I do not wish to take away from Punt, but I have seen this argument about affordability before, and I am sure it is correct. At least Vancouver is not expanding by paving Class 1 farmland or old growth forests.
Tackling B.C.'s housing crisis
- Thread starter Relax10
- Start date
If Vancouver is in a housing bubble --- a statement we've all heard many time over the past few years ---- what caught my attention was how high real estate has ballooned in the whole Fraser valley. Chilliwack for example, detached homes are worth as much as Vancouver, Burnaby, New West etc....$1 million plus!! Jaw dropping.
The tax free capital gains was to allow home owners to put equity into future homes and not pay capital gains on their homes.
People flipping houses are taking advantage of the system. Can't fault them.
But they are still raising the prices of homes up every year. What guy is going to buy, fix it up and sale, without making a profit on it?
Therefore the price of the house is (price of house) +(material price to fix up)= (new sales price); which has to be higher. And at the same time make money from it as a wage.
Now doing that 2 to 3 times a year, it will increase the housing market. This doesn't increase the housing market? How so? Unless your buddies are taking losses? Which I doubt.
As for government contracts: Its a given that the company that wins the bid can go back and ask for more money due to increase in materials or labour. Contacts should be written where the company profit margin will cover those expenses. Only if its more than profits can they go back and ask for more. Also on a contract the profit or wage earned by the owner of the company should be $$/100,000.00. This would decrease the overall price of the contracts.
Also in most contracts their are cost covering for the payback of getting the contract. Where they hire the gov worker who gave them the contract or pay them under the table. Which really means the contract system is very corruptible.
What this mean is that the government contract writers are fucking really bad at it, and should be fired.
As for buying up the low rental areas and selling as high priced condos. Local government should squash this practice with a 70% penalty on the contractor (hitting its profit margin). The problem here is at every level. The contractor, the sub contractors are all in it to make money. Hit those profit margins for both, and you see the price fall on construction. Also at the material level.
Look at a plumbing shop. 1 plumber makes 40/hr. and the cost by company per hour (called the shop rate is 120/hr plus material). At every level of the construction site there is a profit margin for every work/project done. Every material (pipe) has a base price, but also the price for the job which is usually 30-40 % added to base price of the pipe/material.
The system is set up for many middle men (who need wages paid, and profit paid at that level), which also increases overall cost of construction.
Pipe. Manufacturer - Wholesaler- 2nd wholesaler- Retail store- Plumbing comping- Construction site. The thing is the whole system is set up that the Plumbing store cannot order from the manufacturer. As most manufacturer have legal agreements to only sale to certain wholesalers and or to certain Retail stores. Break those chains and material prices come down.
So if you are googling stuff on internet, unless you are dealing directly with the manufacturer, you are dealing with middle men, which adds to the cost of your material.
Yes the whole fucken supply chain is skewed.....
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Or you can get a government that only imposes affordable houses or condo units for the next 15 years. With min profits for the contractors, basicly paying wages for workmen and 1 wage for the contractor plus material... With restrictions on how much those houses/condos can be resold over the next 20 years. Harsh.... but it will solve the problem, Its jus those greedy contractors won't make big profit. Which usually means they won't do it. So you get substandard construction and all the shit that goes with it (leaky condos again).
I would also be concerned of these speed construction jobs that are done. Buildings and home rushed to be built and having major problems only a few years later. This has been a common problem is several cities here and the states. Shady contracting is another issue. Add in many companies lack the man power to complete jobs which add more elements to the issues. It's like the Jeanie is out of the bottle and no one can put it back. It seems righting this ship will be a much more daunting task and possibly get much worse before it gets better.
Exactly what housing crisis are you talking about? Affordability crisis? Shortage crisis? Don't fall for the left leaning press with a secret agenda who tries to steer public opinion with these headlines about housing shortages and affordability.
For example, have you ever seen the Vancouver SUn or some local TV station interview the little old lady who sold her 60 year old house on the westside for $4 million? U never see that. All you see is a picture of a ramshackled old house that sold for $4 million and the headlines screaming about how high property prices have gone up. Then you see the same reporter stand outside a Skytrain station interviewing people about this $4 million shack that just got sold. But you never see the little old lady who owned this house get interviewed about how she likes her new retirement home that she has moved to. You never see an interview with her grandchildren who don't have to worry about student loans. anymore. You never see the press interview her children who now have more then enough down payment for a home that they can buy. (Is housing unaffordable to them? I think not). Nor her grandchildren who have enough down payment for a starter condo somewhere in the burbs.
On top of all this, does the press and Trudick govt ever reveal the truth to you? What is the truth? Well, guess what. If you are a resident or born in any of the following cities like London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Berlin, San Francisco, LA, etc. you are not getting any deals on affordable housing. Housing is just as expensive and hard to fine in those cities as it is here. This is the new reality of the world. Vancouverites should just stop their whinning and their entitlement attitudes.
All of those cities you mention have higher average salaries for its citizens.
All of those cities have better options for people living there. Better culture. Etc.
None of those cities have an empty residence problem like we have here.
Its not just the press. I’m a real person. I have numerous friends who are getting evicted or have already been. Many have already left.
it’s not entitlement to believe that people should be able to live in the city they work in. It’s not entitlement to believe the stats.
i believe that you should be able to live in our city and contribute to it and not get pushed out because we’ve commodified a basic human right.
All of those cities have better options for people living there. Better culture. Etc.
None of those cities have an empty residence problem like we have here.
Its not just the press. I’m a real person. I have numerous friends who are getting evicted or have already been. Many have already left.
it’s not entitlement to believe that people should be able to live in the city they work in. It’s not entitlement to believe the stats.
i believe that you should be able to live in our city and contribute to it and not get pushed out because we’ve commodified a basic human right.
Raise the Bank of Canada rate from 1% now to 5% or more. House prices will drop ... guaranteed.
When you turn your "belief" into a "basic human right" (which owning and/or renting a home at a certain price point is in no way shape or form a "basic human right") - that is being/demonstrating entitled/entitlement. You said it yourself...other "cities have better options..." And those "better options" are not necessarily outside of Canada, there are tons of "better options" within Canada. For some reason, usually people in Vancouver and Toronto have this "belief" that somehow "just getting by" in Vancouver or Toronto is somehow "better" and/or demonstrates "superiority" of some form than THRIVING in a Winnipeg or Regina or Thunder Bay or <insert name of any other non "large" Canadian metropolitan city>. Long story short, if your belief is such that "someone/something" (i.e. government and/or laws/regulations) should require you to have a home in Vancouver at some preferred price point - that is entitlement. You and the government cannot control demand (although governments try) and cannot control supply (although governments try). All you really can do is a) accept it and stay in a city where you "just get by" or b) actually make a change and explore your better options. Too many Vancouverites ignore option b) - to their own detriment. Ultimately, that's on you and not the government or the lack of rules or whatever.
The price of housing in Vancouver is NOT a recent phenomenon - it's basically been a "problem" since the late 80's (i.e. going on more than a generation). It's been blamed on foreign buyers/influx of immigration, all the BC weed money, money laundering, etc., etc., etc. It's not getting better - and realistically, governments are not incentivized to "make it better". Leave! That will (over time) "make it better." That is the only option if you are sick and tired of making $140,000 a year in Vancouver and can barely afford your mortgage - LEAVE! When the "young folks" leave, over time, the businesses will leave turning Vancouver into a glorified retirement community - because at the end of the day - no one can (in any meaningful way) control demand nor control supply. If you're young (and especially if you are young and have a family) - LEAVE. A household making $160k combined can easily "struggle" in Vancouver to pay a new mortgage, one car payment, childcare fees ,etc., etc., etc. Even if your young household takes a haircut and makes $135k combined in Edmonton or Regina - chances are you might even THRIVE in those cities, notwithstanding the haircut, in comparison to "just getting by" in Vancouver. Heck, chances are, you make more in Edmonton (depending on your professional) in Edmonton than you would in Vancouver anyways!
For crying out loud, Canada is a country of immigrants. Many of us are here because at some point in the past, our ancestors came here for a "better life". Take that spirit and do the same for yourself. Unlike your ancestors - chances are, you won't even have to leave your country - just Vancouver!
appleomac is spot on.
No-one has a right to housing in Vancouver.
When did it become a right????
About time to push back on those that say everyone has a right to housing in Vancouver.
There are many cities in Canada where one could live way more comfortably with an average Canadian income.
No-one has a right to housing in Vancouver.
When did it become a right????
About time to push back on those that say everyone has a right to housing in Vancouver.
There are many cities in Canada where one could live way more comfortably with an average Canadian income.
“The right to housing was recognized in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Canada formally agreed to comply with the right to housing under international human rights law in 1976 when it ratified the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.”
- from https://housingrights.ca/right-to-housing-legislation-in-canada/
It’s like the other human rights. I didn’t make it up. Folks much smarter than me work out these things.
- from https://housingrights.ca/right-to-housing-legislation-in-canada/
It’s like the other human rights. I didn’t make it up. Folks much smarter than me work out these things.
I guess some (many) people do not recognize the difference between a right to housing and a right to a 2000 sq ft home on a half acre of oceanfront.
You are making things up and/or conflating what a right entails. You have mobility rights in Canada - it doesn't mean the government has to pay for all your moving expenses if you decide to move from NB to Sask. You have freedom of speech rights in Canada - it doesn't mean the government has to buy you a newspaper printing company so that you can publish your speech. Rights mean the state cannot (with the exception of reasonable limits) impede said rights. It does NOT mean the government has to provide you with "things" to exercise said rights.
Here's a little thought experiment. If you are an 18 year old in Vancouver, you apply and get accepted to Dalhousie University (literally on the other side of Canada) and let's say you are piss poor and cannot "afford" to move to the other side of the country - have your mobility rights been violated simply because you don't have the cash to move? No. Your mobility rights give you the right to move to any part of Canada - it does NOT mean the government has to pay for it.
Long story short, a right does NOT mean the government has to provide you "things" to exercise your rights. You not being able to afford something, does NOT mean your rights have been violated.
What does that have to do with having a "right" to housing in Vancouver.
As another post has said do I have a right to ocean front property ....
I cannot afford to buy a property in Kerrisdale so do I go after the government to enforce my right to live there.
Based on Canada's social system IMHO everyone can get access to housing. Will it be in Vancouver or even in the lower mainland ..... NO.
But that does not mean any citizen in Canada cannot get access to housing.
There are many places in the rest of the world where this is not true but here in Canada the socialists have emboldened some so much that they believe living in Vancouver is a right.
Thru the eyes of 2/3 of the world "this right to housing in Vancouver" is really a first world problem.
I totally agree with calling out the poor bitching downtrodden souls who cannot afford to buy property in Vancouver, as having entitlement issues. And I have heard the same entitled fucktards say to new ESL immigrants “if you don’t like it here, move! Go home!”. Hypocrites. .
I regrettably see citizens in our lovely affluent cities of this great country having a few rather irksome rights, that fortunately have more to do with venting than deeper foundational values…
- The right to whine about shit you can’t control.
- The right to whine about the government for not giving you all the shit you think you deserve
- The right to ignore how fucking lucky you are to live here in the first place.
I find that feeling blessed about my half-full glass brings me happiness every day of my life.
-Punt.
I regrettably see citizens in our lovely affluent cities of this great country having a few rather irksome rights, that fortunately have more to do with venting than deeper foundational values…
- The right to whine about shit you can’t control.
- The right to whine about the government for not giving you all the shit you think you deserve
- The right to ignore how fucking lucky you are to live here in the first place.
I find that feeling blessed about my half-full glass brings me happiness every day of my life.
-Punt.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110001201
I don't think the avg income is 160,000.
At 160,000.00 a person working 8 hours a day for 52 week (5 days a week) needs to make 76.00 an hour. Who the fuck makes that type of money beside escorts and lawyers? Tradesmen - may be 40-60/hr.
You have to have 2 people working.
Most available jobs are the low wage jobs. So that's maybe 20/hr.
The problem is that people with money, never see what other people make. Its always a pyramid scheme, no matter what industry you are in. The people that do most of the work get paid less than the managers and bosses, who really don't fucken do anything.
Just the way it is.
So the attitude is, that if you can't afford it, move somewhere else.
The problem is the whole system from local government to federal. Can't blame it on foreign buyers, or the drug industry or money laundering; the problem is the dog eat dog attitude.
The thing is that 2 people making 20/hr each can't afford to buy a house. They usually rent. This makes it longer in order to make a decent down payment.
Yes there should be more low income housing, but the system is rigged against it. Contractors want to maximize their profits.
Here the price of a new house: cost of materials, Labour, Contractors profit margins (say 2 labourers plus contractor) x (plumber, carpenter, electrician, drywallers, painters), House contractor profit.
So meanwhile a 2 bedroom goes for 2000-3500 for rent. Rent alone at 3500/month cost 22.00/hour.
I never claimed 160k is an average income. I said, it is possible in Vancouver for a HOUSEHOLD making 160k combined (i.e. DUAL INCOME FAMILY) to struggle in Vancouver, what with a new mortgage, car payment, repayment of student loans, childcare costs, etc., etc., etc.
Just looked up rent for 2 bedroom condo in Prince George. Looks to be a low of $1,200 to a high of $1,800.
Works out to $14K TO $22K per year. Min wage is $15 per hour so 5 × 8 x $15 x 52 = $31k per year = $2,600 per month × 2 people = $5,200 per month for a couple.
At a high of $1,800 per month it represents 35% of month income.
So why do we need to build low income housing for Vancouver?
I started my career in PG cause it was an affordable place to live. I guess instead of moving there I should have enforced my entitlement to live in Vancouver on the taxpayers dime.
Works out to $14K TO $22K per year. Min wage is $15 per hour so 5 × 8 x $15 x 52 = $31k per year = $2,600 per month × 2 people = $5,200 per month for a couple.
At a high of $1,800 per month it represents 35% of month income.
So why do we need to build low income housing for Vancouver?
I started my career in PG cause it was an affordable place to live. I guess instead of moving there I should have enforced my entitlement to live in Vancouver on the taxpayers dime.
City Hall levies developement charges on every strata lot it approves. The last time I saw the Vancouver levy published, it was near 330K on the average condo. So the developer makes money, but City makes way more money, considering that you pay the City hundreds of thousands just to be taxed another 5K every year. Sweet for them!
The vacancy tax debate is just anther ploy to keep attention away from the real problem: Your painful down payment does not even cover the City levy!
To be fair, at the time I read the published levies, Surrey was "only" 68 K.
The bandits are on two wagons, very joined at the hip, laughing all the way to bank as they toss bones out for us to scrap over.
The vacancy tax debate is just anther ploy to keep attention away from the real problem: Your painful down payment does not even cover the City levy!
To be fair, at the time I read the published levies, Surrey was "only" 68 K.
The bandits are on two wagons, very joined at the hip, laughing all the way to bank as they toss bones out for us to scrap over.
Bring back manufacturing industry. You can't expect to get rich cutting each other's hair.
