Cultural Appropriation
- Thread starter Metaxa
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As I understand it, it's when someone takes a symbol of another person's culture and proceeds to mock the culture.
e.g. wearing blackface and yelling out "Where's my fried chicken and watermelon???? I got some cotton picking to do!!!"
e.g. wearing blackface and yelling out "Where's my fried chicken and watermelon???? I got some cotton picking to do!!!"
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This is super googleable.
It’s not just mocking; it’s also things like:
Making dream catchers/getting dream catcher tattoos (they’re sacred to a specific tribe and shouldn’t be created by anyone else)
Wearing black hairstyles (that have been and continue to be denied to black folx and celebrated on white folx) ESP corn rows which used to be used as maps that helped slaves escape
Supporting artists who are not from a culture but profit off of that culture’s symbols etc
And many more. Again, google it! As a general rule of thumb: if you’re not sure, just don’t do it. It’s not super difficult.
It’s not just mocking; it’s also things like:
Making dream catchers/getting dream catcher tattoos (they’re sacred to a specific tribe and shouldn’t be created by anyone else)
Wearing black hairstyles (that have been and continue to be denied to black folx and celebrated on white folx) ESP corn rows which used to be used as maps that helped slaves escape
Supporting artists who are not from a culture but profit off of that culture’s symbols etc
And many more. Again, google it! As a general rule of thumb: if you’re not sure, just don’t do it. It’s not super difficult.
It's not a political issue. It's an ignorance issue. The point of contention is how to draw a boundary between celebrating something and "mocking" it. There was some good conversation surrounding it when Jeremy Lin got dreads.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/jeremy-lin-brooklyn-nets-about-my-hair
That isn't to say that what he did was right or wrong, but different people will have different takes on it. We have to be very careful when drawing boundaries on things like that. Can you imagine if it was Asian joe schmoe who got dreads and didn't have a platform to explain his process? He would probably get vilified. Intention is obviously the best way to assess the appropriateness but that is rarely readily available given limited context in most situations.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/jeremy-lin-brooklyn-nets-about-my-hair
That isn't to say that what he did was right or wrong, but different people will have different takes on it. We have to be very careful when drawing boundaries on things like that. Can you imagine if it was Asian joe schmoe who got dreads and didn't have a platform to explain his process? He would probably get vilified. Intention is obviously the best way to assess the appropriateness but that is rarely readily available given limited context in most situations.
It's funny how cultural appropriation is usually only a problem when a larger group borrows/ uses something from a minority group.
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Yes you are. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery - at least that's what I was taught as a child. But heaven forbid you (as a white person) open a sushi restaurant - that's obviously cultural appropriation
All kidding aside, it is rather "odd" the whole idea of cultural appropriation and "confusing" as to what it actually entails. At the end of the day, mocking somebody is mocking somebody - dressing up as a samurai for Halloween, is that really mocking somebody or Japanese culture? Not necessarily, it depends. Unfortunately, the outrage culture enthusiasts wants to over-generalize "acceptable" behaviour for the sake of "just in case someone gets offended" as "being offended" apparently is the most dangerous form of violence.The only thing that making issues over "cultural appropriation" accomplishes is further division amongst society.
It's just a means to get the middle class and the lower class to fight amongst themselves while the ruling class obtains more power and wealth...while laughing at all the insanity going on below them.
It's about "assimilation", and losing one's cultural heritage and identity if we all meld our ways together in Western Society. And after 'six degrees of logic gymnastics', the end result is obviously "racism".
An example I can think of was a story about how a black girl at a college grabbed the arm of a white guy wearing dreadlocks, and started brow-beat and bully him for it. He explained he identifies with Rastafarian culture, but the Black girl wouldn't have it and continued to bully him.
....not to sound racist, but the irony of a college black girl accusing a college white guy with dreadlocks of appropriation, inside a higher level learning institution which was created by white European people? or Arabs? (can't remember, but who's appropriating who, right?).... just found the irony of that story funny enough to remember.
To the issue itself, it's dumb.... if the West is to be the pinnacle of multiculturalism, other ethnic groups should be flattered other groups adopt their ways, learn from each other and build on a new identity. not the other way around.....otherwise, if that kind of preservation is important to them, then mmmmmmaybe...they...should.....go ba--......nvm......
Okay, I wanted to bite my tongue on this thread, but Big Guy Rye's post has prompted me to jump in the fray....
Sorry, but "the issue itself, it's dumb," is not dumb. It's just that you don't understand it, and that is fine. It's outside of your experience. It's just like String Theory in physics is outside of the experience of most people, but that doesn't mean it's "dumb."
I gotta give Charlee props for being (what I'm assuming to be) a white woman and extremely politically astute. Her explanation was bang on and shows that she has done her homework and has empathy for people of colour.
The example Big Guy gives about the black girl giving a white guy with dreadlocks the bizness for his dreads on the surface may seem counter intuitive, because isn't the white guy with dreads an ally of the black girl. Well, yes and no.
Dreadlocks in the modern era, as we have come to know them, trace back to the Rastafarian movement popularized by Bob Marley. They were, and are, a symbol of black resistance against systemic racism and supremicist world whose legacy is colonialism and all of the seeds it has sowed (which manifest today in the form of KKK, police, FBI etc). So in essence, what the black woman was saying to the dreaded white dude is that he has no idea of the experience of any black person (he has social mobility, doesn't have to fear for his life when stopped by a police officer, doesn't have to fear for his life when walking through a white neighbourhood, doesn't have to fear that some white woman is going to call the cops on him because he is bird watching). So to take the symbol of black pride and resistance and pretend that he has lived that by wearing his hair dreads, is an insult to those who are in that movement and who have died in that movement. That is cultural appropriation. He can cut those dreads and still be a white person with all the privilege that being white confers upon a person who is white. A black man, or woman, can cut their dreads and they will still be subject to all the racism of being black that exists in Canada and the US - they cannot not be black.
Another example of cultural appropriation is rap music. Originally started as an art form that pushed back against the colonial structure of police, poverty and systemic racism, it was later adopted by "cool white kids" in the suburbs who had no inkling of the roots of the music. Yes, they could identify intellectually with that poverty, but it was not a lived experience. And in essence, what the Beastie Boys and Eminem did was appropriate that experience for profit, despite their best of intentions.
And Big Guy, I don't think you're racist. I just think that the scenario you describe is beyond your experience and you cannot empathize with it. I don't know if you're white brown or yellow, I just know that if you slowed down and listened to what people outside of your experience (black, brown, female, trans, gay) were saying, you wouldn't mock their experience and words, but empathize and say, "you know what, I hear you and now I understand." It’s the same as if Charlee or Ms Hunter told me of their experience with sexism. I could mansplain to them that sexism doesn’t exist, or I can just STFU and really listen to their experience to try and understand it.
It takes a big person to admit that they may have been wrong and are learning as they go - not everyone is capable or wants to.
Contrary to how Wet Nose defined cultural appropriation, it is not "mocking" that culture. "Mocking" a culture is just straight up racism. Cultural Appropriation is adopting a culture not yours as your own (in which you have no lived experience) and profiting from it in some way (whether it be money, status, or identification).
And Uncled, you can do all those things, and it's when you start claiming Kung Fu as your own, say you invented Mexican food, start telling Chinese how to cook Chinese food, saying you invented the kayak, that it becomes cultural appropriation. People of colour are flattered when another culture partakes in their culture, it's when the dominant culture starts telling First Nations how to be more First Nations, or Chinese how to be more Chinese, or Blacks how to be more Black, that the more political in those groups get their dander up. And justifiably so.
Sorry, but "the issue itself, it's dumb," is not dumb. It's just that you don't understand it, and that is fine. It's outside of your experience. It's just like String Theory in physics is outside of the experience of most people, but that doesn't mean it's "dumb."
I gotta give Charlee props for being (what I'm assuming to be) a white woman and extremely politically astute. Her explanation was bang on and shows that she has done her homework and has empathy for people of colour.
The example Big Guy gives about the black girl giving a white guy with dreadlocks the bizness for his dreads on the surface may seem counter intuitive, because isn't the white guy with dreads an ally of the black girl. Well, yes and no.
Dreadlocks in the modern era, as we have come to know them, trace back to the Rastafarian movement popularized by Bob Marley. They were, and are, a symbol of black resistance against systemic racism and supremicist world whose legacy is colonialism and all of the seeds it has sowed (which manifest today in the form of KKK, police, FBI etc). So in essence, what the black woman was saying to the dreaded white dude is that he has no idea of the experience of any black person (he has social mobility, doesn't have to fear for his life when stopped by a police officer, doesn't have to fear for his life when walking through a white neighbourhood, doesn't have to fear that some white woman is going to call the cops on him because he is bird watching). So to take the symbol of black pride and resistance and pretend that he has lived that by wearing his hair dreads, is an insult to those who are in that movement and who have died in that movement. That is cultural appropriation. He can cut those dreads and still be a white person with all the privilege that being white confers upon a person who is white. A black man, or woman, can cut their dreads and they will still be subject to all the racism of being black that exists in Canada and the US - they cannot not be black.
Another example of cultural appropriation is rap music. Originally started as an art form that pushed back against the colonial structure of police, poverty and systemic racism, it was later adopted by "cool white kids" in the suburbs who had no inkling of the roots of the music. Yes, they could identify intellectually with that poverty, but it was not a lived experience. And in essence, what the Beastie Boys and Eminem did was appropriate that experience for profit, despite their best of intentions.
And Big Guy, I don't think you're racist. I just think that the scenario you describe is beyond your experience and you cannot empathize with it. I don't know if you're white brown or yellow, I just know that if you slowed down and listened to what people outside of your experience (black, brown, female, trans, gay) were saying, you wouldn't mock their experience and words, but empathize and say, "you know what, I hear you and now I understand." It’s the same as if Charlee or Ms Hunter told me of their experience with sexism. I could mansplain to them that sexism doesn’t exist, or I can just STFU and really listen to their experience to try and understand it.
It takes a big person to admit that they may have been wrong and are learning as they go - not everyone is capable or wants to.
Contrary to how Wet Nose defined cultural appropriation, it is not "mocking" that culture. "Mocking" a culture is just straight up racism. Cultural Appropriation is adopting a culture not yours as your own (in which you have no lived experience) and profiting from it in some way (whether it be money, status, or identification).
And Uncled, you can do all those things, and it's when you start claiming Kung Fu as your own, say you invented Mexican food, start telling Chinese how to cook Chinese food, saying you invented the kayak, that it becomes cultural appropriation. People of colour are flattered when another culture partakes in their culture, it's when the dominant culture starts telling First Nations how to be more First Nations, or Chinese how to be more Chinese, or Blacks how to be more Black, that the more political in those groups get their dander up. And justifiably so.
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To understand something is rather important I agree. What almost never helps in understanding something is to assume something. Like assuming the reason a particular white person chose dreadlocks as their hair style. Or assuming why a particular black female was trying to say by confronting said white person. If you don't know why person A confronted person B about a particular hairstyle, wouldn't it be better not to assume? By assuming are you not just showing us that you do not understand what may or may not be going on with said black female and white male? Or, what is often the case with these types of things, aren't you simply projecting?
As a disclaimer, I did not know the history of dreadlocks prior to this. I have never worn my hair in dreadlocks. I have known a number of non-black people (both males and females) that have at one point wore their hair in dreadlocks. Our black acquaintances/friends did not accuse said white friends as culturally appropriating anything. And I cannot be certain, but said white friends that did have their hair in dreadlocks (as far as I know) were not trying to pretend they have had certain experiences - I think they just liked how they looked in it, but again, I actually do not know, but I will certainly ask them as opposed to project onto them why they chose a particular hairstyle. Oddly enough, one of my female friends got her dreadlocks done while we were on vacation in the Caribbean, on the encouragement of one of the locals who owned a hair salon. Would that make said local hair stylist an enabler of cultural appropriation?
Thanks Applemac for your response.
I’ve known plenty of black, white, yellow, brown people who are apolitical and not aware of the nuances of race and racism. That may have been the case with the hair stylist - or she just may have been trying to make a buck- I don’t know. I was like that at one point in my life too. “We’re in Canada and we’re all multi-culti and isn’t it beautiful.”And your statement of “liked how they looked” is the epitome of appropriation. Appropriation, whether conscious or not, is adopting the culture of another without true understanding of the history or f that culture.
I get the sense that you’re pushing back against the assertion that there is systemic racism in Canada. If so, explain why First Nations make up about 4% of Canada’s population and 23% of the prison population. Or how there can be almost 100 missing or murdered (mostly indigenous ) women on the Highway of Tears and nothing done about it. And yet when Peter Ladner’s sister is murdered on the UBC endowment Lands that there is a months long investigation and numerous rewards for information. And don’t get me wrong, Wendy’s life is important, but Applemac please explain the difference to me of the prison population or Highway of tears if not systemic racism.
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Why are more men incarcerated then women in this country? Is the criminal justice system sexist towards men? As it relates to First Nations representation in the prison system, I would gander it's rooted in socioeconomic factors. Much like ones level of physical health to a large degree correlates to ones income level (i.e. apparently the stats show that if you have more money you are physically more healthy), crime is also correlated with income levels. Unfortunately, First Nations people in this country are statistically poorer then the general population. Unfortunately, one byproduct of a poorer demographic being imprisoned more is a perception issue that said poorer population is inherently criminal - ergo racist sentiment towards said poorer demographic. I'm no expert on the Highway of Tears, but if a bunch of any ethnic/racial group of people go missing in a relatively remote area - that's always going to be a difficult crime to solve. Remote areas lack one of the most important factors in solving crime - witnesses. But again, I'm no ace detective. What I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that poverty and crime will not be solved by trying to shame some random white guy about his choice of hairstyle - no matter how much you project/assume motivations as to why a particular person chooses a particular hairstyle. If crime and poverty can be eliminated by someone having a certain type of hairstyle - I'll be the first volunteer to get said hairstyle!
With all due respect WTF are you talking about?
How do you think Indigenous and Black people became poor? Do you think it is because they are inferior to white people? Or could it be because white people capitalized on something called slavery and tried to wipe out First Nations with something called smallpox.
Remote areas have nothing to do with the fact that there has been little movement on more than 100 missing or murdered indigenous women. If there were 100 murdered White people you can bet that the crime would have been resolved by now.
No one is saying that crime or poverty can be resolved by a hairstyle. The OP posed the question about cultural appropriation and I was just trying to provide some insight. But true to form of any Dude of a dominant position you choose not to listen to the experience of anyone beneath your in the hierarchy because acknowledging your privilege is a perceived threat to your position. It’s the same way I was when a feminist would challenge my privilege as a male. I would resist with a lot of clever semantics, but what I was really doing was invalidating her experience. When I learned to really listen, that is when I started to grow as a person.
And frankly, that’s why so many people of color say “it’s not my job to educate white people about racism.” Because it’s so exhausting trying to have a conversation when the other side is trying to trip you up with semantics.
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I don't even know how to answer this question. It's partially my own belief system that sort of disagrees with the premise of the question to begin with. Forget about the First Nations aspect of the question for one moment, I do not inherently believe that society owes me anything, per se. Take healthcare, the Government provides it, and if need it I use it. But I do not look at healthcare as something I am owed by the government and/or society. I like the idea of universal healthcare and education and all the other "things" government funds/provides in Canada. That said, I've lived/worked abroad in countries that didn't have universal healthcare - truth be told, my life wasn't all that different whether I had it or not. So, what does society owe anyone of us? I really don't know. And therefore I don't know what First Nations people in this country are "owed' and/or how society writ large failed them. I was born into a dirt poor family, my parents are immigrants and no one would ever confuse as being a "white guy." Some might say it's unfortunate (some might say I'm lucky) but my folks always raised me in a very blunt and pragmatic manner in that from a very young age I was taught that I would be looked at differently and that I might need to work harder than others to "prove" that I'm just as Canadian as the next guy. In essence, don't whine about life not being fair - it never was and never will be totally and completely fair. They basically taught me to focus my energies on those things that I could control. I couldn't control that all my friends got allowances or had nicer things than me, so I got a paper route as a boy to get my own money. Probably blabbered on too much and didn't answer your question really. Again, I don't know where society failed First Nations people in this country.
You're assuming so much. With all due respect, you ask a question, I answer and you don't like the answer so you pivot away and ask a different question. You ask why First Nations people are incarcerated at high rates vis a vis other demographics and I give you the best answer I can give you. And now the question is WTF, how did they become poor??? I haven't the faintest idea why one household is poorer than another. I can assure you though, if you come across a First Nations household that is in a poorer income bracket, I don't believe it was due to small pox infected blankets from centuries ago or because of slavery. I was born into a dirt poor family, I can tell you why my folks were poor - they lacked education and when they immigrated to Canada, they lacked solid English language skills as well. Were they called names and racist slurs, they sure did experience that, as did I growing up. I simply choose not to use that particular lived experience as a crutch to complain/explain how society is not completely perfect and completely just and completely fair.
