Is there anything wrong with lying to one’s wife about seeing escorts?
- Thread starter tantalizeme
- Start date
Personally, I think that if you find yourself having to ask the question at all... you probably know the answer. Begging for majority consensus is just a method of relieving personal guilt. Someone who's really OK with cheating on their wife doesn't bother to ask... they just do it. Lying outright or lying through omission really seems minor, in the scheme of things.
Seeing escorts is cheating on your wife/girlfriend. Don't try to justify it.
Because you thought you were being honest to her about seeing escorts and it has nothing to do with personal feelings, that is beside the point. See if that honesty will get you laid that night with your wife/girlfriend. Unless she suggested that you see an escort for your birthday present or that she wants a threesome with you and an escort -good on you.
But if you are concerned about the morality on this topic and "is there anything wrong with lying...", go ask your mother.
Because you thought you were being honest to her about seeing escorts and it has nothing to do with personal feelings, that is beside the point. See if that honesty will get you laid that night with your wife/girlfriend. Unless she suggested that you see an escort for your birthday present or that she wants a threesome with you and an escort -good on you.
But if you are concerned about the morality on this topic and "is there anything wrong with lying...", go ask your mother.
No wonder our hobby has such a sordid reputation—when even pooners are judgmental of their married brothers who lie about pooning to their SO.
It's a conservative guess that at least half of all pooners have a wife or GF, and most poon without their partner's consent.
So we can defend our hobby as legitimate only if we insist that commercial sex is perfectly okay morally, except in rare circumstances when violence, minors or trafficked SPs are involved.
We must argue that the people who should be ashamed are those who extract a promise of monogamy from others at a young, foolish life stage—not the men (or women) who enjoy their sexuality more fully through responsible non-monogamy.
If you really think that, by pooning, you're committing a moral wrong and hiding an awful secret from your wife, you'll feel guilty, and this guilt may poison both pooning and the relationship for you.
If, on the other hand, you feel morally good about seeing SPs—and regard your wife's objections as simply echos of a silly, outmoded cultural taboo—you'll more easily and happily juggle both the relationship and pooning.
I certainly don't mind if someone practices complete truthfulness in their own marriage.
But I don't think they have a right to inflict those lofty standards on others who often face a difficult choice between either losing a decent sex life or losing their family—and who navigate this dilemma by seeing SPs in secret.
The social union of marriage and monogamy requires compromise so it is not recommended for hedonists.
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I'm judgemental of anyone who lies to someone they have sworn loyalty to, but that is just me. I don't see how that makes them a good person.
They rationalize their actions, but the real reason the lie about them is because they know they are doing wrong.
What you need to understand (and apparently don't) is that when you enter into marriage, you enter into a partnership, and sneaking on the side is not part of the partnership. It is cheating your partner. If you entered into a business partnership with someone, say to run a restuarant or something like that, and you found out that they were cheating you and siphoning off revenue, and lying about it to cover up, I'm pretty sure that you (and everyone else on this board) would be livid. You would not be in a forgiving mood.
Just because you know your partner would not approve of what you are doing, doesnt make it right to lie about it and do it anyway. It is an immoral act.
If your ok with cheating on your wife, than why the hell do you need approval from random people online?
There there, your a good man. Any guilt you feel, its just because of society. Feel better now? Fuck, if anyone truly feels guilt for what they do, than stop. Don't try to justify cheating as her fault, or your doing her a favor. If your cheating, your cheating, and if you are ok with that, than continue. Own up to it, do what you do and don't give a fuck...
There there, your a good man. Any guilt you feel, its just because of society. Feel better now? Fuck, if anyone truly feels guilt for what they do, than stop. Don't try to justify cheating as her fault, or your doing her a favor. If your cheating, your cheating, and if you are ok with that, than continue. Own up to it, do what you do and don't give a fuck...
Couldn't have said it better. The title of the posting already denotes guilt, therefore it's wrong. You don't need strangers on the internet to agree with your justifications.
Being in a marriage is not all about sex; if sex is the main priority, one shouldn't be married then and just stick to seeing escorts. You can't have your cake and eat it too, but it seems like you're doing both.
It's not the distinction between seeing an escort or having an affair outside your marriage that is the debate. It's that you're plainly seeing another woman, especially if your partner does not know. If one's partner accepts the other's duplicitous life, good on them. But "honesty", the integral term is only good in a marriage if it's good for the union, and not just for the one half.
I'm single so I see these kind ladies once in a while. When I'm in a committed relationship with a woman, I'd be happy to eat just one flavour of cake until I'm an old man (excuse the cheesy analogy).
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It's not often the OP of a thread forgets what the original question was. The topic isn't about the morality of seeing escorts, it is about the morality of lying to an SO about it.
You can't really justify a lie, you can only be OK about doing it in spite of the fact that you are lying to the one person that you entered into a partnership based on not lying to them on important issues at least. I don't think there is a way to spin it in your favour, do or do not, it's up to you.
You can't really justify a lie, you can only be OK about doing it in spite of the fact that you are lying to the one person that you entered into a partnership based on not lying to them on important issues at least. I don't think there is a way to spin it in your favour, do or do not, it's up to you.
Marriage vows involve the "love, honor and obey" thing. They don't mention rape or physical assault. Neither do marriage contracts.
People may have been doing those things in the past as "accepted custom", but they rationalized doing that in much the same way some are trying to rationalize cheating today.
It does not make any of those things moral or ok.
L
Larry Storch
Yes there is.
Seeing SP's and lying in general don't exactly help build a strong lasting relationship.
As buttdance said: "Being in a marriage is not all about sex; if sex is the main priority, one shouldn't be married then and just stick to seeing escorts."
L
Larry Storch
L-I-J:
Sex is definitely relevant in marriage. I guess the point I was trying to make is that there is more to being married than just sex. I see marriage as a mutually trusting relationship. Not necessarily regulated by 'codes', but by having enough respect for the SO to be honest with them. If you are not happy in the relationship, then come clean about it. There may be ways to improve or change the situation, if not then it may be best to end the marriage rather than continue in a way that could eventually be harmful to the SO. Being married and seeing SP's and then lying about it is selfish in my opinion.
Sex is definitely relevant in marriage. I guess the point I was trying to make is that there is more to being married than just sex. I see marriage as a mutually trusting relationship. Not necessarily regulated by 'codes', but by having enough respect for the SO to be honest with them. If you are not happy in the relationship, then come clean about it. There may be ways to improve or change the situation, if not then it may be best to end the marriage rather than continue in a way that could eventually be harmful to the SO. Being married and seeing SP's and then lying about it is selfish in my opinion.
Paging Pillowtalk and Playful Alex!ound:
The truth is, for quite a large percentage of men, only seeing escorts makes marriage bearable.
Nailed it with one sentence.
Not quite sure how I got drawn into this one but, super cool!
I am married. I cheat on my wife. I don't feel guilty. And no, I could care less what anyone online thinks. It's my decision.
They are different things physically, but from a moral perspective they are the same thing: Both involve lieing to and cheating someone who trusts you.
You can rationalize it as being different all you want, but the bottom line stays that.
Nice to see such lively debate
That's precisely the kind of attitude I love to see among married brothers. But it's not totally clear from your comment why you don't feel guilty.
Is it because you think pooning without your wife's knowledge is morally okay? Or because you don't care about moral right or wrong in the first place?
Sure hope it's the first—because I believe in taking our responsibilities seriously. And I also believe that no morally enlightened person would blame married men for seeking erotic intensity with SPs.
Most men fall into the marriage trap. The courtship and honeymoon periods are filled with such bliss and passion that it's almost unimaginable that this won't last. But it rarely, if ever, does.
I've myself experienced this with long-term GFs: they become lazy in bed; they make less and less effort to dress seductively; and enthusiasm for Greek or even BJs becomes rarer and rarer. And a woman's preoccupation with kids, weight gain or health issues would, of course, further diminish passion.
But even if a woman's sensuality didn't change, a man just isn't wired to repeat sex endlessly with the same person, without massive loss of enjoyment.
So I feel for fellow pooners who're married with kids. I'm convinced their dishonesty about pooning, while perhaps not ideal, isn't morally wrong, from the perspective of promoting human happiness in the world.
A woman in a long-term relationship who's so narrow-minded that she gives her man a hard time over seeing escorts simply doesn't deserve to be told the truth.
Congratulations, brother! Great you don't feel guilty about pooning.
That's precisely the kind of attitude I love to see among married brothers. But it's not totally clear from your comment why you don't feel guilty.
Is it because you think pooning without your wife's knowledge is morally okay? Or because you don't care about moral right or wrong in the first place?
Sure hope it's the first—because I believe in taking our responsibilities seriously. And I also believe that no morally enlightened person would blame married men for seeking erotic intensity with SPs.
Most men fall into the marriage trap. The courtship and honeymoon periods are filled with such bliss and passion that it's almost unimaginable that this won't last. But it rarely, if ever, does.
I've myself experienced this with long-term GFs: they become lazy in bed; they make less and less effort to dress seductively; and enthusiasm for Greek or even BJs becomes rarer and rarer. And a woman's preoccupation with kids, weight gain or health issues would, of course, further diminish passion.
But even if a woman's sensuality didn't change, a man just isn't wired to repeat sex endlessly with the same person, without massive loss of enjoyment.
So I feel for fellow pooners who're married with kids. I'm convinced their dishonesty about pooning, while perhaps not ideal, isn't morally wrong, from the perspective of promoting human happiness in the world.
A woman in a long-term relationship who's so narrow-minded that she gives her man a hard time over seeing escorts simply doesn't deserve to be told the truth.
Lying vs. Telling the Truth...and do we know how to truly communicate anyway?
We've all been dealing with these issues since childhood. And we have vastly different responses and reactions to the topic, based on these life experiences. How was communication dealt with in our families? If you told the truth about something that your parent(s) didn't approve of, were you chastised and punished for the misdeed, or was your honesty appreciated, over and above what happened?
Communication, for a specific outcome, is actually selfish. Engaging in an open conversation about sexuality, where the two parties are willing to discuss divergent views, and be open to each others' perspectives is too mature for most people to expect.
In other words, just because you want to have 'the talk' with your spouse about opening up your sexual boundaries, doesn't mean that she/he should comply. It's called a discussion. If you really want to have the brave conversation, then you truly want to listen as keenly as you want to speak. But, for most couples, this is so beyond the scope of their understanding and skill of communication, as to be a laughable prospect.
All this talk about morality is nauseatingly preachy. As if anyone else can judge anyone else's behaviour, or reasons therefore, or even define morality ...pathetic. English is such a limited language, we all want to define a word that, in fact, requires such a personal definition. And did you and your spouse even really 'know' each other before you made your agreements? Barely. So what I believe tant is saying is, "now what?" Are you suddenly going to become great communicators, open up the communication heavenly gates with each other? I suspect not.
So, what's left? The notion that, 'what he/she doesn't know, won't hurt them." That is by far, the safest route. Until you can figure out how to improve your communication skills with each other, and that starts with the realization that you have communication challenges, period. That would be a breath-of-fresh-air honesty right there!!!
I beg you...don't just wake up one morning and decide to be honest with your spouse, ffs! Honesty is a complex topic, and I wouldn't ever take it lightly. If true honesty is in your future, I suggest you start working on your communication skills now, which starts with getting to know yourself first. That is a big enough undertaking for starters...
"We all "do deception," often with the intention to protect ourselves and the relationships we depend on. The Dance of Deception unravels the ways (and whys) that women show the false and hide the real—even to our own selves. We see how our relationships are affected by lying and faking, by silence and pretending, and by brave—but misguided—efforts to tell the truth.
Truth-telling is at the heart of what is most central in women's lives. It is at the foundation of authenticity and creativity, intimacy and joy. Yet in the name of "honesty," we can bludgeon each other."
From: http://harrietlerner.com/pages/readersguides/THE_DANCE_OF_DECEPTION_RG.pdf
Don't go around bludgeoning others, in the name of your desire to be 'honest'...
We've all been dealing with these issues since childhood. And we have vastly different responses and reactions to the topic, based on these life experiences. How was communication dealt with in our families? If you told the truth about something that your parent(s) didn't approve of, were you chastised and punished for the misdeed, or was your honesty appreciated, over and above what happened?
Communication, for a specific outcome, is actually selfish. Engaging in an open conversation about sexuality, where the two parties are willing to discuss divergent views, and be open to each others' perspectives is too mature for most people to expect.
In other words, just because you want to have 'the talk' with your spouse about opening up your sexual boundaries, doesn't mean that she/he should comply. It's called a discussion. If you really want to have the brave conversation, then you truly want to listen as keenly as you want to speak. But, for most couples, this is so beyond the scope of their understanding and skill of communication, as to be a laughable prospect.
All this talk about morality is nauseatingly preachy. As if anyone else can judge anyone else's behaviour, or reasons therefore, or even define morality ...pathetic. English is such a limited language, we all want to define a word that, in fact, requires such a personal definition. And did you and your spouse even really 'know' each other before you made your agreements? Barely. So what I believe tant is saying is, "now what?" Are you suddenly going to become great communicators, open up the communication heavenly gates with each other? I suspect not.
So, what's left? The notion that, 'what he/she doesn't know, won't hurt them." That is by far, the safest route. Until you can figure out how to improve your communication skills with each other, and that starts with the realization that you have communication challenges, period. That would be a breath-of-fresh-air honesty right there!!!
I beg you...don't just wake up one morning and decide to be honest with your spouse, ffs! Honesty is a complex topic, and I wouldn't ever take it lightly. If true honesty is in your future, I suggest you start working on your communication skills now, which starts with getting to know yourself first. That is a big enough undertaking for starters...
"We all "do deception," often with the intention to protect ourselves and the relationships we depend on. The Dance of Deception unravels the ways (and whys) that women show the false and hide the real—even to our own selves. We see how our relationships are affected by lying and faking, by silence and pretending, and by brave—but misguided—efforts to tell the truth.
Truth-telling is at the heart of what is most central in women's lives. It is at the foundation of authenticity and creativity, intimacy and joy. Yet in the name of "honesty," we can bludgeon each other."
From: http://harrietlerner.com/pages/readersguides/THE_DANCE_OF_DECEPTION_RG.pdf
Don't go around bludgeoning others, in the name of your desire to be 'honest'...
In the end, I think people will side with the justifications and agreements that preach to their own choir.
Guilt and lying aside, do whatever you feel is right; continue doing what makes you happy and stop doing what makes you unhappy.
But remember to consider that one's actions also affect the feelings and lives of others.
Guilt and lying aside, do whatever you feel is right; continue doing what makes you happy and stop doing what makes you unhappy.
But remember to consider that one's actions also affect the feelings and lives of others.
