WTF is up with the abusive use of pepper spray on non-violent protesters??
- Thread starter Miss*Bijou
- Start date
Reminiscent of the Soviets, South Africans et al using water cannons back in the day.
Still, gotta agree with uncleg, it could have been worse.
Still, gotta agree with uncleg, it could have been worse.
It could of been worse, thankfully it wasn't, but the main point here is the principle behind what the police did. We have the right to peacefully protest. Any breach of that is a major problem, and we can't let it go simply because the worst possible scenario didn't happen. If we start doing that, we will have ourselves to blame for having no rights left.
Yeah it would've been easy enough for a line of officers to move in and arrest them without the pepperspray. Until they start resisting arrest or fighting it is going too far.
Screw probation, horseraped sounds much better. From people (cops) who want to complain about being in the line of fire and having dangerous jobs they should definitly know better then to use unecessary force. There is no excuse for blatantly abusing authority, and many times there isn't a punishment severe enough for it.
Wow. Jack-booted armoured thugs brutalizing what seem to be pretty brave young people. They should know better in the age of digital devices.
If the powers that be wish to put an end to inconvenient protests, having the web plastered with images like this is not going to help.
Still, nothing is going to change until there are massive riots in the streets, and that is not going to happen until enough people are actually hungry. Wait a few more years...
If the powers that be wish to put an end to inconvenient protests, having the web plastered with images like this is not going to help.
Still, nothing is going to change until there are massive riots in the streets, and that is not going to happen until enough people are actually hungry. Wait a few more years...
Apathy, pure & simple. Barely half the adult population even bothers to vote, so what do you expect? First thing i did this morning when i woke up was make a pot of coffee & go vote in the municiple election.
I agree about apathy but not sure low voting turnout is automatically a result or indication of apathy. I'm sure in some cases it probably does but some people are just a bit disillusioned and don't really think the options are really all that different (better or worse) from each other. They're all shitty, it's just a decision on what kind of shitty you think is going to let you down a little less than the other brand(s) of shitty.
It's that realization and not apathy that's responsible. In fact, I think that you would probably find just as much apathy and perhaps also denial in a lot of the voters. People who think getting out to vote is all it takes and then go back to being numb and desensitized to what's going on around them.
Apathy and complacency are definitely major causes - but IMO voting doesn't mean anything either way.
The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.
- Charles Bukowski
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“If you can’t or won’t give that threshold, why not?”
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Bonus:
If Star Wars was made by environmentalists..
Just go back a few years....or travel to other areas in the world...and see how police would deal with human chains that they are ordered to break up.
It just goes to show how impossible it is for police to do their jobs in today's world. Follow your training..be damned...don't...be damned. In this case....I see police vastly outnumbered by a large noisy crowd....The protestors have undoubtedly been told several times that they must unlink their arms and stop blocking the area or they will be pepper sprayed. The protestors are using physical action to resist arrest (ie: The act of linking arms is a physical act designed to resist arrest as it makes it very difficult to handcuff someone when they have linked arms in a human chain).
I suppose a lot believe that it would be much better to try to physically pull this group of people apart.....that is not the case. Grabbing and trying to muscle them apart would undoubtedly end in a large physical fight with numerous officers and protestors hurt....It would also expose officers to an unnecessary struggle that could end up in a protestor grabbing an officer's gun.
Who knows what the specific training is for officers in that jurisdiction for dealing with a situation like that. Did they already try other pain compliance techniques like twisting earlobes or putting upward pressures on the bases of noses in order to get them to relax their arms?.....Obviously verbal commands were ignored.
This is not a taser we are talking about...this is pepper spray. It is a temporary but very painful burn, but it does not cause any lasting damage. What it does do, is cause enough pain distraction to allow officers a reasonable chance to separate protestors with less chance of injury to them and the police.
Oh....and those poor protestors with the police putting their knees over their necks....just youtube police handcuffing procedures and see how this is the training in place. I suppose it would be better to allow someone who is resisting a lawful arrest to opt not to be handcuffed. Put yourself in the boots of those officers...and try to figure out how you would do it surrounded by a large and vocal crowd....knowing that things can go terribly wrong very quickly.
There are bad and violent police officers. There are police officers that do not deserve the badge they hold. There are bad and violent people too...and many are protestors. It's easy for us to sit back with the luxury of time and reflection to armchair quarterback what the police did.
There was a situation in Kelowna, where an RCMP officer kicked a man in the face as he was going voluntarily to the ground as per police orders. That was a definite criminal assault on that man by a Police officer. This.....I don't believe is anywhere near so black and white as many of the previous posters have suggested.
So many of us don't realize how good we have it here in this neck of the woods (The Western World) where there are strong limits to police powers of arrest....which is a very good thing...it allows us to view videos like this and debate.
HankQuinlan, I hope you are not suggesting that rioting in the streets is a solution. It is when the police are powerless to do anything, or lose control, that riots start. The Vancouver Stanley Cup Riot(s) were not a good thing I'll hope you agree.
....I just hope people try to have an open mind and not automatically assume the police are wrong when none of us have the full facts or back-story.
It just goes to show how impossible it is for police to do their jobs in today's world. Follow your training..be damned...don't...be damned. In this case....I see police vastly outnumbered by a large noisy crowd....The protestors have undoubtedly been told several times that they must unlink their arms and stop blocking the area or they will be pepper sprayed. The protestors are using physical action to resist arrest (ie: The act of linking arms is a physical act designed to resist arrest as it makes it very difficult to handcuff someone when they have linked arms in a human chain).
I suppose a lot believe that it would be much better to try to physically pull this group of people apart.....that is not the case. Grabbing and trying to muscle them apart would undoubtedly end in a large physical fight with numerous officers and protestors hurt....It would also expose officers to an unnecessary struggle that could end up in a protestor grabbing an officer's gun.
Who knows what the specific training is for officers in that jurisdiction for dealing with a situation like that. Did they already try other pain compliance techniques like twisting earlobes or putting upward pressures on the bases of noses in order to get them to relax their arms?.....Obviously verbal commands were ignored.
This is not a taser we are talking about...this is pepper spray. It is a temporary but very painful burn, but it does not cause any lasting damage. What it does do, is cause enough pain distraction to allow officers a reasonable chance to separate protestors with less chance of injury to them and the police.
Oh....and those poor protestors with the police putting their knees over their necks....just youtube police handcuffing procedures and see how this is the training in place. I suppose it would be better to allow someone who is resisting a lawful arrest to opt not to be handcuffed. Put yourself in the boots of those officers...and try to figure out how you would do it surrounded by a large and vocal crowd....knowing that things can go terribly wrong very quickly.
There are bad and violent police officers. There are police officers that do not deserve the badge they hold. There are bad and violent people too...and many are protestors. It's easy for us to sit back with the luxury of time and reflection to armchair quarterback what the police did.
There was a situation in Kelowna, where an RCMP officer kicked a man in the face as he was going voluntarily to the ground as per police orders. That was a definite criminal assault on that man by a Police officer. This.....I don't believe is anywhere near so black and white as many of the previous posters have suggested.
So many of us don't realize how good we have it here in this neck of the woods (The Western World) where there are strong limits to police powers of arrest....which is a very good thing...it allows us to view videos like this and debate.
HankQuinlan, I hope you are not suggesting that rioting in the streets is a solution. It is when the police are powerless to do anything, or lose control, that riots start. The Vancouver Stanley Cup Riot(s) were not a good thing I'll hope you agree.
....I just hope people try to have an open mind and not automatically assume the police are wrong when none of us have the full facts or back-story.
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The police absolutely did the right thing. If a cop repeatedly warns me that I will be pepper sprayed if I don't move should I
A: move?
B: get pepper sprayed?
These protesters are lucky that they live in extremely lenient and tolerant countries like Canada and the USA. Idiots blatantly breaking the law, yet they expect the police to do nothing. That must be how it works in the Liberal utopia fantasy land.
A: move?
B: get pepper sprayed?
These protesters are lucky that they live in extremely lenient and tolerant countries like Canada and the USA. Idiots blatantly breaking the law, yet they expect the police to do nothing. That must be how it works in the Liberal utopia fantasy land.
Devo....at least someone else seems to appreciate logic here.
And linking arms in contravention of a lawful police order, is no longer a peaceful protest. It ensures that the police will have no choice but to use physical force of some sort if verbal commands fail.
If a police officer tells me to put my hands behind my back...I will. Anything else will ensure a struggle and I'm the victim of my own stupidity. These are not brave, young students....they are people who arrogantly escalated what could have been a peaceful protest into one of resistance and struggle. They could have followed the orders peacefully, and protested elsewhere or later....but they chose the violent route by their physical actions (linking arms and struggling to resist arrest).
And linking arms in contravention of a lawful police order, is no longer a peaceful protest. It ensures that the police will have no choice but to use physical force of some sort if verbal commands fail.
If a police officer tells me to put my hands behind my back...I will. Anything else will ensure a struggle and I'm the victim of my own stupidity. These are not brave, young students....they are people who arrogantly escalated what could have been a peaceful protest into one of resistance and struggle. They could have followed the orders peacefully, and protested elsewhere or later....but they chose the violent route by their physical actions (linking arms and struggling to resist arrest).
If you watch the whole clip, you see other police officers beginning to act "human" in various ways -- taking off their riot helmets, being restrained rather than unbridled in use of force, a few of them even looking abashed or frightened as they walk off.
That cop went too far and even his colleagues know it.
That cop went too far and even his colleagues know it.
A well thought out and very logical argument you present Trus'Me. Yes....the cops there are loving it.... They are not human, they have no fear, and they face "Zero danger" despite being in the midst of a large and agitated crowd. They just want to be bullies.NOT
Any laws broken can be dealt with later in court....peacefully....including any police orders that the protestors believe unlawful...there is no need for the protestors to resist police commands and force a physical altercation.
Youre right Blackcad... That was a rant... I erased it before I thought it would be read. But you've quoted it, and thats fine.
But for Christs sake, theyre children blocking a bike path on a school campus. It just baffles me that this is where precious police enforcement goes.
But for Christs sake, theyre children blocking a bike path on a school campus. It just baffles me that this is where precious police enforcement goes.
Voting is just one example of apathy,I find that the younger generation has this sense of entitlement,it's me me me me.My buddies kid asked him to help him out in buying his 1st house.His dad said we'll talk,as soon as he said that,the kid goes out & buys a brand new speed boat?It just seems like nobody gives a shit any more.Look at those idiots that pepper sprayed & knifed that guy at the bus stop,Why? cus he asked them to pick up there garbage. Everything just seems to be getting really polarized.
I think it would help if the police didn't 'police' themselves. We seem to forget that not that long ago cops ruled with an iron fist, if you lipped them off you'd get the crap kicked outta you. There's just more cameras out there to catch them in the act now.
I think it would help if the police didn't 'police' themselves. We seem to forget that not that long ago cops ruled with an iron fist, if you lipped them off you'd get the crap kicked outta you. There's just more cameras out there to catch them in the act now.
Was this particular incident even a "peaceful protest" or interfering with a police officer in the performance of his duties ? A tent "city" had been set up on the Quad. It was ordered removed, it wasn't, the cops went in to remove it and arrested those involved. This bunch that got pepper sprayed were attempting to prevent the police from taking away people already in custody...............
Also, there are 32,000 students on this campus, doesn't seem like there are a significant percentage involved in this incident. I'd bet a lot of students were negatively affected by this demonstration. Should the minority have the unfettered right to do that, after all look at the crap in downtown Vancouver. Just sayin'.
Also, there are 32,000 students on this campus, doesn't seem like there are a significant percentage involved in this incident. I'd bet a lot of students were negatively affected by this demonstration. Should the minority have the unfettered right to do that, after all look at the crap in downtown Vancouver. Just sayin'.
