Attawapiskat - Canadas Great Shame
- Thread starter Fudd
- Start date
I'm sorry, but 11 minutes of my life watching Ezra Levant on video is too much to ask, however informed he may be on the topic. There must be some other way....
The obvious solution to the woes of the Attawapiskat peoples:
1) Casinos
2) Free Trade zone for tobacco, alcohol and firearms
3) Coal mining
4) International war games exercises
5) Nuclear reactors
6) Nuclear waste land fills
and my personal favourite, 7) Legalized whorehouses
There are always solutions to problems if you just open your eyes. Merry Christmas!!!!
1) Casinos
2) Free Trade zone for tobacco, alcohol and firearms
3) Coal mining
4) International war games exercises
5) Nuclear reactors
6) Nuclear waste land fills
and my personal favourite, 7) Legalized whorehouses
There are always solutions to problems if you just open your eyes. Merry Christmas!!!!
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Put it this way, if the economy in Vancouver collapsed and there was 50% unemployement, but in the rest of the country unemployment was some nominal amount, say 5%, would you consider it reasonable and the "right" of vancouver residents to stay where they are and expect the rest of the country to support them? Or would you think it more reasonable to expect them to move to other parts of the country where there is employment available?
Of course you know the answer to that question, there are plenty of rural communities where exactly this has happened in the past, and in those communities when people can no longer support themselves they move to places where they can.
That is a weak argument. Many people can and do support themselves in the north just fine. If you want to exert sovereignty, exert sovereignty with them. Remember that people have been living there and supporting themselves on a subsistance lifestyle for generations since the icesheets retreated at the end of the ice age. What they can't do is live a modern lifestyle with nothing more than that subsistance income to support themselves. It simply is not going to work.
And in any case, the traditional method of exerting sovereignty is with a big gun. It doesn't matter who is living where, when push comes to shove the ones with the biggest guns are allways going to win.
I wouldn't move to the north because there is no work for me there in my profession. I live where I can find work to support myself, and that happens to be Vancouver. Perhaps a few other major cities, but not many other places in Canada. It would be the height of stupidity of me to move out to the sticks that just so that someone can be seen to be living there. If not Vancouver or the few other cities that offer opportunity in my profession, then I would look to the US or Europe. But the point is I would move to where I could find work, and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect every other Canadian to do the same. And I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying for people who are not prepared to do that.
No, people don't care what happens to people at the mine. The employers (and their managers) do, because if they didn't their employees would leave and production would stop (yes, it is that simple). Obviously the problem is solvable because the non-native communities in the area are solving them. People living in the north in other countries don't appear to have this problem. How hard is it for the leaders of the local communities to learn from their neighbors, or hire a professional to deal with it? I am not really interested in hearing excuses or fingerpointing because I know that the situation should not be happening.
I agree that money would be an issue in the long term, but the fundamental problem in those communities is that they do not generate enough income on their own to support themselves nor do they have realistic plans to address that issue, other than going to the federal government (or whoever else happens to be handy and have money) cap in hand or with some other demand. If someone could come up with a plan whereby these communities could become self supporting then by all means pump money in to achieve that goal.
Right and so you've talked to all of these people personally and KNOW that they don't want to do that? You seem to forget that they lack a proper educational system and could've got one if the ministers and the govt quit talking about giving them one versus actually doing it. They could've had these problems solved a long time ago, had the oil company cleaned up their mess. Pretty damn simple, it's a little hard to get a sustainable job if you don't have proper education don'tcha think? I've listened to Chuck Strahl and the rest of the idiots keep promising them a school for years. How hard is it for you to comprehend ... no proper education = no job.
Proper education = Job. What job ? Until de Beers came along what jobs were there ? Nothing on the reserve, so off to Timmins. Once there it would seem most opted to stay there or moved on to greener pastures. Living by "traditional" means is not working for probably most Native Canadians and a lot of reserves are sitting on non-productive land, so what is your solution ? Here's another question. Considering all the "We" the countries, "First Nations" having to be unified to get what we are owed, where is the unity when it comes to helping each other if the Gov't doesn't step up to the plate ?
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The only unity you will find is in the executive councils of 'First Nations', with their very expensive brand new trucks, nice houses, very expensive 'ceremonial blankets' and lucrative salaries. I used to live close to a reserve on Van Isl. and you could easily see where the Federal money was being spent on the tribe. The council and family members of the band were quite well-to-do, with nice houses and all the bable and trinkets, retreats to Hawaii for 'training' etc, while just down that same street, were literally shacks and hovels, trailers and trashed houses that haven't seen a paint job in much less any maintenance at all.
The ministry has spent 90 million over the last 10 years? Where the fuck did that go? That is a ton of money for 1500 people, no matter where you are living or the conditions, and there needs to be a serious inquest as to who has control of this money, who is this money going to, and what are they spending it on. Some poster said that Canada owes the Natives tonnes of cash....I think it's already been paid, in my humble opinion, and to further that thought, how many billions have been wasted on a now defunct and disfunctional system and how many more billions will be tossed into this black hole?
It's unsustainable, and in this economic climate, and considering the lack of accountability of the ministry, the mp's and mla's, the reserve councils, ruling chiefs....and the waste of billions of dollars that could have by now paid for housing, education and care for those who really need it to build a life, to finally heal the wounds.
'First Nations' people have to get past the residential schools, the 'rape' of villages and the land by those who conquered their ancestors or there won't be any solutions to any of the problems as long as the 'victimized native' flag is waved.
It's a corrupt system, and it's not working for the benefit of everyone, other than for the ministers involved and the ruling council chief class. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but for everyone's sake, including our children's sake and future....but it's time to dismantle the Indian affairs ministry, stop the ridiculous waste of billions more dollars on this welfare state, and sit down with native leaders and hammer out a new solution.
Sounds simple, and I may be wrong on so many points, and completely out of my mind on others....but this bullshit has to stop. It can't go on this way, too many people are suffering, and from what I saw in the reports, this is just disgusting the way these people are living like up there, and with that kind of money being spent every year...9 million every year for the past 10 years, give or take...for a tiny little community way up north...something smells and it isn't the shitters.
Where did the money go? Follow that trail. DeBeers they are a private company not known to treat the locals well...remember South Africa....and that's private money, so fuck following that. Follow the public money.
If the 'First Nations' group cry foul, and the Chiefs get all huffy about an auditor general's inquest into where the buck goes and stops....then where there's smoke there is fire.
Your Vancouver example is thoroughly non-comparable. Many people who own their homes do not leave small towns. In the case of a truly remote community like Attawapiskat it would be even more of an impediment.
http://apihtawikosisan.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/dealing-with-comments-about-attawapiskat/
As to your thoughtful question about "where the fuck" the money went, I posted this link earlier. The auditor is NOT the Auditor General and is costing $300K per year.
I don't see it. I find most of the information posted here very informative, including yours. And just because Ezra Levant is sometimes right about issues, doesn't mean I want to watch a smug, whiny, self-satisfied prick on a video for 11 minutes, any more than I want to watch a "liberal" like Oprah Winfrey.Typical Liberal/Socialist reaction to a difficult to solve problem once the "media opportunity" is over.
Thanks for the reply to my post, Al. It just these issues that you have answered and described that makes for a very expensive audit, to rectify these problems and political posturing that's leading and enabling this corruption. It's a system that's riddled with bullshit. Sorry for the crass words that I use, but they illustrate the disgust that I feel when I hear about this shit happening in my country, to people. It has to change, and someone who we voted for, no matter what polictical party, ideology has to grow the balls to make some serious changes.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for reading.
Oh, and not the bands who ought to pay for the audit. It ought to come from the budget of the controlling ministries, federal and provincial and/or territory.
90 million over the last 5 years is not much. It makes a nice headline for the newspapers but it doesn't tell the whole truth.
Governments spend millions on us everyday from schools for our kids, roads for our cars and hospitals for our sick. As I said before the Feds are responsible for First Nations on reserve. So the Feds pay for (From national post)
education per pupil
education infrastructure (maintenan*ce, repair, teacher salaries, etc)
health-care per patient
health-care, infrastruc*ture (clinics, staff, access to services outside the community in the absence of facilities on reserve)
social services (facilitie*s, staff, etc)
infrastruc*ture (maintenan*ce and constructi*on)
a myriad of other services
While the Province pays for most of those services for off-reserve First Nation and non-First Nations. It cost a lot send a kid to school and the Feds pay less per pupil than the Province. Well over half of the funding from INAC goes to education. And to get off topic the Feds have no idea how to do these services or have the in house skill to do so, the Provinces have been doing it for years. But the Provinces don't want to take on the responsibility with transfer payments from the Feds.
People assume that the band decides where the money is spent, that is not the case. Most First Nations do not have self-governance, they are not like cities or mini-Provinces. INAC Ministerial approval of any capital expense is required before a FN can do something. Also add this situation INAC had a third party manager running the show for this First Nations for about 10 years. The Chief and council just took back control a few years ago. This problem wasn't created over night.
According to INAC this FN has a budget of about 5 million for infrastructure, about 3 million of that for housing. That includes repairs and everything else. It cost about $250,000 to built a $80,000 normal house up there. According to reports it is estimated that it will cost $84 million to meet the needs of the community for housing. Yes that is a lot of money but what happens when you ignore the issue for the last 30 years.
Governments spend millions on us everyday from schools for our kids, roads for our cars and hospitals for our sick. As I said before the Feds are responsible for First Nations on reserve. So the Feds pay for (From national post)
education per pupil
education infrastructure (maintenan*ce, repair, teacher salaries, etc)
health-care per patient
health-care, infrastruc*ture (clinics, staff, access to services outside the community in the absence of facilities on reserve)
social services (facilitie*s, staff, etc)
infrastruc*ture (maintenan*ce and constructi*on)
a myriad of other services
While the Province pays for most of those services for off-reserve First Nation and non-First Nations. It cost a lot send a kid to school and the Feds pay less per pupil than the Province. Well over half of the funding from INAC goes to education. And to get off topic the Feds have no idea how to do these services or have the in house skill to do so, the Provinces have been doing it for years. But the Provinces don't want to take on the responsibility with transfer payments from the Feds.
People assume that the band decides where the money is spent, that is not the case. Most First Nations do not have self-governance, they are not like cities or mini-Provinces. INAC Ministerial approval of any capital expense is required before a FN can do something. Also add this situation INAC had a third party manager running the show for this First Nations for about 10 years. The Chief and council just took back control a few years ago. This problem wasn't created over night.
According to INAC this FN has a budget of about 5 million for infrastructure, about 3 million of that for housing. That includes repairs and everything else. It cost about $250,000 to built a $80,000 normal house up there. According to reports it is estimated that it will cost $84 million to meet the needs of the community for housing. Yes that is a lot of money but what happens when you ignore the issue for the last 30 years.
Long-term yes, but moving a bunch of people with no jobs skills to the city wouldn't help. You would just be creating slums in the city. A bunch of poor, unemployed, high crime, drugs, etc. in the core. You are starting to see that now in a lot of the major Western Canadian cities.
Also add in the fact the culture shock of moving from rural northern to a city, many can't deal with it.
You need a long-term plan that include job training. You need the Feds, Provinces, city and Aboriginal leaders to sit down and develop an plan.
