The Porn Dude

State of the Union

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
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victoria
I'm much more in favour of a flat tax on all income with something like a guaranteed national income.

So, you pay 25% on everything you earn. That is higher than what I pay now with good tax planning and estate management. A flat tax should include dividend income, interest income, corporate income and your wages. No Deductions, none at all.

That is going to be a substantial pool of money and there would be no excuse for Canada having debt after 10 years. Once the debt is paid off, drop the flat tax to 20%.

The people that earn less than $30,000 a year get made up with a monthly check based on the previous year's income so that they do earn $30,000.

If you have children, they are yours. No child tax credit. If the child is an adult, they get the guaranteed national income like anyone else.

A really simple tax form if you are self employed. How much did you earn over $30,000? Send us 25% of that amount. Same thing if you are employed, except that your employer is sending it on your behalf.

Really simple to administer Veteran's, Disability, OAP - did you earn $30,000? If you did, send us 25%, if you didn't we send you a monthly check to make you earn $30,000.

Canada Pension is unchanged because it's an earned pension and is included in the $30,000.

With a flat tax, no deductions at all and a guaranteed national income - cheating becomes very difficult. There are no corporate tax deferrals, there are no "creative" deductions.

The difficulty will be convincing the "entitled" that the $30,000 per adult is it, all that they are going to get.
i would have to think about this. My first impression is that I would just get the easiest or most fun crappy job I could find, and wait for the check instead of trying harder to make 29,000 bucks a year.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
I'm much more in favour of a flat tax on all income with something like a guaranteed national income.

So, you pay 25% on everything you earn. That is higher than what I pay now with good tax planning and estate management. A flat tax should include dividend income, interest income, corporate income and your wages. No Deductions, none at all.

That is going to be a substantial pool of money and there would be no excuse for Canada having debt after 10 years. Once the debt is paid off, drop the flat tax to 20%.

The people that earn less than $30,000 a year get made up with a monthly check based on the previous year's income so that they do earn $30,000.

If you have children, they are yours. No child tax credit. If the child is an adult, they get the guaranteed national income like anyone else.

A really simple tax form if you are self employed. How much did you earn over $30,000? Send us 25% of that amount. Same thing if you are employed, except that your employer is sending it on your behalf.

Really simple to administer Veteran's, Disability, OAP - did you earn $30,000? If you did, send us 25%, if you didn't we send you a monthly check to make you earn $30,000.

Canada Pension is unchanged because it's an earned pension and is included in the $30,000.

With a flat tax, no deductions at all and a guaranteed national income - cheating becomes very difficult. There are no corporate tax deferrals, there are no "creative" deductions.

The difficulty will be convincing the "entitled" that the $30,000 per adult is it, all that they are going to get.
Except for the elderly or persons with physical or mental disabilities why would we ever top up someone's income? In Canada you have the freedom to do whatever you want. If you work hard starting a business or getting an education you have the potential to be very successful. If you chose to work at minimum wage jobs you will probably not get very far in life. I certainly do not want my tax dollars unjustly enriching others based on their life decisions.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,089
0
36
Situation 1.

Husband works full time at the gas station, makes $24000 a year.
Wife works part time at tim hortons. 8 hours a week, makes $4000 a year.
Do both get topped up to 30000? Or just the husband? What if they are common law? What if they are arent married, and just living together but not common law.

Why wouldn't the husband work less hours? Why would anyone want to work in a shitty job, if you get 30000 anyways?
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
You can't do flat tax and still have deductions and deferrals.

Right now, I'm sitting on a whole bunch of unrealized profit on Gold. I don't have to declare the capital gain until I sell the Gold. The same thing is true with some of my other investments. One of the things that needs to happen is that people declare the capital gain (or loss) each tax year. Especially since a lot of this idea is about paying off the federal debt.

Corporations owe billions in deferred taxes. I don't believe we would have a federal debt if all of the deferrals were paid.
Of course you can do flat tax and still have deductions and deferrals. There is this tiny little island that goes by the name of Hong Kong, perhaps you have heard of it.;) Mind you, there is virtually no social safety net there other than a stingy stipend for seniors.

You cannot tax people on unrealized gains. Where would the money come from?

Deferred tax is a big misnomer. It is created by the difference in the accounting and tax treatment of certain items. It does not mean "corporations owe billions in deferred taxes". The question you should be asking is why are the accounting and tax treatment different on certain items?

My old accounting professor always says lawyers should not be writing tax laws because they get an idea and they wet themselves without some critical thinking.:nod:
 

DavidMR

New member
Mar 27, 2009
872
0
0
That's what happens after attending so many Red Scare meetings. :pound:

Indoctrination can do amazing things, persuading people to buy into the most unlikely propositions. It can even persuade them to share these ideas with their friends, family, neighbours and co-workers. At least here the purveyors of improbable notions have the anonymity of a Perb handle.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
When the government has to borrow money to make the interest payments on the National Debt, not only do we get further in debt - we also don't have the money to do things like preserve our current level of Health Care.

While Canada isn't as bad as the USA yet, Canada pays 11 cents of every tax dollar towards the interest on the National Debt. http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2010/html-eng.asp The best information I can find indicates that the USA pays 20 cents of every tax dollar towards the interest on the National Debt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget For both Canada and the USA, that's not paying down the debt - that's just paying the interest.
The national debt is a different animal, it is the aggregate of our ability to live beyond our means. You want to cut national debt, simple - spend less just like any other sane person would...

A further note on deferred taxes. Due to interpretations such as yours that term was "updated" to be called "future income taxes" a few years ago.
 

InnocentBoy

Banned
Mar 5, 2006
845
6
18
I think there needs to be an income tax filing disclosure in order to become a senator and while you are a senator so the public knows how much tax they pay. After all when your providing a service to the public stuff like that should be transparent.
 

InnocentBoy

Banned
Mar 5, 2006
845
6
18
Again I'd gladly pay a 20% flat tax and put the accountants out of work.
The debt problem in both Canada and the USA is because we voted to spend more at the same time as we voted to be taxed less.

We have to break out of that. Yes, we can spend less. However, that shouldn't be at the cost of our Health Care system. It's inescapable that we have to pay more taxes. At first, we have to pay what we voted not to pay. We have to get where we would have been if we had always paid our fair share. Then, we can look at what is the fairest system of taxation and what amount will give the government enough, but not too much money to operate and deliver the services we are willing to afford.

One of the easiest ways to cut the cost of government is by the wholesale dismantling of government departments. No Child Tax Benefit, no snivel servants to run it. No Unemployment Insurance, no snivel servants to run it. No Veterans allowance, no snivel servants to run it. Each mode of delivering benefits to the population carries it's own load of people to administrate and deliver that mode. If we have a flat tax, we can combine 4 or more modes into one single mode that we need to collect the taxes anyway.
 

DavidMR

New member
Mar 27, 2009
872
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The latest Rasmussen Poll says 33% of Republicans think that the race would be improved with the entry of a new candidate. Sounds like Republicans are having a tough time with the idea of holding their nose and voting for Romney or Gingrich.

Rex Murphy's comment that the current Republican line-up would only be considered the B team in a world with a two letter alphabet is biting for a good reason. Whenever the putative main contenders won't show up, be it the Canadian Liberal leadership in 2006 when McKenna was simply not interested, or whether it's this year's Republican race the failure to show up reveals something. The brighter types realize the "prize" is of little value.

In this case the smarter Republican potential nominees don't want to run for the party in a year where Tea Party lunatics as well as the Religious Right bigots will all have to be somehow managed and controlled, and yet pandered to at the same time. And beyond that, many are fearful of possibly winning and then presiding over an economy that Bernancke now says will need the full-on zero interest rate treatment for at least the next two years. How can they promote recovery and appease the Tea Party/John Birch crowd at the same time? They can't and they know it, and that's why they are staying home.

Smarter Republicans probably want to hold Congress and wait, let Obama be the recession president, and let him propose those tax changes that they will, in a very quiet moment, allow to somehow sneak through, along with cuts to the Pentagon. Such as Canada's F35 program. Ooops!
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
Rex Murphy's comment that the current Republican line-up would only be considered the B team in a world with a two letter alphabet is biting for a good reason. Whenever the putative main contenders won't show up, be it the Canadian Liberal leadership in 2006 when McKenna was simply not interested, or whether it's this year's Republican race the failure to show up reveals something. The brighter types realize the "prize" is of little value.

In this case the smarter Republican potential nominees don't want to run for the party in a year where Tea Party lunatics as well as the Religious Right bigots will all have to be somehow managed and controlled, and yet pandered to at the same time. And beyond that, many are fearful of possibly winning and then presiding over an economy that Bernancke now says will need the full-on zero interest rate treatment for at least the next two years. How can they promote recovery and appease the Tea Party/John Birch crowd at the same time? They can't and they know it, and that's why they are staying home.

Smarter Republicans probably want to hold Congress and wait, let Obama be the recession president, and let him propose those tax changes that they will, in a very quiet moment, allow to somehow sneak through, along with cuts to the Pentagon. Such as Canada's F35 program. Ooops!
I love how the left classifies the Republican Presidential field as weak when the current President had absolutely no experience running anything in his life. Obama can't even deliver a simple speech without a teleprompter! Incidentally we now see the results of electing a President with no resume. Any of these Republican candidates would be infinitely better than Obama. President Downgrade is a perfect label for Obama.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
I love how the left classifies the Republican Presidential field as weak when the current President had absolutely no experience running anything in his life. Obama can't even deliver a simple speech without a teleprompter! Incidentally we now see the results of electing a President with no resume. Any of these Republican candidates would be infinitely better than Obama. President Downgrade is a perfect label for Obama.
The "right" also classifies this bunch as weak; that is why there is no enthusiasm for them. Stephen Colbert brought a much bigger audience to his "campaign" rally in Virginia than any of them. Maybe news for you -- all politicians use teleprompters for major speeches, until the Republicans started trying to deflate Obama's oratory skills by mocking his teleprompter use. Maybe that's why their speeches without using it are so lame.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
Sarah Palin, no matter what people think of her readiness or intelligence, was profoundly damaged when she chose to be McCain's running mate. The options that she had available simply aren't the same pre-run / post-run.
I suspect her options are much greater now. She would probably be a lackluster ex-governor (if she had finished her first term) by now, working for some campaign contributor in Anchorage. She is now wealthy from her book sales and speeches and tv series, and has a considerable following that hangs on her every word (or tweet, or however these people communicate this week). Imagine the mockery she would be enduring if she was actually the current vice-president.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
The "right" also classifies this bunch as weak; that is why there is no enthusiasm for them.
They don't classify them as weak, they just want a candidate that is much more Conservative. Big difference.

all politicians use teleprompters for major speeches, until the Republicans started trying to deflate Obama's oratory skills by mocking his teleprompter use. Maybe that's why their speeches without using it are so lame.
I agree that some politicians use teleprompters for major speeches, but Obama doesn't ever make a public speech without one. Go to YouTube if you want to see Obama speaking without his teleprompter. Frankly speaking, its very embarrassing to watch.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
I agree that some politicians use teleprompters for major speeches, but Obama doesn't ever make a public speech without one. Go to YouTube if you want to see Obama speaking without his teleprompter. Frankly speaking, its very embarrassing to watch.
Or, you could look up the last presidential debate, where he did just fine.











 

Trus'Me

New member
Jul 14, 2011
249
0
0
Devo, you amaze me. (and bring great shame to a great group of artists cum musicians - one of my favourite bands of all time- Devo)

I think I love you, in a twisted and dirty prison inmate way.

Ok, I want to fuck you. There, I said it! Oh to be free!

Typical response from the left. When you can't defend your point you change the subject and/or talk about the right.
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
Typical response from the left. When you can't defend your point you change the subject and/or talk about the right.
Um...er....the subject matter was the use of teleprompters (with which I see nothing wrong). I would love to have one when I have to give any speech (but use Powerpoints instead). How does that change the subject?
 

ThisEndUp

mort à l'entente
There's more to it.

It used to be that even if you lost a nomination race, it was accepted that you were among the best of the best.

With the SuperPACs, Tea Party and Religious Right - all that it means is that you were willing to let others put words in your mouth.

Sarah Palin, no matter what people think of her readiness or intelligence, was profoundly damaged when she chose to be McCain's running mate. The options that she had available simply aren't the same pre-run / post-run.

The same is going to be true of the Republican candidates in this effort. A business or organization that may have thought to employ them now has to look at the baggage they carry as a result of this campaign.

People intelligent enough to educate themselves well enough and earn enough to be seriously considered for candidacy are also, mostly, intelligent enough to say NO to the "honour".

It's why I turned down an offer last year. When the public exposure was weighed against my current quiet, civilized and enjoyable life - I would have considered myself to have lost by being a public figure.

Years ago, I don't think that Pierre Trudeau, Ronald Reagan or Jack Kennedy were, in fact, any better than most of the people that are currently in public life. However, they didn't have to deal with a 24/7 environment of cable news channels. The media environment sucks the greatness out of people.
Pretty well agree with your post Al, but are you not also forgetting Savros (THE major democrat funder) or the unions (labour owns Obama) in the bolded sentence.

Not much difference anymore in left or right, they are each to extremes, but have to say that while Obama can speak (kinda reminds me of MLK), he's bad without a telepromter

Hell look how Obama sold out to the greenies with Keystone for their support, damn those that need jobs. IF he gets re-elected, he will approve Keystone
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
Um...er....the subject matter was the use of teleprompters (with which I see nothing wrong). I would love to have one when I have to give any speech (but use Powerpoints instead). How does that change the subject?
Not that I am complaining but I notice that you often involve yourself in 2 way discussions that aren't really directed at you. My post was actually a response to DavidMR who suggested that the Republicans have a weak line-up.

Actually the subject matter was about Obama being unqualified to be President. His inability to make speeches without a teleprompter was an example of his incompetency. Instead of debating Obama's deficiencies you changed the subject and talked about Republicans.

Its not too late however for you to try and convince us that Obama is qualified and/or is doing a good job of running the country.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
Devo, you amaze me. (and bring great shame to a great group of artists cum musicians - one of my favourite bands of all time- Devo)

I think I love you, in a twisted and dirty prison inmate way.

Ok, I want to fuck you. There, I said it! Oh to be free!
Devo (the musicians) hate Liberals. Sorry to break the news to you.
 
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