Out of curiosity...would an SP be willing to do BBFS if she was provided with full blood test results?
I'm not interested for the record...
I'm not interested for the record...
Discussion - Lost another Regular to BBFS... WTF!
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that brings you right back to the beginning of the whole issue of this debate Trans. many probably would not, though I would imagine some might consider for the right $$$. this is a rather touchy subject on this board and many prefer to leave it alone and really it should not be offered. buuuuut it does happen, thus our debate about "safe" sex and what we percieve as acceptable risk, not only to yourself but to others. my impression from some people could be compared to the ostrich that has "its head in the sand, it cant see you so it must not be there" they are only looking at one particular aspect of a sex act, that while is considered the highest risk to perform, its not the only risk to perform and thats what needs to be understood.
For lenny, also from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HIV-positive_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nushawn_Williams
It almost seems like the infection rate and time between getting infected and passing it along, in real life not statistical life, is much shorter and much more direct than lenny would like you to believe. I do not really understand how he cherry picks the things he copy/pastes and the things that do not support his theory. After all, this is the same guy who claims getting an sp tested in Thailand, her getting a clean bill of hill, him going right to bbfs with her over an extended period of time, resulted in his getting the chlamydia the tester failed to report. hmmm, sounds to me like the test results are doctored? For a fee? Like, duh, no kidding, wtf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_James
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HIV-positive_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nushawn_Williams
Williams was convicted of infecting 13 women. It is clear others were infected as well, but that does sound like pretty high rate, statistically, of infecting these women. It is unlikely he spent months or years having bb sex with all of them, in order to get that many infected, don't you agree?
It almost seems like the infection rate and time between getting infected and passing it along, in real life not statistical life, is much shorter and much more direct than lenny would like you to believe. I do not really understand how he cherry picks the things he copy/pastes and the things that do not support his theory. After all, this is the same guy who claims getting an sp tested in Thailand, her getting a clean bill of hill, him going right to bbfs with her over an extended period of time, resulted in his getting the chlamydia the tester failed to report. hmmm, sounds to me like the test results are doctored? For a fee? Like, duh, no kidding, wtf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_James
forget about stats, forget about all that crap. throw it out the window right now ppl.
wake up and smell the roses its happening will continue to happen and no matter how many times this topic gets beaten to a dead horse it will not change. if you think this happens because of paying more or because of clean papers or because of desperation think again. the times its happened to me none of those reasons came into play.
wake up and smell the roses its happening will continue to happen and no matter how many times this topic gets beaten to a dead horse it will not change. if you think this happens because of paying more or because of clean papers or because of desperation think again. the times its happened to me none of those reasons came into play.
Honestly, I don't know, as i haven't studied the case.
How many sex acts are we speaking of?
Was it BBFS?
Did he take ARV HIV drugs or have a high viral load?
Did he blow his load inside them? Was it huge?
Did he or they have any other STI's?
The rate of HIV transmission can vary a lot depending on various factors.
Was anyone a drug addict or IDU?
Did he purposely nick or cut himself when shaving his penile hairs just before sex?
Did he administer date drugs &/or inject his blood while his victims were passed out?
I think this might be a case for Sherlock Holmes.
http://sherlock-holmes-movie.warnerbros.com/dvd/index.html
Williams is one story. Other stories speak of BBFS for years & decades with no problems,
even with HIV infected SO's.
Before the time of the clamydia infection i had seen some of the HIV test result papers of the SPs i had BBFS with, the ones i was seeing regularly, but not any of their other STI results. With my present knowledge of other STI's & how they can significantly increase the possibility of HIV infection, in the future i intend to see their other STD test results as well as both antibody & p24 antigen tests for HIV.
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Hi
What a great discussion, there have been a lot of points that have been brought up.
I have met a few clients over the years who have engaged in BBFS with sex workers. I have seen this fall into three main areas.
The first area has been when the sex worker has been offered more money; all the situations I have heard about personally were related to sex workers who were working on the street and desperate for cash. The men I talked to who paid extra for this were usually unaware of the risk they were taking “its hard for a man to get HIV from a woman”(not true) or they felt they had some special sense of picking a “clean” woman. I do remember some men who had trouble keeping an erection with a condom who were also in this group.
The second area I have heard about from the men and woman has happened when people get emotionally close or they feel more connected with the person. Sex is powerful it has the potential to connect us physically and emotionally with other human beings.
This is a really common thing we see in the clinic with people in new relationships who come in for testing after they have been together for a few months. It seems like the start out using condoms but then they just stop after a while. I am interested in this so I always ask about their decision around condom use, sometimes they say it was because the STI test results came back negative but most of the time people say things like “I got to know them better”, “They are a really nice person they couldn’t have anything”, “They look to healthy to have anything” etc..
It seems as we get emotionally closer and start to trust someone we feel safer.
The third situation I have heard about has been from people who get caught in the heat of the moment. In this health forum at the moment it is easy for us to make decisions based on logic and what we should do based on the latest research etc… The problem is that people usually make decisions based on emotion. I guy called Dan Ariely has done some great research on this subject and wrote a book titled “predictably irrational”. I remember one of his research studies were he got men to fill out questionnaires when they were feeling horny (he got them to masturbate), it was amazing how differently they answered these based on if they were feeling horny or not.
HN
What a great discussion, there have been a lot of points that have been brought up.
I have met a few clients over the years who have engaged in BBFS with sex workers. I have seen this fall into three main areas.
The first area has been when the sex worker has been offered more money; all the situations I have heard about personally were related to sex workers who were working on the street and desperate for cash. The men I talked to who paid extra for this were usually unaware of the risk they were taking “its hard for a man to get HIV from a woman”(not true) or they felt they had some special sense of picking a “clean” woman. I do remember some men who had trouble keeping an erection with a condom who were also in this group.
The second area I have heard about from the men and woman has happened when people get emotionally close or they feel more connected with the person. Sex is powerful it has the potential to connect us physically and emotionally with other human beings.
This is a really common thing we see in the clinic with people in new relationships who come in for testing after they have been together for a few months. It seems like the start out using condoms but then they just stop after a while. I am interested in this so I always ask about their decision around condom use, sometimes they say it was because the STI test results came back negative but most of the time people say things like “I got to know them better”, “They are a really nice person they couldn’t have anything”, “They look to healthy to have anything” etc..
It seems as we get emotionally closer and start to trust someone we feel safer.
The third situation I have heard about has been from people who get caught in the heat of the moment. In this health forum at the moment it is easy for us to make decisions based on logic and what we should do based on the latest research etc… The problem is that people usually make decisions based on emotion. I guy called Dan Ariely has done some great research on this subject and wrote a book titled “predictably irrational”. I remember one of his research studies were he got men to fill out questionnaires when they were feeling horny (he got them to masturbate), it was amazing how differently they answered these based on if they were feeling horny or not.
HN
For all those who want to discontinue this conversation let me remind you that it is by choosing to not discuss these things that we contribute to the very ignorance that produces men, in this day and age, who do not know there are risks to bbfs with sex workers.
Lenny, you have proven that statistics are fallible due to the fact that we do not know many of the variables related to each incident.
The percentage of incidences where condoms are used but pregnancies result do not tell us about how the condom was used, or how it was removed after the semen was discharged. It does show that most people who use condoms are doing it correctly and we have to accept that in any population there will be a percentage of 'idiot savants'.
During my years of escorting, after seeing many, many, many clients, I have never had one incident of infection of anything, with exception to a reaction to spermicidal lube, which I discontinued. (the nineties and the thought that spermicidal lube could help to reduce exposure to HIV)
I left this biz in the late nineties before the inclusion of activities that involved sharing saliva. I never shared any saliva with clients and what saliva was deposited on the body through drooling (lol) was washed off at the end of the session.
After leaving the biz I had a long term relationship with a fellow and developed a cervical condition. I never had a negative pap smear in all my life until the 6th year of my relationship....so much for monogamy!
Lenny, you have proven that statistics are fallible due to the fact that we do not know many of the variables related to each incident.
The percentage of incidences where condoms are used but pregnancies result do not tell us about how the condom was used, or how it was removed after the semen was discharged. It does show that most people who use condoms are doing it correctly and we have to accept that in any population there will be a percentage of 'idiot savants'.
During my years of escorting, after seeing many, many, many clients, I have never had one incident of infection of anything, with exception to a reaction to spermicidal lube, which I discontinued. (the nineties and the thought that spermicidal lube could help to reduce exposure to HIV)
I left this biz in the late nineties before the inclusion of activities that involved sharing saliva. I never shared any saliva with clients and what saliva was deposited on the body through drooling (lol) was washed off at the end of the session.
After leaving the biz I had a long term relationship with a fellow and developed a cervical condition. I never had a negative pap smear in all my life until the 6th year of my relationship....so much for monogamy!
little head
HN, you are really funny and indirect, i believe you summed up the whole deabte by basically saying men are thinking with their other head
.
you know what, unfourtunatly, this is a bit of serious topic since people are talking about the spread of STD.
i would say this, would you say it is OK for drug users to share a needle with someone else when they just met? even though durg use has other health hazzard besides getting HIV or hepitatis.
or
it is OK to smoke in a public gathering place since it "does not effect other people"?
or
it is OK to drink and drive since most people can control themselves under 2-3 beers?
or
it is OK to text and drive since accidents only happen very infrequently?
or
it is OK to do BBFS with SPs(or clients) who sees 20-30 clients(unknown # of SPs) per month who tells me they have regular check up?
the only thing you have to ask is, are you really only effecting yourself? are you married? have a relationship?people that care about you?future relationship ever?
i do poon and do plan to continue, for the people think that if you are not man enough to put up with people who do BBFS, stop pooning, you are out to lunch, it is like saying if you can't put up with people drinking and driving, stop driving.....,talking about tail wagging the dog.
hahaaaaa!
HN, you are really funny and indirect, i believe you summed up the whole deabte by basically saying men are thinking with their other head
.you know what, unfourtunatly, this is a bit of serious topic since people are talking about the spread of STD.
i would say this, would you say it is OK for drug users to share a needle with someone else when they just met? even though durg use has other health hazzard besides getting HIV or hepitatis.
or
it is OK to smoke in a public gathering place since it "does not effect other people"?
or
it is OK to drink and drive since most people can control themselves under 2-3 beers?
or
it is OK to text and drive since accidents only happen very infrequently?
or
it is OK to do BBFS with SPs(or clients) who sees 20-30 clients(unknown # of SPs) per month who tells me they have regular check up?
the only thing you have to ask is, are you really only effecting yourself? are you married? have a relationship?people that care about you?future relationship ever?
i do poon and do plan to continue, for the people think that if you are not man enough to put up with people who do BBFS, stop pooning, you are out to lunch, it is like saying if you can't put up with people drinking and driving, stop driving.....,talking about tail wagging the dog.
There are a number of different strategies that can work when you are trying to have safer sex.
I think the one at the top of the list is how you have sex e.g getting a hand job or tit fucking is safer than unprotected vaginal sex.
Condoms (male and female) have shown they can reduce the chance of getting or passing STI. They can give better protection depending on the STI e.g. condoms offer better protection for the STI that are in the fluid like HIV, chlamydia etc… They also offer protection to the one’s that pass skin to skin like HPV, herpes and syphilis, just not as much.
I think what I am hearing in this discussion and a good point is that the most important thing about your risk of getting an STI from someone is really around this person having something in the first place.
If you are just with one person and you have been both tested for HIV (after the window period) you can have as much unprotected rectal sex as you want, there is no risk to getting HIV.
The main problem is how do you know if someone has an STI or not.
Regular testing will reduce the risk but does have its limitations e.g. most doctors do not offer throat testing for people who have performed oral sex on a man, common infections like herpes and HPV are not tested for when people come for a routine screen. It is possible to get and pass on the infection to the next person before your next test.
I think that this type of information is general to everyone who has sex not just sex workers and their clients.
HN
I think the one at the top of the list is how you have sex e.g getting a hand job or tit fucking is safer than unprotected vaginal sex.
Condoms (male and female) have shown they can reduce the chance of getting or passing STI. They can give better protection depending on the STI e.g. condoms offer better protection for the STI that are in the fluid like HIV, chlamydia etc… They also offer protection to the one’s that pass skin to skin like HPV, herpes and syphilis, just not as much.
I think what I am hearing in this discussion and a good point is that the most important thing about your risk of getting an STI from someone is really around this person having something in the first place.
If you are just with one person and you have been both tested for HIV (after the window period) you can have as much unprotected rectal sex as you want, there is no risk to getting HIV.
The main problem is how do you know if someone has an STI or not.
Regular testing will reduce the risk but does have its limitations e.g. most doctors do not offer throat testing for people who have performed oral sex on a man, common infections like herpes and HPV are not tested for when people come for a routine screen. It is possible to get and pass on the infection to the next person before your next test.
I think that this type of information is general to everyone who has sex not just sex workers and their clients.
HN
True, although there are all kinds of BBFS. BBFS within certain contexts is considered safer sex
than using a condom:
"The most reliable ways to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) , including human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) , are to abstain from sexual activity or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with an uninfected partner."
http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm
It might be of interest to consider the relative risks re HIV, such as in the following example which uses an estimated HIV infection rate of 5 in 10,000 ( from Wikipedia) , i.e. 1 in 2000, for an uninfected male having vaginal sex with a HIV positive female. Also assumed is a 10% figure for the liklihood a randomly chosen lady or FSW (female sex worker) is infected with HIV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV#Transmission
"If we take Degan`s number of 1/2000, and use 10% infection in the target group (and that is probably too large, but we`ll go with it) , we arrive at 13, 862. 6 sexual encounters to have a 50% probability of infection. That`s a different partner every single day for about 38 years, and then it is only even money you are infected."
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/327875-the-hiv-scam/page__st__75
(ref posts 87, 89, 96)
The estimated rate of HIV in FSW in Thailand was listed as 2.79% in the following study, but it is likely much less amongst non drug addicted SP`s in Canada.
http://www.unaids.org/en/dataanalys.../thailand_2010_country_progress_report_en.pdf
Using that percentage of 2.79% the above quote would change to say:
"If we take Degan`s number of 1/2000, and use 2.79% infection in the target group, we arrive at 49600 sexual encounters to have a slightly less than 50% probability of infection. That`s a different partner every single day for about 137 years, and then it is only even money you are infected."
Change that to BBFS once every other day and there is a 95% chance of not being HIV infected in 20 years. It would be 90% after 40 years & 86% for 60 years, a lifetime of being sexually active. After 200 years it would be only a 40% chance of getting HIV, but who lives that long.
Consistent condom use (CFS) that reduced the HIV risk relative to BBFS by 95% would give you a 99.37% chance of not being infected with HIV, having CFS with SP`s thrice weekly for 60 years, with a transmission rate of 1 in 2000 and a SP infected rate of 2.79%. For BBFS it would be 88%, 94.5% if circumcised.
As you can see, based on these figures alone, there is only a few percentage points separating BBFS and CFS. So they would indicate, apart from a consideration of other factors, that there is not a great amount of difference in risk between the two, during a lifetime of sex, except for the usual sensation factor absent in sex with a plastic baggie.
But how reliable are these figures, assuming my math has no mistakes? There is more to the story that would support the case that the difference between CFS & BBFS is wider than what these stats would imply, as detailed below.
BTW, even a few percentage points difference, (though not of much significance betwen two individuals, one using a condom & one not), will have a huge impact in the big picture of hundreds of millions of people, in terms of HIV and other infections, which is what `the powers that be` concern themselves with. So those practicing BBFS should do it safely, such as in a monogamous relationship, or with other safe sex practices, as mentioned here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-sex-article&p=1252316&viewfull=1#post1252316
The 1 in 2000 Wikipedia estimated rate of HIV transmission could vary depending on a number of factors. Factors that could make the HIV transmission rate higher (or more likely) are vaginal sores, STIs, high viral load, "dry sex", sex during menses (female-to-male transmission) & bleeding during sexual intercourse.
Factors that could make the transmission rate lower are the absence of those problems, male circumcision, use of commercial lubrication, less friction, HIV immunity, and HIV ARV meds minimizing the viral load.
The "presence of other STDS or vaginal/cervical abrasions increases the risk of transmission. Obviously, women with a large number of sexual partners are more likely to have these than women without. Abrasions etc are virtually an occupational hazard of sex work."
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/327875-the-hiv-scam/page__st__75
Hence the importance of those engaging in BBFS to see that a SP has recently tested negative for STDs, especially HIV (using both 1. antibody and 2. NAT &/or p24 antigen tests).
It is stated that an old (1994) study of sex workers in Thailand estimated the HIV transmission rate there was 1 in 100. It has been implied that may have been due to such things as an absence of male circumcision & the presence of STDs which increase the liklihood of HIV transmission. Some research has questioned the validity of the Thai study. Another commented as follows:
"The sharply increased infectivity reported among female sex workers` clients in an Asian setting may reflect differences by disease stage, as the infectivity study (33) conducted in Asia took place at the start of the epidemic when a large proportion of index cases were in early stages of infection (33, 34). The elevated infectivity in the Asian study also may reflect unmeasured STI co-factor effects, as a large proportion of sex worker index cases were infected with STIs during the study period (67)."
http://journals.lww.com/jaids/Fullt..._of_Heterosexual_Transmission_of_HIV_.10.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7904668
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744983/
A number of studies came up with estimates of 1 in 1000. A later (2008) report analyzed previous research on this topic & warned that the 1 in 1000 figure may be too high. Yet a recent (2010) study of couples found 1 infection per 2200 (5 in 11,000) acts of BBFS with those known to be HIV positive. No infections resulted from 7000 BBFS encounters with HIV infected individuals on ARV drugs.
"Our findings suggest that in many contexts – particularly in the absence of male circumcision or in the presence of STIs, anal sex, or early or late infection – the heterosexual infectivity of HIV-1 may exceed the commonly cited value of 0·001 (1 in 1000) by more than an order of magnitude."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20472675
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744983/
As to the percentage of HIV infected SP`s i think it likely that those SP`s who engage in BBFS often are probably going to have a higher rate of HIV & STD infections than SP`s in general. So the general rate of an estimated 2.79% of infected FSW in Thailand is probably higher amongst those who offer BBFS than those who refuse this service. Consequently the above calculations based on 2.79% for BBFS are inaccurate and should be recalculated at a higher percentage.
Amongst those engaging in BBFS with SP`s, a lower (vs higher) millage SP would probably be safer. As would a first world vs third world SP. An SP who allows anal sex, even with a condom, is also high risk relative to those who don`t, since even covered Greek appears to be about as risky as BBFS.
Conclusion: Sex with or without condoms, especially BBFS, may not be as safe for individuals as certain stats may imply, hence additional safety practices are recommended for personal safety as well as for your partner & the community as a whole.
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very long winded agreement
thank you for considering using all safety practices including "CONDOMS" when having sex with strangers.:clap2:
Studies found the so-called "perfect" use of condoms, that is correctly and consistently, leads to 1 pregnancy in every 50 couples in a year, i.e. a 2% pregnancy rate. I would assume that includes being properly "removed after the semen was discharged", but i haven't read the research.
"There are two ways to see how effective condoms are. They are method effectiveness, where how many couples that use the condom every time they have sex properly do not get pregnant are looked at; and actual effectiveness, where the number of people that use condoms either correctly or incorrectly and do not get pregnant are looked at. Most studies show results of effectiveness over a year.
"The method failure rate of condoms is 2% per year.[1] The actual failure rate is different in different places, and the rates can be anywhere between 10 and 18% per year.[2]"
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom#In_preventing_pregnancy
This 2% has been accounted for by defects in the condom that lead to it slipping, breaking, or having small holes or tears large enough to leak sperm. Such holes and tears may easily not be noticed or be imperceptible to the naked eye.
The rates that condoms alone allow pregnancy are somewhat less than for coitus interruptus alone, i.e. BBFS without ejaculating inside the female.
"For couples that use coitus interruptus correctly at every act of intercourse, the failure rate is 4% per year. In comparison the pill has a perfect-use failure rate of 0.3%, and the I.U.D. has a perfect-use failure rate of 0.6%. The condom has a perfect-use failure rate of 2%.[8]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus
"The presence of sperm in the fluid is debated. Existing research has found none or low levels of sperm in pre-ejaculate, though these existing studies are non-generalizable due to examining small numbers of men. [1][2][3][4] A contrary, yet non-generalizable study found mixed evidence, and individual cases of a high sperm concentration have been recently published.[5]
"...Popular belief--dating back to a 1966 Masters & Johnson study[11] --states that pre-ejaculate may contain sperm that can cause pregnancy, which is a common basis of argument against the use of coitus interruptus (withdrawal) as a contraceptive method. However, some studies have found that withdrawal could be almost as effective as condoms in preventing pregnancy.[12] There have been several small-scale studies (sample sizes ranging from 4 to 23[5]) that conclude no sperm is present, and thus, pre-ejaculate is ineffectual at causing pregnancy.[1][2][3][4]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-ejaculate
"The advantage of coitus interruptus is that it can be used by people who have objections to or do not have access to other forms of contraception. Some men prefer it so they can avoid possible adverse effects of hormonal contraceptives on their partners or so that they can have a full experience and really be able to "feel" their partner.[18] Some women also prefer this method over hormonal contraception to avoid adverse effects such as depression, mood swings, vaginal dryness, decreased libido, weight gain, and headaches, among others. It has no direct monetary cost, requires no artificial devices, has no physical side effects, can be practiced without a prescription or medical consultation, and provides no barriers to stimulation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus
I have seen cases where pregnancy has occurred without penetration. Yet we still see the odd one out there wondering if bbps is 'ok' as long as the opening of the penis isn't in contact with the vagina opening. Like what kind of guy does not know that fluids come out regardless of where the opening is, at any time, and if it didn't, there would be no word to describe 'precum' lol. Just like the sps who do bbbjs will swear up and down it is OK as long as there is no CIM, and if there is, no swallow. So will the ones who do offer bbfs make it conditional on no CIP (Like by that time it makes a difference).
There is a lot of ignorance out there in the world. I don't think any reasonable human being would visit an sp who is ignorant or lacks access to the proper education on sexual health and not discuss what she is offering/doing in sessions, and help her out. She seems to be OK to suck dick, but not OK enough to help protect her from death or disease, is the message I am hearing from the guys who are offered or partake in bbfs from the ignorant/uneducated sps out there.
There is a lot of ignorance out there in the world. I don't think any reasonable human being would visit an sp who is ignorant or lacks access to the proper education on sexual health and not discuss what she is offering/doing in sessions, and help her out. She seems to be OK to suck dick, but not OK enough to help protect her from death or disease, is the message I am hearing from the guys who are offered or partake in bbfs from the ignorant/uneducated sps out there.
It's been known to happen. In fact that can be a selling point for BBFS. But due to the high risks of relying on a condom (2-18%) or pulling out (4-28%) to avoid pregnancy, i'd recommend a backup method of birth control. There are a lot of different options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Family_Planning
Other conditions for SP's or clients engaging in BBFS with each other are suggested, such as can be included in a monogamous sex relationship, or an open marriage, in which one can seldom know with 100% assurance the other partner is being faithful. For example the understanding that neither will engage in BBFS with anyone else, regular STI testing & sharing the same with each other, etc. Other conditions could also make it safer for all involved, like circumcision, no covered Greek, etc. I think with a little care as to such safe sex practices &/or having a proper read on your partner, BBFS in this business can be as safe as CFS without the same practices.
I'm sure there are FSWs out there who enjoy BBFS as much as males do & who generally cover it up, but with the one right guy they are, or would be, up for it. Call it SBBFS monogamy, if you like.
yay more fear mongering and ignorance yourself there. im very educated on the so called risks thanks. as are the ladies that have offered it. so because i dont fit into your mold im lacking education? how very profound. i guess a lot of sp's and pooners are terrible people.
this just in. it feels better. wow. there i said it.
How is it fear mongering to post facts? You don't like the facts, then don't read them, but don't try to say there is no merit in the actual facts. I mean, here's a guy with HIV, has sex with 12 different women and nine of them get AIDs. That seems like pretty high odds, so are those the odds you are willing to play? NO one said you can get HIV from someone who doesn't have HIV, but are you telling me that having bbfs with someone who has bbfs with clients on a regular and high volume basis, doesn't have something she wants to pass on to you? And given the odds, that 75% of the women one guy in Texas has sex with get infected by him and only him, what exactly do you think your chances are?
It is real, and it does happen. Who exactly do you think does bbfs? Healthy people? Smart people? People who can spell, or people who cannot. You can keep trying to convince people that the sps who offer this know what they are doing, but you know full well you are lying. If they knew, if they were not ignorant of the facts (which only means they don't know them, not sure what you think ignorant means) that means they are not educated (about the transmission of stds) again, it is a reality, not an insult. You are either ignorant (don't know) or informed (know) about std transmission. Someone who is informed has taken the time to educate themselves. It is as simple as that.
If you are ignorant, then own it, but don't try to claim you know anything about anything, because you've already admitted that you haven't bothered to educate yourself and learn. Just as you don't bother to find out the truth, neither do the ones you claim provide. It isn't something to be ashamed of, not knowing things. But you shouldn't discuss it like you know what you are talking about.
Sorry, but bbfs in this biz is done by ignorant people, I could care less how you try to spin it. It feels better?, wow, like who cares? You don't pay someone to give you stds or HIV, or a baby. You pay to avoid complications that come from ignorance and someone's fear of lost income. You don't take advantage of the ignorant if you yourself know better.
Hi!
Please PM me the ones you have seen. I will make sure i do not see them.
thank you!
im not oblivious to risks. i dont think many ppl are doing this. most of the times its happened to me its been a case of being caught in the moment and things naturally progressed that way without either party stopping it. how this equates to being ignorant or comparing it to kicking a baby i dont know. im not sitting her saying everyone should do what i do. im saying what ive done matter of factly. i chose to be honest. i chose not to stick my head in the sand and cry like the worlds coming to an end. my msg is for the ppl who think it doesnt happen at all and im saying it does. and that the reasons are not at all complicated but very very straight fwd. two ppl share amazing chemistry and its bound to happen.
i take your post as fear mongering. quite simple. its like talking about plane crashes. you only talk about the horrific crashes like the odds are 1:1. the avg person knows it happens but at the same time realizes that overall life comes with risks and that its not enough to lose sleep over. i fall in that category. im not ignorant. i know the rates and risks and quotients. some of us are just tired of always hearing about the blatant misuse of stats. the diff here is im not telling you to ride raw. im not telling anyone to change anything. you however are using stats to indirectly tell ppl to cover up because if you dont its ignorant and stupid. notice the diff? its subtle. im relaying my own personal experiences. and wanted to clarify that when it has happened it wasnt with old chinese aunties or chicks needing a fix. price had nth to do with it. there seemed to me a general misconception that those who offer that service are what ppl pigeonhole as sw's or other types predominantly at highrisk. and im simply stating the $200 and $300 crowd everyone loves here arent secluded from it. it happens everywhere. that is all.
i take your post as fear mongering. quite simple. its like talking about plane crashes. you only talk about the horrific crashes like the odds are 1:1. the avg person knows it happens but at the same time realizes that overall life comes with risks and that its not enough to lose sleep over. i fall in that category. im not ignorant. i know the rates and risks and quotients. some of us are just tired of always hearing about the blatant misuse of stats. the diff here is im not telling you to ride raw. im not telling anyone to change anything. you however are using stats to indirectly tell ppl to cover up because if you dont its ignorant and stupid. notice the diff? its subtle. im relaying my own personal experiences. and wanted to clarify that when it has happened it wasnt with old chinese aunties or chicks needing a fix. price had nth to do with it. there seemed to me a general misconception that those who offer that service are what ppl pigeonhole as sw's or other types predominantly at highrisk. and im simply stating the $200 and $300 crowd everyone loves here arent secluded from it. it happens everywhere. that is all.
difference
in your example between the plane crash and BBFS, there is one huge difference. as a plane rider client, you have no control over the flying or the function of the plane, as a poon client, you have every control over what happens during the session(unless rape - not your standard session).
as far as two ppl share amazing chemistry ??? trust me you are not the only one who has experienced "THAT".this is where the real difference is, either you(not just you) are a responsible adult or just a young teenager in lust.
look , the spreading of STD(not just HIV) is something that can be reduced, maybe not entirely eliminated. We should at least strive towards that goal. 150 yrs ago Sphyilis was rampant in the human population, it is now almost neglegible in north america.
Hi!
in your example between the plane crash and BBFS, there is one huge difference. as a plane rider client, you have no control over the flying or the function of the plane, as a poon client, you have every control over what happens during the session(unless rape - not your standard session).
as far as two ppl share amazing chemistry ??? trust me you are not the only one who has experienced "THAT".this is where the real difference is, either you(not just you) are a responsible adult or just a young teenager in lust.
look , the spreading of STD(not just HIV) is something that can be reduced, maybe not entirely eliminated. We should at least strive towards that goal. 150 yrs ago Sphyilis was rampant in the human population, it is now almost neglegible in north america.
It can be hard to know what meaning you can take from certain statistics. I think that statistics can be really helpful when looking at population level situations (large groups of people) but can sometimes be more of a problem when you get to the level of the individual person.
An example of this would be with HIV transmission where there are so many variables that change the HIV risk e.g. Is the person on HIV medication, did the person just get HIV a few months ago, does the person have an STI etc…
This means that someone could be receiving vaginal sex and be more at risk for HIV because their partner just got HIV a few months ago (Acute HIV infection when someone has a high viral load ) When compared to the rectal sex they had with someone who has been on the HIV medication for a long time. In this example the vaginal sex would be more risky than the rectal sex.
What I think people can take away is that unprotected vaginal and rectal sex gives a good chance that HIV could be passed to you over time and that condoms work really well at reducing this risk.
The statistics also tell us that the most common STI are chlamydia, herpes simplex virus and HPV.
HN
www.healthnurse.wordpress.com
www.stiresource.com
www.bccdc.ca
An example of this would be with HIV transmission where there are so many variables that change the HIV risk e.g. Is the person on HIV medication, did the person just get HIV a few months ago, does the person have an STI etc…
This means that someone could be receiving vaginal sex and be more at risk for HIV because their partner just got HIV a few months ago (Acute HIV infection when someone has a high viral load ) When compared to the rectal sex they had with someone who has been on the HIV medication for a long time. In this example the vaginal sex would be more risky than the rectal sex.
What I think people can take away is that unprotected vaginal and rectal sex gives a good chance that HIV could be passed to you over time and that condoms work really well at reducing this risk.
The statistics also tell us that the most common STI are chlamydia, herpes simplex virus and HPV.
HN
www.healthnurse.wordpress.com
www.stiresource.com
www.bccdc.ca
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