Petition urges restrictions on foreign investors buying Vancouver homes

[huggzy]

100% in. And I work in the construction industry...its way more than the 30-35% estimates these "experts" give.

The petition now has more that 17,000 signatures on it...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/petition-urges-restrictions-on-foreign-investors-buying-vancouver-homes-1.2365131

Amid soaring real estate prices, a new petition is calling on British Columbia lawmakers to restrict foreign investment in Vancouver’s housing market.

The petition demands B.C. Premier Christy Clark, Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson and other city councillors and mayors introduce legislation to restrict foreign buyers by the end of the year.

"It's time to stand up and protect our community – Vancouver is not for sale," the petition says. "The housing needs of Greater Vancouver residents are more important than the profit margins of foreign speculators."


Since it was launched on April 3 the petition has collected more than 1,600 signatures.

It's a common complaint among prospective home buyers who feel that they are being priced out of the market by wealthy foreign investors.

Vancouver House, a high-profile condominium tower, is nearly sold out and a full 35 per cent of the units were purchased by foreign buyers. Starting prices for units were listed at $549,800.

Anson Realty said it's seen similar figures among its client base.

"Right now I think we're looking at about 70-30, 30 to foreign and 70 to locals," realtor Grace Kwok told CTV Vancouver.

Some experts are suggesting ways the government can intervene to help keep home prices within the reach of locals.

UBC professor of geography, Dr. David Ley, has been studying how governments have approached the issue in Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney and London.

He said one step some cities have taken is to levy stiff taxes on high-end properties, which can help push down prices.

"If you can cool off the high-end house prices, the top end of the market, that will have ripple effects throughout," he said.

In Australia, the government is charging stiff fees to foreign investors, and threatening fines and punishments for those who break the rules.

Last March, the Australian government forced the sale of a Sydney mansion it alleges was illegally bought by Chinese investors.

The B.C. Chamber of Commerce has also weighed in on the issue, calling on the government to increase the property transfer tax on foreign buyers.

But the province's deputy premier, Rich Coleman, said the government has no plans to interfere with the market.

"Our economy has been built on immigration and people moving here and feeling comfortable they can invest in our country. It's not come up as an issue for us," he said.

A March report found that the average price of a detached home in Vancouver and Toronto rose past the $1 million mark.

 

[huggzy]

Yeah, I think it's brilliant ; but only after I've sold my property.

. first

Of course. Who cares about your fellow Canadians when you can sell out Canadian land to foreign interests to profit oneself right?

 

[huggzy]

Fuck-it !
Cash_in and move to Rossland : )

or point bob

I really am hoping the world's economies crash on all you selfish turds. I really do.

 

[se7landrover97]

I think this is a weak argument. We all have to remember that Vancouver would have not been what it is today without all this investors. Look at Yaletown, for instance. 20 years ago, its nothing. Without this HK developer coming in to develop that area, maybe we would not be enjoying it right now. It would have been a dying community. Look at Richmond. A few years ago it was just, what? a farm land without any crops. But now same with Vancouver, vibrant and progressing not to mention Burnaby as well. I don't understand why we should stop progress and development? I do sympathized with some who think that the prices of property has become so expensive to the average people but this shouldn't deter our city to go forward or we all will be left behind. And remember the jobs they have created all this years.

As to foreign investors of property, I think they are being levied and taxed in a different way already but please take note that most of this so called "investors" are immigrants and already Canadian Citizens. In the Philippines for instance, foreigners are not allow to own more then 40% of real estate property except if they are a corporation.Thats why they haven't have much progress all this years as compare to her neighbouring countries. They wanted to protect the local people same as what some of you are saying but its more detrimental when you stop progress and development. Try living there for a few months and you will understand what I mean. Properties are cheap there, you know...

Imagine restraining investment to come in? That is tantamount to killing this great nation. I just cannot fathom what well happen to Canada. Just my opinion.

 

[badbadboy]

Plus one!

Not really sure how municipal governments would be able to engage the Province or the Federal level on this one. I doubt legally any city can not stifle sales to foreign nationals.

Although I find it difficult that any of my young relatives probably won't own a home in this area but further East at best. In a few situations they have moved to the USA for work and home ownership. I would not want some ill thought out law strangling Vancouver or BC.

 

[sybian]

The existing farmland needs to be protected. Cities like Abbotsford and Chilliwack, have paved over some of the most fertile farmland in the world, to build homes for people moving out of Vancouver.
The farmers producing our food then move to the Interior, that has a shorter growing climate, and slightly less water...Driving up prices here for marginal farmland.
Over the last 5 years we have seen off shore investors buying up massive pieces of land, and applying for various development strategies..Or even more disturbing, using illegal farming practices, to produce our food for our citizens. There is a full time team assigned to the CFIA to monitor the problem.
This is the ripple effect from such high prices in Vancouver, felt all the way up here. We look at farming and producing food as a long term thing, a way of life to the end.....Many foreign invested producers have a way of looking short term ,and high profit..Ruining the land for the future.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Here's my line-in-the-sand; restricting a sale to offshore investors ONLY.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with our local economy, or our local housing market, I suggest you take a look around at your living space. Take a really good look at the amenities you require to feel at-home, every bit of space you have, the creature comforts you desire. Then take a look at what it might cost you to have to move at the end of this month and try to duplicate it on your current income. Yes, overseas money has built this city...but is it all for the better?

 

[1nitestan]

Yes, overseas money has built this city...but is it all for the better?

Since the dawn of this country, overseas money has built this city. From the first settlers to the new immigrants. How can you even question that it hasn't been better? Left completely alone, do you think the aboriginal peoples would have built a railroad and developed this town into the city we all love to brag about in terms of livability? Vancouver is growing and people are just looking for something to point a finger at for the growing pains we are experiencing.

As for the original topic: We're talking about buyers with millions...even billions of dollars at their disposal. How much taxation/levies/penalties do you think will be a breaking point for them not to buy in Vancouver? For example, there was talk about increasing the the cost for demolishing old homes to preserve Vancouver "heritage" (don't get me started on that one). I believe the number being kicked around was adding another $50k to the cost of construction. Big fuckin' deal. A typical Shaughnessy mansion is a $8M build over 3 years. You're talking a whopping 0.6% increase in the cost of construction. Rich folks won't even notice. Hell, I don't even notice a 0.6% increase in the cost of a sandwich. Even if you were building a $500k home, it's only 10%

You put your home up for sale at a reasonable market price. Your agent sets up a timeline to receive sealed offers. It's a sellers market and every offer is decent, but the there's one guy who is willing to give you $200k over what you ask and has no subjects and a nice fast closing date. Which one are you gonna choose? Are you gonna let the gov't tell you how much you are legally able to sell your home for? Are you seriously gonna tell people that you said no to an extra $200k? Are you gonna turn down someone's money because of their skin colour?

The term "foreign speculators" is laughable. These people are buying homes so they can eventually retire and live here. They are establishing a foothold in a new and politically stable country just like white folks did back in the 1800's. That's why they send their kids here. As prosperous as the Chinese economy is, it's still a highly corrupt and very communist country. The real speculators are the sellers. The local folks and developers who buy properties and build/reno, and then re-sell. Putting extra costs on foreigners buying property is just a modern day form of the Chinese Head Tax. It's racism, plain and simple. Western society hasn't learned a goddamn thing.

People also don't like absentee owners. Well these absentee owners still pay property taxes. They also don't add to the carbon footprint because they don't have weekly garbage to put out in the alley. They aren't commuting to work on our already crowded infrastructure. Quite a few Canadians own vacation property in other countries. How is that OK and when it's the same scenario?

That being said, Vancouver is sadly going to become like Monaco in about 15 years or so. Where only rich folks live in the city while the rest of us are outside in the burbs. But that's not solely because of foreign ownership. It's because of the same reason as always - Vancouver has no real industry to support it's urban growth and prosperity. The film biz isn't big enough to do it. The tech biz isn't big enough either. It's not a major world banking centre like Hong Kong or London. In terms of port traffic, it pales in comparison to other cities like Seattle or L.A. It's a great place to live but a shitty place to work. Why do you think so many people leave to work in Alberta? Kids graduate from med school/nursing only to get snapped up by US hospitals. There are no real jobs in Vancouver other than to service the local economy or liaise with other international offices.

 

[Cock Throppled]

Politicians never care where dirty money comes from.

 

[1nitestan]

Politicians never care where dirty money comes from.

Exactly...Kennedys, Bronfmans, ........ criminals are the only people who have the means to shape nations. The Greeks may have invented democracy, but they also invented the corruption to circumvent it.

 

[Lo-ki]

"That being said, Vancouver is sadly going to become like Monaco in about 15 years or so. Where only rich folks live in the city while the rest of us are outside in the burbs. But that's not solely because of foreign ownership. It's because of the same reason as always - Vancouver has no real industry to support it's urban growth and prosperity. The film biz isn't big enough to do it. The tech biz isn't big enough either. It's not a major world banking centre like Hong Kong or London. In terms of port traffic, it pales in comparison to other cities like Seattle or L.A. It's a great place to live but a shitty place to work. Why do you think so many people leave to work in Alberta? Kids graduate from med school/nursing only to get snapped up by US hospitals. There are no real jobs in Vancouver other than to service the local economy or liaise with other international offices."

Couldn't have said it better myself..
BTW Vancouver has already been sold.

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Since the dawn of this country, overseas money has built this city. From the first settlers to the new immigrants. How can you even question that it hasn't been better? Left completely alone, do you think the aboriginal peoples would have built a railroad and developed this town into the city we all love to brag about in terms of livability? Vancouver is growing and people are just looking for something to point a finger at for the growing pains we are experiencing.

As for the original topic: We're talking about buyers with millions...even billions of dollars at their disposal. How much taxation/levies/penalties do you think will be a breaking point for them not to buy in Vancouver? For example, there was talk about increasing the the cost for demolishing old homes to preserve Vancouver "heritage" (don't get me started on that one). I believe the number being kicked around was adding another $50k to the cost of construction. Big fuckin' deal. A typical Shaughnessy mansion is a $8M build over 3 years. You're talking a whopping 0.6% increase in the cost of construction. Rich folks won't even notice. Hell, I don't even notice a 0.6% increase in the cost of a sandwich. Even if you were building a $500k home, it's only 10%

You put your home up for sale at a reasonable market price. Your agent sets up a timeline to receive sealed offers. It's a sellers market and every offer is decent, but the there's one guy who is willing to give you $200k over what you ask and has no subjects and a nice fast closing date. Which one are you gonna choose? Are you gonna let the gov't tell you how much you are legally able to sell your home for? Are you seriously gonna tell people that you said no to an extra $200k? Are you gonna turn down someone's money because of their skin colour?

The term "foreign speculators" is laughable. These people are buying homes so they can eventually retire and live here. They are establishing a foothold in a new and politically stable country just like white folks did back in the 1800's. That's why they send their kids here. As prosperous as the Chinese economy is, it's still a highly corrupt and very communist country. The real speculators are the sellers. The local folks and developers who buy properties and build/reno, and then re-sell. Putting extra costs on foreigners buying property is just a modern day form of the Chinese Head Tax. It's racism, plain and simple. Western society hasn't learned a goddamn thing.

People also don't like absentee owners. Well these absentee owners still pay property taxes. They also don't add to the carbon footprint because they don't have weekly garbage to put out in the alley. They aren't commuting to work on our already crowded infrastructure. Quite a few Canadians own vacation property in other countries. How is that OK and when it's the same scenario?

That being said, Vancouver is sadly going to become like Monaco in about 15 years or so. Where only rich folks live in the city while the rest of us are outside in the burbs. But that's not solely because of foreign ownership. It's because of the same reason as always - Vancouver has no real industry to support it's urban growth and prosperity. The film biz isn't big enough to do it. The tech biz isn't big enough either. It's not a major world banking centre like Hong Kong or London. In terms of port traffic, it pales in comparison to other cities like Seattle or L.A. It's a great place to live but a shitty place to work. Why do you think so many people leave to work in Alberta? Kids graduate from med school/nursing only to get snapped up by US hospitals. There are no real jobs in Vancouver other than to service the local economy or liaise with other international offices.

Though you snipped me and thus skewed my intent just a little, I'm wearing my big girl panties, so I am not huffing & puffing! :wink: You've made my point though. That is why I am currently paying the same rent to live on an acre in a 3 bedroom rancher that I would to rent a 2 bedroom apartment on the east side of Main Street.

 

[1nitestan]

Though you snipped me and thus skewed my intent just a little, I'm wearing my big girl panties, so I am not huffing & puffing! :wink: You've made my point though. That is why I am currently paying the same rent to live on an acre in a 3 bedroom rancher that I would to rent a 2 bedroom apartment on the east side of Main Street.

Are you happy with your choice of living arrangements?

 

[Ms Erica Phoenix]

Are you happy with your choice of living arrangements?

Yes. I am. It's quiet at night. I have hawks nesting in the trees in the lot next door, and I have seen pileated woodpeckers on the trees where the tire swing is. I also like having the privacy to be able to stand stark naked in the middle of my backyard in front of God & everyone except the neighbours, because there are none. Oh sure, it's a lot less house than the 7-bedroom 4 bathroom I had in Clayton Heights, for sure. It's also a whole lot more private and comfortable and sprawling than a 900 sq foot 27th floor condo with amazing views and a pool...Downtown living, for me, is great for about a week or so. After that, I want to go home and decompress, and hang out with the critters in the yard.

Remember yards??? Not a patio and a grass plot, but an expanse of space to insulate you from knowing your neighbours better than you wanted to?

I like my house; I LOVE my yard. When the current owner redevelops, it will all be lost, so I am going to enjoy it as thoroughly as I can while I can. When it's time to move again, I will be ready to reevaluate how I choose to live, again! ;D

 

[twoblues]

The petition demands B.C. Premier Christy Clark, Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson and other city councillors and mayors introduce legislation to restrict foreign buyers by the end of the year

How are they going to restrict foreign buyers? Do you think those foreign buyers will not be able to find a local citizen to act as their buyer? Seems like a pretty simple workaround to me.

I'm not against foreign buyers (as a future buyer of a house in a foreign country, I am a little biased), but I am for a tax on unoccupied houses (though, the logistics of that would be complex to sort out).

 

[1nitestan]

How are they going to restrict foreign buyers? Do you think those foreign buyers will not be able to find a local citizen to act as their buyer? Seems like a pretty simple workaround to me.

I'm not against foreign buyers (as a future buyer of a house in a foreign country, I am a little biased), but I am for a tax on unoccupied houses (though, the logistics of that would be complex to sort out).

It's a no-win situation: How much tax do you levy on this? How long does a house need to be empty for a tax to be applied? What if some local guy only lives in Vancouver 6 months and drives his motorhome to Florida for the other 6 months? How many people does the city need to hire to enforce/investigate empty homes and how much tax money is this gonna cost to collect the new taxes? Lots of these properties are apartments, so how does the City expect to gain access to private property and snoop around?

Typical taxes on a $1M home is around $3500-4000. Even if the City doubles the taxes for foreign ownership/empty houses, it's only 0.8% of the property's value. Again, no one's gonna complain or be deterred from owning a house and leaving it empty. I see a business opportunity here. Home care/house sitting services for foreigners. They pay you to mow the lawn and keep the home looking like "it's being lived in" instead of paying taxes. If I charge $1500/yr per home and I can cover say 20 houses, that's not too shabby for part time income ($30k). The owners save money and I make some cash. win - win

 

[nickcan]

Typical taxes on a $1M home is around $3500-4000. Even if the City doubles the taxes for foreign ownership/empty houses, it's only 0.8% of the property's value. Again, no one's gonna complain or be deterred from owning a house and leaving it empty.

A lot of rich folks are cheap, a few cents off on gas and new large MB/BMW/Audi drivers are also gassing up and waiting, I couldn't be bothered.
If government applies large taxes on foreign ownership then they don't need to raise provincial sales taxes for transit or cabon tax bull-shit.

 

[1nitestan]

A lot of rich folks are cheap, a few cents off on gas and new large MB/BMW/Audi drivers are also gassing up and waiting, I couldn't be bothered.
If government applies large taxes on foreign ownership then they don't need to raise provincial sales taxes for transit or cabon tax bull-shit.

Foreign owned residential property won't offset the income generated by carbon/transit taxes. Doesn't even come close.

 

[huggzy]

Sooo...all you people that own Vancouver property who in 20 years time think they are going to "cash in"...

...where are you going to live? Because you can't cash in if you plan on living in the same place (even 6 months of the year - if you plan on doing the US half-time then you need two residences and one will be here).

You have 3 million residents in the Greater Vancouver area with the same plan. Do you think you all are going to be able to sell your home and move to Kelowna, Vernon, or Kamloops on the cheap? All of you have to live somewhere...but you can't all move there. Kelowna and Kamloops isn't even cheap anymore - but in 20 years time when everyone who is planning to sell out Vancouver to foreign interests...do you think that these places are still going to be cheap when all of you look to move to the same place?

Alberta isn't cheap anymore. Are you all moving to Saskatchewan? Manitoba? Where are you going...and what makes you think that it will still be relatively cheap there when millions of you are going to move to the same place?

So are you going to move to Cranbrook? Hope? Do you think all 3 million of you are going to be able to move to Vancouver Island?

Or do you really think you are going to live out the rest of your lives in remote tropical places like Costa Rica? For the rest of your lives?!?!

And what happens to your children? If you're "selling out" your home to foreigners then you obviously can't pass along that Vancouver home to your children. Are they going to follow you to Cranbrook or Hope or Nanaimo and try to find work there (seriously?!?!?) - or are you just going to desert them in Vancouver where they will slave away without ever having a hope of owning a home?


Or are you people so myopic that you haven't given it even a grain of thought?

 

[huggzy]

I think this is a weak argument. We all have to remember that Vancouver would have not been what it is today without all this investors. Look at Yaletown, for instance. 20 years ago, its nothing. Without this HK developer coming in to develop that area, maybe we would not be enjoying it right now. It would have been a dying community. Look at Richmond. A few years ago it was just, what? a farm land without any crops. But now same with Vancouver, vibrant and progressing not to mention Burnaby as well. I don't understand why we should stop progress and development? I do sympathized with some who think that the prices of property has become so expensive to the average people but this shouldn't deter our city to go forward or we all will be left behind. And remember the jobs they have created all this years.

As to foreign investors of property, I think they are being levied and taxed in a different way already but please take note that most of this so called "investors" are immigrants and already Canadian Citizens. In the Philippines for instance, foreigners are not allow to own more then 40% of real estate property except if they are a corporation.Thats why they haven't have much progress all this years as compare to her neighbouring countries. They wanted to protect the local people same as what some of you are saying but its more detrimental when you stop progress and development. Try living there for a few months and you will understand what I mean. Properties are cheap there, you know...

Imagine restraining investment to come in? That is tantamount to killing this great nation. I just cannot fathom what well happen to Canada. Just my opinion.

Because this place sucks compared to 20 - 30 years ago. That's why. The people, the value systems, the peace and tranquility, the friendliness, THE ABILITY TO LIVE AFFORDABLY...and plan a future for your children.

Seriously...who gives a shit about condos in Yaletown? If you equate a concrete jungle to progress and think of that as a "home" environment - then I don't know what to even say to you except that I don't think you've actually experienced what its like to have a real home.

And who gives a crap about the jobs this city creates if you can't buy a home with that income? Again...those "vibrant" communities are filled with foreigners. These "vibrant" communities are shutting out local citizens. You say don't "deter our city to go forward"...except the people who are cashing in have no plans on being here in the future. Because you can't cash in unless you plan on living somewhere else.

This "great nation" is being taken over by foreign interests. How does that benefit its residents? None of the residents who plan on "cashing in" will even be living here when they sell off.

And all those residents who cannot buy real estate will be renting from foreign landlords. And so will their children and their children's children.