C36 Merged thread, everything goes here

[Alabama Blaze]

I know that getting onto that board is going to be tougher from now on, according to the board owner. I think that move is a smart one.

We'll have to see if that works out. I re-designed a review forum for a UK punters site last year and they used similar tactics the administrator of the other Alberta review board is implementing. They eventually ended-up opening the site again since the changes hurt their web traffic and business.

Most the real issues would come from Staff members interfering or trying to police the community off the board. That draws attention you just don't want. A lot escort advertising site admins will have to train their staff to operate discreetly and intelligently under C-36.

As Admin, you can follow the law to the letter and be screwed over by something foolish/stupid that one of staff member gets themselves involved in.

 

[hornygandalf]

... Harper will go down as the worst PM since Mulroney, and that's saying something.

Except, he is such a control freak over information, he probably has writers and so-called historians ready in the background to write the 'official and authorised' version of his regime, and will ensure that archival papers that contradict that quietly disappear. He has already defunded Archives Canada to the extent that it is almost impossible for scholars to access any records there.

He will have history written to depict his time as PM in the way he wants it depicted.

 

[Equity Market investor]

On News 1130 tonight, I caught the last few minutes of it but, they had a brief talk segment regarding C-36, and one spokesman stated police municipalities are turning a blind eye to this BILL. From what I gather is that L/E won't be making this a MAJOR priority whatsoever.

I'm sure like us they're thinking how retarded this C-36 is as well. There's so much backlash going on I doubt this BILL will be permanent.

 

[derivative]

There's so much backlash going on I doubt this BILL will be permanent.

I've heard a lot of members here say this and I want this to be true too. but do you think this is a bias view? what have the common people (people who don't partake in this hobby) said about this bill?

 

[Equity Market investor]

I've heard a lot of members here say this and I want this to be true too. but do you think this is a bias view? what have the common people (people who don't partake in this hobby) said about this bill?

Very unknown what the common person thinks of this. Truth is, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of the average people are clueless on C-36 lol so....

However, the government doesn't really care to much about the everyday average person in the grande scheme of things. But, they should somewhat concerned because a larger than expected backlash or protest could eventually lead to electoral defeat. People can speak through votes in this case.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

imo police usually do what the crown prosecutor asks them to do

if the crown prosecutor reads the law and sees too many ambiguities in it to guarantee a successful prosecution, then he'll tell the police to lay off it

however, if the feds lean on somebody to get some arrests for publicity sake (or suffer the consequences - like forget about that budget request for new vehicles that just got submitted) then the rcmp will proceed with the arrests, even if the crown prosecutor is unwilling to waste time and money in court with an unwinnable case due to those ambiguities

time will tell what is going to happen and when, but it will take the form of a day or a few days of cross-canada raids, or a blitz on advertising sites in order to get the headlines, then business as usual again... until election time, then another round of raids and blitzes so the feds can say, 'see, we told you there were trafficked women in this industry, and if you vote us back in, we promise to really get tough on those perverted traffickers'

of course the arrests will lead to zero convictions due to the ambiguities of the laws, but with the arrests, the damage is done from the pooners' point of view. it's a campaign of terror that the old kgb would be proud of

 

[rts]

I doubt this idea will gain much traction among us pooners (as I'm sure we all prefer to be disecreet), but I'll present the it anyway. I think since C-36 is 100% about politics and 0% about consideration of the December2013 Supreme Court ruling on the old prostitution laws. I think it might be fun for us to make a political statement:

Every July (during the Conservative heartland's premiere event "The Calgary Stampede"), large groups of us take our business to countries where brothels are legal, like Nevada, Mexico, New Zealand, eastern Australia, Germany, and Brazil. We make a pledge to boycott the Stampede until we can poon again.

 

[DingDongDiggler]

new laws in vic

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/for-those-on-the-ground-sex-work-rules-still-hazy-1.1653972

good read from tc regarding new laws

 

[Fullhouse]

Every July (during the Conservative heartland's premiere event "The Calgary Stampede"), large groups of us take our business to countries where brothels are legal, like Nevada, Mexico, New Zealand, eastern Australia, Germany, and Brazil. We make a pledge to boycott the Stampede until we can poon again.

What a brilliant idea --- I wish I would have thought of that..................................not.

It's one thing to go on vacation to a different country and partake in a bit of pooning while there, but to spend our hard earned money on airfare and hotel rooms just so we can fuck some chick seems a little expensive............. He*l, for the price of that journey you could see at least 10 of our lovely local ladies, and have enough left to buy a box of Timmy's donuts as a bribe to a cop that may catch you in the act -------- (I have yet to figure out how the cops are going to do that, unless you're one of those outdoor enthusiasts that likes to screw some SP in public, like on the stairs to the library or maybe in front of the totem poles in Stanley Park.)

And boycotting the Calgary Stampede ---- wow, that will really piss off the Conservatives

I don't know how many pooners from around here, the Lower Mainland, visit the Stampede, but I know it's not anywhere near 100%.
So, lets say 500 go to get laid in other countries and boycott the Stampede..............(I know that 500 guess is about 495 to high.)

Out of a total attendance of around 1.3 Million at the Stampede - suddenly they are going to be short by about 500.- a financial disaster. ...(that's like having one empty seat at the Rose Bowl game)

Well, you might as well just lock the doors, throw away the keys and never again attempt to have another Stampede, 'cause it'll break the city and the Conservative Party.....................yah, right!!!

 

[Alabama Blaze]

Guys,

BP, LeoList,Craigslist and fake ad stings are the most likey course of action that will be used to bust clients under the new laws. Stings are by far the best means of catching clients since the police have custody of entire chain of evidence and witnesses.

The problem with investigating and raids is good lawyers have more avenues for getting the clients off the hook on minor technicalities that exist when don't have control over wintness or evidence. Circumstantial evidence is always riskier in court. Given this Bill is largely political, they need good press and easy convictions.

As far adversting websites go, I'm not sure how they plan to sucessfully prosecute anyone. Most of the websites in Canada are not hosted in Canada. The Canadian Govenment would have to convince foreign counties to accept and abide by Canadian laws. Aside from the US, UK, Mexico, India and Sweden, not many other countries will cooperate with the Canadian govenment unless there's a more serious crime being committed.

Peter McKay forgot that it's called the World Wide Web.

 

[bentwoody]

Bill c36 says that perb. along with ers or leolist, backpage and every other advertisement site is illegal, so why is this site still accessible? is there some kind of loophole?

 

[Cock Throppled]

Guys,

BP, LeoList,Craigslist and fake ad stings are the most likey course of action that will be used to bust clients under the new laws. Stings are by far the best means of catching clients since the police have custody of entire chain of evidence and witnesses.

The problem with investigating and raids is good lawyers have more avenues for getting the clients off the hook on minor technicalities that exist when don't have control over wintness or evidence. Circumstantial evidence is always riskier in court. Given this Bill is largely political, they need good press and easy convictions.

Well, you can forget about easy convictions if they are placing fake ads to lure people.

Lawyers will have a field day screaming "entrapment." Not only will every case get tossed, it will generate terrible press for any police force attempting it.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Well, you can forget about easy convictions if they are placing fake ads to lure people.

Lawyers will have a field day screaming "entrapment." Not only will every case get tossed, it will generate terrible press for any police force attempting it.

entrapment is not necessarily illegal in canada. the following bit from wikipedia gives a layman's interpretation of the circumstances under which it can be used as a defence

The Supreme Court of Canada developed the doctrine of entrapment in three major decisions: R. v. Amato, [1982] 2 S.C.R. 418, R. v. Mack, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 903, and R. v. Barnes, [1991] 1 S.C.R. 449. There are two different forms of entrapment in Canadian law.

The first type of entrapment, "random virtue testing", occurs when the police offer an individual the opportunity to commit a crime without reasonable suspicion that either that individual, or the place where that individual is located, is associated with the criminal activity under investigation. If police do have such a reasonable suspicion, they are still limited to providing only an opportunity to commit the offence.

The second form of entrapment occurs when the police go beyond merely providing an opportunity to commit an offence, and instead actually induce the commission of the offence. Some factors a court may consider when deciding whether police have induced the offence include the type of crime being investigated, whether an average person would have been induced, the persistence and number of attempts made by the police, the type of inducement used (e.g. fraud, deceit, reward), and the existence of expressed or implied threats.

The question of entrapment is only considered after there has been a finding of guilt. If, after finding the accused guilty, the court determines that the accused was entrapped, the court will enter a judicial stay of proceedings. In effect, this is similar to an acquittal.

Some examples of entrapment are as follows:
1.A police officer encourages a person to commit a crime so that the officer can have them prosecuted for that crime.
2.The greater the degree of entrapment by the police officer, the more likely the court will see it as entrapment. See the case R v Bryne [2003]. That is, entrapment is not a substantive defense (R v Sang); i.e. it does not automatically negate the prosecution case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

basically if le only places an ad, then waits for the client to answer the ad, and only answers questions from the client, until the meeting and 'consideration' is provided, then the entrapment is perfectly passive, and cannot be challenged

also note that whether entrapment was used illegally is only determined after the accused is found guilty, then if the judge determines that entrapment was illegally applied, a stay of proceedings gets entered

'lawyers' are well aware of whether this can or cannot be used as a defence - as are crown prosecutors. if the crown prosecutor thinks there's a snowball's chance in hell of the guilty findings being stayed, he won't even bring it to court

but the court angle doesn't matter a rat's arse - once you are cuffed and charges are laid, your name and the nature of the charges are public, and your reputation is ruined in the eyes of your family, employer and the community

 

[Alabama Blaze]

Well, you can forget about easy convictions if they are placing fake ads to lure people.

Lawyers will have a field day screaming "entrapment." Not only will every case get tossed, it will generate terrible press for any police force attempting it.

The police that perform these stings are well trained and they fully understand what would constitute entrapment under Canadian law. The Canadian police have used these tactics to catch child predators which have held-up well in prosecutions. It's why they wait for money to change hands before making an arrest.

The standards for entrapment are much higher in the US but all of their BP stings have been massively successful. Entrapment was better defense strategy 15 - 20 years ago. People used entrapment too often and this has led to police working more closely with the crown prosecutors office to make sure their stings operations are conducted in way that ensures high conviction rates.

Your best bet is sticking with reliable SP's.

 

[hornygandalf]

Bill c36 says that perb. along with ers or leolist, backpage and every other advertisement site is illegal, so why is this site still accessible? is there some kind of loophole?

How are they going to close them down when they are hosted offshore? Set up a firewall similar to China? That will go down well.
And the sites have sections for legitimate adverts as well... and it is questionable whether the escort adverts are even breaking any laws now.
So... it isn't going to be that easy to simply take the sites down.

 

[Alabama Blaze]

How are they going to close them down when they are hosted offshore? Set up a firewall similar to China? That will go down well.
And the sites have sections for legitimate adverts as well... and it is questionable whether the escort adverts are even breaking any laws now.
So... it isn't going to be that easy to simply take the sites down.

Peter McKay already said that it would be up to the courts to decide how to enforce the "3rd party advertising laws."

Translation: It will be up to the crown prosecutors to decide how or if they will enforce the advertising provisions. Now magazine may be first publication to challenge this provision.

This may be the first provision to face a constitutional challenge in the courts. Sun media may also be issuing a challenge.

 

[hornygandalf]

Peter McKay already said that it would be up to the courts to decide how to enforce the "3rd party advertising laws."

Translation: It will be up to the crown prosecutors to decide how or if they will enforce the advertising provisions. Now magazine may be first publication to challenge this provision.

This may be the first provision to face a constitutional challenge in the courts. Sun media may also be issuing a challenge.

Yes... as they have an identifiable place of business in Canada. Easier target than a website based overseas with servers outside the country.

 

[Cock Throppled]

The police that perform these stings are well trained and they fully understand what would constitute entrapment under Canadian law. The Canadian police have used these tactics to catch child predators which have held-up well in prosecutions. It's why they wait for money to change hands before making an arrest.

The standards for entrapment are much higher in the US but all of their BP stings have been massively successful. Entrapment was better defense strategy 15 - 20 years ago. People used entrapment too often and this has led to police working more closely with the crown prosecutors office to make sure their stings operations are conducted in way that ensures high conviction rates.

Your best bet is sticking with reliable SP's.

The police are not "well trained" in these types of stings.

In fact, they are very rare in Canada, and usually applied to drug cases or the "Mr Big" scenario, and that tactic is heavily under fire now. Virtually all raids on MP's get thrown out, too.

Police are not going to waste time on placing ads, setting up a location to lure dudes and then spring out of the next room to take down grandpa or some nerd looking for sex. That's US "Cops" TV stuff. And on Cops we never see whether convictions actually happen. By placing an ad offering sex the police would be laughed out of court by almost any judge

When gangsters are killing people on the streets no police force is going to want to look stupid wasting time on entrapping guys by officers offering sex.

 

[Alabama Blaze]

Yes... as they have an identifiable place of business in Canada. Easier target than a website based overseas with servers outside the country.

Unfortunately since the burden of enforcing 3rd party laws have been left to the crown prosecutors it may be a very long time before anyone knows how these laws will be enforced. The crown could sit on it for 2-3 years before acting.

There's nothing fast about the Canadian crown. They're appointed versus elected officials like DA's in the US. There's no pressure for them to act on C-36 laws right away.

It may be years before anyone knows what the crown will do.

 

[adventurer32]

I was told to bring an envelope, a device with image recording capability, a vibrator, a flashlight, a helmet, and an adult movie script each time I visit. I can do that. Bill c36 is a game changer.