A Seperate Canada Poll
- Thread starter stryker
- Start date
Good for you.
As Stryker says, check your facts.
1) B.C. is still a force in the global lumber industry.
2) The fishing industry is not dead yet. Ever hear of halibut, cod, pink, chum, and chinook salmon? Not to mention the salmon farms, which I happen to be against. You also have to include crab, mussels, oysters, and prawns. People also come from around the world to fish for rainbow trout, it's a huge business.
4) Tourism. The natural beauty of B.C. is and will continue to be a huge draw. Ever hear of Whistler?
5) Vancouver would continue to be the 3rd largest film centre in N.A.
6) Vancouver, and soon to be Prince Rupert, are the closest Canadian ports to China and India. Hence the building of a pipeline directly from Northern Alberta to Rupert, as only an example.
7) There are offshore oil reserves to look at.
8) The mining industry is on the rebound.
9) There's a thriving hi-tech and biotech industry here. Electronic Arts, MacDonald Dettwiler, QLT, Ballard Power, B.C. Biotech.
10) The beef/cattle industry. Douglas Lake Ranch is one of the largest working cattle ranches in North America.
If anything, B.C. may have the most diverse economy in the country. It's mostly multi-level government mismanagement that has held us back. You appear to live here but know very little about the province. Every think of moving back east?
The Lizzard King your to sensitive. Are you wanting people to dislike you for a reason. if someone makes a mistake in what they comment on, fine correct them and make a comment. Telling someone to "go back east" you have no right to say. I feel that the west should stay part of Canada. Lets keep this on topic and not make things personal.
Actually I do have a right to say. You have no problem running down Vancouver and propping up Toronto and the east, and I disagree with you. And I quote:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=274478#post274478
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=316700#post316700
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=393313#post393313
So you know fuck all about the province and appear to have disdain for everything Vancouver so why don`t you move as you suggest others do?
Canada needs to be united
I'm an American living here in Canada, as much as I hate Torontonians Canada needs Ontario and Quebec. I lived in beautiful Montreal and would hate to see Quebec not be part of Canada.
I'm an American living here in Canada, as much as I hate Torontonians Canada needs Ontario and Quebec. I lived in beautiful Montreal and would hate to see Quebec not be part of Canada.
Surely we can discuss both. Unless Stryker has some concerns with that.Akitasam said:
For the record, I don't want the West to seperate but I sure as hell would like to see some Federal policies that don't act like what is good for Toronto/Ontario is good for the country. There are many examples but I get the impression that you wouldn't understand any of them.
Who said we don't like Canada? It is assholes we don't like.Akitasam said:
I don't.Akitasam said:
Quite frankly, why don't you move to Montreal?Akitasam said:
You get this often don't you?Akitasam said:
Actually, I would like to move back in but since my mom is living with Smackyo it might be hard to arrange. Now where is that Smackhead?Akitasam said:
o.k. rainman you first.
i never said toronto was better then new york. read my post again. i said in my opinion i think it is more culturally diverse then new york and i gave a hypothisis as to why that may be. there is a difference.
as for your post about the how the two cities promote themselves i will say this. toronto isn't as blessed to have as many local natural attractions that vancouver has so they write about the feel of the city, they emphasise their strenghts. again, its called promotion and has nothing to do with sense of superiority or being "the centre of the universe".
also i'm not really into making this and east vs west or vancouver vs toronto thing however people here with their superiority complex seem to see fit to disrespect myself, my region of birth and coming of age as well as and i quote "all pieces of shit from the east" so you are also refering to my mother, father, grandparents, endless amounts of friends and good people that happen to call the area home all because you think the country owes you something or because of something trudeau did that you didn't like that happend more then 20 years ago for fuck sakes.
i am doing what anyone on this board would do if those actions were taken against them. so keep it coming if you want to cause no fucking way i am backing down.
now getting back to the point. there is nothing wrong with stating facts so i will state some.
fact - all my family lineage with a few exceptions basically came to canada and settled in the west before moving east. my generation is the first to be born in ontario.
fact - i love my country as one country above any other regional bullshit. i have fought for it in a manner of speaking(unity rally in montreal during seperation ref.) to be there at that point in time was something very special for me and everyone there. it filled me with a pride of country that to this day has not weigned, to think of how i felt and what it was to be there when it was announced that the no side had lost still sends shivers down my spine.
fact - i have lived in vancouver for 10 years now and love it for what it is, which is one of the most beautiful and liveable cities in the world. there are so many things here that so many people born in this city take for granted and me coming from a region without it, rest assured i never will.
now some other facts that you may not like but it does not make them any less of a fact.
fact - yes vancouver is diverse but not as diverse as toronto, so them emphasising it in a promotional tourism blurb is not arrogant. i mean for the love of god vancouver doesn't even have a little italy, and no, commercial drive is not a little italy. vancouver is made up mostly of whites, asians and south asians. that doesn't make it diverse. sorry guys but thats fact so whoever jumped all over that other guy for saying it, sorry but its true.
fact - there are many things to love about both cities. both cities are very different and each have their strenths and weaknesses. if you want my opinion on the matter vancouver still comes out on top but there are some things about toronto that i do miss very much but i will not go into them now. i will say this though. i can honestly say that never in my 20 years of living in ontario or the toronto or southern ontario region have i ever come across any hostility or bad words said about any other region in canada other then about quebec seperatists. not my friends, not my family, not even conversations over heard while i might be dinning or just hanging out somewhere. yet i can say that i come across this regularly in this city.
it seems like many in vancouver have this need to puff out their chest and let everyone know that this is the most beautiful city in the world and trust me, the superiority complex does not go unnoticed by people that might be a little more objective. namely people that are not from canada. i'll give examples to this later.
fact - toronto is a very large city, the largest in canada as a matter of fact. with many different ethnic groups as well as a much better highway and road infrustructure with many different types of bussinesses that do a ton of trading with our largest trading partner on a daily basis, as well as lots of shipping on the great lakes. therefore does it not make even a little bit of sense that a region that important to the economic well being of your country, with the majority of the population of the country living in that region garner some attention from policy makers?
it makes perfect sense to me. lets face it the bulk of the population is in the east. its where the immigrant boats from europe landed therefore that is what developed first cause the railway wasn't even done yet. the east developed quicker but the west is starting to become a force to be recconed with, with the growing importance of trade with asia and its natural resources. so now things may become more balanced in the future.
now getting back to the superiority complex out there that is rampant. i was at work one day and i mentioned to someone that i wanted to get home so that i could watch the leafs game. some other people over heard and started to kinda "give it to me" and not really in a friendly manner about the leafs and that i live in vancouver and i shouldn't like them. to which i said "hey i love the canucks and i cheer for them and want to see them do well. i'd cheer for them in ever scenario except one. we all can guess what that is. i explained that i grew up with that team and when you grow with something like that from childhood it sticks with you and i said i would never ask you in a million years if you moved to calgary and you grew up watching the canucks to give up loving and cheering for them.
my friend who was with me that i was originally talking to is philipino, he's been living in vancouver now for four years. he said to me "man whats up with that? that is something i've noticed. how come people in vancouver think they are better then the rest of canada?"
another friend that i went to university with in southern ontario flew out to vancouver around the time i had first moved here to see me. she loved it here by the way but we both had a lot of fun in university back east. we got talking to some people apparently born and raised here and she mentioned that she was from germany and that she loved vancouver and that she had been in toronto and southern ontario and liked there as well. the people turned up thier noses and went on a tirade about how vancouver is so much better and how toronto and ontario sucks and so on and so on. later in the week she says to me(in cute german accent
) "i really love vancouver more then toronto but i like toronto and ontario too. why so many people just say bad things about anywhere else in canada?" i didn't have an answer for her but now i just attribute it to the superiority complex.
i'll close with this. some people in the west seem to feel that canada owes them something or people from the east owe them something or don't deserve what they have(they have the same as you by the way). well let me tell you this, if anything you owe it to the country to live here. people have died to get here or endured conditions you probibly can't conceive of just to get a taste of the privileged life style you enjoy. also i'm not gonna just sit idle while a conversation about seperating the country i love and the country my great grandfathers went to europe and fought for and not say a word about your misinformed and selfish intentions.
your attitudes play right into the hands of the idiot politicians that keep this sentiment ever so slightly alive so they can continue to have good coshy jobs in politics by keeping the country seperated on so many issues. to anyone that voted "yes" in this forum i encourage you to renounce you citizenship and simply go somewhere else you will be happy rather then be so negative on a country that has acheived so much in not even 200 years in existence of being one united country.
look at what we as a people of this country have done in so little time. look at countries like england, spain, russia, germany, china, japan, even the u.s. these have been nations much longer then we have and we are right there with them.
i love this country, and all the regions and the people in it, i'll defend it and its unity until the day i die, anyone that has ever said shit about my country i have been right there to defend it. to those that vote yes on this forum maybe it would be best if you left cause you are counterproductive to this country being great by spreading this treasonus bullshit.
one more thing. there are vancouver canuck players that are from ontario. deal with it.
i never said toronto was better then new york. read my post again. i said in my opinion i think it is more culturally diverse then new york and i gave a hypothisis as to why that may be. there is a difference.
as for your post about the how the two cities promote themselves i will say this. toronto isn't as blessed to have as many local natural attractions that vancouver has so they write about the feel of the city, they emphasise their strenghts. again, its called promotion and has nothing to do with sense of superiority or being "the centre of the universe".
also i'm not really into making this and east vs west or vancouver vs toronto thing however people here with their superiority complex seem to see fit to disrespect myself, my region of birth and coming of age as well as and i quote "all pieces of shit from the east" so you are also refering to my mother, father, grandparents, endless amounts of friends and good people that happen to call the area home all because you think the country owes you something or because of something trudeau did that you didn't like that happend more then 20 years ago for fuck sakes.
i am doing what anyone on this board would do if those actions were taken against them. so keep it coming if you want to cause no fucking way i am backing down.
now getting back to the point. there is nothing wrong with stating facts so i will state some.
fact - all my family lineage with a few exceptions basically came to canada and settled in the west before moving east. my generation is the first to be born in ontario.
fact - i love my country as one country above any other regional bullshit. i have fought for it in a manner of speaking(unity rally in montreal during seperation ref.) to be there at that point in time was something very special for me and everyone there. it filled me with a pride of country that to this day has not weigned, to think of how i felt and what it was to be there when it was announced that the no side had lost still sends shivers down my spine.
fact - i have lived in vancouver for 10 years now and love it for what it is, which is one of the most beautiful and liveable cities in the world. there are so many things here that so many people born in this city take for granted and me coming from a region without it, rest assured i never will.
now some other facts that you may not like but it does not make them any less of a fact.
fact - yes vancouver is diverse but not as diverse as toronto, so them emphasising it in a promotional tourism blurb is not arrogant. i mean for the love of god vancouver doesn't even have a little italy, and no, commercial drive is not a little italy. vancouver is made up mostly of whites, asians and south asians. that doesn't make it diverse. sorry guys but thats fact so whoever jumped all over that other guy for saying it, sorry but its true.
fact - there are many things to love about both cities. both cities are very different and each have their strenths and weaknesses. if you want my opinion on the matter vancouver still comes out on top but there are some things about toronto that i do miss very much but i will not go into them now. i will say this though. i can honestly say that never in my 20 years of living in ontario or the toronto or southern ontario region have i ever come across any hostility or bad words said about any other region in canada other then about quebec seperatists. not my friends, not my family, not even conversations over heard while i might be dinning or just hanging out somewhere. yet i can say that i come across this regularly in this city.
it seems like many in vancouver have this need to puff out their chest and let everyone know that this is the most beautiful city in the world and trust me, the superiority complex does not go unnoticed by people that might be a little more objective. namely people that are not from canada. i'll give examples to this later.
fact - toronto is a very large city, the largest in canada as a matter of fact. with many different ethnic groups as well as a much better highway and road infrustructure with many different types of bussinesses that do a ton of trading with our largest trading partner on a daily basis, as well as lots of shipping on the great lakes. therefore does it not make even a little bit of sense that a region that important to the economic well being of your country, with the majority of the population of the country living in that region garner some attention from policy makers?
it makes perfect sense to me. lets face it the bulk of the population is in the east. its where the immigrant boats from europe landed therefore that is what developed first cause the railway wasn't even done yet. the east developed quicker but the west is starting to become a force to be recconed with, with the growing importance of trade with asia and its natural resources. so now things may become more balanced in the future.
now getting back to the superiority complex out there that is rampant. i was at work one day and i mentioned to someone that i wanted to get home so that i could watch the leafs game. some other people over heard and started to kinda "give it to me" and not really in a friendly manner about the leafs and that i live in vancouver and i shouldn't like them. to which i said "hey i love the canucks and i cheer for them and want to see them do well. i'd cheer for them in ever scenario except one. we all can guess what that is. i explained that i grew up with that team and when you grow with something like that from childhood it sticks with you and i said i would never ask you in a million years if you moved to calgary and you grew up watching the canucks to give up loving and cheering for them.
my friend who was with me that i was originally talking to is philipino, he's been living in vancouver now for four years. he said to me "man whats up with that? that is something i've noticed. how come people in vancouver think they are better then the rest of canada?"
another friend that i went to university with in southern ontario flew out to vancouver around the time i had first moved here to see me. she loved it here by the way but we both had a lot of fun in university back east. we got talking to some people apparently born and raised here and she mentioned that she was from germany and that she loved vancouver and that she had been in toronto and southern ontario and liked there as well. the people turned up thier noses and went on a tirade about how vancouver is so much better and how toronto and ontario sucks and so on and so on. later in the week she says to me(in cute german accent
) "i really love vancouver more then toronto but i like toronto and ontario too. why so many people just say bad things about anywhere else in canada?" i didn't have an answer for her but now i just attribute it to the superiority complex.i'll close with this. some people in the west seem to feel that canada owes them something or people from the east owe them something or don't deserve what they have(they have the same as you by the way). well let me tell you this, if anything you owe it to the country to live here. people have died to get here or endured conditions you probibly can't conceive of just to get a taste of the privileged life style you enjoy. also i'm not gonna just sit idle while a conversation about seperating the country i love and the country my great grandfathers went to europe and fought for and not say a word about your misinformed and selfish intentions.
your attitudes play right into the hands of the idiot politicians that keep this sentiment ever so slightly alive so they can continue to have good coshy jobs in politics by keeping the country seperated on so many issues. to anyone that voted "yes" in this forum i encourage you to renounce you citizenship and simply go somewhere else you will be happy rather then be so negative on a country that has acheived so much in not even 200 years in existence of being one united country.
look at what we as a people of this country have done in so little time. look at countries like england, spain, russia, germany, china, japan, even the u.s. these have been nations much longer then we have and we are right there with them.
i love this country, and all the regions and the people in it, i'll defend it and its unity until the day i die, anyone that has ever said shit about my country i have been right there to defend it. to those that vote yes on this forum maybe it would be best if you left cause you are counterproductive to this country being great by spreading this treasonus bullshit.
one more thing. there are vancouver canuck players that are from ontario.
deal with it.Hey smackyo,
first off. That is one of the best responses I have seen from you. I don't agree with all you have to say but I am impressed with your passion and logic.
But it is a lot more fun when we disagree.
I could go on and on as there are several more examples in your posts but I would like to move on to a couple of other points
Again, smackdaddy, it has been lots of fun. Say hi to my mom.
RM
first off. That is one of the best responses I have seen from you. I don't agree with all you have to say but I am impressed with your passion and logic.
But it is a lot more fun when we disagree.
Maybe according to your view but not mine nor many Westerners. I have said it before, I don't expect you to understand it but it is true. It comes across as arrogance. It could be written many different ways but the way it is written says "Not only are we great but we are better than you". Now, I know you don't like me using your own words against you but anyway here goessmackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
See we are better than New York.smackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
See we are better than yousmackyo said:
I could go on and on as there are several more examples in your posts but I would like to move on to a couple of other points
You do know the Liberals cheated, right?smackyo said:
Hey. We agree on something. I too have been here for 11 years and still cheer for my hometown teams....but the Leafs still suck.smackyo said:
Again, I voted no on the poll but if we follow your logic, we lose 1/2 the people in the west and 1/2 the people in Quebec. Canada wouldn't be much then would it.smackyo said:
Just so you know, so did my grandfathers and many members of my family. But they also fought for the right to have a government of the people and for many many years we only had a government of Ontario/Quebec.smackyo said:
Again, smackdaddy, it has been lots of fun. Say hi to my mom.
RM
Hey I have nothing against Vancouver. I live here, my family is here and I work here. I get offended when people take shots at my home Province. I just think its crazy that you can say Vancouver is great and everyone loves you. You say something about Ontario or Toronto and you get ripped on. I have nothing against anyone on this forum but I feel that Canada as a whole is far greater together than if it was torn apart.
Rain Man
So far, smackyo has been responding with pretty cogent, balanced and well reasoned responses. You've done little more than antagonize him and egg him on with ignorant quips and insults. Basically, it seems like you can't think of anything intelligent to respond back with.
Juvenile, man.
So far, smackyo has been responding with pretty cogent, balanced and well reasoned responses. You've done little more than antagonize him and egg him on with ignorant quips and insults. Basically, it seems like you can't think of anything intelligent to respond back with.
Juvenile, man.
Did you look at everything that smackyo had to say? There are more than one of his posts that deserve nothing other than a shot across the bowaznboi9 said:
Do you really think that I should sit and debate the last 30 years of Canadian history with him to hear him tell me it is either ancient history or bad luck for not having the population base that Ontario has?smackyo said:
Most of our discussion centered on his comment
Now, I thought I provided a fair rebuttal to that statement. The quote is taken directly from the website for the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. IMO it is an extremely arrogant statement. There are many other ways to sell a city and its attractions without making such a statement.smackyo said:
aznboi9 said:
Yep, you pretty much nailed it with those 2 comments. I had my fun, went overboard a bit.................okay a lot. I do have my problems, one of which is this red flag that goes up anytime I have to listen to how great Toronto or Ontario is.aznboi9 said:
Na, thats not it. Just don't want to waste my timeaznboi9 said:
Anyways........................ Hey Smackyo.
I was being honest when I wrote that I was impressed by your passion and love for the Big Dump or whatever you want to call TO. I believe you are convinced that your opinion is right. Everywhere you go in the West you will find people that strongly disagree. When you hear this from them, try your best to understand where that hate and frustration come from because it is real. A lot of people in the West feel that we are here for the benefit of Ontario.
On the hockey side of things, there are two things to remember. Vancouver fans treat all of us that cheer for out of town teams the same, whether it is TO, Calgary, Edmonton or Montreal. This is called hockey. Smile, be friendly, wish the Canucks the best and cheer like hell for the Oilers.
Be cool, peace man.
thankyou aznboi9.aznboi9 said:So far, smackyo has been responding with pretty cogent, balanced and well reasoned responses. You've done little more than antagonize him and egg him on with ignorant quips and insults. Basically, it seems like you can't think of anything intelligent to respond back with.
Juvenile, man.
rainman how bout quit posting my words out of context. not to hard to take random words from paragraph of info and turn it to make it look like concete.
as for the how you see it as me saying "see we are better then you." did i not say in that whole post that i do think overall vancouver comes out on top? i did say that right? yes i did. i know i did. your post responses to what i said for the most part don't even really deserve a reply so i will not reply to them except for one.
to try to cheapen my experience of a moment in time that meant not only a lot to me but to the country with your little quip(and not knowing the full story cause i doubt you have read the book or any other book on the matter) that "you know the liberals cheated right?" was pretty fucked up.
you know paul martin said something very interresting during the second english langauge leaders debate that kind of went unnoticed.
when gilles duceppe brought up that topic paul martin said kind of trailing off because they were going to another topic, "mr. duceppe that was just the liberals coming down to the level of the partis quebecois." yeah so what, the liberals spent more money then what they were supposed to on promoting the no campain. your angry about that? i sure as hell am not cause the partis quebecois has been playing dirty politics since its inception as a political party.
some more facts for you. do you not think that the PQ was doing their best to make it difficult for voters that they thought were going to vote "no" to vote? well let me tell you, yes they did and i've seen documented proof of this, i've also read books on the subject, the most noteable being "fighting for canada" by dianne francis. only thing that confuses me is that when its found out the liberals spent a few more bucks then they were supposed to on promotion of the "no" side its headline news but the PQ gets away with the corruption they have been doing for years and no one is the wiser. the PQ took part in and orchestrated massive voter fraud as well as actually baring many alophones (french nor english as a first langauge) and minorities and recent imigrants and out of province voters, that were feared to be voting for the "no" side from actually voting or even registering to vote through like i said fraud and voter intimidation among other things.
so you wanna point the finger at the liberals cause of your western bias? let me say this, i grew up for the most part on the border of ontario and quebec, about a 5 k distance. i do speak french and i have been to quebec many times and spent a significant amout of time in that province.
i've had a lot of fun in quebec and have a deep affection for it. now i don't claim to fully understand it but growing up for a part of my life near there and speaking the langauge i think i have a bit more insight into it then yourself although i might be jumping the gun cause i don't know your background but i'm willing to bet i do.
i actually feel kinda sorry for the people of quebec that would vote yes on seperation cause they are being lied to by thier politicians and really are not told about the full extent of what the consequences would be to a "yes" vote.
so there ya go, yes the liberals cheated and so did the PQ. like martin said, its was simply the liberals lowing to the level of the PQ(man i wish more people would have heard that.) the PQ and seperatist politicians have been playing dirty politics since day one and especially when leveques didn't sign the charter. maybe you should educate yourself a bit more on both sides, not let your western liberal hating bias cloud your objectivity in the matter and actually search out some other forms of info other then getting it from the tv every night with half truths and one sided stories.
oh one more thing, i'd be happy to debate you in canadian history. i minored in it at during my time at brock.
smackyo,
like I said, I don't doubt your passion. It is clear you love your verision of Canada and I respect that. I just don't take your view of it. Like you don't accept my "western bias", I don't accept your "ontario bias".
When you say that the liberals spent "a few more bucks than they should have" were you referring to the $8 million in billboard advertising or the $5 million on the Canada rally? The truth is that the No forces (including the federal government) had 10 times as much funding as the Yes side when Quebec law required equal funding.
Cheating is okay to save Canada? Or just to save Ontario? We all know whose self interest was being served here. We all know which province has been electing the Liberals.
You then justify the corruption by saying the PQ were corrupt as well. That makes it okay? No wonder the Liberals had their hands in our pockets all this time. It must be okay because "we've being doing it for years". The PQ stopped recent imigrants from voting while the Liberals fast-tracked approval of immigration and naturalization requests. Bad for PQ but ok for Liberals?
You think you know my background? Gee, you think I give out any clues? As for knowing french and living in southern Ontario, it doesn't make you smarter but you go right on thinking it does, okay?
Every post you make, you state how great it is in the east. Your bias and arrogance shows again and again.
You don't like my anti Liberal stance, well check out your anti Conservative stance (I did).
So I am going to sign off on this thread now as it is getting boring. As I indicated before, I don't expect to get anywhere educating you as I am sure you won't get anywhere with me.
Oh, by the way. The CBC is biased too.. Try broadening your horizons a bit.
like I said, I don't doubt your passion. It is clear you love your verision of Canada and I respect that. I just don't take your view of it. Like you don't accept my "western bias", I don't accept your "ontario bias".
When you say that the liberals spent "a few more bucks than they should have" were you referring to the $8 million in billboard advertising or the $5 million on the Canada rally? The truth is that the No forces (including the federal government) had 10 times as much funding as the Yes side when Quebec law required equal funding.
Cheating is okay to save Canada? Or just to save Ontario? We all know whose self interest was being served here. We all know which province has been electing the Liberals.
You then justify the corruption by saying the PQ were corrupt as well. That makes it okay? No wonder the Liberals had their hands in our pockets all this time. It must be okay because "we've being doing it for years". The PQ stopped recent imigrants from voting while the Liberals fast-tracked approval of immigration and naturalization requests. Bad for PQ but ok for Liberals?
You think you know my background? Gee, you think I give out any clues? As for knowing french and living in southern Ontario, it doesn't make you smarter but you go right on thinking it does, okay?
Every post you make, you state how great it is in the east. Your bias and arrogance shows again and again.
You don't like my anti Liberal stance, well check out your anti Conservative stance (I did).
So I am going to sign off on this thread now as it is getting boring. As I indicated before, I don't expect to get anywhere educating you as I am sure you won't get anywhere with me.
Oh, by the way. The CBC is biased too.. Try broadening your horizons a bit.
