Another Bike Lane - Cambie Street Bridge

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
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Actually 10% (and growing) of Vancouverites' work commutes are by bicycle, just over 40% by foot and transit and just less than 50% by car - good to get your stats right first.

Second, the bike lane is being created in a response to an increase in accidents. The wide sidewalks were designed with pedestrians in mind, but not cyclists, and pedestrian traffic peaked at 3200 pedestrians last year on a midweek day. The cost is $600,000 for the bike lane compared to $60,000,000 for a cantilevered extension or a $100,000,000 for a stand alone bridge.

Transportation planning in North America started abandoning the car first model in 1973 - but even so, the car capacity of the bridge is twice that of the streets it connects to at the north and south end, meaning losing the lane will result in no increase of car congestion.

As a side note - a pedestrian was killed in a crosswalk in Burnaby earlier this week and the following day a cyclist was hit by a turning car within meters of the first accident - why aren't you guys screaming bloody murder about it!
nice cherry picking

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016029/98-200-x2016029-eng.cfm

public trans 20.4
car pooling 11.2
walking 6.7
bike 2.3

pretty sure that says CAR

or don't you believe that census that was so needed

or do you never watch your local news traffic reports in the mornings, lol
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,544
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In Lust Mostly
nice cherry picking

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016029/98-200-x2016029-eng.cfm

public trans 20.4
car pooling 11.2
walking 6.7
bike 2.3

pretty sure that says CAR

or don't you believe that census that was so needed

or do you never watch your local news traffic reports in the mornings, lol
Nice catch.

I had heard the largest metropolis in North America using bicycles is Portland OR at 6%. Being a frequent visitor to Portland during work weeks and weekends, it is clear to me they really do use their bike paths which are done in a way NOT totally to the detriment of vehicle traffic.

Hearing these claims of 10% by Moonbeam's team never seemed to be correct. Anyone travelling by car in the downtown core this past week during the monsoon rains will testify to the total absence of bikes everywhere.
 

nwtl

daffodil fairy
Aug 24, 2016
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I think more people died in Ontario last year, than people commuted on a bicycle to work in Vancouver in a year.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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The stats you are quoting from StatsCan are reflective of the metro region, not Vancouverites. The increased car traffic is generated from the burbs.
If you do a google search and spend five minutes reading you can educate yourselves on the habits of Vancouverites. Portland used to lead North America in cycling commuting, but we passed them two years ago.
 

ddcanz

curmudgeon
Feb 27, 2012
2,687
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right here and now
The cost is $60,000,000 for a cantilevered extension QUOTE]
OK- please expand on this statement.
I call BS.
A 6' wide cantilevered bike way, in conjunction with an existing sidewalk, and then guardrail removal to achieve safe 2-way bike traffic?
60% of your projected $100,000,000 cost for a stand alone new cyclists bridge?
Then the Consulting and QA teams should be fired for gross incompetency.
 

FreeG

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2015
551
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1. "the more bike lanes we build, the more bikes will appear on them magically out of thin air, so let's just build as much as possible"

2. "further narrowing bottlenecks of a city (like bridges) by assigning lanes to bikes, bike sharing stations, planters, or anything else you can think of, is a very logical and natural thing to do"

3. "if we take away parking spots on streets, cars will just vanish into thin air, and we will be more green"

4. "if we allow high density towers yet do not require them to build underground parking accordingly, people will still move in and just won't own cars since they won't have spots"

5. "if we make it as expensive, slow, inconvenient and frustrating as possible to drive to places in Vancouver, people will embrace bikes and we will be more green... businesses won't hurt or anything either"

6. "it is completely conceivable for a mother to take her 2 children to school every morning on a bike, or shop at Costco and bring home the 4 huge boxes on a bike, specially in the rain"

7. "people will ride their bikes to work from suburbs and still show up to work in a suit and tie, oh sure we will have showers in every office building and everyone will have 2 sets of clothes and shower at work again every morning, and if you are wondering, no we don't care about the extra water usage, lowered work productivity, practicality of ten/hundred of people all showering at an office at once in the AM, etc."

8. "it's just fine not requiring identifying plates on bicycles, it's not like if a cyclist gets into any situation or accident we'd need to be able to identify him on scene or anything like that"

9. "it's perfectly fine for cyclists not to require any operating lessons to obey the rules of the road, and they can pretend to be pedestrians, cars, and anything in between as it pleases them"

10. "it's perfectly fine for the police to not reprimand cyclists for gross infractions of traffic rules they witness, because after all how do you follow, identify or stop a cyclist if you're in a police car in traffic because the street has only 1.5 lanes left and the cyclist is still on the road for some reason and maneuvering between cars stuck in traffic?"

11. "who needs insurance for cyclists? it's not like they're ever the ones at fault in any collision or damage caused to property, or a person on foot, in a car, etc. - they're always the victim"
Some are your points are well-taken but some are definitely not. I consider myself a semi-serious cyclist and have been competitively and non-competitively biking for about 20 yrs.

1. Bike lanes truly do need to be constructed where it makes sense. For some areas, a separate lane may be best. In others, painted lines are appropriate (for example, a road that's already fairly busy & slow moving doesn't warrant a physically separate lane; cyclists will come close to matching the speeds of the cars).

2. Point taken. Not every road needs a separate lane/station.

3, 4, 5, 6 - I'm in agreement. I drive most of the time because of work & personal requirements. Sufficient parking affects everybody (except the people living next door to the store). On the flip side, have you ever lived in NYC/London/Europe? Parking is worse there; friends I know who live in NYC don't own a car at all (but they DO have the public transportation to support that choice! And the money they save daily allows them to pay for occasional trips or deliveries when needed)

7. COMPLETELY bogus! Its done in Europe (where the weather is just as shitty), it can be done here! When I do commute, I might shower half the time (due to time constraints). If I can't shower, I close the door to my office, wet a towel to wipe off, wash my face in the bathroom sink, and have a change of clothes. All you need is a stall and it takes <5min.
Lowered work productivity? You haven't biked to work then - I come in far more energized, I've planned out my day or worked thru problems while riding, no need for a starter-coffee (tho I never turn one down!). Also, MOST cyclists probably don't smoke (THERE is a loss of productivity) and are likely healthier (along with other folks who exercise) than those who don't exercise, getting sick less. I look around the office at the 15 or so folks who (predominanty) don't exercise at all and they have FAR more sick days than those who do and are constantly complaining about aches & pains.

8. That's common sense (ID should be on the cyclist, not the bike). iPhones have a feature for EMTs to activate personal information on the phone and everyone should have ID (same goes for runners, kayakers, hikers, pedestrians, etc etc.)

9. Cyclists should act like cars, period. (OK, I'll admit, I don't 100% always, but like anyone who does a rolling stop or goes thru a yellow in a car, its a calculated risk based on what else is going on around me).

10. I have found police tend to side AGAINST the cyclist more often than not. Besides the videos & anecdotes online, I've seen it myself in the US and here. The width of a lane should not preclude police from doing the right thing (they'd pull over a car in the same spot, would they not? Or direct them to a safer spot if warranted; at least a cyclist can pull onto the sidewalk).

11. Every cyclist should have insurance (if you ride in a organized club/group rides, you're required to have a license which includes insurance). Sadly, even if the cyclist IS at fault, its small consolation when you're going against a 4000lb vehicle... The average cyclist of average intelligence and self-preservation knows this and will ride defensively.

The ones that probably catch your attention may be: homeless, young adults (who are bulletproof, as we all know), completely oblivious (we used to learn the rules of the road in school but don't think they do anymore), or simply self-righteous, etc etc. Trust me, they annoy me and other responsible cyclists just as much as they annoy you and any other non-cyclist.
 

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
1,826
442
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The stats you are quoting from StatsCan are reflective of the metro region, not Vancouverites. The increased car traffic is generated from the burbs.
If you do a google search and spend five minutes reading you can educate yourselves on the habits of Vancouverites. Portland used to lead North America in cycling commuting, but we passed them two years ago.
lol, like I said

Cherry Picking
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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The cost is $60,000,000 for a cantilevered extension QUOTE]
OK- please expand on this statement.
I call BS.
A 6' wide cantilevered bike way, in conjunction with an existing sidewalk, and then guardrail removal to achieve safe 2-way bike traffic?
60% of your projected $100,000,000 cost for a stand alone new cyclists bridge?
Then the Consulting and QA teams should be fired for gross incompetency.
The city already did a cost estimate for both options and the options as well as costs were referenced in the council meeting when the current proposal was passed.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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43
lol, like I said

Cherry Picking
This whole thread is about Vancouver proper - not Delta, Mapleridge or West Vancouver - so why not use the stats that matter?

Most of my social circle are Vancouverites and the consensus (also held by the media i.e. Frances Bula) is that the majority of people that are constantly bitching about bike routes, cyclists, pedestrians, traffic calming and density in Vancouver aren't Vancouver residents.
Gregor Robertson won three consecutive terms in office because he supported the ideals of Vancouverites. On issues beyond 'bike lanes' Vancouver's last four mayors (going back to 1993) have supported policies unpopular in the suburbs like harm reduction, transit and ecodensity.
 

ddcanz

curmudgeon
Feb 27, 2012
2,687
20
38
right here and now
The city already did a cost estimate for both options and the options as well as costs were referenced in the council meeting when the current proposal was passed.
Wow. :suspicious:
I take serious issue with the numbers related to a cantilevered solution. This equates to +/- $50,000/meter ($17,000/ft.) per section- design/supply/install.
As someone who is involved with multi-million dollar Civil projects in the Municipal, industrial/commercial, Education and Health sectors across the GVA and Lower Mainland these figures seem inflated and unrealistic- in fact, the type of numbers that would push an agenda in a particular direction.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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Just read the Vancouver Sun article on council's approving the bike lane. It contains all the quotes.
 

tedsweettangv

Active member
May 5, 2006
731
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Vancouver
Over the last 5 years bike traffic over the Cambie street bridge is up over 300%. I don't know if that means it used to be one guy and now it is 3 but whatever. Car traffic is down 57% and the big problem isn't the bridge it is that the intersections at both sides can't handle the traffic. Adding a bike lane will not impact traffic throughput of the bridge. Also less bike lanes don't mean less bikes, they just mean more bikes in traffic.
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,544
308
83
In Lust Mostly
1. "the more bike lanes we build, the more bikes will appear on them magically out of thin air, so let's just build as much as possible"

2. "further narrowing bottlenecks of a city (like bridges) by assigning lanes to bikes, bike sharing stations, planters, or anything else you can think of, is a very logical and natural thing to do"

3. "if we take away parking spots on streets, cars will just vanish into thin air, and we will be more green"

4. "if we allow high density towers yet do not require them to build underground parking accordingly, people will still move in and just won't own cars since they won't have spots"

5. "if we make it as expensive, slow, inconvenient and frustrating as possible to drive to places in Vancouver, people will embrace bikes and we will be more green... businesses won't hurt or anything either"

6. "it is completely conceivable for a mother to take her 2 children to school every morning on a bike, or shop at Costco and bring home the 4 huge boxes on a bike, specially in the rain"

7. "people will ride their bikes to work from suburbs and still show up to work in a suit and tie, oh sure we will have showers in every office building and everyone will have 2 sets of clothes and shower at work again every morning, and if you are wondering, no we don't care about the extra water usage, lowered work productivity, practicality of ten/hundred of people all showering at an office at once in the AM, etc."

8. "it's just fine not requiring identifying plates on bicycles, it's not like if a cyclist gets into any situation or accident we'd need to be able to identify him on scene or anything like that"

9. "it's perfectly fine for cyclists not to require any operating lessons to obey the rules of the road, and they can pretend to be pedestrians, cars, and anything in between as it pleases them"

10. "it's perfectly fine for the police to not reprimand cyclists for gross infractions of traffic rules they witness, because after all how do you follow, identify or stop a cyclist if you're in a police car in traffic because the street has only 1.5 lanes left and the cyclist is still on the road for some reason and maneuvering between cars stuck in traffic?"

11. "who needs insurance for cyclists? it's not like they're ever the ones at fault in any collision or damage caused to property, or a person on foot, in a car, etc. - they're always the victim"
Some are your points are well-taken but some are definitely not. I consider myself a semi-serious cyclist and have been competitively and non-competitively biking for about 20 yrs.

1. Bike lanes truly do need to be constructed where it makes sense. For some areas, a separate lane may be best. In others, painted lines are appropriate (for example, a road that's already fairly busy & slow moving doesn't warrant a physically separate lane; cyclists will come close to matching the speeds of the cars).

2. Point taken. Not every road needs a separate lane/station.

3, 4, 5, 6 - I'm in agreement. I drive most of the time because of work & personal requirements. Sufficient parking affects everybody (except the people living next door to the store). On the flip side, have you ever lived in NYC/London/Europe? Parking is worse there; friends I know who live in NYC don't own a car at all (but they DO have the public transportation to support that choice! And the money they save daily allows them to pay for occasional trips or deliveries when needed)

7. COMPLETELY bogus! Its done in Europe (where the weather is just as shitty), it can be done here! When I do commute, I might shower half the time (due to time constraints). If I can't shower, I close the door to my office, wet a towel to wipe off, wash my face in the bathroom sink, and have a change of clothes. All you need is a stall and it takes <5min.
Lowered work productivity? You haven't biked to work then - I come in far more energized, I've planned out my day or worked thru problems while riding, no need for a starter-coffee (tho I never turn one down!). Also, MOST cyclists probably don't smoke (THERE is a loss of productivity) and are likely healthier (along with other folks who exercise) than those who don't exercise, getting sick less. I look around the office at the 15 or so folks who (predominanty) don't exercise at all and they have FAR more sick days than those who do and are constantly complaining about aches & pains.

8. That's common sense (ID should be on the cyclist, not the bike). iPhones have a feature for EMTs to activate personal information on the phone and everyone should have ID (same goes for runners, kayakers, hikers, pedestrians, etc etc.)

9. Cyclists should act like cars, period. (OK, I'll admit, I don't 100% always, but like anyone who does a rolling stop or goes thru a yellow in a car, its a calculated risk based on what else is going on around me).

10. I have found police tend to side AGAINST the cyclist more often than not. Besides the videos & anecdotes online, I've seen it myself in the US and here. The width of a lane should not preclude police from doing the right thing (they'd pull over a car in the same spot, would they not? Or direct them to a safer spot if warranted; at least a cyclist can pull onto the sidewalk).

11. Every cyclist should have insurance (if you ride in a organized club/group rides, you're required to have a license which includes insurance). Sadly, even if the cyclist IS at fault, its small consolation when you're going against a 4000lb vehicle... The average cyclist of average intelligence and self-preservation knows this and will ride defensively.

The ones that probably catch your attention may be: homeless, young adults (who are bulletproof, as we all know), completely oblivious (we used to learn the rules of the road in school but don't think they do anymore), or simply self-righteous, etc etc. Trust me, they annoy me and other responsible cyclists just as much as they annoy you and any other non-cyclist.
I've read nwtl's post a few times and am of the opinion he is posting very tongue in cheek. Actually a great post taking the piss out of the "Make Vancouver Great Again Cycling Zealots" :p

On the subject of 'Vancouver Polling or Cycling Statistics "

Would anyone believe anything coming from City Hall who are actively trying to square their own objectives with what the majority of people sitting in cars viewing empty bike lanes think? Moonbeam's office would never get bogged down in real facts when then can simply put on a website that Cycling stats are what they want them to be. 10% of all commuters? This number makes zero sense when looked at vs all the transit users and vehicles lined up trying to get to work.
 

Hugh Jass

Banned
May 11, 2015
306
1
16
There is ABSOLUTELY no need for a bike lane on the Cambie Street Bridge having driven over it today . I believe it has been mentioned before but there are sidewalks on both sides of the bridge...one can be for bikes, the other for foot traffic, and the taxpayers save $600000...but that doesnt fit the agenda of City Hall or the cycling elites... whose mentality is on display on this very board! Believing any cycling statistics coming out of City Hall publications is akin to believing that Donald Trump will actually Make America Great Again but that wont stop them from drinking the koolaid.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
189
43
There is ABSOLUTELY no need for a bike lane on the Cambie Street Bridge having driven over it today . I believe it has been mentioned before but there are sidewalks on both sides of the bridge...one can be for bikes, the other for foot traffic, and the taxpayers save $600000...but that doesnt fit the agenda of City Hall or the cycling elites... whose mentality is on display on this very board! Believing any cycling statistics coming out of City Hall publications is akin to believing that Donald Trump will actually Make America Great Again but that wont stop them from drinking the koolaid.
Your mention of Trump is fitting based on the fact that you keep repeating yourself.

Transportation planning in Vancouver is based on data collection and analysis, not casual observation.

As an aside, it is interesting to note that the three Northshore municipalities, upon the suggestion of a North Vancouver MLA, are finally going to undertake a coordinated transportation planning project to try and alleviate their transportation issues. They will be using the same data collection methods as is used in Vancouver and also states its objective as developing an integrated transportation approach that is environmentally progressive, values safety, and improves the movement of people and goods. All modes of transportation are being considered, including rail, transit, cycling, walking and cars.

Personally I am done with this topic.
 

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
1,826
442
83
This whole thread is about Vancouver proper - not Delta, Mapleridge or West Vancouver - so why not use the stats that matter?
cause just like other areas in Canada, urban sprawl is the issue

you can't talk about Van without including the area

just like here in Edm, or Toronto now, there is no seperation between burbs, worth talking about

no one tells me they're from Delta, West Vancouver, they say Vancouver

or do you think people stop at the line that separates the actual city limits? ffsk

your semantic bullshit is just a pathetic excuse for justifying a waste of limited resources that don't produce what the dreamers wish you to believe it will

just like with the other myths about electric cars, self-driving, renewables, ect.....

look at the facts, they, they don't live up to the hype, or the cost-benefit that is always spout by the usual suspects

you don't seem to be done, other thread, is there video of all these so called 1.3million rides a yr? lol

or was it a guy out there a few hrs a day, extrapolating :twitch:

and how many of those rides were the same person going the other way on that bridge? :yawn:
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts