The Porn Dude

Zimmerman Trial - Murder Off the Table WTF!!!!!

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,132
44
48
Montréal
Stand your ground makes sense. Not protecting yourself makes no sense. Being a "victim" of someone else's aggression is not taking the moral highroad; it's a form of self-defeating suicide. Attaching all this to some corporate conspiracy is, of course, within the realm of moviemaker Michael Moore and acolytes like M. Bijou.

It IS a perverse law: 'self defense"/murders

A real good way to protect one's self is usually to abstain from following people around while packing a gun.
Seems like common sense to me, don't you agree?

But maybe that's just me... :rolleyes:


If you must know..
I found the Michael Moore tweet as one of many from all kinds of other people on this post: http://bit.ly/18ec8Rl
I can quote some more if you want. But that was the one that was relevant to what I was saying...


As far as the "corporate conspiracy", I would love to take credit for making the connection however I was not the one unfortunately. You'll notice my post has links so you're in luck since you were just asking for that, weren't you? Well, there you go. Now feel free to look into it yourself before insulting or dismissing it. It sort of exposes your "cubbyholes" when you don't even pretend to look into things because you've already made up your mind and don't want to hear anything else.
 

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.
Dec 26, 2008
908
13
0
Stand your ground makes sense. Not protecting yourself makes no sense. Being a "victim" of someone else's aggression is not taking the moral highroad; it's a form of self-defeating suicide. Attaching all this to some corporate conspiracy is, of course, within the realm of moviemaker Michael Moore and acolytes like M. Bijou.
So why doesn't the "stand your ground" law apply to Trayvon? He was stalked by an armed person who was in no way shape or form a police officer. Zimmerman himself said that Trayvon reached for his gun. Don't you think that maybe ...just maybe Trayvon feared for his life after seeing that the man confronting him was armed?
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,132
44
48
Montréal
Stand your ground makes sense. Not protecting yourself makes no sense. Being a "victim" of someone else's aggression is not taking the moral highroad; it's a form of self-defeating suicide.

Self defense...suuuure.


George Zimmerman's trial in the shooting of Trayvon Martin is coming to a close. For what it's worth, I think he'll probably get acquitted, since 1) the lack of any eyewitnesses leaves room for doubt, and 2) my impression is that in Florida it's perfectly legal to pursue somebody, confront them, and then when the confrontation turns physical and you begin to lose the fight, shoot them in the chest. You know—self defense.



Sounds kinda familiar..lol



In any case, conservative media are feasting on the Zimmerman trial (as are some other media). Their basic storyline goes like this: Trayvon Martin was a thug. George Zimmerman's gated community was beset by roving gangs of vicious black teen criminals. Zimmerman was in the right. And most critically, this whole thing is being drummed up by racial provocateurs, most especially Barack Obama and Eric Holder, to continue their ongoing war on white people, who are the real victims of racism in America today.

Let's take, for instance, this little story. After Martin's killing, when protests were being organized, the Justice Department sent a team of mediators from its Community Relations Service down to Sanford, Florida to try to keep things peaceful. Here's how the Miami Herald described the work of one of the mediators: "[Thomas] Battles, southeastern regional director of the CRS, acted as a trusted third party, gathering opposing factions to address the simmering tension by developing reconciliation strategies. He worked with city and civic leaders to allow the protests, but in peaceful manner. He also worked with the city to create its nine-point plan that aims to improve race and police relations, and tapped into the city’s faith community to help guide the healing."

Sounds like a good thing, right? The (white) mayor of Sanford is effusive in his praise for Battles. But conservative media have a different take on the CRS's efforts to diffuse the anger over the case, which came to their attention when the conservative group Judicial Watch obtained documents detailing the CRS's expenses of a couple of thousand dollars for their time in Sanford. In their reading, it's a Justice Department conspiracy, in which Obama and Holder are working with Al Sharpton to organize anti-Zimmerman protests. "Docs: Justice Department Facilitated Anti-Zimmerman Protests," said the Daily Caller. Fox News, which has been treating its viewers to the commentary of thoughtful race analysts like Mark Fuhrman and Pat Buchanan about this case, was a tad more circumspect, posing it as a question: "Did Justice Department Support Anti-Zimmerman Protests After Martin Shooting?" Breitbart.com ssaw the entire prosecution as a result of the mediators: "Judicial Watch: Zimmerman Prosecution Might Have Been Forced By DOJ-Organized Pressure." Powerline was even more dramatic: "Did the Department of Justice Stir Up Trayvon Martin Riots?" Interesting question, particularly since there were no riots. "The United States government has been converted by Obama and Holder into a community organizing agitator bunch!" thundered Rush Limbaugh in response to the report about the CRS. "This regime saw an opportunity to turn something into a profoundly racial case for the express purpose of ripping the country apart."

Source
 

juniper

New member
Apr 11, 2006
407
2
0
So why doesn't the "stand your ground" law apply to Trayvon? He was stalked by an armed person who was in no way shape or form a police officer. Zimmerman himself said that Trayvon reached for his gun. Don't you think that maybe ...just maybe Trayvon feared for his life after seeing that the man confronting him was armed?
George Zimmerman was in a position of guarding the complex which Trayvon Martin was entering. Trayvon Martin was a mysterious man who didn't actually reside in this gated community. Of course you could be right, "Unpossible". But the prosecution had all the time and funding required to make its case. The jury found George Zimmerman "not guilty". As one previous commentator wrote, that does not mean he "wasn't guilty" but it does mean that there was insufficient evidence or reasonable doubt. The problem with being found "not guilty", for one thing, means that a stigma will always be attached to your person even if you did not commit the crime in question. In George Zimmerman's case, right now he is actually the target of innumerable and serious threats. You can see that the whole trial took place in a frenzied atmosphere. There are experts, Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law amongst them, who say that the conduct of the prosecuters during the lead-up to the trial and regarding the trial itself merited substantial complaints and investigation by the Florida Bar. Should this be the case, it will take several years before we (the public) will be aware of their (the Bar) findings.
 

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.
Dec 26, 2008
908
13
0
George Zimmerman was in a position of guarding the complex which Trayvon Martin was entering.
He was a neighborhood watch volunteer. He had no more authority than a robitussin addicted hobo.

Trayvon Martin was a mysterious man who didn't actually reside in this gated community
He did live there actually.
 

Tugela

New member
Oct 26, 2010
1,913
1
0
The reason there was never going to be a conviction in this case was the evidence.

There was nothing to suggest that Zimmerman attacked Martin, but plenty of evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

So, self defence was clear, and therefore no conviction.

You might argue that carrying a gun comes with liability, but that is not what the law says in Florida. Personally I think no one should have a gun, but in the US they have a different opinion.

If you have a gun, and the law allows you to have it and use it under defined circumstances, and if you are in the process of being beaten up, you are going to use that gun. Who wouldn't?

If they are being honest with themselves, everyone here who is critical of Zimmerman would probably have shot Martin as well if they were in the same situation.

IMO what happened in this case is that Zimmerman confronted Martin verbally, then Martin attacked him (not knowing there was a gun). In the ensuing fight (which appears to have been pretty much one sided) Zimmerman used the gun to protect himself from further injury. He was on the ground with Martin on him, being pummeled, the outcome at that point was predictable. Like I said, every single person on this board would have not have let the pummeling continue if all they had to do was manage to draw the gun and shoot. It confuses me why people think that something else would happen.

The moral of the story (which most people seem to have missed entirely) is that when you exchange words with someone, you don't have the right to physically attack them, if you do there may be serious consequences, especially if the person you are attacking is armed, because they are almost certainly going to use that weapon to defend themselves if they can. Which is why no one should be allowed to own a gun...it is too easy for this sort of situation to happen.
 

gpchillin

New member
Apr 20, 2008
129
0
0
Grande Prairie
I think the 2 big factors in the jury finding him not guilty was the fact that Zimmerman was doing neighbourhood watch and that Zimmerman was the one who called 911. If he was not doing neighbourhood watch and he had not called 911 to report a suspicious person then shot Martin he would most definitely be going to jail. Once there was a fight you could not have found Zimmerman guilty since Martin was shot during the struggle.

Should things have been handled differently sure Zimmerman could have done something different, Martin tho being a teenage boy did what all teenage boys do no matter what color their skin is, He would have gotten mouthy and aggressive because that's what teenage boys do in situations and a fight broke out and he ended up being shot.

Do I agree with what happened no I don't but I also didn't think it was murder or manslaughter either. We all know what teenage boys are like, I was once one years ago and I also have to deal with them at work and I do think he would have got aggressive and started swinging should Zimmerman have shot him no but honestly when your getting hit you want to protect yourself and these days so many people carry knives you don't know if your going to be stabbed. I think if it was a cop getting hit 8/10 of them would have shot too.
 

Mod-2

Banned
May 22, 2011
250
0
0
In your face
This is a passionate topic, we will allow this to go on as long as everyone keeps the rhetoric and fighting at a minimum. I am not going to be watching this discussion deteriorate into the usual suspects running their mouths. If it gets out of hand I will remove the thread and ban anyone that crosses the line. I won't be warning anyone again in this thread.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
From what I understand the "stand your ground" law had no bearing on this case.

Had the defense used it, it's my understanding that it would have gone before a judge, rather than a jury.

That aside, it's just a sad situation that a 17 year old boy is dead and the shooter walked away free, but if one follows the law, I can see how the verdict is right based on a lack of evidence as to who started the confrontation, even though morally, and on many other levels, it's easy to see something is wrong when an unarmed 17 year old gets gunned down while coming home from the store.

But unfortunately for Zimmerman, there's a reasonable chance that eventually someone will take the law into their own hands and dispense what they feel is justice. I'm not saying that's a good thing, it just is what it is.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
I think the 2 big factors in the jury finding him not guilty was the fact that Zimmerman was doing neighbourhood watch and that Zimmerman was the one who called 911. If he was not doing neighbourhood watch and he had not called 911 to report a suspicious person then shot Martin he would most definitely be going to jail. Once there was a fight you could not have found Zimmerman guilty since Martin was shot during the struggle.

Should things have been handled differently sure Zimmerman could have done something different, Martin tho being a teenage boy did what all teenage boys do no matter what color their skin is, He would have gotten mouthy and aggressive because that's what teenage boys do in situations and a fight broke out and he ended up being shot.

Do I agree with what happened no I don't but I also didn't think it was murder or manslaughter either. We all know what teenage boys are like, I was once one years ago and I also have to deal with them at work and I do think he would have got aggressive and started swinging should Zimmerman have shot him no but honestly when your getting hit you want to protect yourself and these days so many people carry knives you don't know if your going to be stabbed. I think if it was a cop getting hit 8/10 of them would have shot too.
Yes, but if it were a cop getting hit he would have had more legal rights to challenge him if he felt that Trayvon was acting in a suspicious manner. But nobody, not even a cop, has the right to try and restrain someone who is doing nothing wrong, and if that does occur, what about the (in this case victim's) right to self defense? If you try and refrain me for no reason, don't I have the right to protect myself regardless of who's trying to do it?
 

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.
Dec 26, 2008
908
13
0
A fucked situation for sure they always showed pics of a much younger Martin, in reality he was a very big tough kid not chicken to take Zimmerman on.
It's worth noting that Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by 20lbs and had been training mma for several months.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
It's worth noting that Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by 20lbs and had been training mma for several months.
I have a hard time thinking that this has any bearing on anything. I'm fairly short and often leverage is much more important than weight, especially if we're only talking about 20 lbs.

What's more important than both is the actually number of real fights you've been in.

That has far more bearing than weight, height, and mma training ever will, because even with mma training there are rules and it takes time to perfect many of the techniques.

In most street fights you just do what you can to win. Hell I remember when I was 20 and in extremely good shape and got into an argument with someone who did time and was about 20 years older than me. Before I knew it he had his teeth into my cheek and I was helpless unless I was prepared to loose part of my face..lol

So there are a lot of factors that go into a fight. I suspect Trayvon would have an advantage in that situation. I'm also sure it was Travyon who was on top and Zimmerman who was crying out for help. What I'm not sure about is who started the altercation in the first place and why Zimmerman felt he needed to get as involved as he did.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
First off I don't agree with the verdict. He should have been found guilty for something like excessive force etc. that being said.
What I don't agree with is the claim so many people are making about how the young Mr. Martin was 'doing nothing wrong'. Absolutely false! He was trespassing in a gated community that had clear signs. Also since he lived near by I'm assuming he new all to well that he was trespassing. Oh and did you forget it was late at night?
You can pull the racist card all you want but the fact still remains he was breaking the law by trespassing and then has the teenage maturity to start mouthing off! He didn't deserve to die but he damn sure deserved to be confronted.
No one was innocent in this situation and many lives have been damaged forever.
I just pray that all involved will someday heal and be able to live free from hatred or it may kill them as well. Just in a different way.
He wasn't trespassing. My understanding his his dad's girlfriend lived in that gated community and they were staying with her. Are you saying people in a gated community can't have guests? You're the first person I'm aware of to accuse Trayvon Martin of trespassing.
 

Smilf

Banned
Jun 29, 2011
390
0
0
Calgary
First off I don't agree with the verdict. He should have been found guilty for something like excessive force etc. that being said.
What I don't agree with is the claim so many people are making about how the young Mr. Martin was 'doing nothing wrong'. Absolutely false! He was trespassing in a gated community that had clear signs. Also since he lived near by I'm assuming he new all to well that he was trespassing. Oh and did you forget it was late at night?
You can pull the racist card all you want but the fact still remains he was breaking the law by trespassing and then has the teenage maturity to start mouthing off! He didn't deserve to die but he damn sure deserved to be confronted.
No one was innocent in this situation and many lives have been damaged forever.
I just pray that all involved will someday heal and be able to live free from hatred or it may kill them as well. Just in a different way.
He wasn't trespassing, he was temporarily staying in that gated community
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

"On the day Martin was fatally shot, he and his father were visiting his father's fiancée and her son at her townhome in The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, a multi-ethnic gated community, where the shooting occurred.[43][44] Martin had visited his father's fiancée at Twin Lakes several times"
 

SlimSugar

New member
Feb 2, 2008
84
0
0
Zimmermon essentially has a life sentence of now having to constantly look over his shoulder

He will have a life time trouble with:

a). Going to public restraunts
b). Going to movies
c). Running for public office
d). Go to the park or walks
e). Employment trust
f). Establishing a trusted relationship
 

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.
Dec 26, 2008
908
13
0
What I don't agree with is the claim so many people are making about how the young Mr. Martin was 'doing nothing wrong'. Absolutely false! He was trespassing in a gated community that had clear signs. Also since he lived near by I'm assuming he new all to well that he was trespassing.
Absolutely false! He lived there at the time.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
Zimmermon essentially has a life sentence of now having to constantly look over his shoulder

He will have a life time trouble with:

a). Going to public restraunts
b). Going to movies
c). Running for public office
d). Go to the park or walks
e). Employment trust
f). Establishing a trusted relationship

Ya, I wouldn't want to be the company that owned his life insurance policy, especially if his premiums were locked in.
 

Unpossible

A.C.A.B.
Dec 26, 2008
908
13
0
I have a hard time thinking that this has any bearing on anything.
I was responding to hatrick's "big scary black guy" comment.

I'm fairly short and often leverage is much more important than weight, especially if we're only talking about 20 lbs.
Zimmerman was 4 inches shorter than Trayvon.
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts