Are Asian pooners caught between a rock (Asian SPs) & a hard place (Western SPs)?

[tantalizeme]

Earlier today I responded to a fellow pooner (probably Asian) who had a crappy experience with an Asian SP with whom I had a terrific experience. A difference like night and day. Can`t help speculating why. https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-G-R-E-E-K-with-a-ravishable-sweetheart/page2

I`ll share my thoughts in 3 parts (Part II & III may take me a day or two, due to other priorities):

I. The beauty standards by which Chinese men tend to judge Chinese women
II. The trouble Chinese pooners often have with Chinese SPs
III. The trouble Chinese pooners often have with Western SPs (previously discussed here: https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?147705-white-girls-dont-like-asian-guys)

Two caveats.
•I love Chinese culture and have many Chinese contacts, both male and female. That`s why I focus here on Chinese attitudes, though what I say also tends to be true of several other Asian cultures.

•I believe this to be an important topic, though it`s of course very controversial. The truth often is. Nothing I say should be construed as having a racist intent.

•What I`m going to say about Asian pooners is perhaps true of a majority or perhaps only a substantial minority; I don`t really know. But I realize there`re almost always many exceptions to generalizations about any large group of people.


Part I: The beauty standards by which Chinese men tend to judge Chinese women

Western and Chinese men judge Chinese women by very different beauty standards. My own observations jive completely with research data provided by a reputable website that`s a goldmine of information for anyone planning to live in China. http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/understanding-chinese-women.htm

Here`s a description of Chinese men`s ideal of Chinese women:

According to numerous news media reports as well as an online survey conducted by www.sina.com involving more than 5,000 respondents, Chinese standards of female attractiveness emphasize height (165 to 170cm), an oval face, long straight hair, wafer-like thinness, a pale complexion, a complete absence of moles and freckles, large eyes with a double-fold or crease in the eyelids, and a pronounced bridge of the nose (China Daily, 2005; Chen, 2008). Unfortunately, most of these features are not characteristically Chinese at all. The average height of Chinese women is 160cm (about 5` 3") as compared to 170cm (about 5` 7") for Chinese men.

A revealing human interest story featured on the All-China Women`s Federation website about two American-born Chinese (ABC) girls studying in Beijing, highlights their difficulties adjusting to cultural differences in regard to both weight and skin tone. The article notes that whereas both girls wore small sizes in the United States, in China they are considered "fat" (and are readily told so by both friends and casual acquaintances) and can only fit into large sizes (Martin, 2007). Whereas their skin tone would be considered healthy-looking by American standards, here they are both regarded as being way too "dark."

What all of this amounts to is that the vast majority of Chinese women are extremely insecure about their physical appearance, far more so than their Western counterparts. There is incredible social pressure on Chinese women to be extremely thin and those who don`t meet their culture`s nearly unattainable standards of beauty are reminded of it constantly—by parents, friends, teachers, and commercial advertisements that conspicuously feature either Western models or those of Eurasian ancestry.

There is no doubt that Western and Chinese men maintain very different criteria for determining what constitutes a pretty Chinese girl, and this is actually one of the reasons behind some Chinese girls` attraction to foreign men. Obviously, if you are considered a "little ugly" by men of your own culture and then you come across a Western man who sincerely views and treats you as beautiful, it is understandable that the woman will be highly flattered, perhaps even grateful, and attracted in turn. The cultural difference in perception regarding what constitutes a pretty Chinese girl is so pronounced that one can actually find a public discussion among Chinese men on the China Daily forum titled "Do Foreign Men Have Ugly Chinese Girlfriends?"

 

[connor666]

No offence to the OP, but you just have low and or different standards. As mentioned in previous threads, I just take your looks rating and either subtract 2 or divide by 2.

But I am in 100% agreement with your service and attitude marks.

 

[wilde]

Based on your reviews, your 8 is about my 5. Have you seen any Caucasian SPs in Van so I could remove race as a factor?

That and what connor666 said.

 

[tantalizeme]

II. The trouble Chinese pooners often have with Chinese SPs

As a Chinese man, I find Lucy Liu and bak ling ugly as hell. I am sure many white man will disagree. Actually had my friend in high school, dark slanted eyes and fat, lots of older white men trying to pick her up.

There are a lot of pretty Chinese girls in Vancouver, but most are rich and not in the escorting business. Where as in China, there are lots of beautiful Chinese girls found workin in KTVs and brothels.

I would never poon a Chinese girl in Vancouver, most are aunties or ugly girls that are too lazy to get a job.

No offence to the OP, but you just have low and or different standards. As mentioned in previous threads, I just take your looks rating and either subtract 2 or divide by 2.

But I am in 100% agreement with your service and attitude marks.

Your 8 is about my 5. That and what connor666 said.

Thanks, brothers Ovaltine, connor666 & wilde, for adding grist to my mill. I recall that wilde, especially, has often honored reviews of mine with a forceful protest of my rating for a mature Chinese girl's looks.

Initially I felt chagrin when, shortly after posting a review, contrasting reviews by Asian pooners rolled in—blasting me for looking at a girl through "rose-tinted glasses."

But when this happened almost every time, I began to ask: why this discrepancy? Clearly, my Asian brothers like wilde, conner666, Ovaltine, ForeignKid and others are as honest in their criticism of an SP as I am in my praise.

I suspect one reason why Western guys like me are often more warmly welcomed by an Asian micro girl, and perhaps receive better service, is because the girl knows: a Western guy is far more likely to appreciate her than a Chinese guy. He's also more likely to find her looks exotically appealing, even if she's in her 30s or 40s.

And if, in addition, he's expressive about his appreciation, using either basic Pooner Mandarin or body language (or both), she'll do her best to reciprocate. It's not rocket science to know that a woman who feels desired, appreciated and respected is far more motivated to please.

Actually, I feel sorry for many Asian guys looking for sex or romance in the West (including some of my own acquaintances).

Most young guys of whatever ethnic background—except those who're rich or very handsome—are in a weak bargaining position vis-a-vis the hot babes they desire. But young Asian guys tend to have greater trouble finding GFs because, for various reasons (including height, language, culture, size, prejudice), many Western girls don't want them and many Asian girls get drawn out circulation by Western guys.

And when they get older, Asian guys usually end up locked into a stale marriage after finally snaring a (usually not-so-hot) woman, but only by desperately trying to meet all her conditions—for marriage, having kids and material status.

So disproportionately many Asian guys, whether married or not, supplement their rather dismal romantic life with pooning.

But, I'd argue, Asian pooners are between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, they can’t generally appreciate the mostly 30+ Asian SPs that come to Canada, precisely to get away from feeling discarded and disrespected in Asian sex markets.

On the other hand, Western SPs are—though certainly with exceptions—not as service-minded as Asian SPs, plus usually at least twice as expensive, and often give Chinese guys that “small boat in a big pond” kind of feeling.

 

[connor666]

You can eat all the McDicks you want and fool yourself that you are at Black & Blue.

And since you love to make sweeping generalizations on the demographics of a whole race and city's pooning scene.

One can extrapolate that your tastes are indicative of someone who must be out of shape and unattractive. Thus, they are not able to have a good time with a lady under 30 as she is not mature enough to look past the earlier stated shortcomings. I mean, simple math for me dictates that I would rather poon once with a decent looking lady in the 220 to 250 an hour range and under 25, than have 1.5 romps with ladies of subpar looks.

Plus, maybe there are pooners out there such as myself that don't need to pay for an emotional connection. We are the type that place a heavier appreciation on looks.

But hey, whatever floats your boat, lipstick on a pig?

 

[violetblake]

If you'd like a woman's opinion on the particular situation you're talking about (which of course is only speculation since I wasn't there and haven't met either parties involved), you mentioned, tantalizeme:

"There could be various explanations for why Cathy was motivated to make me happy and not motivated to make you happy. Most likely, you caught her at a time when she wasn't at her best—or, far less likely, she caught you at a time when you weren't at your best."

SPs, being human, certainly have bad days. However, I'd say that if we're talking about a well-reviewed SP who has great experiences with almost every client, then she knows how to deal with working while having a bad day, or if she can't make herself in a better mood she just doesn't work on a bad day. There are unfortunately quite a few rude, unhygienic, or disrespectful people out there, and even the best SPs may have a hard time putting up with that, as would anyone.

"You're known as a superb stud, ForeignKid—easily proven, if proof were needed, by the fact that you get offered BBFS where others don't. (Didn't your BBFS report of Ava get you banned for a while, I think for having multiple handles? Glad you're back!)"

I don't know the story here, but multiple handles? That's sketchy, and says something about his character, possibly explaining the situation.

"Why would she tell you 4 times to cum quickly!? My suspicion is that your vigorous pumping gave her so much pleasure that she got scared. Sometimes, when a woman's enjoyment level goes through the roof, she's afraid she might lose her mind."

This makes no sense, lol. Trust me, if a woman's enjoying herself, she won't want to stop lol. I also think that the rest of this fellow's review indicated she was not enjoying herself. Therefore, his "vigorous pumping" may have been hurting her. She should have probably suggested another position, or sexily asked him to be gentle, however it's unfortunately frowned upon in our society for women to be assertive, so for a lot of girls that's hard for them to do.

Tantalizeme, you sound like a respectful, nice person. And the others who had a good time with this girl sounded like nice people too. (From what you can tell over the internet anyway lol). THAT'S why you guys got service. Yes, an SP should give good service to everybody of course, however we are human and some people really push those limits. Like I said, I wasn't there for this situation obviously, so it's only my opinion, but hopefully it gives you some perspective

 

[godel]

Tantalizeme, you sound like a respectful, nice person.

Funny you say that. He has always struck me as a borderline mysogynist. A sociopathic Niles Crane if you will.

I agree with connor666. To me, he is a classic case study in cognitive dissonance. He desires the company of beautiful women on a regular basis, i.e. champagne tastes, but is fettered by a beer budget. The tension produced by this reality can be reduced by changes in cognitions and behaviors. An example of a change in cognition would be convincing himself that the woman he is with warrants a look rating of 8, when in reality she is a 4. A change in behaviour, as connor666 stated, would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

Again, whatever floats his boat.

 

[violetblake]

Funny you say that. He has always struck me as a borderline mysogynist. A sociopathic Niles Crane if you will.

Well not understanding women does not necessarily equate to misogyny. Besides, it's hard for the two genders to understand each other sometimes. Our society engrains a lot of stereotypes into us, and I find that the more you believe stereotypes, or the more you think of someone as a gender (or a race, or age, etc), the less you understand them. I always think of people as people first (go figure! lol), and I think that's why I can get along with almost anyone, no matter their age, gender, or culture. There's far fewer differences between the genders than you may think, so when I have an issue with someone, I think of it as that individual, not whatever group that person belongs to. Life is much better that way, lol. But of course there's no excuse for misogyny.

 

[Hoops]

Funny you say that. He has always struck me as a borderline mysogynist. A sociopathic Niles Crane if you will.

give me a break.
Who are you?
I can't believe the judging that goes on here.
This is a review board for men that pay to have sex.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

 

[Sleepmonger]

I agree with connor666. To me, he is a classic case study in cognitive dissonance. He desires the company of beautiful women on a regular basis, i.e. champagne tastes, but is fettered by a beer budget. The tension produced by this reality can be reduced by changes in cognitions and behaviors. An example of a change in cognition would be convincing himself that the woman he is with warrants a look rating of 8, when in reality she is a 4. A change in behaviour, as connor666 stated, would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

I like this statement, it’s cute. How can you be sure that there has been such a change in cognition? He seems pretty consistent with his rating system, maybe his 8 has always been your 4. What is an 8 and a 4 anyways? Aren’t these rating systems defined by the person giving them? I know for a fact the average person on here's 10 is my 8 and my 10 is likely their 8 as well. Why can't we have different tastes?

From what I’ve seen of tant's posts I'm not entirely sure where the misogynist comment comes from. This entire message board has a slight air of misogyny about it due to its general nature, but I don’t see tant's postings exuding a level above that which is inherent to the forum. Perhaps our definitions differ

 

[jesuschrist]

Actually, I feel sorry for many Asian guys looking for sex or romance in the West (including some of my own acquaintances).

Most young guys of whatever ethnic background—except those who're rich or very handsome—are in a weak bargaining position vis-a-vis the hot babes they desire. But young Asian guys tend to have greater trouble finding GFs because, for various reasons (including height, language, culture, size, prejudice), many Western girls don't want them and many Asian girls get drawn out circulation by Western guys.

It's a sorry world we live in, isn't it Tant? I mean, for your "brothers" of an ethnic background, as surely they must be very appreciative of the pity you have for them having it so rough compared to the white dude who is the one all women, no matter the colour, prizes above all.

Since you are so daring, then allow me daresay - that your honesty is truly unabashed and shameless where lesser narcissism would forbid for fear of a healthy self-shaming. So as reward for your unabashed honesty, I'll volunteer an answer to your question if Asian pooners are caught between a rock and hard place - and my answer is no.

Virtually every woman who spreads her legs for pay is not spreading her legs because she is expecting that the next man through the door is going to drive her wild with sexual desire or even infatuation. She spreads her legs because it is her chosen profession and that means earning money - and if you are black, white, yellow, green, blue, a Jew, a Muslim, a dwarf, ugly and white, even a serial killer, doesn't really matter. Are you going to be a nice client and do you have the money? Well then, good, she'll treat you well, because you pay her rate and she wants you to return for more.

But in all fairness, you didn't even really address your own question. Instead, you widened the topic into a general pity of Asian men (and ethnic men in general) vis-a-vis their white counterpart. How on earth do they cope with females of their own ethnicity who do not want them while so any white men are depleting them from availability, meanwhile the white women of course reject them also? How do they cope with the eventual listless marriages they get themselves into, with the only hope of reprieve is to poon - and only find old asian women they find ugly?

To be your friend and "ethnic", I imagine one would have to be endowed with an insurmountable self-loathing. But that's okay, really, I mean, who am I to say what makes one happy and who one should choose as a friend? Frankly, I couldn't care less. What I do care about is that hopefully your post was less about your inquiry and more about an inquiry into yourself.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

tantalizme, there must be some kind of reward pardner...

'hornet's nest stirrer of the year' or something like that... :yield:

standby for more incoming!

 

[dickencyder]

I would love to read tant's review of:

Quintessential Taylor
Shelby Luxx
Alex Adare
Kim Capri
White Unicorn aka Abigail Fine

 

[myselftheother]

give me a break.
Who are you?
I can't believe the judging that goes on here.
This is a review board for men that pay to have sex.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Exactly...I really don;t think he understands what misogyny actually means. Tant has always been a great reviewer, very observant of his experiences, surroundings and has some really interesting adventures. The fact that he has made an effort of speak the language, brings his pooning bag of tricks that enhance his and his host's pleasures speaks of his lack of misogyny...

I also have Asian friends, some female, some male...and mostly the asian dudes have some really strange tastes in what they see as an attractive asian woman. They do like the body type that's built kinda straight up and down, like as a prepubescent would be, or that waif look...which is nice, I guess if you're into that sort of thing.

I found with the asian women I know, who are late 20's- mid 30's, professional in their work, love their independence, have strong opinions...and are sexy, intelligent, funny...and complain that most men of their same ethnic backgrounds are mostly mama's boys, kinda whiny, and mostly interested in their toy cars, jobs, and are so worried about money, money, money...and other guys who get the girls they want, but are too scared to say anything to the girl they like...the asian dudes I'm friends with are all still living with mum and dad until they get married...some of these fellas are over 30, mostly mid 30's. Some just said they never wanna leave home, as they don't want to upset mum by leaving the nest....they've never grown up to be independent men. Whereas Canadian, or Western fellas have their own place, most of us have been on our own for ages already, have been independent of the family home, mom's apron strings...and chicks dig that. We've already have life experience, confidence...

Anyway, it's all in the eye of the beholder...and girls like guys who have their shit together, on their own, as men...not boys with unreal expectations.

 

[jesuschrist]

I also have Asian friends, some female, some male...and mostly the asian dudes have some really strange tastes in what they see as an attractive asian woman. They do like the body type that's built kinda straight up and down, like as a prepubescent would be, or that waif look...which is nice, I guess if you're into that sort of thing.

I found with the asian women I know, who are late 20's- mid 30's, professional in their work, love their independence, have strong opinions...and are sexy, intelligent, funny...and complain that most men of their same ethnic backgrounds are mostly mama's boys, kinda whiny, and mostly interested in their toy cars, jobs, and are so worried about money, money, money...and other guys who get the girls they want, but are too scared to say anything to the girl they like...the asian dudes I'm friends with are all still living with mum and dad until they get married...some of these fellas are over 30, mostly mid 30's. Some just said they never wanna leave home, as they don't want to upset mum by leaving the nest....they've never grown up to be independent men. Whereas Canadian, or Western fellas have their own place, most of us have been on our own for ages already, have been independent of the family home, mom's apron strings...and chicks dig that. We've already have life experience, confidence...

Anyway, it's all in the eye of the beholder...and girls like guys who have their shit together, on their own, as men...not boys with unreal expectations.

The men who are living with their parents have their equivalent in the women who are also living with their parents. You just need to know where to look. They can be fobs, hongers or CBC. The asian women who you speak to who complain about those who live with their parents are actually the minority, the vast majority are living with their parents too. Those doing the complaining are fully westernized and are likely to be speaking to you as they perceive you to be western, so they know they will have a compassionate ear. Independence from parents is how in western ideals one is judged to be "mature". In the east, that is not so - in fact - "maturity" is seen as the willful desire to fulfill the wishes of one's parents who brought you in to this world - a filial responsibility. To not do so is to throw everything parents have done into their face, an abject rejection of their whole being and why they and you exist.

It is not true that when children, whether male or female, continue living with their parents into adulthood, risk becoming infantilized adults. That might be factually true in Canada, US and western Europe. Were you to spend time in Korea or China or Vietnam, etc., you would see it very uncommon for children not to live with their parents. You would instead see that they live with their parents, helping to pay for the household, until marriage - at which time they usually move out but not necessarily, the new wife may move in and become part of the son's family. In fact, this happens not just in Asia, but Arabian countries, African countries, Hispanic countries, and parts of Eastern Europe.

 

[wilde]

Thanks, brothers Ovaltine, connor666 & wilde, for adding grist to my mill. I recall that wilde, especially, has often honored reviews of mine with a forceful protest of my rating for a mature Chinese girl's looks.

Holy mother of god. Congratulations buddy, you have everything figured out, it seems. But why do you keep dodging? I asked you if you have seen any Caucasian SPs so we could compare our ratings for looks and remove race in the equation but you tiptoed around that question. I wonder why?

It's ok to see SPs who are in their 40s and pretty plain Jane, just don't try to convince the world they are attractive. I guess one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

 

[SFMIKE]

Wilde, being one of the most intelligent members on here, I suspect you already know the answer to your question, as well as the reason for the answer.

However, if one of the listed ladies were to drop her price point down into Maggie's range, sit back and prepare to read the longest post in PERB history. It would be very interesting.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Wilde, being one of the most intelligent members on here, I suspect you already know the answer to your question, as well as the reason for the answer.

However, if one of the listed ladies were to drop her price point down into Maggie's range, sit back and prepare to read the longest post in PERB history. It would be very interesting.

hah! good one mike... and the longest thread in PERB history as well

 

[tantalizeme]

Thank you for your penetrating analysis of my shortcomings

You can eat all the McDicks you want and fool yourself that you are at Black & Blue.

And since you love to make sweeping generalizations on the demographics of a whole race and city's pooning scene.

One can extrapolate that your tastes are indicative of someone who must be out of shape and unattractive. Thus, they are not able to have a good time with a lady under 30 as she is not mature enough to look past the earlier stated shortcomings. I mean, simple math for me dictates that I would rather poon once with a decent looking lady in the 220 to 250 an hour range and under 25, than have 1.5 romps with ladies of subpar looks.

Plus, maybe there are pooners out there such as myself that don't need to pay for an emotional connection. We are the type that place a heavier appreciation on looks.

But hey, whatever floats your boat, lipstick on a pig?

Right on, brother—I admit I've a habit of extrapolating from my own experience. But being somewhat of a hobby sociologist (I've many hobbies), I'm always open to contrary evidence and curious about relevant social-science research.

As you might not recall, I did preface this thread with the following sentence:

•What I'm going to say about Asian pooners is perhaps true of a majority or perhaps only a substantial minority; I don't really know. But I realize there're almost always many exceptions to generalizations about any large group of people.

Comments by Asian pooners like yourself about "aunties" in micros certainly confirm what I've been saying: you Asian guys have trouble appreciating the loveliness of Asian MILFS—just as Western guys like me often have trouble seeing the loveliness of many Western ladies.

We all experience the world through the lens of our respective cultures. But we can only understand each other's cultures if we dare to talk about each other's differences—which, to a degree, makes generalizing inevitable, don't you think?

 

[tantalizeme]

Wait... why would Western SPs not like Asian clients? The Western SPs I`ve seen all say they get tonnes of Asian clients since it is Vancouver and they all seem to like them just fine...

Yes—Western SPs "get tonnes of Asian clients" and tons of cash. So why wouldn`t they like Asian pooners? I`m sure they do!

Would be interesting to know what proportion of clients of elite Western SPs advertising here are Asian pooners—I`d guess, a much larger proportion than their percentage of the Vancouver population. So far Sexy Melina is the only one I know who has gone on record saying that 60% of her clients are Asian. https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...rls-dont-like-asian-guys/page3&highlight=cbcs

By the way, this thread in the "General Discussion" section—started by an Asian guy and entitled "white girls dont like asian guys"—is a fascinating read. I was quite moved by its poignancy, sometimes not knowing whether to laugh (which I did) or cry (which I didn`t).

I was especially touched by one Asian guy`s report that, in contemporary China, a guy without money has no chance at all to date a hottie—I suppose because of the severe women shortage as a result of sex selection, as well as massive recruitment of hotties by rich guys and by the sex trade...