Umm... to a certain Madame... Newsflash: The economy is tanking!
- Thread starter Cosmo
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Do you believe that if everyone here emailed her and told her a fair price would be 120/hr that she would lower her rates accordingly?
Personally I don't believe that she has an interest in what pooners believe is fair at all, nor do I believe that she will lower her rates. The realistic will survive in the end No, I'm not. Rude and hurtful would be saying that the majority of men on this board don't have the intelligence to be an sp. Which is what Jaime did.
For the record I wasn't calling anybody stupid. I was simply pointing out that a person of average intellect could do the job just fine.
Of course the truth is that we are both really just talking out of our asses, as neither one of us can really say what her true motive was
Escorts aren't the ones who constantly bring this up, pooners do with the age old and oft repeated question: why do sps think they should be paid as much as blah blah blah. I see you didn't disappoint by bringing it up here lol. A good sp doesn't start out good, btw. She has to put in time, experience and learn skills to elevate her to another level (example Misty last year vs Misty this year).
Why shouldn't she? How much do you think it costs her to make that much & do you really believe she can earn that much for 30-40 years, as this degreed professional can and will?
yawn
Take a look at the salaries of athletes, movie stars and so on. Short shelf life = higher salaries.
And this is your business how. I can't believe any sp would allow themselves to be bullied into showing anything with their real name on it.
Again, the sps don't do this, the guys who constantly compare their fees with degreed fees do this.
And I am sure that many of us have worked with or for such people with masters and phds who are NOT intelligent nor hard working.
I think that is the point of higher rates.
Isn't that the number one problem with the low rate sps? They cannot afford advertising, photo shoots, nicer surroundings, etc, and therefore they themselves do not match their ad. Complaints about the surroundings are common.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in order to be tax deductible, the expenses have to be spent first. Which mean you have to have it in order to spend, and it has to be spent. Who cares if you can declare it later, it still has to be paid out monthly. You don't get money back, you just have to pay a little less in taxes lol. That's like the price after refund deal.
Why? Are you planning to cover all of these expenses for them, so you can justify that they aren't needed after all?
I can't believe how hard both sides of this argument try to fight the basic mathematical certainty of Supply and Demand and Nash Equilibrium.
It is ALL about supply and demand.
With the current economy and jobs being more scarce and people losing their jobs (including some hotties and/or their SOs) and becoming more desperate, we are going to see two things:
1) An increase in supply as more girls consider escorting, either full time or part time, to be their best option.
2) A decrease in demand as more pooners just simply don't have the money to spend. First it will be those who just decide that they want to cut back on leisure spending, then there will be those who simply can't afford it anymore because they lost their old job or aren't getting as much work or whatever.
Pooning is, for the most part, a very elastic commodity. The reasons are simple:
1) There are no real barriers for entry into the business. If you are a girl and want to sell sex, you can. Sure there will be good ones and bad ones but there isn't a barrier that forms any sort of monopoly (like in the case of formal certification or a huge start up cost etc)
2) It is not a fundamentally necessary thing, it is a luxury item. You won't die if you don't get laid (even if it feels like you will).
3) There is full variability in the overhead and operating expenses of an escort. While there are those who do spend a lot of money on high end incalls, clothes, makeup etc etc... those items are not absolutely required in order to enter the business. As with all commodity goods, higher end goods have a higher overhead and materials cost to produce them and be able to sell them. But the option of making them cheaply always exists.
4) Outsourcing to Asia is clearly an option. Think of all the Asian micros.
So, what will happen as the economy circles the drain is that the average price will go down. Certainly there will be those who will keep their price high, or leave the business rather than lower their price. But for every girl who keeps her price high, there will be more than one that lowers hers. For every girl that leaves the business rather than lower her price, there will be several new girls that enter the business with lower prices.
You can't apply supply and demand ideas to a single transaction or even to a single escort. Technically each individual SP is a monopoly. If you want to fuck M1A, only M1A can sell you that. But if you look at the business as a whole, it is NOT a monopoly and supply and demand will set the AVERAGE price of what is available on the market on any given day.
It is ALL about supply and demand.
With the current economy and jobs being more scarce and people losing their jobs (including some hotties and/or their SOs) and becoming more desperate, we are going to see two things:
1) An increase in supply as more girls consider escorting, either full time or part time, to be their best option.
2) A decrease in demand as more pooners just simply don't have the money to spend. First it will be those who just decide that they want to cut back on leisure spending, then there will be those who simply can't afford it anymore because they lost their old job or aren't getting as much work or whatever.
Pooning is, for the most part, a very elastic commodity. The reasons are simple:
1) There are no real barriers for entry into the business. If you are a girl and want to sell sex, you can. Sure there will be good ones and bad ones but there isn't a barrier that forms any sort of monopoly (like in the case of formal certification or a huge start up cost etc)
2) It is not a fundamentally necessary thing, it is a luxury item. You won't die if you don't get laid (even if it feels like you will).
3) There is full variability in the overhead and operating expenses of an escort. While there are those who do spend a lot of money on high end incalls, clothes, makeup etc etc... those items are not absolutely required in order to enter the business. As with all commodity goods, higher end goods have a higher overhead and materials cost to produce them and be able to sell them. But the option of making them cheaply always exists.
4) Outsourcing to Asia is clearly an option. Think of all the Asian micros.
So, what will happen as the economy circles the drain is that the average price will go down. Certainly there will be those who will keep their price high, or leave the business rather than lower their price. But for every girl who keeps her price high, there will be more than one that lowers hers. For every girl that leaves the business rather than lower her price, there will be several new girls that enter the business with lower prices.
You can't apply supply and demand ideas to a single transaction or even to a single escort. Technically each individual SP is a monopoly. If you want to fuck M1A, only M1A can sell you that. But if you look at the business as a whole, it is NOT a monopoly and supply and demand will set the AVERAGE price of what is available on the market on any given day.
There certainly are plenty of girls with below average intellect who are doing the job just fine too
But that's not the same as saying that everyone who does the job has a below average intellect.
Brains aren't really required to be successful in the business. They help, but it isn't required.
Similarly, big boobs aren't required to do well in the business. There are many girls with quite small boobs who are doing very well. But, having big boobs probably is an advantage.
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man sometimes this board sucks. after 4 pages of posts and many other threads dedicated to this topic nothing ever changes, people will always disagree on price. when you sell something you want as much as you can for it and when you buy something you to pay as little for it as possible. its like the black eyed peas said "people are addicted to the drama"
Although this thread was more about one woman criticizing another for lowering her rates.
But that is why the supply-demand concept doesn't hold: there is no 'average', or market, price as would be determined in a truly competitive market; SP's as a whole are not price-takers - they determine their own rate, not some 'market' value.
Yes, but I'm sure you know what's supposed to happen to profits in the long-run? And when they reach zero, prices go up again.
The rest was a good textbook reading though. lol
Showing your true colors
You know what the problem is with most of the argument on this thread .is?
You all are treating the ladies as things that are bought , sold and used.. and that is the attitude of so many of the guys here
You talk about the escorts as they are are sacks of coffee that that if there is a good crop then the price will be lower..
I have to say FUCK.. and if that is all you want then yes there is a hole in the wall some there that you can get your rock off in..
The economy is going down hill and i am sure many of the gils will get less business.. Now is the time to be more creative in marketing and maybe prices will drop or sevice levels change .. but this iis a client drive business and there will always be guys that want to see one girl over another.. those girls will always do well if they establish a good repeat cient base..
And as for prices.. those that have been in the hobb as pre say , for a little while know that they don't pay the posted price if they regularly see the ladies ,, and if they treat people with respect and not as things . they get the same respect back.
As for we would not be able to do what they can do.. sorry there are guys that do .. And if i was younger . good looking and had some thing to offer I would be considering it..Not on the M/M side though..
I still would be willing to give it a try at 54.. Any Ladies looking for a companion for a few hrs
You know what the problem is with most of the argument on this thread .is?
You all are treating the ladies as things that are bought , sold and used.. and that is the attitude of so many of the guys here
You talk about the escorts as they are are sacks of coffee that that if there is a good crop then the price will be lower..
I have to say FUCK.. and if that is all you want then yes there is a hole in the wall some there that you can get your rock off in..
The economy is going down hill and i am sure many of the gils will get less business.. Now is the time to be more creative in marketing and maybe prices will drop or sevice levels change .. but this iis a client drive business and there will always be guys that want to see one girl over another.. those girls will always do well if they establish a good repeat cient base..
And as for prices.. those that have been in the hobb as pre say , for a little while know that they don't pay the posted price if they regularly see the ladies ,, and if they treat people with respect and not as things . they get the same respect back.
As for we would not be able to do what they can do.. sorry there are guys that do .. And if i was younger . good looking and had some thing to offer I would be considering it..Not on the M/M side though..
I still would be willing to give it a try at 54.. Any Ladies looking for a companion for a few hrs
What's with all the lady bashing? You guys mad 'cause you don't have a pussy of your own to sell or what?
You can pay anywhere from 20 bucks to thousands for the same basic service. You look in your wallet and you get to choose. Experience makes for somewhat better choices and ...........
Then you realize that life is like a box of slugs - sometimes you get slimed........
Well, tough. You chose. You don't always know what you're going to get but more $$ usually means a better experience. Having said that, there are those who don't deliver on the promise and those who deliver greater service than what you pay for. Get over it. And while we're on the subject please stop with the rich hooker theory. Most 200 per hour girls are happy to bring in 50k per year before taxes (and yes there are girls who pay taxes because they have a home and a mortgage and credit cards which they would like to continue to enjoy and pissing off internal revenue isn't helpful in that regard). They do the minimum # of clients that lets them maintain their lifestyle because they do NOT particularly enjoy fucking fat old men. They do it to get educated, raise a child without help from father or family, because they are afraid of the "real world" and a hundred other reasons that are important only to themselves. They're nice to you because it's part of the job and it's their nature to be nice (you know, like anyone with a service oriented job)
It's an illusion (most of the time) and that's what you pay for. A half hour or hour fantasy trip that takes some of the pressure out of your daily life and transfers it to another human being who then has to find a way to cope mentally with absorbing your particular brand of neediness. Be grateful they exist.
And for God's sake lads, quit whining about the price. If you weren't standing there with your limp dick in your hand and that look of extreme need on your face, they'd never, ever get your money.
Damn, that hurts doesn't it?????
You can pay anywhere from 20 bucks to thousands for the same basic service. You look in your wallet and you get to choose. Experience makes for somewhat better choices and ...........
Then you realize that life is like a box of slugs - sometimes you get slimed........
Well, tough. You chose. You don't always know what you're going to get but more $$ usually means a better experience. Having said that, there are those who don't deliver on the promise and those who deliver greater service than what you pay for. Get over it. And while we're on the subject please stop with the rich hooker theory. Most 200 per hour girls are happy to bring in 50k per year before taxes (and yes there are girls who pay taxes because they have a home and a mortgage and credit cards which they would like to continue to enjoy and pissing off internal revenue isn't helpful in that regard). They do the minimum # of clients that lets them maintain their lifestyle because they do NOT particularly enjoy fucking fat old men. They do it to get educated, raise a child without help from father or family, because they are afraid of the "real world" and a hundred other reasons that are important only to themselves. They're nice to you because it's part of the job and it's their nature to be nice (you know, like anyone with a service oriented job)
It's an illusion (most of the time) and that's what you pay for. A half hour or hour fantasy trip that takes some of the pressure out of your daily life and transfers it to another human being who then has to find a way to cope mentally with absorbing your particular brand of neediness. Be grateful they exist.
And for God's sake lads, quit whining about the price. If you weren't standing there with your limp dick in your hand and that look of extreme need on your face, they'd never, ever get your money.
Damn, that hurts doesn't it?????
When you get down to it...
It seems to me that overall it is a pretty good marketplace. Guys get to have sex/fantasy or whatever it is they wish out of a session with an attractive and from my experience, very giving lady. There is tremendous variety and price ranges and with the existence of the boards, chances are very good that you can find the right provider. While not a perfect measure, the number of good reviews seems to far outweigh the poor, and it is likely that poorer providers can't last that long in most cases. For a variety of reasons, sex without pay may not be an option for some clients.
The vast majority of the ladies don't have the work experience or skills to earn the same standard of income in other pursuits. For some, the flexible and shorter hours assist them in taking care of children or pursiung education that will allow them to earn a good living in another vocation. Don't get me wrong the ladies I have had the pleasure of seeing have been intelligent and talented; just not in a position to capture higher paying job opportunities. Beyond that, I sense in reading the boards and talking with providers that most enjoy the work and meeting interesting people.
The above is what makes for a vibrant market; alot of buyers and sellers. Changes in price, as others have observed, occur with changes in the equilibrium; the number of buyers and sellers and their willingnes to pay or accept the existing rates (which do vary by provider).
Given current conditions it is not surprising that supply may exceed demand in the overall market calling for the need of some ladies to adjust price to generate the same level of income. Some ladies will attack them for doing so and others will recognize the issues.
It seems to me that overall it is a pretty good marketplace. Guys get to have sex/fantasy or whatever it is they wish out of a session with an attractive and from my experience, very giving lady. There is tremendous variety and price ranges and with the existence of the boards, chances are very good that you can find the right provider. While not a perfect measure, the number of good reviews seems to far outweigh the poor, and it is likely that poorer providers can't last that long in most cases. For a variety of reasons, sex without pay may not be an option for some clients.
The vast majority of the ladies don't have the work experience or skills to earn the same standard of income in other pursuits. For some, the flexible and shorter hours assist them in taking care of children or pursiung education that will allow them to earn a good living in another vocation. Don't get me wrong the ladies I have had the pleasure of seeing have been intelligent and talented; just not in a position to capture higher paying job opportunities. Beyond that, I sense in reading the boards and talking with providers that most enjoy the work and meeting interesting people.
The above is what makes for a vibrant market; alot of buyers and sellers. Changes in price, as others have observed, occur with changes in the equilibrium; the number of buyers and sellers and their willingnes to pay or accept the existing rates (which do vary by provider).
Given current conditions it is not surprising that supply may exceed demand in the overall market calling for the need of some ladies to adjust price to generate the same level of income. Some ladies will attack them for doing so and others will recognize the issues.
In hard times
there will be more women than ever trying to make up for income lost elsewhere by turning a few tricks. At the same time more "clients" are strapped for cash so the competition heats up and prices will drop. That being said, demand for services increases as more 'clients' seek shelter from the storm. It's not steak and lobster - it's beer and skittles. The 'madam' in question is no doubt aware of this and asking what the market will bear. The answer is to hold the line as long as you can and if you must, lower your rates a bit at a time until you find a survival point.
there will be more women than ever trying to make up for income lost elsewhere by turning a few tricks. At the same time more "clients" are strapped for cash so the competition heats up and prices will drop. That being said, demand for services increases as more 'clients' seek shelter from the storm. It's not steak and lobster - it's beer and skittles. The 'madam' in question is no doubt aware of this and asking what the market will bear. The answer is to hold the line as long as you can and if you must, lower your rates a bit at a time until you find a survival point.
re the comment that there is no average price.
of course there is an average price, there is ALWAYS an average price. just add up all the prices out there for 'typical sessions' and you get the average. maybe it's near impossible to calculate the average, but it always exists.
Again, you can't apply the ideas on a case by case basis, just the average.
That means that what a certain girl charges won't follow the macro supply/demand market because it is following HER supply/demand market.
BUT if you look at what the average guy pays, if he's not particularly picky about which girl he sees (note: I'm not saying he's not picky about the TYPE of girl, just that he's not picky about which girl of that type he sees), if he's paying attention to price and not just tossing money away without seeking value, then the amount he pays will follow the macro supply/demand.
That macro supply/demand is going to FORCE the market price down over the next few months, it has already started and we are seeing subtle signs of it. The trick is that the forces can't be applied to a given seller, so, it is up to the customers to seek out the best value and keep the demand focused on the best value and that will put pressure on those who are over-pricing.
There was a comment somewhere in the thread saying that the customer has no right to say a girl is 'over priced' that was sort of true and sort of not true. There is no such thing as a 'right' to say something is 'over priced'. Over priced means that the price is above the supply demand curve and therefore sales will suffer and total revenue and profit would INCREASE if the price was lower. ie: the girl would make MORE money if her price was LOWER. That is what over-priced means.
of course there is an average price, there is ALWAYS an average price. just add up all the prices out there for 'typical sessions' and you get the average. maybe it's near impossible to calculate the average, but it always exists.
Again, you can't apply the ideas on a case by case basis, just the average.
That means that what a certain girl charges won't follow the macro supply/demand market because it is following HER supply/demand market.
BUT if you look at what the average guy pays, if he's not particularly picky about which girl he sees (note: I'm not saying he's not picky about the TYPE of girl, just that he's not picky about which girl of that type he sees), if he's paying attention to price and not just tossing money away without seeking value, then the amount he pays will follow the macro supply/demand.
That macro supply/demand is going to FORCE the market price down over the next few months, it has already started and we are seeing subtle signs of it. The trick is that the forces can't be applied to a given seller, so, it is up to the customers to seek out the best value and keep the demand focused on the best value and that will put pressure on those who are over-pricing.
There was a comment somewhere in the thread saying that the customer has no right to say a girl is 'over priced' that was sort of true and sort of not true. There is no such thing as a 'right' to say something is 'over priced'. Over priced means that the price is above the supply demand curve and therefore sales will suffer and total revenue and profit would INCREASE if the price was lower. ie: the girl would make MORE money if her price was LOWER. That is what over-priced means.
^^What he said^^
What are you? Like the smartest fucking guy in the room or something?
Sweet response!
BTW, that bit about the economics of the profession (whoever that was) was pretty damned smart too. Checks out with my understanding of economics.
Great discussion here, in my view. Get's right to the heart of the matter doesn't it?
BTW, for those of you who think that doing what an escort does doesn't take intelligence, you should learn about emotional intelligence (look it up or read the book on it). It is a very real and very important type of intelligence. The best escorts will have it in spades and I can tell you (as a dude with loads of degrees all sorts of big words in my armamentarium and degrees out the ying yang), I don't have very much of that kind of intelligent. Jaime is probably right to say most of us don't have the intelligence to do this, that is the "emotional intelligence" to do this.
After all, if we did have such huge emotional intelligence, women would be paying US to fuck them. Can't be done? Well, I have read of such men (whether true or not is debatable but the word gigolo must exist for a reason...), and I know a former drifter roomie of mine who's got ridiculously high standards for women who's fucked so many women (for free mind you) that he can't even remember how many there were. More than 100 is the most he'll say. Have you fucked 100 civies who are hot in your 38 years, being just an average Canadian schmoe? I doubt it. I've managed to fuck 3. Jeez, how sad is that!!!!
Anyways, that man, has high emotional intelligence. He's never made more than 30K a year and he's still in school at the age of 38. Tell me he doesn't know something all of us don't know and I'll happily laugh in your face. I'm man enough to admit that I don't have the necessary intelligence to make this happen, are you?
That is true when dealing with service, not price.
Actually my dear, I'm pretty sure they are correct on price too. If they won't buy it because it's priced wrong (e.g. your services cost $1,000,000 / hr), you go out of business because there's no market for a product at that price. Same goes for shoes, medical services (yes some people choose to die rather than pay the price), appliances, war machines etc. It's a back and forth between suppliers and customers, but the bottom line is that if the customer doesn't pay, the supplier/producer/service provider/ manufacturer etc. goes out of business. If that isn't the very definition of the seller failing the test as to what the right "price" is, I don't know what is.
Anyone else care to weigh in on either side of the debate? Any economists in here who have a proper understanding of this. I'm mostly talking out of my ass here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right (god I love saying that
And yet for some stupid reason, conservatives always want to shut the industry down, I've never figured that one out....
I'd comment on some of the crap posts in this thread, but I just don't feel a need to.
If it was anyone of the guys looking for lower rates, how would they feel if it was their daughter doing a trick for probably 100$ an hour?
Even 300$?
Give me a break, and give the ladies their due. If you don't have the money to pay the gal, find something else to do. You are essentially using their bodies for your own pleasure and imagining that they are ok with it.
It won't be worth it to most ladies to suffer your "attention" for less, and I suspect lots will leave the industry in the next year.
Just my 2 cents.
If it was anyone of the guys looking for lower rates, how would they feel if it was their daughter doing a trick for probably 100$ an hour?
Even 300$?
Give me a break, and give the ladies their due. If you don't have the money to pay the gal, find something else to do. You are essentially using their bodies for your own pleasure and imagining that they are ok with it.
It won't be worth it to most ladies to suffer your "attention" for less, and I suspect lots will leave the industry in the next year.
Just my 2 cents.
