I've been to the #5 many times and I can assure it's not a go go place LOL.Jerk- go beat off in the cornerThe Number Five is not a gogo like you described earlier.
Cumming soon, a brothel near you....maybe !
- Thread starter hang5507
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Another poster said that. I dont think it is now but I think its a good idea to open a place with the same enviroment as the No.5. except you pay the girl to LEAVE with you.Jerk- go beat off in the corner
I know the No.5 is just a place were sheltered men go to pay for blue balls. Have fun making money on them, all the power to you
of course, all these things are inter related. when strip clubs close and dancers are forced to be escorts in an already over run job market the trickle down effect is someone will loose their job. dancers are for the most part younger more marketable and so and older sp like me who let's say can't work from home or run their own independent escorting business will end up on the street because they have no choice. poverty doesn't evaporate.
the most extreme case i now of is a former feature dancer, gorgeous, forced to become an escort. she was emotionally impacted and couldn't cope. now she does $5 blow jobs and jokes about cashing in her fake tits for money. if any one doubts addiction is a symptom of complex PTSD i challenge you with this case, she didn't do crack until she was emotionally affected by being forced to choose sex work that fell outside of her physical comfort level.
she uses drugs as a way to self harm/ cope with what is happening to her and now being entrenched at the street level, she is witnessing and experiencing levels of violence your average person can not comprehend.
the biggest mistake is to think some how escorts are different from street sex workers. we are all the same and if we want to stop the tide of workers forced into the street level trade, forced to endure the dangerous working conditions, shamed by everyone...if we as sex workers don't care or do something, who will? as a consumer you must be able to see that all it would take is one extreme incident and your favorite "high end"sp could be on the addiction train. we must stabilize the rest of the industry... know what i mean?
also, i am an escort so of course i am trying to stabilize myself also. i need to be treated with respect and be sure i will be able to work safely for the remainder of my career. the police, courts, victims services all need reform and i have experienced first hand the barriers to service- ie sex workers don't qualify for victims compensation because you must be able to attribute your trauma to one particular event... all sex work is rape is what they have been taught in their training. so, multiple trauma's- we don't qualify- been raped too much?
i'm not joking about this but we are working to change those policies...i also have survivor guilt...because i survived mr. pickton and i survived the street...one of the symptoms of PTSD is the survivor is driven almost obsessed with preventing the injustice from happening to anyone else... sound familiar? it's not like i get paid for what i do in fact i harm myself by working too hard at advocacy and neglecting my sex work and sole source of income.
part of it is" why me?why did i survive?" ...guilt
enough susie!!!i'm going to have a coffee now
also, the bar would loose it's license, that's how this whole thing started.Gogo bars wouldn't work in Canada, because of the Solicitation laws for Public....& you got to think what type of Liscense they'd have to buy ....it wouldn't work.
By the way babe, the very best customers like to get to know you, have you indulge they're egos & keep them company....one shot wonders have the blue balls cornered
we all used to be together under one roof until the penthouse in 75. no bar or social club are allowed to tolerate the presence of a prostitute or person of evil repute- city by laws governing clubs-
of course, all these things are inter related. when strip clubs close and dancers are forced to be escorts in an already over run job market the trickle down effect is someone will loose their job. dancers are for the most part younger more marketable and so and older sp like me who let's say can't work from home or run their own independent escorting business will end up on the street because they have no choice. poverty doesn't evaporate.
the most extreme case i now of is a former feature dancer, gorgeous, forced to become an escort. she was emotionally impacted and couldn't cope. now she does $5 blow jobs and jokes about cashing in her fake tits for money. if any one doubts addiction is a symptom of complex PTSD i challenge you with this case, she didn't do crack until she was emotionally affected by being forced to choose sex work that fell outside of her physical comfort level.
she uses drugs as a way to self harm/ cope with what is happening to her and now being entrenched at the street level, she is witnessing and experiencing levels of violence your average person can not comprehend.
the biggest mistake is to think some how escorts are different from street sex workers. we are all the same and if we want to stop the tide of workers forced into the street level trade, forced to endure the dangerous working conditions, shamed by everyone...if we as sex workers don't care or do something, who will? as a consumer you must be able to see that all it would take is one extreme incident and your favorite "high end"sp could be on the addiction train. we must stabilize the rest of the industry... know what i mean?
also, i am an escort so of course i am trying to stabilize myself also. i need to be treated with respect and be sure i will be able to work safely for the remainder of my career. the police, courts, victims services all need reform and i have experienced first hand the barriers to service- ie sex workers don't qualify for victims compensation because you must be able to attribute your trauma to one particular event... all sex work is rape is what they have been taught in their training. so, multiple trauma's- we don't qualify- been raped too much?
i also have survivor guilt...because i survived mr. pickton and i survived the street...one of the symptoms of PTSD is the survivor is driven almost obsessed with preventing the injustice from happening to anyone else... sound familiar? it's not like i get paid for what i do in fact i harm myself by working too hard at advocacy and neglecting my sex work and sole source of income.
part of it is" why me?why did i survive?" ...guilt
enough susie!!!i'm going to have a coffee now
If you are doing really well financially at some point then it is stupid and unresponsable to assume that it will continue forever. Save and invest some of the money when you are doing well. But thats not cool is it. Its nobodys fault but the person that wastes their own money.
Is the sucsessful responsable escort just lucky ? I think not.
You are not giving people with self discipline any credit with the way you look at it. People are sucsessful for a reason and people fail for a reason.
i am a successful escort...what am i missing here?
did i piss you off? not my intention at all babe!
the coop model could absolutely apply to indoor workers, workers could share expenses to secure their own incall, or to set up an escort service booking girls, security,etc and share expenses for that...
i am not saying saving money and preparing for the future won't help and isn't wise...
i'm saying that an assault is a life changing event and some cannot cope...ending up on the self medication train, loosing savings, becoming homeless...
i've seen it happen dude. we are all people- high end or street dweller...
did i piss you off? not my intention at all babe!
the coop model could absolutely apply to indoor workers, workers could share expenses to secure their own incall, or to set up an escort service booking girls, security,etc and share expenses for that...
i am not saying saving money and preparing for the future won't help and isn't wise...
i'm saying that an assault is a life changing event and some cannot cope...ending up on the self medication train, loosing savings, becoming homeless...
i've seen it happen dude. we are all people- high end or street dweller...
My point is that there is a huge difference between the escort that owns a condo and a street dweller. They are not the same and neither is their clientele.
Thats like saying the Bentley dealer is the same as an alcoholic mechanic with a rust bucket car for sale.
you're missing the point, if a bentley is in a crash and is totaled beyond where does it end up? the same place the drunken rust bucket ends up, scrap yard...
doesn't matter dude, we are all entitled to our opinion. i am not de valuing successful sp's.
i choose to treat the workers on the street as equals, that's just me.
i respect where they came from and am humbled when i hear their stories. i feel lucky evey day that i am safe and have a great regular clientele.
doesn't matter dude, we are all entitled to our opinion. i am not de valuing successful sp's.
i choose to treat the workers on the street as equals, that's just me.
i respect where they came from and am humbled when i hear their stories. i feel lucky evey day that i am safe and have a great regular clientele.
But the most basic description of both is: car seller.
Everyone knows and understands that escort vs SW have different surroundings and different clientele (altho not exclusively different, there are a lot of high end (hi track) SWs who charge more than the average indy escort), but the bottom line and end result is the same: sex seller.
I am also of the opinion that SWs should enjoy the advantages and safety of indoor work.
Vegas girls walk the street too but they are the same quality and price as an escort, they are escorts.
The real escorts are doing themselves a huge disservice by not clearly differentiating themselves from street dwellers.
If the Bentley dealer goes broke he will just go find another thing to do. Most businessmen that go broke already have something new set up before they go broke. Donald Trumps casinos are going broke as we speak, he will not end up on the street i assure you.
That's the big difference between you and wess (well, one of the differences anyway
). You see, you seem to be the type of person who believes in the basic humanity of all people, and who doesn't rush to judge people based on outward appearances. Wess, on the other hand, is a prejudiced ass who judges everyone based on his small-minded, and usually wildly inaccurate, generalizations. Don't even bother trying to change his mind about anything - he's far too closed-minded to even admit that any opinion other than his own could have so much as a tiny degree of merit.We are all people, thats were the similarities end.That's the big difference between you and wess (well, one of the differences anyway
i'd like to see how donald trump handles being sexually assaulted and brutalized... money doesn't make your emotions bullet proof....
i agree completely other areas of the sex industry where workers could choose work within their physical boundaries are disappearing not because of lack of interest but because of the police and municipaities considering exotic dancing a reasonable casualty in their war on "org crime".
i don't know if you guys remember this but the VPD were going into the show lounges 20 at a time in uniform asking all patrons for ID and harassing dancers
it was dirty....
any way here's what i wrote the police board and go out and support your local strip club IMMEDIATELY!!LOL
Re: Escalation in enforcement against Organized Crime-
Sept 19, 2007
To Whom It May Concern:
My name is Susan Davis and I’ve been a sex worker for 21 yeas from coast to coast and in all levels of the trade. I am a member of the BCCEC which is a consort of current and former sex workers who fight for human rights and labor standards for sex workers.
During the advocacy and media work that I do, one question consistently comes up. How did the situation become as dangerous as it is? In an effort answer this question a group of sex workers including my self set out to discover what had happened at least on a local level, to create the dangerous environment sex workers in the DTES face every day. We learned how a brief period of moral zeal known as social gospel had lead to prohibition and the beginnings of the cultural divide that the so called “underground “ and community at large live with today.
The religious overtones of this time have defined every decision made around this difficult issue and still plague sex workers ability to organize to this day.
How can we over come this barrier?
During the Living in Community Project it became clear that sex workers needed a safe place to work and communities were no longer willing to tolerate the residual mess of the industry, meaning condoms and needles, or the visible violence and sexual activity taking place around them.
We need to bring the trade in off of the street.
The history project shows us how local, provincial and federal governments have systematically removed all safe work options for sex workers.
During the 1920’s and all the way up to the 1960’s, sex workers from all aspects of the trade worked together in what were then known as “Supper Clubs”. Dancers performed complex routines and escorts were available to have diner and keep you company for the night, cigarette girls, bartenders… all working together under one roof within their own personal physical boundaries, a community.
In 1973, the Penthouse Show Lounge was charged with living off the avails of prostitution and our community was divided down the middle. This action had made all supper club owners unwilling to work with sex workers and this safe stabile work environment was lost. The street trade in Vancouver shot up that year and the first recorded murder of a sex worker took place, a direct result of this action.
The law revisions of 1985 had an equally disastrous effect increasing the mortality rate of Vancouver sex workers by 500%.
In the early 1990’s sex workers could rent hotels rooms in the DTES by the hour and have a safe place to work. The city threatened the hotel owners with criminal prosecution and the loss of their businesses making them no longer willing to do business with us either, another safe option lost.
Is it any wonder a street trade exists? The only place left to work was the isolated industrial areas of the east end or crab. 1990 was the year that workers really began to go missing at an incredible rate from the DTES.
Recently, health enhancement center raids, the closure of 17 show lounges in the lower mainland, and a training video for hotel staff to identify sex workers have once again compromised the safety of adult sex workers in Vancouver. The officers in charge of these actions have expressed that adult industry workers are seen as a reasonable casualty in their efforts to stabilize youth or de-stabilize organized crime. This is unacceptable. We are human beings and deserve the same protection and consideration as other citizens enjoy.
These actions have direct impact on the lives of industry workers. I now have exotic dancers who want to know how they can work safely as escorts. They have had to choose to violate their physical boundaries and engage in an area of the industry which makes them uncomfortable; dancers don’t want to be escorts. After the release of the training video for hotel staff on the national news I received a phone call from a young man claiming to be a hotel doorman. He wanted to send customers my way for a $30.00 cut of each call. He also wanted to come to sample the merchandise for free before sending me any calls. This just demonstrates how giving someone power over sex workers leads to them taking advantage. If we can’t trust police officers and RCMP officers to resist the temptation, how will a hotel doorman or janitor?
The recent murder of an indoor worker in Kitsalano has once again put the spot light on the safety of sex industry workers. As a community, sex industry workers are mobilizing and more politically aware. We as a community have decided that the workers in the east end are dying the fastest and there fore must be saved first. This is a hard decision when everyone’s safety and stability is at risk but none the less, this is our only option.
You may have read in the news recently about cooperatively run brothels in Victoria and Vancouver. The Vancouver collective of sex workers in the east end have been working hard and we will be officially incorporated as a Cooperative sometime in November. This cooperative will be the “umbrella” for a number os sex worker community development activities. An art collective, a coop publishing company, a coop catering company and of course the controversial cooperatively run safe work site.
It is not our intention to violate the law or put the VPD in a position where you are forced to arrest us. We will NOT open a safe work site without a special exemption or amnesty for the federal government. We have done a preliminary scan of how this might be accomplished and it seems that in fact we may be able to do it through legal channels. The site would be owned and operated by the workers who access the site. They could vote on what to do with any profits and benefit from mentoring and capacity building opportunities in all aspects of running the cooperative. The workers involved in the development of our cooperative had many suggestions for what to do with any profits from the cooperative business activities. One example which never fails to move me was the wish to create a scholarship fund for the children of dead sex workers. We will need community and police support for this initiative.
The VPD presented itself at the International Harm Reduction Conference as a Harm reduction police force but seems to have misinterpreted the fundamental principles of this approach which is to engage the community affected, not to protect the community at large from us. That is not to say that this department isn’t trying to employ different methods and reduce harm to the sex worker community. I personally have trained almost 200 new recruits and was asked to join the Diversity Advisory Committee to the Chief Constable, the first time sex workers have been acknowledged as a distinct community and culture by this department. I attended 2 DAC meetings with one of my peers and we slowly began to see the potential of the DAC for real trust building between our community and the VPD. We were asked to take part in the ride along program and were excited to agree. Unfortunately my friend’s extensive criminal history although from 15years previous had made her ineligible and she was kicked out of the police car after just 45 min.’s.
The DAC mandate asks sex workers to lend their credibility within their community to the VPD in an effort to restore trust in the department and open up communication with us but where is this department’s trust in us? Somehow we must meet half way. We then received an e-mail stating that the issues facing sex industry workers were too broad for the DAC and that it might be better to strike a working group. We were told the VPD DAC member would enquire with PIVOT legal society on how to start such a group. I politely reminded them that the city had struck a working group to the tune of $500,000 in Living in Community and that the police had been at the table. Well, at least for the first 2 ½ years. Kash Heed was supposed to replace John Mackay on the committee but apparently didn’t consider it a high priority.
The first meetings of this working group are scheduled to begin this week and thankfully we have been included right from the beginning and will have some input as to who should be involved in the committee. This will be an East End working group and we hope to include voices from all areas of the sex industry and the community itself in order to appropriately address enforcement issues facing us. We hold up great hope for this action and pray that some communication between the VPD and the sex industry will stem the harms caused by enforcement in the past.
As the VPD prepares another attack on so called organized crime we are bracing ourselves for the inevitable impact of this war on our lives. Yes, war. We now know this department considers us reasonable casualties in this war and are preparing once again for the harms that will undoubtedly follow.
The new Police Chief stated in the media after my last presentation that sex work is illegal. It scares me a little that the new Chief has such a lack of knowledge of the criminal code. Prostitution is NOT illegal. Being an Exotic Dancer is NOT illegal. Working in the Porn industry is NOT illegal. Being a bartender or bouncer in an Exotic show lounge is NOT illegal. Being a business owner and providing safe work spaces for sex industry workers is NOT illegal.
However, sexual harassment and sexual assault are illegal. The complaints we received about the Organized Crime Task Force included these things although the victim’s were not willing to come forward and pursue criminal charges, it’s not difficult to see why. It was explained to me that the VPD purposely recruit ”tough guys” for this task force because the gangsters are tough guys, fair enough. Does this justify the actions of this group of VPD thugs during their last efforts? What happened to serve and protect?
PLEASE, consider any actions you approve as a board carefully and be aware of the far reaching effects these actions will have. PLEASE, work with us. No one else needs to die or be harmed during or as a result of VPD operations.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
Susan Davis
BCCEC
(604)671-2345
This made me feel really sad. A girl I grew up with and went to high school with was a victim of Robert Picton
I have worked in Las Vegas and all over Canada in many different ways, capacities, I've stripped, worked lounges, casinos, hotels, had ads in the paper, and on the Internet, lol. I have worked for agencies and massage parlors, and for myself. When I was real young, I even had a stint working on the street with a pimp. Now I have money saved, support my parents (my dads sick and my moms bad with money), and live in a condo near Stanley Park. I have owned several cars, whatever, have bought a $1200 pair of pants, whatever. After the olympics I will be buying a house and you are still a judgmental ass.
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To be crass, here, for a moment; selling pussy is selling pussy. It doesn't matter where you do it or how much you charge, $5 or $500. I'm just lucky that I have skin made out of titanium, don't have addiction tendencies, and I'm pretty enough that I can charge what I charge. That is the only difference between me and my friend that Robert Picton got.
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Imho
"The real escorts are doing themselves a huge disservice by not clearly differentiating themselves from street dwellers."
I disagree with the above comment. Protecting, supporting and demanding respect for the worst off survival sex workers may be the best way to secure respect for the rest of the community. The well off sex trade workers would be unlikely to provide the support that the survival workers need if the well off see themselves as "clearly differentiated". If one part of the community is written off by another and is left twisting in the breeze then the whole community will be subject to the abuse that bigots and hypocrits think is appropriate for those worst off. Everything is connected.
The COOP hasn't decided how to deal with investment shares? How about just selling redeemable shares for now and guaranteeing 1 or 2 percent from a term deposit. No problem for either party and you can give the investors an opportunity to redeem the shares before you do anything else with the money. In the mean time you have an indication of community support.
I wonder about waiting untill you can open a legal Safe Work Site. How about a container that you drop at the side of the road overnight in the centre of the action. How about operating a supper club on a boat in federal jurisdiction. It should take a while for the bigots and hypocrits to figure out how to deal with those variations.
You have been blocked from directly challenging the harmful laws. How about starting a fund to support the affected or charged individuals who are needed to challenge the laws?
It all takes money. Are the well off members of this community willing to support the fight that will be needed to change things? Do they see their own interests at stake?
"The real escorts are doing themselves a huge disservice by not clearly differentiating themselves from street dwellers."
I disagree with the above comment. Protecting, supporting and demanding respect for the worst off survival sex workers may be the best way to secure respect for the rest of the community. The well off sex trade workers would be unlikely to provide the support that the survival workers need if the well off see themselves as "clearly differentiated". If one part of the community is written off by another and is left twisting in the breeze then the whole community will be subject to the abuse that bigots and hypocrits think is appropriate for those worst off. Everything is connected.
The COOP hasn't decided how to deal with investment shares? How about just selling redeemable shares for now and guaranteeing 1 or 2 percent from a term deposit. No problem for either party and you can give the investors an opportunity to redeem the shares before you do anything else with the money. In the mean time you have an indication of community support.
I wonder about waiting untill you can open a legal Safe Work Site. How about a container that you drop at the side of the road overnight in the centre of the action. How about operating a supper club on a boat in federal jurisdiction. It should take a while for the bigots and hypocrits to figure out how to deal with those variations.
You have been blocked from directly challenging the harmful laws. How about starting a fund to support the affected or charged individuals who are needed to challenge the laws?
It all takes money. Are the well off members of this community willing to support the fight that will be needed to change things? Do they see their own interests at stake?
I would like to add, that a lot of women in the dt east side started out life as beautiful babies, who grew up into beautiful young women, who then for whatever reason could not cope, turned to drugs. The beautiful woman is still there, but buried under layers of abuse, sores, and traumas.
I find it really sad that people have the need to judge the misfortunes of others. Most of the time judging is done purely because the judge has an inferiority complex and is trying to convince others how superior he or she is.
Sorry that you went through so much effort, but I'm not convinced you, I, or anyone is better than anyone.
I find it really sad that people have the need to judge the misfortunes of others. Most of the time judging is done purely because the judge has an inferiority complex and is trying to convince others how superior he or she is.
Sorry that you went through so much effort, but I'm not convinced you, I, or anyone is better than anyone.
