An interesting calculation

[Feenix]

My mind was wandering today, wondering what the value added to the Vancouver economy by this industry is. I made the following assumptions:

Number of active SPs per day... 600

Average number of visitors per SP... 2

Average donation per visit... $250

Number of days... 365

Annual economic impact to Greater Vancouver... a staggering $109,500,000!!!

Who knows if my estimates are even close, given the Asian meat market, and their lower rates. But low rates will likely offset by increased turnover.

I counted the number of ads on LL, allowed a few extra for other sites, such as Eros, and BP. It would be interesting to learn how close my estimate is.

 

[poonerboi]

I'd venture to guess that most SPs see more than 2 clients per day . But ,seriously, I don't see 600 advertising daily! If that is true, I'm going to start a new advertising site

 

[SkinnyJohn]

If you factor in all the massage parlours, those on seeking arrangements, and street walkers it's possible that it's 600

 

[poonerboi]

Perhaps, but SA girls aren't active daily and SWs are generally only 40-60 a pop (most of which goes straight to a dealer)eace:

 

[johnsmit]

Acctually I don't see it as value added to the economy of vancouver or any city . It just money directed to one thing over another. $250 at a time that a person spends in one place rather then spend in multiple places.
Most of it does get directed back in to the local economy through different Chanel.

Use guys would of spent it on some thing if not on escorts

 

[giaebonyprincess]

I'd venture to guess that most SPs see more than 2 clients per day . But ,seriously, I don't see 600 advertising daily! If that is true, I'm going to start a new advertising site

Why do guys always think we see more than 2 a day. I think 2 a day would be perfect for me.

There are a lot of costs when working independent....A LOT!!!

 

[westwoody]

There are always guys who think they know all about the business. They have no factual data about revenue, costs or hours worked. Is the woman supporting a family, does she have another job, is she going to school?

Doesn't stop them from making assinine assumptions.

 

[burcs]

Is the woman supporting a family, does she have another job, is she going to school?

Doesn't stop them from making assinine assumptions.

This isn't what's being debated. No one is saying that SPs make a ton of money. There's no need to get defensive.

There were a lot of vague assumptions made that I think was on the generous side. But I'd imagine it to be higher than 50 million still. .

 

[JonnyBoi]

In economics, people (government, economists, tax revenue people) always assumes some "dark economy" or underground money is in play.

Could be as benign as baby sitting, grass cutting and offering tutoring help, to under the table labour work (warehouse and construction) and of course, drugs and sex.

I don't know the models but I think the active SP and work days assumption are slightly exaggerated. No one is arguing about their value add to our society though, economically or otherwise ( I find most SP's are great listeners and most of the ones I've seen are working towards health care/education/counselling.. Sometimes I am taken aback by the poignant questions they ask me... It's a therapy, but fun!! Lol) I wonder how many families are kept together because of them.

Just random musings, haha.

 

[take8easy]

Very few threads stay on course for too long.

All Feenix tried to say (and burcs opined) was how much financial impact this hobby has. It might or might not have a direct impact like other services, but a big amount of money does change hands for sure.
He is not suggesting all of the SP's see more than two.
He is not arguing that SP's do not have operational expenses, family, educational fees etc. He is not suggesting that these girls are out there just raking money.

In my opinion he is just suggesting that a huge amount of money is changing hands in this hobby. Even if you take a conservative approach of say 200 SP's active a day, making $400/day by seeing two or three clients comes to over (200 x 400 x 365) 29 million dollars in a year. (On a funny note, add $80 thousand during a leap year).

You can argue if that money is helping the economy or not, but you can't deny that, that is a HUGE sum of money. Again, on a funny note, imagine escort fee being taxable, at 12% it would be around 4 million dollars of tax money!!! (but do not tell that to Christy Clark or Mr Horgan).
No wait, only GST will apply on it, if I am not wrong, so it would be around 1.5 million a year.

So just chill, he is just trying to guesstimate the money spent on this hobby.

T8E

 

[badbadboy]

600 maybe the number seen on the usual places that we all look but in my estimation that number swells during the month upwards of a few thousand.

Some will work last week of the month to make rent, many are under employed as baristas, wait staff etc, some have books and University $ to pay, some are paying for their degrees and some work periodically to support their lifestyle. Lots of pay for play via dating sites, CL etc.

The bulk of the unseen do not regularly advertise and request no reviews too.

 

[Feenix]

I counted the number of ads placed on LL over a 24 hour period, deducted something for duplications, added the same number for other sites such as BP, Van People, Eros, and any number of small rarely viewed sites.

Believe it or not, there were just shy of 600 ads over 24 hours on LL yesterday (6 pages @ 99 per page). That was a surprise to me.

I'd venture to guess that most SPs see more than 2 clients per day . But ,seriously, I don't see 600 advertising daily! If that is true, I'm going to start a new advertising site

 

[westwoody]

Sorry I was replying to Gia.

 

[summerbreeze]

numbers look a bit high both in number and in ave price per visit

hard to say regarding average per day, this market does have segments

certain amount of this money is from out of town visitors which means it trickles into the local economy as a benefit

a percentage of these providers pay tax which has local benefits as well, they pay rent and contribute to utility companies

be interesting to know what the actual impact on local economy is as well as cost to community, law enforcement, related health costs etc

indirect benefit is the concept that a working person is someone not extracting money from UI or welfare as well, while most providers would no doubt just work in a different sector, some might be on social assistance

whatever the actual numbers, it provides employment for a small sector of our workforce which in a free enterprise economy is a good thing, more importantly is that it is a profitable business in that the costs vs the price provide enough margin that even the most modest providers can earn. unlike other ventures where they might be working most of the time just to pay the rent and other overhead and putting small amounts in their pocket or even losing money

other than the spa business in town, most should be able to turn a profit

 

[hankmoody]

Doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers, it's still a pile of cash the government's doesn't get it's greedy mitts on.
Hard to believe they'll be profiting off of mary jane first.

 

[Feenix]

CRA doesn't give a tinker's dam if the ladies earn their money from serving tables, or serving Johns. It just wants its share of the pie. A working lady can, it all seriousness, enter prostitute as a profession on her tax return and be sure it will not get reported to LE. Understandably, most will not do that, and choose, instead, to say something innocuous such as "entertainer", if she files a return at all.

I always cringe at the whole "legalize it to tax it" thing. They need to legalize this industry to make it safe for both SP and client. Otherwise it'll end up like alcohol or cigarettes where the vast majority of the cost is just taxes. Trudeau apparently feels prostitution is "violence against women" so I don't think anything is going to change otherwise.

And there are SP's who pay tax on their income. You register a business, shave off about 25% for fed/prov taxes, GST, etc but in turn you can expense any work related costs. So that's incall fees, beauty costs, clothes, travel costs, your phone, your internet, even your advertising. It would be an interesting case study to see if it's more beneficial to register as a business & then declare expenses.

 

[giaebonyprincess]

Useful information!!

Most of us file as a different business yes, but the only similar codes which is kinda weird they put together are

519130 - Online Adult Entertainment including Gambling, Pornography
812990 - Online psychic, escorts, dating, party planning, personal shopping

http://docs.quicktaxweb.ca/ty10/english/text/en/common/cra_other/cra_industry_code_service.html

Why are escorts lumped in with psychics and personal shopping and porn with gambling...

I think because 519130 is online adult shit and the other isn't besides the psychic. But thanks, this was very useful for me and thanks Westwoody for your response.

I never thinks it's good for people to calculate other peoples income..I think it's bad luck actually.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[felixthecat]

I never thinks it's good for people to calculate other peoples income..I think it's bad luck actually.

Bad luck you say? That makes you 812990 psychic

There was nobody calculating other people's incomes in this thread so far, from what I can see.

Feenix made a reasonable guess about total revenue of the industry, of course revenue is different from income. His point was more of GDP impact than what individuals make. He never guessed how many days a year an SP works, that's irrelevant in his calculations, so there is no implied guess of individual revenue/income.

Averages are rather impersonal too, and "average" does not mean "typical" (for that, "median" value is more appropriate, and still there can be huge variations).

I can argue a bumped ad does not mean any revenue was made; some ads are repeated within a day, and won't result in multiple appointments. On the other hand, a single ad can be for a whole agency, or at least for micros (say 3 girls in a condo), potentially many appointments that day. The factors average out somewhat.

 

[westwoody]

I can only guess at the size of the market in Winnipeg.
At the same time we have had very serious mismanagement in our city government.
Just one example: a city police headquarters that was supposed to cost circa $150 million, which is excessive. But is now at over 100 million over budget.
Second example: Museum of Human Rights, a hideous blight on a formerly beautiful park, that cost well over$300 million plus operating costs.

Taxing escorts would never offset this taxpayer abuse.

Also, many escorts do pay taxes.

The implication that they do not is what annoyed me.

 

[jgg]

westwoody says it well.

Most SP's do report and pay their taxes. They just want to be treated the same as everyone else.