We were sitting at a Tim's talking about the sockeye and spring fishing
we were doing at that time. Yes I'm a sports fisherman.

Anyway, there was this rather large Native fella sitting there having a
coffee eaves dropping on us without us knowing it. After he finished his
coffee he came over to the 5 of us and said straight out;

You F'ing white men have no right to be on OUR river. He was of course
talking about the Fraser. We all looked at this guy like he belonged in
a rubber room. Man you wanna talk about racism.
Howz that for ya? The last few years have been big trouble on
the Fraser between FN's, sports and commercial fisherman and who knows
what's going to be in store for this year's salmon fishery. It was almost
to the point with FN's threats on the Fraser that people were to the point
they were going to carry guns while out fishing. WTF is going on??

Before that time there was no trouble on the Fraser between the differing
fishing groups. What the hell has changed to cause so much contempt
for white people by FN's?

Personally I think it's a crying shame that we can't all get along and just
coexist peacefully. Like JJ said it's only going to get worse. As far as
the fishing problems are concerned the FN's seem to completely believe
that they outrightly own the Fraser and can fish it to extinction just to
prove their point that the Fraser belongs to them and no one else.
So much for their respect of the salmon as a species !!!!

Take for example the Sto'lo in Chilliwack. Every year for the last few years
they have been drift netting that section of the river from shore to shore
on the hour every hour 24/7. With no involvement of the DFO only to
do a so called "count" of the fish they are taking.
Imagine if anyone else were to do that. You'd be strung up and dealt with
immediately. My question is why does our gov't do nothing to stop this
behaviour before it's too late. Being it the fishing or the CN blockades?

What are they waiting for?????? Our own little Native bands to go on an
all out Jihad of their own? Interesting times in our nation.


...........QM'r

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

Yet another racist

At the risk of finding out if you're just trolling here JJ I guess you think
that our gov't is a bunch of racists since they put into affect the free
education, no taxes and all the other things given the FN's.

How can Reluctantpooners comment be considered racist when he mearly
is stating fact? Setting the military on them surely would be done if
any other group tried the same thing of blockading railroads or other
disruptive behaviour.

Originally Posted by ReluctantPooner
Yep, setting the military on them would be the best way to deal with them IMO. Free education, no taxes. Yep, they have lots to bitch about

..........QM'r

 

[jjinvan]

At the risk of finding out if you're just trolling here JJ I guess you think
that our gov't is a bunch of racists since they put into affect the free
education, no taxes and all the other things given the FN's.

How can Reluctantpooners comment be considered racist when he mearly
is stating fact? Setting the military on them surely would be done if
any other group tried the same thing of blockading railroads or other
disruptive behaviour.
..........QM'r

I think it's funny that the same people who jumped all over me and called me a racist for mentioning that a creepy guy was Chinese are happy to say all sorts of racist things about the FN people.

I was merely stating a fact too, but that didn't seem to matter.

You people have to decide if you're a bunch of Politically Correct twits who need the word 'allegedly' in front of everything or not, and then be consistant.

 

[jjinvan]

that our gov't is a bunch of racists since they put into affect the free education, no taxes and all the other things given the FN's.

By the way, their education isn't 'freer' than that of any other citizen.

Do you have a problem with their free healthcare too?

 

[twoblues]

Yep, setting the military on them would be the best way to deal with them IMO. Free education, no taxes. Yep, they have lots to bitch about

The problem is that there is a big separation between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in the native community. The Squamish Nation is one of the richest, if not the richest band in Canada. Yet, if you go through their reserve (lived next to it all my life), you will see some very well to do people/properties and some near the poverty line.

There is a big issue with band leadership. If you are in the good books with the leadership, then you are first in line for payouts, else, you aren't. There was a Native women making the talk show circuits a few years back pointing out all these issues. Of course, you get a free house, but that doesn't have any value in the eyes of the banks. So your assets are pretty minimal on reserve land.

On top of all that, there are many bands that do not have the property/mineral rights to really make any money. There are some very very poor bands out there, especially in the northern parts of many provinces. Why do you think early Canadians put them on those reserve lands? No one wanted those pieces of land.

Anyways, after all that, I do believe that it is the Native man or woman's responsibility to change their own system instead of blaming the outside system.

I have known a couple of Native guys who moved off the reserve, got an education and got a good job. Other Natives call them "whitey lover", etc...There is no respect for Natives that have the balls to choose their own future. Of course, this is similar to issues in American public schools where there is peer pressure from African American juniors against other AA's not to succeed in school because they are considered "whiteys boy". (sorry, can't find the link, though I believe it was an AP article a few weeks ago)

 

[blazejowski]

Not touching this one with a 10-foot-pole

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

I think it's funny that the same people who jumped all over me and called me a racist for mentioning that a creepy guy was Chinese are happy to say all sorts of racist things about the FN people.

I was merely stating a fact too, but that didn't seem to matter.

You people have to decide if you're a bunch of Politically Correct twits who need the word 'allegedly' in front of everything or not, and then be consistant.

So my assumption of you trolling was correct. Way to go man.
Thanks for your hard thought input into this thread.

Why in hell can we not have a discusssion about issues involving other
ethnicities without all the racial undertones applied.

The fucks wrong with you people?

By the way, their education isn't 'freer' than that of any other citizen.
Do you have a problem with their free healthcare too?

Oh really.......so how do you account for the taxes I pay and me being
given free education and free healthcare? Give your head a shake brother.
Or are you going to tell me the FN's people pay taxes too, to support
education and healthcare??

Christ........


...........QM'r

 

[jjinvan]

Why in hell can we not have a discusssion about issues involving other ethnicities without all the racial undertones applied.

The fucks wrong with you people?

That was exactly my point. Glad you agree.

I guess I was being a touch too sarcastic and indirect about it.

Oh really.......so how do you account for the taxes I pay and me being
given free education and free healthcare? Give your head a shake brother.
Or are you going to tell me the FN's people pay taxes too, to support
education and healthcare??

Ok, if you want to talk about them not paying taxes, that's a whole other issue and is specific to them being FN.

But, I can tell you from both my own experiences and from reading countless studies and reports on the issue, 85% of healthcare money gets spent on people that don't pay a nickle of tax towards paying for it. And, that does NOT count the FN people because their healthcare is actually NOT funded by medicare.

So, the issue of people getting free healthcare without paying any taxes is NOT a FN vs not FN issue.

And, for education, exactly how much tax do you think those who are receiving the free education (ie: the kids) pay? Not a heck of a lot. Personally I'd rather have educated FN people walking around than uneducated ones who wind up in jail (yes there are PLENTY of studies showing that education and winding up in jail have an inverse relationship in both native and non-native populations).

So, if you want to talk about not paying taxes, great, but don't single out the FN people for getting free education and healthcare, that's something that ALL canadians, a GREAT MANY of whom don't pay any taxes and aren't FN, get.

 

[Lady Companion]

First Nations and Taxes

I just thought I would clarify some misconceptions regarding First Nations and taxes.

First of all - well over 90% of working Frist Nations people pay taxes in the exact same manner as other Canadian citizens.

First nations are exempt for Income Tax if MORE THAN 90% of their income earning activity occurs on reserve. From 1996 onward, tenants of association was also introduced into the equation...meaning that simply working and generating income on reserve may not necessarily be sufficient to make one tax exepmt. Who the work was being done for (was it to benefit FN people), where the individual lived and banked, where the business was registered etc....also became determining factors in whether the income was to be taxed.

The vast majority of us work off of reseve land....and therefore pay our income tax/cpp/gst etc. just like everybody else.

In many cases First Nations people who do work ON reserve (my mother is an example) are also subjected to full tax rates. She works on reserve at a hospital (governmnent owned) which caters predominatly to First Nations people...but this is still not considered suffiienct to not be paying taxes on her income.

As you can see - this tax expemption works for such a miniscule precentage of First Nations people. The vast majority of us pay our full and fair share.

Up until 1996, GIC's which were registered to banks on reserve (and if invested 'in house') had the advantage of the derived income being tax exepmt (since it was after all earned on reserve). A 1996 ruling deemed even in house GIC's to be 'commercial mainstream' and therefore taxable at the regular rate.

The only other tax break which first nations people have is on purchases under the following circumstances; Items purchased on reserved, or delivered to reserve are exempt from taxes. With the exception of large appliances/cars etc....the extra delivery charges/time are really not worth the savings - and very few of us take advantage of this savings.

 

[jjinvan]

I had also understood that they had a generalized GST exemption and some PST exemptions in stores.

I"ve seen signs in several stores saying that natives claiming a GST exemption have to present their ID prior to the cashier ringing up the items.

Also as far as I know, natives on reserves don't pay property taxes to the municipalities but do have access to many of the services funded by those taxes.

(Not saying I agree or disagree with this, that would be a much more complicated issue)

 

[Lady Companion]

GST/PST in stores

There are some stores located on reserve....Park Royal South in West Vancouver would be a local example. Perhaps some of the signs you have seen regarding the tax exemption have been at stores located on reserves. As mentioned, items purchased on reserve or delivered to reserve are tax exempt.

You are correct in that a FN persons living on reserve (their reserve only) do not pay property taxes to the government. However, if they want to utilize the services of city sewer/fire department etc. they are contracted for and the band pays for it. A first nations person living on another reserve is subject to the same taxes/leaseholds etc. as a non native would be. The money doesn't go to the government, but to the band to pay for the services such as fire/sewer etc.

So yes...I pay property taxes on my house in the same way as my neighbour. However, if I applied for land, and received a parcel on the very secluded area which my band has been alloted, chose to build a house and live there....then I would not have to pay property taxes on THAT house (because the land actually belongs to my band and not the government). I would however have property with no value (it can't be resold and will always belong to the band) and be in the middle of nowhere. It's great if you are an extremely cultured First Nations person who wants to stay as close to their roots as possible. It's terrible if you are looking for a financial advantage (as you still have to come up with the money to build your hourse etc...and it will never have any real value)

 

[LaCreme]

Yep, that's right... confused!

hein? who is right? and who is confuse?

 

[LaCreme]

help

I think it was something about being banned from the US because she was carrying escort business cards at the border (I guess she got searched?).

I'm not quite sure if it was racist or not, hard to tell if she was complaining about all americans or just the border patrol.

yeah. in the border patrol ...they thought it was suspicious to shop in the USA for a couple days then they found escort business card... i am not mad to all Americans it would be unfair to say that. what cant i do now?

 

[LaCreme]

health reason?

hey jj how about calling the feds racist since they have now introduced a racist fishery. we are all created equal. bullshit. i'm here on this planet at the same time as you or anyone else but this fed government says that a fisherman who has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars of his hard eaned money into a legitimate business and he cannot fish while a native only commercial fishery can. i is no for food or ceremonial food fish it is for commercial purposes. next they will want to be paid for the air we breath.
the only way to solve this bullshit is to make allllllll persons equal, get rid of reservations (apparthied) and the indian act.

mercury is the cause why the feds doesn't want the native to fish like they used too.. is about something who start in japan with cat ...50 yrs ago then it came in here in our lake " yeah something weird like that"

even my self i did notice north American fish was different from the sud.

hey if every body was equal i would be able to shake my body in the us.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

That was exactly my point. Glad you agree.

But, I can tell you from both my own experiences and from reading countless studies and reports on the issue, 85% of healthcare money gets spent on people that don't pay a nickle of tax towards paying for it. And, that does NOT count the FN people because their healthcare is actually NOT funded by medicare.

And, for education, exactly how much tax do you think those who are receiving the free education (ie: the kids) pay? Not a heck of a lot. Personally I'd rather have educated FN people walking around than uneducated ones who wind up in jail (yes there are PLENTY of studies showing that education and winding up in jail have an inverse relationship in both native and non-native populations).

So, if you want to talk about not paying taxes, great, but don't single out the FN people for getting free education and healthcare, that's something that ALL canadians, a GREAT MANY of whom don't pay any taxes and aren't FN, get.

So who's recieving the free healthcare at a rate of 85% that you quote
who don't pay taxes?
As far as education goes other than FN's who are the other people who
are not paying taxes that recieve the education. I'll answer this small bit,
of course it's not the kids who are paying taxes that recieve the free
education. They aren't earning money to pay taxes but I'm sure their
parents are paying the taxes that put them through school.
So just who are you talking about then?


...........QM'r

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

mercury is the cause why the feds doesn't want the native to fish like they used too.. is about something who start in japan with cat ...50 yrs ago then it came in here in our lake " yeah something weird like that"

even my self i did notice north American fish was different from the sud.

hey if every body was equal i would be able to shake my body in the us.

This does not make sense LC as the natives are allowed to take untold
numbers of salmon like never before. They don't fish in the same style
as they used to do with dip nets standing on a rock outcropping like in
the old days. Today they proliferate the river with drift, set and gill nets.

All these fish except for a few are sold............period !

What is this sud you refer to where NA fish are different from that?


.............QM'r

 

[ReluctantPooner]

By the way, their education isn't 'freer' than that of any other citizen.

Do you have a problem with their free healthcare too?

If you live on a reserve, you can go to University or college without paying tuition.

 

[jjinvan]

There are some stores located on reserve....Park Royal South in West Vancouver would be a local example. Perhaps some of the signs you have seen regarding the tax exemption have been at stores located on reserves. As mentioned, items purchased on reserve or delivered to reserve are tax exempt.

You are correct in that a FN persons living on reserve (their reserve only) do not pay property taxes to the government. However, if they want to utilize the services of city sewer/fire department etc. they are contracted for and the band pays for it. A first nations person living on another reserve is subject to the same taxes/leaseholds etc. as a non native would be. The money doesn't go to the government, but to the band to pay for the services such as fire/sewer etc.

So yes...I pay property taxes on my house in the same way as my neighbour. However, if I applied for land, and received a parcel on the very secluded area which my band has been alloted, chose to build a house and live there....then I would not have to pay property taxes on THAT house (because the land actually belongs to my band and not the government). I would however have property with no value (it can't be resold and will always belong to the band) and be in the middle of nowhere. It's great if you are an extremely cultured First Nations person who wants to stay as close to their roots as possible. It's terrible if you are looking for a financial advantage (as you still have to come up with the money to build your hourse etc...and it will never have any real value)

A couple of weeks ago, some of the natives living on their reserve in the middle of the Saanich peninsula (definately NOT the middle of nowhere) decided to burn a bunch of garbage in the middle of a dried out field next to the forest. Yes, they started a brushfire and a small forest fire. The fire departments from 2 municipalities showed up to put the fire out, because they didn't want to let the whole peninsula burn down.

Also, the local police are ALWAYS dealing with natives in the bars near the reserve, and they are paid through the municipal property taxes.

Does the band receive bills from the fire and police departments for these sorts of things?

 

[jjinvan]

If you live on a reserve, you can go to University or college without paying tuition.

So can any citizen from a low income family, I know several people who had their entire tuition paid by the government for undergrad who were NOT natives.