Time to pause and consider where I've been and where I am going with this hobby

[Boardroom]

Have been a pooner since 1983 or so. Have been married since 86. I have been a long time lurker and recently started posting.

Active pooner in my hometown as well as when I am away both in Canada and the US.
Between seeing independant ladies as well as visiting ladies at the parlours/ studios I estimate I spend at least $15,000 per year. In the early years it was $5k, then as my earnings and prices rose it was $10k and now $15k. Thats at least $300,000 plus what it could have earned if invested.

I have had some great times. Over the years I have had several ladies in my hometown (as well other cities I visit regularly) who I have had long term relationships with. Some still on the go. Most long term relationships just end because the lady retires. I have also had some individual sessions that were disasters - and felt I was ripped off. Years ago, one of my long term relationships ended with the ladies SO phoning and threatening me. I was so scared of how my life would come crashing down if family and customers and business relationships found out - I almost committed suicide over that one. I really feel for Tiger Woods and others who have been dragged through the mud.

Over the years I have seen psychologists and psychiatrists to help me work through some things. Nothing answers the questions. So I am turning to the community to help me work through things.

I love seeing new ladies - when it works. When it doesn't I say I am never doing that again - but I always do.
I love having long term relationships. Like I said most fade away and then a new one starts. Occasionally I get really depressed because I miss the lady, but I move on eventually. Sometimes I say that's it - I am never seeing another SP, but I always do. There have been times when I have taken a break for a month or two - but never longer than that.

Why do married guys (like me) take part in this hobby? Is it about the variety? Is it because we are lonely, insecure, lacking intimacy or friendships?

I have a great life - Good business, kids, house, vacations. Don't have any real friends - most of my relationships are customers or parents from kids schools, teams, etc..

I have never had an affair - that is to say a relationship with a lady outside of my marriage that didn't involve money. I have thought about it, but wouldn't know how to go about making the first move without risking the lady telling my wife.

Currently in the starting stages of what I hope will be a really long term realtionship (I am talking 10 or 15 years long). I really like this lady. She is so kind and makes me feel good about myself. It is not just about sex and she is not a clock watcher. Sometimes we just talk -never in public though, so this is gonna get real expensive real quick. I am in real estate, so I am thinking of setting her up in an apartment in one of my buildings. Need advice from other guys about this kind of relationship. She already knows my real name. Looking for info about guys that pay a flat rate per month (or provide a car or apartment, etc.) and then sort have a paid mistress with whom you can just call and chat or have text message exchanges outside of "sessions".

Not looking to have her leave her family. As long as my kids are still young I would never leave my wife.

I know I have covered a lot of ground here. Just looking to get a dialogue going.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Merry Christmas

 

[jnewton]

Ah the tangled webs we weave. Sometimes you just have to wish life ... and the human heart ... were simpler. Then again, what do you do when you're with someone who is your friend and finally meet someone that profoundly touches your heart? Cupid is so fickle and irrational. Viva la irrationality!

But, back on topic, what your describing seems like a pretty standard sugar daddy/baby scenario. There are a number of people on here who have been in those relationships so you should be able to get some solid advice.

 

[Gomez Adams]

Currently in the starting stages of what I hope will be a really long term realtionship (I am talking 10 or 15 years long). I really like this lady. She is so kind and makes me feel good about myself. It is not just about sex and she is not a clock watcher. Sometimes we just talk -never in public though, so this is gonna get real expensive real quick. I am in real estate, so I am thinking of setting her up in an apartment in one of my buildings. Need advice from other guys about this kind of relationship. She already knows my real name. Looking for info about guys that pay a flat rate per month (or provide a car or apartment, etc.) and then sort have a paid mistress with whom you can just call and chat or have text message exchanges outside of "sessions".

If you are wanting an exclusive relationship the flat rate will probably be about 10K per month, 5K if she continues to work. Of course those are just ballpark figures, she may be willing to compromise depending on the situation, how much expenses you will be paying and of course the apartment accomodations should be factored in.

Personally i wouldn't do it. Too many things can go wrong especially when the lady is relying on your generosity and monthly payments. I much prefer a lady who is self sufficient and find the pay for each play more wise to avoid any scenarios where a lady might become vindictive if things go wrong. You have much to protect and it sounds like your priority is to keep things discreet, getting that involved with another woman in your situation is asking for trouble.

 

[jattstallion]

I am probably at an earlier stage of your pooning evolution, spending an amount per year, but wanting to moving into more of a sugar daddy type long term arrangement. All i can say is that I understand the reasons and motivations and would go ahead with an arrangement should the right lady come along.

 

[badbadboy]

My situation is very similar to yours except I had a LTR outside of my marriage.

Without getting into the specifics on how or why, suffice it to say it was convenient for all involved.

I met her on one of those on line dating sites, can't even remember which one now.... I am pretty sure we met in 2000 well before 9/11.

Early in 2010 I noticed I was the one who would initiate all calls or texts and I was never on the receiving end of calls or texts.

The sex turned from what was once really good and extremely satisfying for all to "what the fuck am I doing here?" type sex. Why Bother?

I surmised that she had repaired what was broken with her own primary relationship.

As a test one Friday, I said "let's get together on Monday", to which she replied "ok, I'll call you early AM and we can set it up then". She never called and I haven't bothered to call her since. Seemed we had run out of gas and neither figured it was worth repairing.

That's basically when I became an actively seeing SP's again. I had been sporadic in my hobby over the years and registered here in 2006.

So now I see one very nice SP on a pay as you go type plan. We have connected very nicely mentally and physically with each of us able to communicate our needs/wants etc.

Sometimes I will try new SP's for some further excitement too Mainly because I have learned that nothing is forever. I had a lot of fun with a select few, had some very mechanical/overpriced with a couple and a few WTF am I doing here scenarios too.

So where have I been and where am I going with this Hobby? Damned if I know and I have also paused to reflect like you.

All I know at this moment in time, I am happy with where I have been and what I am doing now. Fingers crossed my current fav keeps working in her low volume capacity.

Good luck in your journey

 

[Very Veronica]

Pay the girl for sex, not for social time. If you want to buy her a car apartment gifts that's nice but imo real friends (and you seem to be seeking something meaningful) don't charge to chat. I have a handful of clients with busy lives, married & single whom i'm more than happy to hang out with occasionally or txt with but when they want sexy time, the meter's on. I think that keeps things in check for both parties.

 

[myselftheother]

Pay the girl for sex, not for social time. If you want to buy her a car apartment gifts that's nice but imo real friends (and you seem to be seeking something meaningful) don't charge to chat. I have a handful of clients with busy lives, married & single whom i'm more than happy to hang out with occasionally or txt with but when they want sexy time, the meter's on. I think that keeps things in check for both parties.

VV's just blown the smoke off it....the voice of reason. Don't be so suckered into emotional black holes that suck the life and money out of you, thus impacting the other parts of your life. Don't pay to talk, pay to fuck. I get that you feel something for this new Sp in your life, but what are you gonna do, date and marry her....nope! Get a perspective on your hobby, and keep it as a hobby.

 

[jeraldlecinq]

Pay the girl for sex, not for social time. If you want to buy her a car apartment gifts that's nice but imo real friends (and you seem to be seeking something meaningful) don't charge to chat. I have a handful of clients with busy lives, married & single whom i'm more than happy to hang out with occasionally or txt with but when they want sexy time, the meter's on. I think that keeps things in check for both parties.

Thanks Veronica, that's excellent advise that i wished i had had some time ago. I was fortunate in that is what has been happening, but your short and too the point statement puts it all into perspective.

 

[sevenofnine]

i think there is no right or wrong way to look at things.

myself personally i believe if you want or need something bad enough just go ahead and do it.
as long as well your ok and understands the reasons why you need to do something,
and worry about it all latter

as far as this hobby goes,
i was in a sexless marriage, i needed to feel something sexually.
my fault i guess, my father was a convicted sex offender so most of my life i was confused with this thing we call sex didn't understand it all, i picked a girl to marry who was as non sexual as possible
not her fault just the way she is,
mine problem well i needed more,

im comfortable with this hobby.
i have seen over twenty girls,
but only repeated with two, they became close friends.
still see one,
have seen her for years and years.

this hobby is many many things and i think alot of stuff has been written about why we trade sex for money

um
when i started this i had big fantasies about all the sex i would have and doing everything i could possible imagine to each and every lady i saw.
she to put it bluntly was just a whore.

now i pay her, for sex,
but i try to make it as mutal as possible.
it has to work and be comfortable for both of us, is what im saying,
i pay her a hell of alot of money and spend a nice long evening with her, supper and drinks before we move to her bedroom and well some guy she picks up of craigs list on the cheap gets more out of her then i do,

but i don't see her as a whore
to me she is not a whore at all

she is my friend. and we have talked about being friends for ever, and even sociliazed out side of this not alot because we both have full lives

i guess what im saying trying to say
is follow your feelings. be honest and follow them
and everything will come to you.
you have to trust yourself and do what you feel is right
and you can only be responsible for yourself

 

[badbadboy]

sevenofnine

That is an excellent post!

Made me sit back and think a bit about it.

I also do not think of my regular SP as a whore. She is a person, in fact a very nice person who has made me feel a lot better about myself. She has given a lot to me in the past three or so months.

I would like to spend more time with her but I do not want to infringe nor cross boundaries.

Hanging out, texting and the occasional phone calls outside of 'business' are all good.

 

[Sonny]

The sugardaddy thing is messy in many cases. In pay for play, why incorporate complications? You can see whomever as often you want, by just paying for each whatever length and type of ride you want at a time. Simple.

Boardroom, if you are looking for love, then it would seem your marriage doesn't have it for you, and you should consider closing that chapter and moving on.... I noticed that you did not include the word "wife" in the list of what makes your life great. And, if you are looking for love, remember that money cannot buy it.... maybe a shallow facsimile, but not the real thing. In seeking out emotional relationships, I recommend some preparatory reading, a book titled "Invisible Partners", to help you steer clear of unfortunate entanglements.

I have affection for a number of SPs. They are real people, great sexual company, and .... businesswomen. I've seen several hundred SPs over the past several years and have never regretted the hobby, expensive as it is. For other types of company, I have a few good female friends who also prefer to remain as single as I do (as for marriage... been there, done that).

 

[edmontonsubbie]

This is a pretty heavy duty topic....and one that might have been written to the back pages were it not for some pretty interesting replies. Within that vein, I'll go ahead and offer mine....reply that is.

Background, I'm twice married. The first was the mother of my babies. I left her and them. I waited 5 years before considering another. She fell into my lap and was the one I wished I had met to start. But, that's just foolish....I wouldn't have my beloved babies had that been so.

I left her too. Have you ever left the one you love? Oh fuck, that's some baggage right there. As I finish wrapping up my random gifts for the year, this is the first year I've not even considered sending her something. Perhaps I'm dispensing with baggage. I'm pretty sure I am...and I like it.

To the point of ramping up your relationship with an SP. First off, I have to smile as I recall a comment from none other than Miss Q at the last Merl meeting...and she randomly pops up with "never trust an SP". That's some harsh advice...but, likely apropo. I believe her point to be.....this is a business transaction. Think very very clearly and carefully.....these delightful people are putting themselves out there daily/weekly/monthly...whatever their chosen schedule. Sound familiar? Yes, they are building their business....and, make no mistake...this IS their business. I am fortunate to have run into some very competent business people whilst pursuing all this. I respect that.

Much like business in general, don't ever lose sight that it is nothing but people involved. SP's will fall for you....you will fall for them....but the SP is in the mindset of meeting some fascinating people on a regular basis. She is likely far more cognizant of being the need to compartmentalize her feelings than her client might be. She would be less than competent otherwise. And, lord knows, we are fortunate to have some incredibly competent providers here on Perb.

There will be the odd magical cross over from less to more....but, I am guessing the parties involved need a clear head on what's about to happen. Much like life in general.

hugs, time for a pizza and a beer...or three,

eddie.

 

[maroonedsailor]

whew - deep subject Boardroom. I can't speak for anyone else here but for me things have recently changed with the realization that what I've been doing all these years is trying to fill an empty space far larger than any paid pussy can fill. At best it's a finger in the dam. I think what we're all looking for is a friend and a lover but it seems that the combination of both in a single person is elusive. The oldest joke in the world is the one about the sexless wife who's having it off with the pool guy. Somehow the dynamic of marriage gets wrapped into the old addage that familiarity breeds contempt. It also breeds boredom. I truely envy people who make it for twenty or fifty years and still get hot for each other. That's magic. I think that's what we really want. What we get is a friend and/or a business partner but seldom a lover. There is a huge amount of dishonesty in this world when it comes to sex, love and marriage. The fact that this forum exists as only one of many, is an indicator of how true that is. We get confused by religion, romantic movies, trash novels, music videos etc.etc. and the more electronic the world becomes, the wilder that's going to get. We're in the winter of our discontent but we stay to raise the kids. Fully half of us divorce to try again. Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. All you need is love. volumes are written on the subject and no one has any real answers. A great love relationship is like winning the lottery and just like winning the lottery, you'd better be prepared to manage the program or you'll end up right where you started a year later. Damn - better buy another ticket. Getting married is like buying a lottery ticket. Most of us have no clue what to do if we win so we fuck up the program and think we got a raw deal. Then we go looking for another ticket. My point is that the reason for our discontent is unrealistic expectations, coupled with very bad advice and truely horrible examples. Hardly a reciepe for success. I won't tell you you need to learn to love your wife, since that is almost certainly very bad advice, and I won't tell you to divorce her and try again, since that advice is even worse when I know nothing about your lives. What I can tell you is that you won't likely find it in the arms of an SP. You can't win if you don't play but the rules of the game were never clearly defined much less taught and I think that what we're all looking for, lives not out there but in ourlelves. Until we find that and then freely give it away, we have no hope of happiness and we're fated to chase the elusive dream forever.

 

[Gomez Adams]

There will be the odd magical cross over from less to more....

ah yes, the old St. Andrew's cross over from less to more.

 

[Stbljmpr]

Thanks for the great thread. I am fairly new to Perb but I have been pooning for a long, long time. My first experience was in 1972 at the Portland Rose Festival. She was young and beautiful and I was young and horny. It was one green for the hour and I learned a lot that day. I have been more and less active ever since, all over the world. AND...I got caught 18 months ago by my wife. (Be very careful not to leave your email unsecured. I now have my laptop set to shut down after one minute of inactivity.) Like boardroom I have gone through some serious soul searching. My wife and I are still together and in some ways our relationship is better but I suspect trust will always be an issue for her. I can't say as I blame her.

Eddie's response rang true for me. I have been married three times. The luster(is that a pun) wears off early for me. I have come to the conclusion that marriage, for me at least, will be difficult until I am able to get my own shit in order as suggested by maroonedsailor. I could go on and on with the sordid details of the life decisions I've made I suppose. The point I want to make is that I have been happiest when I have been single and the navigator of my own life journey. For me marriage is like serving on a submarine - lots of ups and downs with very little fresh air. The other thing I've decided is that you can't be partly committed. If that is the case it will become self evident in short order and begin the erode the relationship. So for me I have to decide if I am in or I am out of the marriage. If I get out I won't have to worry about it anymore because I will never get back in. Some people were not meant for marriage - and there is nothing wrong with that.

In the meantime...keep your pecker up

 

[harry22]

Excellent thread -- one that causes many of us to pause. I'm no psychologist, and I'm probably going to get ridiculed here, but what I think fellows like Boardroom are seeking is something Dr. Phil would call the mother/child bond. If that bond doesn't form in infancy (because mom is distant, or detached, or whatever), men (and women) can spend their whole lives trying to find it. This could be at the root of lots of addictions, and particularly sex addiction. Without realizing it, people in this situation think and hope that the next girl friend, the next wife, the next SP, or even the next Mercedes or the next Armani suit, is going to provide what they didn't get from maternal love, which is security and a sense of safety. Of course, those things never do provide the missing bond. So, what Dr. Phil would recommend is that you have to provide it to yourself. You have to talk to that little child inside you and convince him that he's loved and is safe. Once you do that, the Dr Phil theory goes, you become a healthy, authentic adult who can form meaningful relationships with other adults.

I say all this because it makes sense to me and my situation. However, others might think I'm full of shit.

 

[maroonedsailor]

Excellent thread -- one that causes many of us to pause. I'm no psychologist, and I'm probably going to get ridiculed here, but what I think fellows like Boardroom are seeking is something Dr. Phil would call the mother/child bond. If that bond doesn't form in infancy (because mom is distant, or detached, or whatever), men (and women) can spend their whole lives trying to find it. This could be at the root of lots of addictions, and particularly sex addiction. Without realizing it, people in this situation think and hope that the next girl friend, the next wife, the next SP, or even the next Mercedes or the next Armani suit, is going to provide what they didn't get from maternal love, which is security and a sense of safety. Of course, those things never do provide the missing bond. So, what Dr. Phil would recommend is that you have to provide it to yourself. You have to talk to that little child inside you and convince him that he's loved and is safe. Once you do that, the Dr Phil theory goes, you become a healthy, authentic adult who can form meaningful relationships with other adults.

I say all this because it makes sense to me and my situation. However, others might think I'm full of shit.

I for one, Harry, do not think you're full of shit. I do, however submit that there's a lot more to satisfying the "inner child" than just having a conversation with yourself. I'm willing to state that the vast majority of us should be considered damaged goods. The understanding of our human psyche has grown exponentially over the past few years but we're generations away from having our children raised on purpose to be healthy, fully functonal adults. Even then, when the culture is aiding instead of hindering, we'll still have to deal with abberations of all sorts. What I am hopeful for is that we'll deal with this kind of losses at a much earlier age to develop what Martin Seligman refers to as emotional intelligence. The ability to work in society at all levels effectively, form healthy relationships and generally get along. It's his contention that this ability, which comes naturally to a few, is at the root of most successful lives. That would define successful as being healthy socially, personally, physically and financially. The rest of us struggle with one or more areas of underdevelopment. That's the reason I always argue that the educational system is totally upside down. The highest paid professionals should be working K-12. Professors at the university level would be more like well trained study guides because the EQ of their students would have them as already functional adults. Anyway, this is a topic that could run on for hundreds if not thousands of pages and posts. Suffice it to say you can't really love anyone else until you love the one in the mirror and all our pooning is one more way of avoiding that self examination. Then there is always Gods little hormonal joke which keeps the race from dying out. Have fun with that.

 

[maroonedsailor]

and while we're on the subject

Having given due consideration to the end of my previous post (all our pooning is one more way of avoiding that self examination) here's a lil praise on behalf of loving SP's everywhere. Smart men, who are hopefully engaged in the necessary self examination mentioned in previous posts, still make stupid, hormonally driven decisions and end up married (again) to the wrong woman. Spending time with quality SP's to take the edge off the hormone driven temporary insanity we find ourselves in from time to time, is a great way to avoid that trap, while we go about learning what love really is. Thank you Ladies and Merry Christmas to you all.

 

[asianaddict]

Having given due consideration to the end of my previous post (all our pooning is one more way of avoiding that self examination) here's a lil praise on behalf of loving SP's everywhere. Smart men, who are hopefully engaged in the necessary self examination mentioned in previous posts, still make stupid, hormonally driven decisions and end up married (again) to the wrong woman. Spending time with quality SP's to take the edge off the hormone driven temporary insanity we find ourselves in from time to time, is a great way to avoid that trap, while we go about learning what love really is. Thank you Ladies and Merry Christmas to you all.

and from an earlier post in this thread:

The sugardaddy thing is messy in many cases. In pay for play, why incorporate complications? You can see whomever as often you want, by just paying for each whatever length and type of ride you want at a time. Simple.

I've been at this pooning almost a decade, from faceless RT's in little Asian MPs in Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Singapore, you name it, all the way to high class $2000/night escorts who make you genuinely believe you are in love. I don't think it's an addiction or a hole in my life. Maybe it's my hormones that take me to the MP SPs on 15 mins notice, but the truly special memories I have are of those cosmic connections with another person that sometimes happens with some of the really humane women who are in the business. Not everyone is like that, but SPs are people, and I've run across some great people and some shitty people and I choose to remember the great ones and keep doing this because when the sex and the conversation and the time together is special, its worth it.

I could spend money buying a better car (have two nice ones already), or on trips to places I haven't been (got a quarter of a million frequent flyer miles I have no desire to use since I'm always on a plane anyway), or lavish my wife with even more jewelry and gifts (she does ok and doesn't complain so she must be getting enough). Kids are getting an education, so the money I spend hasn't been like a drug addiction.

I wouldn't do the sugar daddy thing. But YMMV. The difference between a great SP and a steady relationship without money is that the SP provides companionship, great sex, and genuine human connection and then you go back to your life when the meter stops. Sugar daddy relationships complicate things and cross over to the demands of a "real" relationship--steadiness, loyalty, responsibility, thinking about the needs of the other outside of the metered time. Keep the two distinct is my advice, otherwise you get confused. The best SPs keep it clear because they don't want you messing with their boundaries either, and so if you get one that wants you as sugar daddy on a retainer model, you may have just gotten yourself a secret gold digger, so watch out (not to insult the girl you're wanting to support, but if you want to support a woman, marry her, otherwise keep the financials clean and clear).

All of this IMHO of course and my two cents is worth just about that much...

 

[Boardroom]

Hey everybody, thanks for all the great input. Agree with some and disagree with other views - but that's natural.
Lots to think about over the next few weeks. My regular SP is going to Hawaii for a couple weeks with her husband and kids, so we will be out of touch for a while.

Glad I was able to contribute a topic that got lots of input and different perspectives for all.

Happy Holidays!