Another condo fire sale: the trickle becomes a stream.

Cosmo

Riddle's unwrapped enigma
Jul 30, 2003
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A few months back some took issue with my prediction of a minimum of a 40% decline coming in house prices and a 50% decline in condo prices (from the May 2008 highes).

I rambled on about the domino effect of a collapsing economy, pre-sales collapsing, assorted other factors... ultimately leading to a flooding of the market with inventory - which would drive down prices dramatically.

Two weeks ago we had the 'Onni Liquidation'.

Well, the inventory toilet flush continues.

Bowra Group is throwing in the towel on H+H Yaletown after 15 “buyers” refused to complete on their deals.

In true buyer’s-market fashion, and unlike the Onni sale, Bowra’s leaving it to new buyers to name their price… so long as offers are subject free. If interest is weak, sales could come in at even more than 50% off.

Hmmm. Deal or no deal?

The trickle becomes the stream in advance of the springtime flood.

Here is the Global TV clip about the pre-sale buyers walking away from their commitment at H+H Yaletown.

Below that is the liquidation sale flyer.

Sale happens February 7th and 8th, 2009.

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Steven

Well-known member
May 30, 2003
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- and 40% off of the current 'list" price may still be too high - trying to find the new "market" price
 

festealth

Resident Troll
Sep 8, 2005
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(Un)fortunately, probably a huge reason for the massive deduction in prices is caused by the media. I'm not saying it isn't caused by the economy, but if you own a home and hope to sell, hearing all the doom and gloom from everybody will definitely play a role. Owners will start panicking and start cutting prices, then others will try to sell cheaper/quicker than you.... thus we have the snowball effect.
 

chancy4me

Active member
Jun 16, 2003
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around town
(Un)fortunately, probably a huge reason for the massive deduction in prices is caused by the media. I'm not saying it isn't caused by the economy, but if you own a home and hope to sell, hearing all the doom and gloom from everybody will definitely play a role. Owners will start panicking and start cutting prices, then others will try to sell cheaper/quicker than you.... thus we have the snowball effect.

Let the " Blizzard " begin :D
 

InTheBum

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2004
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I love it!

Personally, I want the condo market to collapse...:D ;)
 

Validator

New member
Sep 19, 2008
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Wouldn't mind using the opportinity to upgrade or move closer to vancouver. So I find these threads particularly interesting. I currently am located in tri-cities area - anyone have any advice on strategy for upgrading?
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
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Wouldn't mind using the opportinity to upgrade or move closer to vancouver. So I find these threads particularly interesting. I currently am located in tri-cities area - anyone have any advice on strategy for upgrading?
Yes. Sell now, rent for six months to a year, if you think prices are going to drop, and buy then.
 

Yman

Lord Lickworthy
Jul 10, 2002
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Personally, I want the condo market to collapse...:D ;)
I can appreciate how many people are infuriated by the high prices for real estate... especially in the past few years. However, the senitments expressed by a number of people here are myopic and this collapsing market doesn't really bode well for the overall economy....with the exception of MacDonalds .
 

Cosmo

Riddle's unwrapped enigma
Jul 30, 2003
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Houses appear to be down about 25 -33%

Someone asked me about single family houses. They generally seem to be down about 25% - 33%, although I have seen some higher end homes sell for 50% below asking price.

The latest example sent to me (24% drop in asking price) is for a new development in Surrey.

Here is the copy from the annnouncement.

=========================

RELEASING FINAL PHASE THIS WEEKEND!
HERITANCE - Single Family Homes in Clayton Village, Surrey

PHASE TWO - 1 HOME REMAINS!
$419,000*
(Previously priced at $550,000)


Phase 2 had one home with a 3 bedroom, 2,652 sq ft. house designed from plan A (you can see that floor plan here: http://www.mylasso.com/FileWarehous..._-_A_with_Heritance_Logo_-_18_August_2008.JPG)

And then there was:

FINAL RELEASE - 4 NEW HOMES!
$419,000*
(Previously priced at $550,000)


This release had two different floor plans, Plan A with 2,652 sq ft. and Plan B with 2,493 sq. ft.

Also from the ad copy:

EVERY HOME INCLUDES:

· FINISHED BASEMENT, CARPET AND OPEN PLAY AREA

· FRIDGE, STOVE, MICROWAVE HOOD FAN, DISHWASHER

· DOUBLE GARAGE WITH EXTRA PARKING PAD BESIDE
· LAMINATE FLOOR ON MAIN, CARPET UP AND DOWN

ADD LEGAL BASEMENT SUITE: $18,000

WITH TWO BEDROOMS, FULL BATHROOM AND KITCHEN WITH FRIDGE,
STOVE AND DISHWASHER; ROUGH IN FOR LAUNDRY.


The ad has a virtual tour of a completed home at: http://pixilink.com/tours5/18910-68th-j/

Looks to be a bunch of new homes crowded on a small parcel with little or no yard space.

============================

Not a screaming deal, but the point is single family home developers are now starting to slash asking price as well. Watch for deeper discounting in the coming months.

In addition, 6 months ago you could not find a brand new home in Surrey for under $500,000. The asking price on these is now $419,000 (down from $550,000) and I am sure many will have a final sale price in the 300,000s.

Some may find the price decline slow, but it has only been four months since the financial crunch really took hold. And already we see prices for a BRAND NEW home going from $550,000 down to the $300,000s.
 

Cosmo

Riddle's unwrapped enigma
Jul 30, 2003
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this collapsing market doesn't really bode well for the overall economy....with the exception of MacDonalds .
No it doesn't. It's all interconnected. And that has been my point. That's why I have long countered the popular opinion here that somehow BC will be immune to what is going on around us.

Yeah... it's a beautiful place to live and a lot of people would like to live here.

But that won't exempt us from the tsunami-like storm that developed in the US and spread around the world.

And the impact on our economy will be profound.

Our provincial economy hasn't even begun to experience the shitekicking it's about to receive.
 
Jan 7, 2008
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How in your view do you see townhouses and condos prices fairing around the New west, burnaby area in the next few months?
 

itooam1

"for president!"
Jan 27, 2008
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I say wait another year....i am in the trade(i build your apartments,low rise /highrise and townhouses and homes)In another year all the projects will be completed for the olympics...after the games the olympic village will go on sale and a thousand more places around town and smaller communities....our economy should be at its weakest point after more jobs have been lost and the olympic venue has faded and all everyone will see then is the Debt...we arent near done with the downturn.
 

InTheBum

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2004
3,187
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How in your view do you see townhouses and condos prices fairing around the New west, burnaby area in the next few months?

I see them tanking...with recent (last 2 years) buyers crying in the streets about how much money they have lost on paper! I stand to benefit, but I'm waiting for the market to correct before the housing market does...then jump in! ;) :D ;) :D
 

CODe333

New member
Apr 14, 2008
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Second wave of USA real estate defaults coming

Some people reading this thread may be interested in a small piece by economist Paul Craig Roberts who sees a second tsunami hitting the US in terms of commercial real estate values. That too seems likely to have an impact on Canada. Let's hope not. The article is from his VDARE site (http://www.vdare.com/roberts/090121_real_estate.htm).


"January 21, 2009

Another Real Estate Crisis Is About To Hit
By Paul Craig Roberts

For a picture of the US real estate crisis, imagine New Orleans wrecked by Hurricane Katrina, and before the waters even begin to recede, a second Katrina hits.

The 1,120,000 lost US retail jobs in 2008 are a signal that the second stage of the real estate bust is about to hit the economy. This time it will be commercial real estate—shopping malls, strip malls, warehouses, and office buildings. As businesses close and rents decline, the ability to service the mortgages on the over-built commercial real estate disappears.

The over-building was helped along by the irresponsibly low interest rates, but the main impetus came from the slide of the US saving rate to zero and the rise in household indebtedness. The shrinkage of savings and the increase in debt raised consumer spending to 72% of GDP. The proliferation of malls and the warehouses that service them reflect the rise in consumer spending as a share of GDP.

Like the federal government, consumers spent more than they earned and borrowed to cover the difference. Obviously, this could not go on forever, and consumer debt has reached its limit.

Shopping malls are losing anchor stores, and large chains are closing stores and even going out of business altogether. Developers who borrowed to finance commercial ventures are in trouble as are the holders of the mortgages, derivatives and other financial junk associated with the loans.

The main source of the economic crisis is the infantile belief of US policymakers that an economy could be based on debt expansion. As offshoring moved jobs, incomes, and GDP out of the country, debt expanded to take the place of the missing income. When the offshored goods and services were brought back to be sold to Americans, the trade deficit rose, adding another level of financing for an economy that consumes more than it produces.

The growth of debt has outpaced the growth of real output. Yet, the solution offered by Obama’s economic team is to expand debt further. This is not surprising as Obama’s economic team consists of the very people who brought on the debt crisis. Now they are going to make it worse.

The unexamined question is: Who is going to finance the next wave of debt?

The US budget deficit for fiscal year 2009 already appears to be on a path to $2 trillion, and that is before Obama’s stimulus program. What we are looking at is a $3 trillion budget deficit if Obama’s program is enacted in time to impact the economy this year.

Foreign countries can finance a $500 billion US budget deficit out of their trade surpluses with the US. But foreigners do not have the funds to finance a US budget deficit in the trillions of dollars, and they would not finance such a deficit even if they had the funds. Foreigners are over-weighted in dollar holdings and prefer to lighten their holding than to add to them. America’s economic prospects are dim as are the dollar’s prospects as reserve currency. An annual budget deficit in the trillions of dollars makes the dollar’s prospects appear even dimmer.

The federal government’s likely solution to the debt problem will be to monetize the debt, that is, the government will finance its deficit by printing money. Debt will be inflated away. But for those Americans without jobs or whose incomes do not rise with inflation, life will be cruel.

Life is already cruel for Americans living on retirement savings. Not only has the stock market bust reduced their wealth by half, but also their remaining assets are producing no income. Interest rates are so low that debt instruments produce no income, and there are scant capital gains in the stock market. Retirees are living by consuming their capital.

America’s economic policy of low interest rates and debt expansion bodes ill for everyone living off their savings. Their future prospects are even worse as high inflation will destroy the value of their savings, especially if held in cash or debt instruments, including “safe” US Treasuries.

There are more intelligent ways to try to escape from the current crisis. However, the financial gangsters and their shills that Obama has put in charge of economic policy are thinking only of their own interest. What happens to the American people is not a concern.

A compassionate government would handle the crisis in this way:

The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These “swaps” are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies. The ideology that financial markets were self-regulating allowed illegal gambling free rein. There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers.

The bailout money, instead of being given to favored financial institutions to finance their acquisition of other institutions, should be used to refinance the defaulting mortgages. This would slow, if not stop, the growing inventory of foreclosed properties that is driving down home prices.

The mark-to-market rule should be suspended until the real values of the troubled properties and instruments can be determined. Suspension of the rule would prevent the failure of sound institutions and lessen the need for a bailout.

Interest rates have to be raised in order to encourage saving and to provide incomes to retirees.

To preserve the dollar’s status as reserve currency, a credible policy of reducing both budget and trade deficits must be announced. In the near term the budget deficit can be reduced by $500 billion by withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan and by cutting a bloated defense budget that represents the now unattainable goal of US world hegemony.

The trade deficit can be significantly reduced by bringing offshored jobs back to America. One way to do this is to tax corporations according to the value added to their output that occurs in the US. Corporations that produce their products for US markets abroad would have high tax rates; those that produce domestically would have low tax rates.

This approach to the economic crisis stands in marked contrast with the approach of the gangsters running US economic policy. The gangsters are using the crisis as an opportunity to steal from taxpayers and to finance their misdeeds and exorbitant salaries with Federal Reserve loans. Their shills among economists and the financial press tell the people that the solution is to fatten up the banks with funds so they will resume lending to an over-indebted public that will then return to the shopping malls.

This unrealistic approach to a serious crisis indicates a leadership crisis on top of an economic crisis.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University, and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He was awarded the Legion of Honor by French President Francois Mitterrand. He is the author of Supply-Side Revolution : An Insider's Account of Policymaking in Washington; Alienation and the Soviet Economy and Meltdown: Inside the Soviet Economy, and is the co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice."
 

Yman

Lord Lickworthy
Jul 10, 2002
977
2
0
Vancouver
Doom Alert Doom Alert. The Jehova's are right the end is nigh !!!

Fer Christ's sake, a million and one things can happen in the next few month or years which could make things worse....or better. :mad:
 

Cosmo

Riddle's unwrapped enigma
Jul 30, 2003
504
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RE: Second wave of USA real estate defaults coming

Search my previous posts and you will find a couple of threads covering this. There should also be a youtube link to a 60 minutes story on this as well.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
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RE: Second wave of USA real estate defaults coming

Search my previous posts and you will find a couple of threads covering this. There should also be a youtube link to a 60 minutes story on this as well.
These threads are far to cheerful, here's a link I've been reading daily for about a year or so. The entire purpose of the site is to report on US, and occasionally Canadian real estate woes.

http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

this site even contains a local article on the housing market.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090202.BCCONDO02/TPStory/National?ref=patrick.net
 
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