Young man who seriously assaulted bus driver given 18-month conditional sentence
Our justice system is an absolute joke!
Our justice system is an absolute joke!
Young man who seriously assaulted bus driver given 18-month conditional sentence
- Thread starter tokugawa
- Start date
Why was he bounced between foster homes and his parents if they were alcoholics and drug addicts?
Acknowledging past abuses of Natives shouldn't absolve them of accountability for serious, violent crimes. This is a tow-tiered justice system. What about the white, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, etc etc who had abusive upbringings?
Acknowledging past abuses of Natives shouldn't absolve them of accountability for serious, violent crimes. This is a tow-tiered justice system. What about the white, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, etc etc who had abusive upbringings?
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is a serious condition akin to mental illness. It leaves many unable to determine consequences or right vs wrong.
Alcohol (wine, beer, or liquor) is the leading known preventable cause of developmental and physical birth defects in the United States.
When a woman drinks alcohol during pregnancy, she risks giving birth to a child who will pay the price — in mental and physical deficiencies — for his or her entire life.
Yet many pregnant women do drink alcohol. It's estimated that each year in the United States, 1 in every 750 infants is born with a pattern of physical, developmental, and functional problems referred to as fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS), while another 40,000 are born with fetal alcohol effects (FAE).
Signs and Symptoms
If you adopted a child or consumed alcohol during pregnancy and are concerned that your child may have FAS, watch for characteristics of the syndrome, which include:
•low birth weight
•small head circumference
•failure to thrive
•developmental delay
•organ dysfunction
•facial abnormalities, including smaller eye openings, flattened cheekbones, and indistinct philtrum (an underdeveloped groove between the nose and the upper lip)
•epilepsy
•poor coordination/fine motor skills
•poor socialization skills, such as difficulty building and maintaining friendships and relating to groups
•lack of imagination or curiosity
•learning difficulties, including poor memory, inability to understand concepts such as time and money, poor language comprehension, poor problem-solving skills
•behavioral problems, including hyperactivity, inability to concentrate, social withdrawal, stubbornness, impulsiveness, and anxiety
Children with FAE display the same symptoms, but to a lesser degree.
Continue
ListenDiagnosis and Long-Term EffectsProblems associated with FAS tend to intensify as children move into adulthood. These can include developmental health problems, troubles with the law, and the inability to live independently.
Kids with FAE are frequently undiagnosed. This also applies to those with alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder (ARND), a recently recognized category of prenatal damage that refers to children who exhibit only the behavioral and emotional problems of FAS/FAE without any signs of developmental delay or physical growth deficiencies.
Often, in kids with FAE or ARND, the behavior can appear as mere belligerence or stubbornness. They may score well on intelligence tests, but their behavioral deficits often interfere with their ability to succeed. Extensive education and training for the parents, health care professionals, and teachers who care for these kids are essential.
How Much Alcohol Is Too Much?It's clear that abusing alcohol during pregnancy is dangerous, but what about the occasional drink? How much alcohol constitutes too much during pregnancy?
No evidence exists that can determine exactly how much alcohol ingestion will produce birth defects. Individual women process alcohol differently. Other factors vary the results, too, such as the age of the mother, the timing and regularity of the alcohol ingestion, and whether the mother has eaten any food while drinking.
Although full-blown FAS is the result of chronic alcohol use during pregnancy, FAE and ARND may occur with only occasional or binge drinking.
Because alcohol easily passes the placental barrier and the fetus is less equipped to eliminate alcohol than its mother, the fetus tends to receive a high concentration of alcohol, which lingers longer than it would in the mother's system.
Mothers who drink during the first trimester of pregnancy have kids with the most severe problems because that is when the brain is developing. The connections in the baby's brain don't get made properly when alcohol is present. Of course, in the early months, many women don't even know they're pregnant.
It's important for women who are thinking about becoming pregnant to adopt healthy behaviors before they get pregnant.
Women who abstain from alcohol in early pregnancy may feel comfortable drinking in the final months. But some of the most complex developmental stages in the brain occur in the second and third trimesters, a time when the nervous system can be greatly affected by alcohol. Even moderate alcohol intake, and especially periodic binge drinking, can seriously damage a developing nervous system.
Prevention Is the KeyFAS can be completely prevented by not drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.
Reviewed by: Louis E. Bartoshesky, MD, MPH
Date reviewed: November 2011
Originally reviewed by: Linda Nicholson, MS, MC
Alcohol (wine, beer, or liquor) is the leading known preventable cause of developmental and physical birth defects in the United States.
When a woman drinks alcohol during pregnancy, she risks giving birth to a child who will pay the price — in mental and physical deficiencies — for his or her entire life.
Yet many pregnant women do drink alcohol. It's estimated that each year in the United States, 1 in every 750 infants is born with a pattern of physical, developmental, and functional problems referred to as fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS), while another 40,000 are born with fetal alcohol effects (FAE).
Signs and Symptoms
If you adopted a child or consumed alcohol during pregnancy and are concerned that your child may have FAS, watch for characteristics of the syndrome, which include:
•low birth weight
•small head circumference
•failure to thrive
•developmental delay
•organ dysfunction
•facial abnormalities, including smaller eye openings, flattened cheekbones, and indistinct philtrum (an underdeveloped groove between the nose and the upper lip)
•epilepsy
•poor coordination/fine motor skills
•poor socialization skills, such as difficulty building and maintaining friendships and relating to groups
•lack of imagination or curiosity
•learning difficulties, including poor memory, inability to understand concepts such as time and money, poor language comprehension, poor problem-solving skills
•behavioral problems, including hyperactivity, inability to concentrate, social withdrawal, stubbornness, impulsiveness, and anxiety
Children with FAE display the same symptoms, but to a lesser degree.
Continue
ListenDiagnosis and Long-Term EffectsProblems associated with FAS tend to intensify as children move into adulthood. These can include developmental health problems, troubles with the law, and the inability to live independently.
Kids with FAE are frequently undiagnosed. This also applies to those with alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder (ARND), a recently recognized category of prenatal damage that refers to children who exhibit only the behavioral and emotional problems of FAS/FAE without any signs of developmental delay or physical growth deficiencies.
Often, in kids with FAE or ARND, the behavior can appear as mere belligerence or stubbornness. They may score well on intelligence tests, but their behavioral deficits often interfere with their ability to succeed. Extensive education and training for the parents, health care professionals, and teachers who care for these kids are essential.
How Much Alcohol Is Too Much?It's clear that abusing alcohol during pregnancy is dangerous, but what about the occasional drink? How much alcohol constitutes too much during pregnancy?
No evidence exists that can determine exactly how much alcohol ingestion will produce birth defects. Individual women process alcohol differently. Other factors vary the results, too, such as the age of the mother, the timing and regularity of the alcohol ingestion, and whether the mother has eaten any food while drinking.
Although full-blown FAS is the result of chronic alcohol use during pregnancy, FAE and ARND may occur with only occasional or binge drinking.
Because alcohol easily passes the placental barrier and the fetus is less equipped to eliminate alcohol than its mother, the fetus tends to receive a high concentration of alcohol, which lingers longer than it would in the mother's system.
Mothers who drink during the first trimester of pregnancy have kids with the most severe problems because that is when the brain is developing. The connections in the baby's brain don't get made properly when alcohol is present. Of course, in the early months, many women don't even know they're pregnant.
It's important for women who are thinking about becoming pregnant to adopt healthy behaviors before they get pregnant.
Women who abstain from alcohol in early pregnancy may feel comfortable drinking in the final months. But some of the most complex developmental stages in the brain occur in the second and third trimesters, a time when the nervous system can be greatly affected by alcohol. Even moderate alcohol intake, and especially periodic binge drinking, can seriously damage a developing nervous system.
Prevention Is the KeyFAS can be completely prevented by not drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.
Reviewed by: Louis E. Bartoshesky, MD, MPH
Date reviewed: November 2011
Originally reviewed by: Linda Nicholson, MS, MC
You're quite right that FAS is a very serious condition.
However, I think we need to ask whether or not conditional release is the appropriate remedy in cases where there's been violence. Jail may not be indicated, but some kind of in-patient situation, with intensive treatment, seems called for in my opinion.
Oh, then it's okay to viciously assault people.
FAS may cause him to act impulsively and not appreciate consequences, but he has apparently never tried to mitigate his violent behaviour or try to find ways to control his impulses. At what point does he take some responsibility for his behaviour and not have them wiped away because he is an Aboriginal and may have FAS?
FAS may cause him to act impulsively and not appreciate consequences, but he has apparently never tried to mitigate his violent behaviour or try to find ways to control his impulses. At what point does he take some responsibility for his behaviour and not have them wiped away because he is an Aboriginal and may have FAS?
Frankly I don't give a fuck if he is native or has FAS.
To have the courts reduce a sentence of assaulting another person for those reasons is bullshit.
What about the rights of the person assaulted.
The kid has just learned that he can do anything to anybody and get away with a slap on the wrist because he has FAS as a get out of jail card.
This is the reason our criminal system is a total joke.
I don't think there should be any defence based on mental illness of any kind including FAS.
If you are unable to determine the consequences of right or wrong then you should never have been allowed to walk among the public in general.
To all those soft liberals that believe FAS should be a get out of free card YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM ALSO.
Put the bastard in jail period.
Savagely assaulting someone, being FAS and Native does not equate to being able to stay at home playing X Box for the next 18 months. This punishment is bullshit and everyone knows it. In fact it is not a punishment at all but more of a home based detention. I do not care if the kid was dealt a tough hand as a baby and had a rough upbringing. He has committed a significant crime and no amount of pity or coddling will make him a good citizen, ever.
What disappoints me is people are focusing on the guilty party not the bus driver who was assaulted and required three operations so far. He had a head trauma and will most likely have some sort of PSD as a result of this assault. Moving forward he will likely have severe medical problems which could include ongoing headaches, concussion syndrome and depression. This is a guy who just went to work one day to do his job and now the person who assaulted him is virtually walking away unpunished.
Once again the judiciary has let the public down and there will be more assaults of this nature on bus drivers with impunity. Sooner or later there will be an incident with a driver being assaulted while the bus is in motion and the rest of the passengers will be put in danger leading to a death.
One has to ask why Transit has not installed some sort of plexiglass protection for the drivers or mandated Transit Police accompany every bus not just Sky Train.
What disappoints me is people are focusing on the guilty party not the bus driver who was assaulted and required three operations so far. He had a head trauma and will most likely have some sort of PSD as a result of this assault. Moving forward he will likely have severe medical problems which could include ongoing headaches, concussion syndrome and depression. This is a guy who just went to work one day to do his job and now the person who assaulted him is virtually walking away unpunished.
Once again the judiciary has let the public down and there will be more assaults of this nature on bus drivers with impunity. Sooner or later there will be an incident with a driver being assaulted while the bus is in motion and the rest of the passengers will be put in danger leading to a death.
One has to ask why Transit has not installed some sort of plexiglass protection for the drivers or mandated Transit Police accompany every bus not just Sky Train.
Here's a couple of excerpts from the Vancouver Sun article that tokugawa linked to at the top of this thread:
The judge pointed out she considered sending Louie to jail for up to a year but decided to impose the maximum 18-month conditional sentence for the crime, with strict conditions, followed by two years of probation.
"Bus drivers are at the mercy of whomever gets on their bus," the judge said of the violent attack.
The judge said she took into account that Louie has aboriginal ancestry and that he earlier offered an apology to Dixon.
The Supreme Court of Canada issued a ruling last month, reminding judges they must consider alternatives to jail for aboriginal offenders, if possible, because first nations people are over represented in Canada's prisons.
...
The judge ordered Louie to abstain from drugs and alcohol during his sentence of house arrest.
Louie must return to court in four months for a review of his sentence and he cannot ride a bus unless he is sober and has a transit ticket, the judge ruled.
He is also banned from possessing any weapons for 10 years and is to have no contact with Dixon..
...
Crown counsel Louise Gauld had asked the court for a jail sentence between nine and 12 months.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Yo...nal+sentence/6404219/story.html#ixzz1r1bXT9qV
We probably should have a lawyer here to explain all this, but I guess the judge felt constrained by a recent Supreme Court ruling. In other instances where both FAS and Aboriginal origins have been a factor, such as Darnell Pratt's killing of Grant De Patie, judges have reduced sentences because of those factors.
My personal view is that when the crime is large enough, certainly one resulting in death, and probably any offence resulting in significant injuries such as the bus driver in this case experienced, these other factors ought to be of little influence in sentencing. I would think they should be considered in other matters, such as B&Es or passing bad cheques or what have you. But when there is subsantial violence and injury I don't feel it's very relevant to take ancestry or other conditions like FAS into the mix. What may be needed for FAS cases is some kind of non-jail institutionalization, but we got rid of all that when we close down Riverview. The thinking was that the people who used to be held there would be taken care of in small group homes, but that doesn't seem to be working.
The Crown Counsel was undoubtedly as aware as the judge and defence of the Supreme Court ruling and still thought it was in play to ask for a year in jail. For whatever reason the judge didn't buy that. The offender is under restrictions, had to report back in a few months and will be on probation for a further two years, etc.
Still, I think some kind of custodial sentence is needed for violent people who are a danger, and this kind of result shows the need for more institutional types than just jail or house arrest.
The judge pointed out she considered sending Louie to jail for up to a year but decided to impose the maximum 18-month conditional sentence for the crime, with strict conditions, followed by two years of probation.
"Bus drivers are at the mercy of whomever gets on their bus," the judge said of the violent attack.
The judge said she took into account that Louie has aboriginal ancestry and that he earlier offered an apology to Dixon.
The Supreme Court of Canada issued a ruling last month, reminding judges they must consider alternatives to jail for aboriginal offenders, if possible, because first nations people are over represented in Canada's prisons.
...
The judge ordered Louie to abstain from drugs and alcohol during his sentence of house arrest.
Louie must return to court in four months for a review of his sentence and he cannot ride a bus unless he is sober and has a transit ticket, the judge ruled.
He is also banned from possessing any weapons for 10 years and is to have no contact with Dixon..
...
Crown counsel Louise Gauld had asked the court for a jail sentence between nine and 12 months.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Yo...nal+sentence/6404219/story.html#ixzz1r1bXT9qV
We probably should have a lawyer here to explain all this, but I guess the judge felt constrained by a recent Supreme Court ruling. In other instances where both FAS and Aboriginal origins have been a factor, such as Darnell Pratt's killing of Grant De Patie, judges have reduced sentences because of those factors.
My personal view is that when the crime is large enough, certainly one resulting in death, and probably any offence resulting in significant injuries such as the bus driver in this case experienced, these other factors ought to be of little influence in sentencing. I would think they should be considered in other matters, such as B&Es or passing bad cheques or what have you. But when there is subsantial violence and injury I don't feel it's very relevant to take ancestry or other conditions like FAS into the mix. What may be needed for FAS cases is some kind of non-jail institutionalization, but we got rid of all that when we close down Riverview. The thinking was that the people who used to be held there would be taken care of in small group homes, but that doesn't seem to be working.
The Crown Counsel was undoubtedly as aware as the judge and defence of the Supreme Court ruling and still thought it was in play to ask for a year in jail. For whatever reason the judge didn't buy that. The offender is under restrictions, had to report back in a few months and will be on probation for a further two years, etc.
Still, I think some kind of custodial sentence is needed for violent people who are a danger, and this kind of result shows the need for more institutional types than just jail or house arrest.
So the judge felt constrained by a recent Supreme Court ruling??
Why don't they grow some balls and impose an adequate sentence anyways.
Maybe this will set a new precedent.
Perhaps it's time for the government to overrule the Supreme Courts and impose minimum sentences and use the "not withstanding clause" to overrule the obviously gutless justices of the Supreme Court.
Hopefully as the general public gets more and more disillusioned by the gutless judges we will elect enough MP to Parliament who will have the balls to make the Supreme Court irrelevant.
Why don't they grow some balls and impose an adequate sentence anyways.
Maybe this will set a new precedent.
Perhaps it's time for the government to overrule the Supreme Courts and impose minimum sentences and use the "not withstanding clause" to overrule the obviously gutless justices of the Supreme Court.
Hopefully as the general public gets more and more disillusioned by the gutless judges we will elect enough MP to Parliament who will have the balls to make the Supreme Court irrelevant.
There are no beds for this sort of individual in any GVRD Hospital. Daily, Neuro and Psych teams are being pressured to find out who they can send home that day. Anyone deemed ready to go is sent home that day.
There are not enough spaces in Group Homes either. If they are violent while in a Group Home they are sent packing that day. They usually end up in Emerg looking for a psych bed that same day.
Closing Riverview was the wrong way to go but we are already going down that path now. Each health region will have its own mini Riverview but they are not up and running fully yet. Combined all the health regions will not have the same number of beds as Riverview did in the past.
There are not enough spaces in Group Homes either. If they are violent while in a Group Home they are sent packing that day. They usually end up in Emerg looking for a psych bed that same day.
Closing Riverview was the wrong way to go but we are already going down that path now. Each health region will have its own mini Riverview but they are not up and running fully yet. Combined all the health regions will not have the same number of beds as Riverview did in the past.
Here's a story in the Province that isn't related to the assault on Charles Dixon, but which does have to do with how Aboriginals fare in the overall justice system:
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=6406521
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=6406521
i kind of think excuses are crap
my father was a raging alcholic, who basically terrozied the family.
and i have never done anything wrong in my entire life, excpet well maybe pay escorts.
and i guess the question is pointless whether you think fas or some such thing is an excuse or not
you need to protect society
it doesn't at al matter whether fetal alchol syndrom was a factor or not you can't give people the right or excuse to go around beating the shit out of some one
you lock them up
and maybe at some point apply to have them labeled a dangerous offender
my father was a raging alcholic, who basically terrozied the family.
and i have never done anything wrong in my entire life, excpet well maybe pay escorts.
and i guess the question is pointless whether you think fas or some such thing is an excuse or not
you need to protect society
it doesn't at al matter whether fetal alchol syndrom was a factor or not you can't give people the right or excuse to go around beating the shit out of some one
you lock them up
and maybe at some point apply to have them labeled a dangerous offender
It is also a widely used excuse for anti-social behaviour.
FYI, I doubt that they did any controlled experiments to prove that it actually exists, that would not be ethical. People who are abuse alcohol are generally unstable in one way or another, and guess what, they generally have unstable kids. It all goes back to Eugenics and the humanist opposition to the idea that we inherit elements of our selves from our parents. They believe that all wrongs are from the environment and discount the possibility that maybe its the parents, that you can "cure" the negative elements of personality by nurture. Well guess what, neurochemistry is inherited and if your parents have fucked up neurochemistry chances are so will you. The question is, if that is the hand that is dealt to you, what are you going to do about it? Nothing, and just drift from one incident to another? Or be proactive and control yourself. Allmost everyone who has these issues chooses the former path, and that is the problem. This fetal alcohol syndrome is just one of the ways society makes excuses for these people, as if they don't have a choice. Well they do.
Reading your posts however, it does seem that you have issues of your own. That doesn't mean that you need to express them in violence as your father did, but you still have your fathers underlieing nature, it is part of you. The difference between you and your father is that you control it whereas he did not.
It is highly likely that this guy will hurt someone else again. The lesson he learned is that the consequences for extreme antisocial behaviour are, in his case, minimal. That will probably not turn out to be the case next time he does it, but someone is going to have to be hurt first. IMO it is matter of time before his conditions are violated, and he will probably get more free passes until someone is seriously injured.
This man needs treatment. It may help him. Putting him in jail for a year will not get him treatment. It will likely make any issues worse. What happens when he serves his time and comes out? Is there any chance he will be rehabililtated? I seriously doubt it.
Throwing people lile this into jail is not beneficial as a deterrent if they have anger management issues or don't understand consequences due to poor brain development.
In my opinion, the onus falls on translink/BC Govt (someone please explain the diff to me LOL) to protect the bus drivers. Whether you believe in FAS or not, there are plently of mentally ill people wandering the streets and riding buses.
In London, England the bus drivers are in a glass cage where nobody can touch them. It's a little like those movie ticket booths where you slide any reqd money into a tray or it is placed directly into a machine and change pops out.
Throwing people lile this into jail is not beneficial as a deterrent if they have anger management issues or don't understand consequences due to poor brain development.
In my opinion, the onus falls on translink/BC Govt (someone please explain the diff to me LOL) to protect the bus drivers. Whether you believe in FAS or not, there are plently of mentally ill people wandering the streets and riding buses.
In London, England the bus drivers are in a glass cage where nobody can touch them. It's a little like those movie ticket booths where you slide any reqd money into a tray or it is placed directly into a machine and change pops out.
in today's Province they mention while on parole,this puss-pimple "spat at a paramedic and
police officer" and in 2009 "was convicted of assault after spitting in the face of a female
bus driver."
and this piece of s..t goes free?
"justice" is a joke&will continue to be as long as judges are not held accountable.
if they were elected we might see justice.
as for the Supreme Court on natives being "overrepresented" in prisons,well,duh,they're
in prison because they commited crimes.
police officer" and in 2009 "was convicted of assault after spitting in the face of a female
bus driver."
and this piece of s..t goes free?
"justice" is a joke&will continue to be as long as judges are not held accountable.
if they were elected we might see justice.
as for the Supreme Court on natives being "overrepresented" in prisons,well,duh,they're
in prison because they commited crimes.
Maybe he'll act like Darnell D'Arcy Pratt and violate conditions almost right away. But if he does, the conditional sentence to a treatment centre will be gone, and he WILL be off to jail.
