Would sex work get decriminalized in BC if Canadians provinces become US states

[johnywalker87]

Crazy how prostitution is illegal between two consenting adults for the exchange of money in most states in America but when it comes to the adult industry being paid to film sexual acts with consenting adults its legal. Scenes are shot in many of the same areas that escorts could be working out of. That motel with a sting operation setup could have a party of upstanding folks going at it in room 49 where they are being paid to have sex on camera to create content for hillbillycooters.com. Even in the porn industry with all the right documents being on record for each performer it still doesnt change the sex for the exchange of money fact that puts escorting in America in such illegal territory.

The online xxx adult industry is filled with consenting American women selling themselves and getting paid for their sex work on camera with consenting knowns or randoms without the worry of facing charges. Whats the big difference between getting paid to work as a sex provider out of a condo or a hotel compared to getting paid to have sex on camera in the adult industy? Even with the legality differences Its still done for the exchange of money in the xxx adult industry. Knock away all the fear factor outrage and what we have left are at two consenting adults exchanging goods for pleasure. This has been going on since the beginning of the human race. Even apes before we evolved to humans were exchanging bananas for sexual pleasures.

Few years ago there was a brothel in Prague where clients don't pay anything to sex workers , they just agree to be filmed and have their footage streamed and published online. I was wondering if such brothel would be legal here since porn is legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sister_(brothel)

 

[Crookedmember]

Yeah, I used to distinguish between conservatives and Trump supporting Republicans. But that difference pretty much died with John McCain.

It's hard to imagine a President Donald Trump if McCain hadn't opened the door to the pigsty with Sarah Palin.

 

[susi]

Not really as long the laws remain on the books cops can take action based on complaints of the neighbours don't want this business next door.
There are many other legal issues for example a landlord can evict a sex worker who has no chance of winning the dispute at BC Residential Tenancy Branch because the landlord has a good case against the tenant involved in an illegal activity. In countries like Australia and NZ where sex work is decriminalized sex workers are protected from eviction, even hotel managers cannot prevent them from doing their business.

so...to be clear...the housing legislation - known as the "Community Safety Act" in BC - is not the criminal code...so is not related to criminalization. the criminal code states nothing about housing and sex work. We have recently finished a large project on this including a law, policy and practice review. It is prohibited as part of the "specified use" clause of the Act and allows for short time evictions. Landlords and property managers have long abused these provisions and exploited sex workers in many horrible ways I will not repeat here.

Cops will not take "action" based on complaints from neighbors - sex work is not illegal in Canada and the "Lowest level of enforcement policy" speaks specifically to this kind of complaint - sex workers existing is not justification for police action - the $10 million Forsaken Report about the Missing Women in Vancouver specifically names this kind of action as unacceptable in relation to the kind of violence is causes against sex workers. The recommendations of the Forsaken Report were adopted in full by the City of Vancouver and those ideas are being adopted by more and more municipalities across the province.

These laws have also recently been deemed unconstitutional in the Yukon so are set to fall in BC too. I filed a complaint with the BC Human Rights Commission as soon as the laws were struck down in the Yukon.

I also raised this at the Continuing Committee of Federal, Provincial and Territorial Officials on Human Rights and will do so again at the next meeting in February.

So while I understand why you said what you said, it's not true....housing is a human right in Canada and a person cannot be discriminated against based on a "legal source of income" when seeking housing.

I am also currently engaged in Canadian Human Rights Commission complaint over the Landlord and property manager training by police which promotes sex worker exclusion from housing - it is antiquated and not based on current laws....

Australia also has the Crime Free Multi Housing Program which excludes sex workers and just like here - decriminalization is not a magic bullet - it does not deal with the layers of discriminatory laws, policies and practices which impact sex workers....like in housing

don't get me started on the banks....or health care....or child and family services....

We have a long way to go...but BC is way out in front of many places so to the original question....no, joining the US would not help achieve decrim.

love susie

 

[johnywalker87]

so...to be clear...the housing legislation - known as the "Community Safety Act" in BC - is not the criminal code...so is not related to criminalization. the criminal code states nothing about housing and sex work. We have recently finished a large project on this including a law, policy and practice review. It is prohibited as part of the "specified use" clause of the Act and allows for short time evictions. Landlords and property managers have long abused these provisions and exploited sex workers in many horrible ways I will not repeat here.

Cops will not take "action" based on complaints from neighbors - sex work is not illegal in Canada and the "Lowest level of enforcement policy" speaks specifically to this kind of complaint - sex workers existing is not justification for police action - the $10 million Forsaken Report about the Missing Women in Vancouver specifically names this kind of action as unacceptable in relation to the kind of violence is causes against sex workers. The recommendations of the Forsaken Report were adopted in full by the City of Vancouver and those ideas are being adopted by more and more municipalities across the province.

These laws have also recently been deemed unconstitutional in the Yukon so are set to fall in BC too. I filed a complaint with the BC Human Rights Commission as soon as the laws were struck down in the Yukon.

I also raised this at the Continuing Committee of Federal, Provincial and Territorial Officials on Human Rights and will do so again at the next meeting in February.

So while I understand why you said what you said, it's not true....housing is a human right in Canada and a person cannot be discriminated against based on a "legal source of income" when seeking housing.

I am also currently engaged in Canadian Human Rights Commission complaint over the Landlord and property manager training by police which promotes sex worker exclusion from housing - it is antiquated and not based on current laws....

Australia also has the Crime Free Multi Housing Program which excludes sex workers and just like here - decriminalization is not a magic bullet - it does not deal with the layers of discriminatory laws, policies and practices which impact sex workers....like in housing

don't get me started on the banks....or health care....or child and family services....

We have a long way to go...but BC is way out in front of many places so to the original question....no, joining the US would not help achieve decrim.

love susie

You are totally wrong, sex work is an illegal activity under criminal law as long one side is prosecuted. The fact that underage people aren't prosecuted for having sex with adults doesn't make sex with minors a legal activity ..
The landlord have the right to evict someone doing an illegal business as their clients will commit the offense of purchasing sex in their premises.
Someone who is doing an illegal activity is not protected by anti-discrimination laws.

 

[dare.devil]

I am getting confused here as both narratives from Susi and johnywalker87 seems legitimate. There ia one catch which is making me even more confused about protection and discrimination of sex worker as they cannot engage in sex work until someone is paying and doing sex which is for sure an illegal activity.

 

[susi]

You are totally wrong, sex work is an illegal activity under criminal law as long one side is prosecuted. The fact that underage people aren't prosecuted for having sex with adults doesn't make sex with minors a legal activity ..
The landlord have the right to evict someone doing an illegal business as their clients will commit the offense of purchasing sex in their premises.
Someone who is doing an illegal activity is not protected by anti-discrimination laws.

sorry, you are "totally wrong".... this is the crux of the arguments at the CHRC....they say it's decriminalized...they say we are free and have all the rights of other citizens...there are more than 169,000 sex workers in Canada.....but do we qualify for human rights? we will see.....

love susie

 

[susi]

I am getting confused here as both narratives from Susi and johnywalker87 seems legitimate. There ia one catch which is making me even more confused about protection and discrimination of sex worker as they cannot engage in sex work until someone is paying and doing sex which is for sure an illegal activity.

this is the problem with the anti sex work laws as they stand in Canada....both of us are right....and the problem becomes the "discretion" of the person interpreting the laws....it is too open and too vague...

none the less....if any sex worker in BC is being exploited by their landlord or property manager or hurt in some way, please call me....violence is illegal no matter what...if you are facing eviction based on this please call me....we can fight it completely and perhaps set a standard going forward....

love susie

 

[johnywalker87]

I am getting confused here as both narratives from Susi and johnywalker87 seems legitimate. There ia one catch which is making me even more confused about protection and discrimination of sex worker as they cannot engage in sex work until someone is paying and doing sex which is for sure an illegal activity.

This is the same situation in countries that criminalize gay people. It isn't illegal to be gay until they engage in same sex act which is an illegal activity.

 

[johnywalker87]

sorry, you are "totally wrong".... this is the crux of the arguments at the CHRC....they say it's decriminalized...they say we are free and have all the rights of other citizens...there are more than 169,000 sex workers in Canada.....but do we qualify for human rights? we will see.....

love susie

Probably they mean they are protected from eviction if they are doing outcalls or doing incalls at an agency location but if they are bringing their clients to the landlord property, they have a good case to evict them because those clients are engaged in an illegal activity.

 

[Crookedmember]

Just a little background and a hint at what we can expect from a Poilievre regime.

Prostitution bill responds to harm of sex trade, Harper says

Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s controversial prostitution legislation on Monday.

Author of the article:Mark Kennedy • Ottawa Citizen
Published Jun 09, 2014 • Last updated Jun 09, 2014


Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s proposed prostitution legislation on Monday, saying it responds to a “fundamental truth” that the sex trade is “bad” for women and Canadian society.

Harper told a news conference that the bill, unveiled last week while he was in Europe, is reflective of what Canadians want.

“We have consulted very widely on the legislation that is before Parliament,” said the prime minister. “I think the evidence is that it’s very widely supported by Canadians. In particular, as you know, we will continue to clearly criminalize the activities of pimps and johns.”

Harper was asked why he believes decriminalizing or legalizing prostitution is the wrong approach for Canada. He said the legalization of such activities “is unacceptable to Canadians and unacceptable to our government.

“I think we understand, as most Canadians understand … this fundamental truth: The activities around prostitution are illegal because they are bad and harmful for women and for society more broadly.”

Under the bill introduced last Wednesday by Justice Minister Peter MacKay, the purchase of sex will be criminalized and those who are caught by police could face heavy penalties and jail terms.

MacKay said last week the bill will get tough on the purchasers of sex and on those who exploit prostitutes, adding it is targeted at the “perverts” who are the “consumers of this degrading practice.”

Although MacKay said the government wants to protect prostitutes, whom he described as “vulnerable,” his bill also proposes to penalize them if they are found to be selling sex in a public place where it is reasonable to expect that children might be present. In those cases, the penalties for prostitutes include a jail term of up to six months, and a fine of up to $5,000.

Critics say the bill will force the sex trade underground in Canada and that prostitutes will have less time to screen their customers on dark streets, putting sex workers at increased risk of being harmed. Eventually, they predict, the bill will be struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada.

 

[susi]

Probably they mean they are protected from eviction if they are doing outcalls or doing incalls at an agency location but if they are bringing their clients to the landlord property, they have a good case to evict them because those clients are engaged in an illegal activity.

it's a separate law...part of the legacy of prohibition,etc....in BC it was enacted in 2007 and then revised and re-adopted in 2014....to add prostitution....fuckers...after the Forsaken report was written....the case for eviction is not based in the criminal code...it is the Community Safety Act, "good neighbor agreements" the prohibition of sex work and "using an intoxicating substance"....guns bombs etc...are also mentioned...but you cannot even drink in a rental property if a landlord deems they don't want it....you could be evicted within 5 days....

these are the little bits and pieces of legislation which will continue to be a barrier even after decriminalization....

here's what i wrote....they have been doing this for 30 years....more....building this discrimination into housing to the point people believe sex workers and people who use "intoxicating substances" are all the same and are a danger to society therefore need to be excluded, cast out, denied housing.....

love susie

 

[susi]

Just a little background and a hint at what we can expect from a Poilievre regime.

Prostitution bill responds to harm of sex trade, Harper says

Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s controversial prostitution legislation on Monday.

Author of the article:Mark Kennedy • Ottawa Citizen
Published Jun 09, 2014 • Last updated Jun 09, 2014


Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s proposed prostitution legislation on Monday, saying it responds to a “fundamental truth” that the sex trade is “bad” for women and Canadian society.

Harper told a news conference that the bill, unveiled last week while he was in Europe, is reflective of what Canadians want.

“We have consulted very widely on the legislation that is before Parliament,” said the prime minister. “I think the evidence is that it’s very widely supported by Canadians. In particular, as you know, we will continue to clearly criminalize the activities of pimps and johns.”
......

yeah...these guys are running on the "white slavery panic" style fear mongering approach...it is political gold... i hope people can see through the propaganda ...

love susie

 

[susi]

and just for context...here is the executive summary of the Housing Exclusion project....which the law, policy and practice review are a part of....

love susie

 

[Neelsmith1234]

Let’s do it , I am already a multi citizen

"Not a snowball's chance in hell"

 

[masterblaster]

Will never happen anyway so what’s the point of speculating?

 

[Harmony-bc]

Will never happen anyway so what’s the point of speculating?

Purely entertainment purposes 💕😘

 

[80watts]

You are totally wrong, sex work is an illegal activity under criminal law as long one side is prosecuted. The fact that underage people aren't prosecuted for having sex with adults doesn't make sex with minors a legal activity ..
The landlord have the right to evict someone doing an illegal business as their clients will commit the offense of purchasing sex in their premises.
Someone who is doing an illegal activity is not protected by anti-discrimination laws.

So.... as long as the john is not prosecuted, which means the landlord has to prove that sex was paid for; its not an illegal activity. Its just the landowner's opinion that it happened. He the landlord has to prove that it happened, but how can he if has to break the law to get proof of illegal activity.

Underage people are not prosecuted because they are seen as the victim, and the adult is the transgressor, who should know better than to have sex with a minor. So you put forth a bad example.

So a guy having an outcall at his place can be evicted by his landlord. I never heard of this happening.... (again a double standard).

So is a Sex worker at her place is not committing an illegal act, because the law says she is allowed to have sex for money; therefore what is the criminal activity she is being evicted for? Having lots of men over. If a landlord is spying on her in her rented apartment, he the landlord is breaking the law for watching and invading the Sex workers privacy.

The government should not be in anybody's bedroom. When a landlord rents out an apartment, he is not allowed to enter the apartment and violate the renters' privacy. Should he suspect illegal activity he must call the cops. Unless the rented space is a drug lab or there is suspected trafficking of minors or women; the landlord should mind his own business.

Most SP leave when the landlord harasses them.

 

[80watts]

Just a little background and a hint at what we can expect from a Poilievre regime.

Prostitution bill responds to harm of sex trade, Harper says

Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s controversial prostitution legislation on Monday.

Author of the article:Mark Kennedy • Ottawa Citizen
Published Jun 09, 2014 • Last updated Jun 09, 2014


Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended his government’s proposed prostitution legislation on Monday, saying it responds to a “fundamental truth” that the sex trade is “bad” for women and Canadian society.

Harper told a news conference that the bill, unveiled last week while he was in Europe, is reflective of what Canadians want.

“We have consulted very widely on the legislation that is before Parliament,” said the prime minister. “I think the evidence is that it’s very widely supported by Canadians. In particular, as you know, we will continue to clearly criminalize the activities of pimps and johns.”

Harper was asked why he believes decriminalizing or legalizing prostitution is the wrong approach for Canada. He said the legalization of such activities “is unacceptable to Canadians and unacceptable to our government.

“I think we understand, as most Canadians understand … this fundamental truth: The activities around prostitution are illegal because they are bad and harmful for women and for society more broadly.”

Under the bill introduced last Wednesday by Justice Minister Peter MacKay, the purchase of sex will be criminalized and those who are caught by police could face heavy penalties and jail terms.

MacKay said last week the bill will get tough on the purchasers of sex and on those who exploit prostitutes, adding it is targeted at the “perverts” who are the “consumers of this degrading practice.”

Although MacKay said the government wants to protect prostitutes, whom he described as “vulnerable,” his bill also proposes to penalize them if they are found to be selling sex in a public place where it is reasonable to expect that children might be present. In those cases, the penalties for prostitutes include a jail term of up to six months, and a fine of up to $5,000.

Critics say the bill will force the sex trade underground in Canada and that prostitutes will have less time to screen their customers on dark streets, putting sex workers at increased risk of being harmed. Eventually, they predict, the bill will be struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Why are children in a "red light district"? What the fuck are they out after 8 pm? Why are they outside a strip joint?

And it did force the sex trade underground.

As a Canadian, I find sex workers awesome.....

I find Pimping, and trafficking minors and women is along the same lines as female Republicans. Letting men dictate/force what a woman is allowed to do/think through coercion/compulsion/oppression. Or by religious dogmatic indoctrination.

PS Martin and McKay, sex workers are the oldest known profession, it is older than politicians.....

 

[SeekSteadyRegSP]

It's way less complicated to join as 10 states as the former canadian provinces will keep their existing institutions when they tranistion to become US states. It's a huge mess to merge 10 provinces into a single state and Donlad Trump wouldn't care if Canada join as a 10 states or a single state as long it will be under US jurisdiction in either case.
Also this would balance the votes as Alberta and prairies provinces would vote republican , Ontario would probably be a swing state, instead of a single big state that always vote democrat.

That is a good summation.

Although if things really evolved down that path, my vibe senses that concessions would be made to let Canada maintain "Separate but equal" semi-autonomy along the lines of the beginnings of Hong Kong after the handover.

Ergo, Canadian sex laws would likely prevail for at least a good long while.

(and Americans eager to partake wouldn't have to maintain a steady ruse in order to answer "What brings you to Canada?" each time they crossed a boundary)

Ontario would be a "swing state" for a few election cycles, and then the math would somehow unearth some more-newly-evolved "swing states" as the mainstream media assures everyone that "(the only voters that matter are those in [some combination of tiny and otherwise-irrelevant places] )".

On the bright side, Canadians would know years or decades in advance just when the elections would be held.

 

[SeekSteadyRegSP]

It's hard to imagine a President Donald Trump if McCain hadn't opened the door to the pigsty with Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin had zero to do with anything.

The only reason Trump surfaced politically is that the opposite side kept serving up complete fools as the only alternatives.

Trump, politically, is like Lia Thomas.

He completely bombed when facing a male... (who was a senile, old fool on his best days) and he beat only girls.


Now mind you, it will be fine one day when a woman does ascend to the presumed most powerful position on the planet, but it will never make sense to put her there only because she is female.

Each time Trump won, they've shown these "protests" on or near his date of entry into office, where a bunch of stupid moms bring their impressionable little daughters, and give those daughters the idea that it was merely "girls vs. boys" as a contest.

The young daughters don't know enough to discern between the non-gender-related idiocy inherent in both women Trump beat (in elections, I mean). So they are made to be extra sad that the girl lost the election.