Would you fly a 737 Max 8 tomorrow?

[clu]

With the 737 Max 8's reputation in question and the experts and world seemingly split on whether there's a common flaw, what would you do if you were to go on a 737 Max 8 tomorrow?

A little background for those that haven't been following:

The Indonesian Lion Air crash last fall involved a new automatic system added to the Max 8 line (only rolled out 2 years ago, only 350 in operation) that automatically triggers and noses the plane down when it thinks it's stalling. This was implemented quietly to counter the Max 8's tendency to nose up slowly because the engines were repositioned and resized to improve fuel efficiency. The Lion Air crew were not familiar with this system nor how to override it. Boeing subsequently issued a bulletin to inform pilots what to do.

Now this new Ethiopian crash (an airline with an impeccable safety record) has some disturbingly similar characteristics to the Lion Air crash. (Same model airplane, similar amount of time in service, occurring at a similar time during takeoff, an erratic flight pattern prior to a powered nosedive, and a crew that requested an emergency return to their departing airport prior to the crash.) However some call this notion premature, superficial, reactionary, and/or emotional as none of the data on this crash has been analysed yet. Ethiopia, Indonesia, and China have grounded all 737 Max 8s pending investigation. Canada and the US have not.

There are over 40 in service in Canada alone. They are all under two years old and not to be confused with the traditional, long-standing and reliable 737 workhorses.

 

[Sifupoon]

would I fly a 737 Max8 tomorrow. Doubtful, as I have not received any pilot training as of yet.

 

[justwannahavefun]

This is like saying, "would you drive a Toyota?" after all the self accelerating issues they had. The same could be said for Ford or a lot of other manufacturers. One thing is for sure. After the investigation, this will probably be the safest plane out there.

 

[onslaught13]

no matter the type of vehicle you get into, the danger is everywhere, even walking as you never know what could happen. Can't live life worrying about what could happen though. Otherwise we would never leave our homes

 

[Andrew69913]

The roll out of the 787 had some issues with LiPo batteries exploding as well. It was just fortunate it didn't happen during flight....especially during take off or shortly after. It is now a favorite in its market and a beautiful aircraft to fly on. Perhaps pilots should be better trained and informed in regards to a system that automatically changes flight profiles...that's pretty serious stuff. I can tell you all these discussions happen DAILY in the aerospace industry and everybody I have ever known is doing their best to make sure this kind of stuff doesn't happen. So yes...I would get on a 737 MAX with no issues at all. Especially now that the awareness of this system is out there...and I guarantee any pilot who will be flying an aircraft with this new anti-stall safety system is learning it inside and out as we speak. Lets not forget....most of the bans and bad publicity are from Europe and the UK who have a little company called Airbus they need to promote.

 

[Cock Throppled]

I'd have no hesitation flying in North america.

Might have second thoughts overseas depending on the country, but it still wouldn't stop me.

Safest time to fly is usually after a big accident.

 

[Deguire]

Not me. I won't fly the thing until they fix it. U.K. banned it from their airspace and even turned back aircraft already in flight. That was bloody ridiculous. Boeing has a major problem. Two brand new aircraft crash shortly after take-off. That simply doesn't happen these days. Grounding them will cost billions but I think Canada and the U.S. will do so shortly.

 

[westwoody]

Some say there is a known issue with the MCAS software assisting the pilots (very detailed technical explanation) and Boeing was working on a fix, but at a leisurely pace. The MAX is all about saving money by squeezing a fifty year old design.
Boeing simply waited too long and another accident happened.
The fix was to be installed at major depot servicing, but will now be done asap.

This is not about poor maintenance or third world pilots.
The fault is with the plane itself, and no I would not fly in one.

 

[clu]

The roll out of the 787 had some issues with LiPo batteries exploding as well. It was just fortunate it didn't happen during flight....especially during take off or shortly after. It is now a favorite in its market and a beautiful aircraft to fly on. Perhaps pilots should be better trained and informed in regards to a system that automatically changes flight profiles...that's pretty serious stuff. I can tell you all these discussions happen DAILY in the aerospace industry and everybody I have ever known is doing their best to make sure this kind of stuff doesn't happen. So yes...I would get on a 737 MAX with no issues at all. Especially now that the awareness of this system is out there...and I guarantee any pilot who will be flying an aircraft with this new anti-stall safety system is learning it inside and out as we speak. Lets not forget....most of the bans and bad publicity are from Europe and the UK who have a little company called Airbus they need to promote.

The Ethiopian Airlines CEO says the pilots were already trained in the procedure for false positive triggers of the MCAS system following the Lion Air crash. They were prepared and it still happened.

 

[BobbyMcgee]

FLY ALASKA
100’s 737
ZERO MAX8

 

[Ray]

I wouldn't have a clue if the plane I'm getting on is a 737MAX8. I can't tell the difference from a regular 737.

 

[Andrew69913]

Well he said the pilots were aware of the safety bulletin issued involving the MCAS. This doesn't necessarily mean the pilots were completely familiar with how to circumvent or override the system, which it doesn't appear they were. Seems like a little complacency on everybody's part to me. If they were prepared they would have over-ridden the system as they certainly had the time to do so.

 

[jgg]

The MCAS system is an automated system to help the Max avoid stalling (not an engine failure but when the wing loses lift and "quits" flying). Without any input from the pilots, the MCAS is automatically activated when the aircraft is approaching a stall situation, a nose high attitude that is too steep; if the angle of bank is to high (to steep a turn); auto pilot is off; flaps are in the retracted position. To prevent the stall the MCAS pushes the nose down to allow the wings to gain speed, regain lift and fly again. The MCAS can not be deactivated by yoke input from the pilots, only by operation of the elevator trim. The elevator is the smaller wing at the rear of the aircraft. It controls the pitch of the aircraft; push the yoke forward, the nose goes down; pull the yoke back the nose comes up. To fine tune the elevator position, trim is used.

This is what I think may be happening. The aircraft nears a stall attitude. MCAS senses this and pushes the nose down. Too much. That may be the software glitch. Normal reaction for too much nose down is to reduce power and pull the nose up, with the yolk. This doesn't work because the MCAS is only deactivated by input from the trim and not by input from the yolk. You don't use trim to pull out of a too steep nose down attitude. Software glitch, MCAS does not recognize any trim input from the pilots. No trim input, no MCAS deactivation. Nose down until impact.

TL;DR software problem. Would I fly in a Max? I don't know.

 

[Amerix]

I have to think most pilots are now aware of the stall system problems. I am flying next week so fingers crossed.

 

[jgg]

I have to think most pilots are now aware of the stall system problems...

This is most likely true. It may be an erratic system under certain parameters that won’t allow an override.

 

[deathreborn]

The MCAS system is an automated system to help the Max avoid stalling (not an engine failure but when the wing loses lift and "quits" flying). Without any input from the pilots, the MCAS is automatically activated when the aircraft is approaching a stall situation, a nose high attitude that is too steep; if the angle of bank is to high (to steep a turn); auto pilot is off; flaps are in the retracted position. To prevent the stall the MCAS pushes the nose down to allow the wings to gain speed, regain lift and fly again. The MCAS can not be deactivated by yoke input from the pilots, only by operation of the elevator trim. The elevator is the smaller wing at the rear of the aircraft. It controls the pitch of the aircraft; push the yoke forward, the nose goes down; pull the yoke back the nose comes up. To fine tune the elevator position, trim is used.

This is what I think may be happening. The aircraft nears a stall attitude. MCAS senses this and pushes the nose down. Too much. That may be the software glitch. Normal reaction for too much nose down is to reduce power and pull the nose up, with the yolk. This doesn't work because the MCAS is only deactivated by input from the trim and not by input from the yolk. You don't use trim to pull out of a too steep nose down attitude. Software glitch, MCAS does not recognize any trim input from the pilots. No trim input, no MCAS deactivation. Nose down until impact.

TL;DR software problem. Would I fly in a Max? I don't know.

boeing got too cute trying to make the max seem like a "new" airplane. it's basically a 737 next gen with new engines. but instead of staying with something that worked they added all these new computer features and obviously did not get all the bugs out. there is no mcas on the 737-700, 800 or 900. no problems with those aircraft. seems boeing wants to take the flying away from the pilots. don't even trust pilots to recognize a potential stall situation. one of the first things you learn when you fly your first cessna is about stalls and how to recover. but yet boeing thought pilots aren't capable of this anymore and stuck this new feature into the computer software and now it's trying to dive bomb planes into the ground. in the states there have been 5 reports to the FAA from MAX pilots citing where the plane decided to nose down after takeoff. luckily they knew how to counteract the system and prevented an incident.

airbus never played the "new" aircraft card. they are selling a320's and a321's with basically the same frame but with new engines and not messing with the systems that fly the plane. smart on their part. hence the name a320neo and a321neo. (new engine option).

 

[Sifupoon]

Its was explained in a bit more detail tonite that the new "max" has the engines out more forward from the wing
and they hang higher on the wing as well. This they were saying is causing trouble with the MCAS system cuz the new placement
of the engines is pushing the nose down on take off. Hence the comment made by DRB above.
I won't pretend to know anything about flight characteristics or aircraft design, I'm just going by what I remember was said
on a more indepth discussion of what looks like could be causing the mechanics of this problem.

No wonder I quit flying RC planes many years ago. To many expensive lawn darts like these max8's. lol

 

[clu]

Its was explained in a bit more detail tonite that the new "max" has the engines out more forward from the wing
and they hang higher on the wing as well. This they were saying is causing trouble with the MCAS system cuz the new placement
of the engines is pushing the nose down on take off. Hence the comment made by DRB above.
I won't pretend to know anything about flight characteristics or aircraft design, I'm just going by what I remember was said
on a more indepth discussion of what looks like could be causing the mechanics of this problem.

No wonder I quit flying RC planes many years ago. To many expensive lawn darts like these max8's. lol

Not quite. The repositioned and resized engines push the nose up slowly not down. The MCAS was added to compensate, forcing the nose down if it detected the angle of attack was too high. It gets false positives and forces the nose down for no reason. Seems like it's sometimes getting triggered by normal ascent after take off.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Well I guess we wont have to worry about it anymore. Canada has now officially grounded the Max 8s.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5051366/marc-garneau-canada-boeing-max-8-safety/

 

[Sporting]

Good back story here. Boeing sacrificing thoroughness and safety so as not to lose out to the competitor Airbus.

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/