Working for both

[sheena west]

I would like some input on the hypothedical situation of a longtime , well known Independant SP working for an agency as well as still Independant I know to some of you out there are probably thinking "big deal, what a lame thread" But to us ladies out there, it is an issue. Would any of you men ever call an agency and book with an SP that you have already seen as an Independant? Which would you prefer? or does it even matter? I know for all the agency owners out there you would not want to allow an SP to do both, because it leaves open opportunity for an SP to "steal" your clients. I quess it all comes down to trust. Gentleman will quite often ask while visiting a girl in an agency, if they could see them independently for the simple reason of more privacy. How ever, most agencies are less expensive than if the girl worked independant, and your also pretty much guarranteed that she will be on time, clean, pretty. and in shape due to the pre-screening before being hired. Where as with an Independant, your taking your chances on if she even has any teeth, and in most cases paying more money, but your getting tons more privacy and you don't have someone knocking at the door to remind you that your exact 1 hour or time is up. I dunno, talk to me.
xoxoxo Sheena West

 

[Cosmo]

However, most agencies are less expensive than if the girl worked independant

I don't get this?

You charged $200 to see a girl at an agency and her cut is... what... half that? So she makes $100.

She goes independent... and charges more???

If she charges only $150... she is still making 50% MORE per call than with an agency.

Guys will flock to her and thus... she has way more business, meaning she is even further ahead.

Why ruin that with charging a higher total price as an independant?

The only one who seemed to understand this was Brooklyn, who kept her rates low and, by all accounts, does very well because of it.

 

[sheena west]

I understand your line of thinking business wise Cosmo, but what you don't understand is by working as an Independant we take on all the overhead that an agency has, ourselves. We are now paying for the adervisting, rent and hydro, phone, driver in full ourselves.. We are now cleaning our own rooms, answering our own phone. It's more work and I think we are worth the extra few bucks. Also we are giving up our personal privacy every time a client comes to our home and leaving ourselves vulanareble to potentional situations. Everyone knows this isn't the safest work trade out there. But I think it all comes down to these small words....Good ain't cheap, and cheap ain't good
xoxox Sheena West

 

[rollerboy]

You charged $200 to see a girl at an agency and her cut is... what... half that? So she makes $100.

She goes independent... and charges more???

Dude, don't even try to understand hooker math.

Rational pricing is just a bridge too far. It's fascinating that agencies provide generally younger, fitter girls at a lower cost, when in some sense it seems like all that they add is overhead.

 

[Cinnamon Girl]

I'm also curious how the guys feel about this

I recently had an agency contact me & when I looked at their site, I recognized many pics of indies under different names. Doesn't matter to me.
But I won't work for an agency & be independent. It never has worked any time I try it. I want to take home 100% (their advertising etc cost is distributed between however many ladies they have, so IMO the cut they take is pretty good!& the turnover of young girls is constant) - as Sheena points out, overhead is extremely high for one independent - rent, travel, beauty, clothes, lingerie, cell phones- ouch!, advertising, web maintenance, computer/phone time, supplies, small gifts.....I laugh every time I see the wage debate - sure we make awesome money, but a good percentage evaporates into overhead(giving head!) this comes up practically every 3-4 weeks

Also the mindset of most established Indepenents is more money less clients. I don't know one chic who honestly wants to fornicate twice as much for the same income if she could charge slighly higher.......(burn out) Slow & steady wins the race.... yaddayaddayadda

good comment rollerboy LOL

 

[sheena west]

Gina Lee
Great point about "not having as many clients cause we don't want to burn out" So true. It's important to try and stay fresh and alive and try to treat each client like you haven't eaten in a week.

 

[maverick73]

We are now paying for the adervisting, rent and hydro, phone, driver in full ourselves.. We are now cleaning our own rooms, answering our own phone. It's more work and I think we are worth the extra few bucks. Also we are giving up our personal privacy every time a client comes to our home and leaving ourselves vulanareble to potentional situations.xoxox Sheena West

1. Advertising, yes.
2. Rent and Hydro, you are paying anyways if you're doing it out of your own home and not a separate incall location.
3. Cleaning your own room - well, it's a LITTLE more work, but it doesn't cost you anything but a little elbow grease. How much effort does it take to clean a room after each client? Really.
4. Driver - if it's an incall at your home, you don't need to be driven home. if it's a separate incall location, then yes, you need a driver.
5. Anwering your own phone - yes, I can see this being a LOT more work, and can be a problem for SP's that are students, have another career, or are otherwise just way too busy to be fielding a ton of calls, but on the other hand, it can't really be considered "overhead" unless she has a separate phone line for calls. If the line is a cell phone only, then it can get expensive if not on some sort of "unlimited" plan. I guess whether the phone category adds actual overhead or just time overhead "depends on the situation."

I think that if an SP is smart and organized, she could easily get by seeing 1 client per day, possibly even 5 clients per WEEK and take 2 days off.... and STILL make a killing and invest that money into something else. Her main expense is advertising and labour to field calls herself, but once she is established, she could reduce her advertising, be more selective of her clients (clean upscale gentlemen only), possibly even have enough regulars to not even have to advertise. I know that a few SP's on this board are already at that level, and congrats to them. They were smart!

 

[Mchatte]

I would think that working as an independant's greatest reward would be independance.

You can control your schedule (excellent if you have a child), you can control your price, you are in control of what you do, whom you see and how many sessions you will do in a week.

I think that if you're an indie and you're quite content financially to see 2 to 4 people a day, that should give you ample time for the admininstrative components of your business.

I went from working for a large national firm to going on my own and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

M

 

[shak]

Independant SP working for an agency as well as still Independant

I personally think its a brilliant idea, stay in the agency and get consistent calls/customers. Then for those returned customer/regulars, try to settle with them on the side(ie if the agency charges 300/hr and 100 goes to the agency, then you can see him for 250)In such case, he saves money and you earn a little more. In addition, you can be selective about who you do this with too. Pick guys that are respectul,fun,and generous. Eventually you can build up a pretty good customer base this way? I dont understand why Gina said it never worked for her, but then I dont work in this industry so its just my 2 cents.

I personally would not see a girl thru agency again if i have already seen her before. Even if price is the same, I want the girl to keep all the money instead of giving a portion of it to the agency(Since she is the one that is making me happy). I know its probably very difficult to run a good agency and their cut is sometimes justified. However; as a customer, I dont really care how the agency is operated. As the quality of the service, if I am a regular/returned customer and the girl gives me screwed up service, there is only one answer and that is she will lose me as a customer.

 

[Lurker 123]

I think that if an SP is smart and organized, she could easily get by seeing 1 client per day, possibly even 5 clients per WEEK and take 2 days off.... and STILL make a killing and invest that money into something else. Her main expense is advertising and labour to field calls herself, but once she is established, she could reduce her advertising, be more selective of her clients (clean upscale gentlemen only), possibly even have enough regulars to not even have to advertise. I know that a few SP's on this board are already at that level, and congrats to them. They were smart![/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------

That is very well say. Lately a new sp talked to me, she is working 7 days a week trying to get more clients. In addition she works for both agency and as an independent.

You can say is the word 'Greed". How long can she cope with it. Just to answer the phone calls from 12noon to 1:00 a.m. 7 days a week is a big headache.

When the agency calls her, she knows 50% gone. Subsequently she is unwillingly to work for the agency.So she receives poor rapport from her ageny clients.On the other hand since she is new to the business,the agency can organise her appointments and advertise for her orderly. So now she is split.

What I can say is all depended on how organise you are .Don't let "greed" takes over you!

 

[sheena west]

Yes Shak,
In a perfect world we could work as both independant and at an agency, but as far as an agency is concerned it's called "stealing" because how do they know that the client your seeing that day as an indie wasn't a customer that would have booked with them to see you? Now they are out a good piece of cash. But I think we are all getting a wee bit off subject. My original topic was Would you prefer an Indepenant SP or a girl at an agency Consciencely
would it bother you if she worked both and which phone line would you call first, or do you even care.

 

[Hardatwork]

Would any of you men ever call an agency and book with an SP that you have already seen as an Independant? Which would you prefer? or does it even matter?

My one word answer is... Depends. It depends on the SP and what level of service/ comfort level I have with them. For me it's about the service. If my first experiences with the independant SP were fantastic, I would go back to her even if she was with an agency. I would probably also go back if she raised her rates as an independant, although there is a breaking point.

Fundamentally, I like the idea of the lady getting all the money since she's the one doing the work. However, there are many reasons, such as the overhead and safety reasons you previously listed that make the decision to go with an agency smart for the SP, which I can respect. At the end of the day it comes down to two things...

1.) Your comfort level: What do you value more, the safety net of an agency or the independance of being an independant SP?

2.) Money: Once you factor in all costs associated to both an Agency and independant SP, which choice will provide you with the most take home money for the least amount of work (ie. burnout)?

I wouldn't worry too much about losing your regulars... sure some of them will leave, but they are your regulars for a reason, they like you and your service. Assuming your service doesn't change and there isn't much of a difference in price, why wouldn't they continue to see you?

Maybe there is a way to compromise... If I'm not mistaken, I believe Alexandria is an independant SP that sometimes works out of Supreme Spa in Edmonton. Why not send her a PM and ask her what her arrangements are and see if you can replicate them here?

 

[shak]

In a perfect world we could work as both independant and at an agency, but as far as an agency is concerned it's called "stealing" because how do they know that the client your seeing that day as an indie wasn't a customer that would have booked with them to see you? Now they are out a good piece of cash.

Yeah I know, it IS "stealing" and there is a whole set of moral question/greed behind it. But like I said, as a customer I dont really care how agencies are operated, I do this under the table; I save myself a few bucks and the lady earns a little more.

But I think we are all getting a wee bit off subject. My original topic was Would you prefer an Indepenant SP or a girl at an agency Consciencely would it bother you if she worked both and which phone line would you call first, or do you even care.

To get back to your original question, I would assume that the rates are the same(ie book thru agency or book as Indy). I personally dont plan ahead of time. I would make the call around noon for an evening session on the same day(its a short notice i know, but its kinda hard to predict when you will feel horny).Therefore; it will depend on which ever phone line the girl is working for on that particular day when I have the urge. It will only bother me if the rates and quality of the service are different. Those are my humble opinions and I hope they help.

 

[tom25]

How ever, most agencies are less expensive than if the girl worked independant, and your also pretty much guarranteed that she will be on time, clean, pretty. and in shape due to the pre-screening before being hired. Where as with an Independant, your taking your chances on if she even has any teeth

You must have way better agencies in B.C. than are here in Winnipeg. I'd say here its the reverse ... you never know what you get with an agency, they almost always are playing bait and switch, the service is inconsistent and usually not very good, there are more frequently extra costs that aren't talked about in advance, and the driver calls up way too early.

Good independents control how many clients they see, are in a way better situation to develop a regular clientele (rather than lots of customers, but few dependable regulars) and with a small investment in websites and advertising pooners know what they are getting. someone with no teeth show up when calling an independent.

Also, unless you're very honest and tell revenue canada what you're doing, then its also true that you actually see 100% of what you charge, rather than the 50% of my income I see once the tax man takes his share and all the other deductions come off. The overhead seems pretty small given the profit margin. If you do declare for income tax purposes then all the expenses are deductible

Tom

 

[gettinold]

Before I start, I know that maybe I am off topic a bit and its not meant as a stab towards any SP or anyone for that matter. I tend to agree with Mav; did a quick calc of seeing two clients/day, 5 days/week, 48 weeks/year at $200 per. Then factored in a 40% tax rate (assuming all income is reported; but we all do don't we???). The applied $3280 in expenses (included rent, food, phone, clothes, cable, entertain, util, misc) for the month. An SP would still end up with $17,000 and some change at the end of the year.

At any rate, this applies to everyone; it's not exactly what you earn, its how you spend it. My two bits.

 

[deke]

I don't think we appreciate how much work it is to answer the phone all day from a bunch of looky-loos that don't materialize into customers. Also, to answer a ton of e-mails that ask the same questions over and over again. Some girls that I have visited put there phone back on after a session and the phone rings immediately. From a pooners point of view, I would rather give all the money to the girl, rather than have her split it with someone who didn't entertain me.

 

[RobBC]

Before I start, I know that maybe I am off topic a bit and its not meant as a stab towards any SP or anyone for that matter. I tend to agree with Mav; did a quick calc of seeing two clients/day, 5 days/week, 48 weeks/year at $200 per. Then factored in a 40% tax rate (assuming all income is reported; but we all do don't we???). The applied $3280 in expenses (included rent, food, phone, clothes, cable, entertain, util, misc) for the month. An SP would still end up with $17,000 and some change at the end of the year.

Your math eludes me:

200 per client x 2 clients per day x 5 days per week x 48 weeks = 96,000

96,000 x 0.6 (ie 40% tax rate) = $57,600 on the year, not $17,000

And I certainly don't understand the $3280 figure for monthly expenses. Say rent is $800, food is $500, phone $80, $1000 for everything else (all of which are generous numbers), then you get a total of $2380, almost a full grand less than your figure.

As for the original question, I don't really choose a SP based on independent/agency so much as based upon other factors: cost, service, looks, etc. Here in Victoria I almost never see independents, not because I prefer agencies (if anything the opposite is true), but rather because the girls at the agencies are slightly less expensive, provide service that is just as good if not better than independents, agency girls usually have more reviews (so less risk for me), and since it's an agency I get the benefit of being able to browse the website and choose from a variety of girls.

Having said all that, if I could see a fav agency girl *for the same rate* outside of the agency, I'd definitely prefer that (more private setting).

RobBC

 

[Cinnamon Girl]

finally we're getting somewhere

Before I start, I know that maybe I am off topic a bit and its not meant as a stab towards any SP or anyone for that matter. I tend to agree with Mav; did a quick calc of seeing two clients/day, 5 days/week, 48 weeks/year at $200 per. Then factored in a 40% tax rate (assuming all income is reported; but we all do don't we???). The applied $3280 in expenses (included rent, food, phone, clothes, cable, entertain, util, misc) for the month. An SP would still end up with $17,000 and some change at the end of the year.

**Couldn't agree more**At any rate, this applies to everyone; it's not exactly what you earn, its how you spend it. My two bits.

pretty accurate break down of exspenses, give or take a few hundred and/or thousand. Add RRSPs & a truck payment to mine & gas lol No doubt, we live well thanks gentlemen.

shak makes a good point, who answers the phone first!

 

[logsplitter]

15 years back I used agencies and not indies. When I got back into this addictive habit last year again I went with indies and no agencies. I would only go back to an agency if my fav. moved there and there was no other way to see her (and even then I would shop the indies to see if a replacement was available before going back to an agency). I dislike agencies a lot and it has nothing to do with who gets the cash or the people that run them.

Indies set their own schedule. I'm lazy after I fuck. I really don't feel much like getting up and hurrying out so the room can be re-used. In my wildest dream (on the way into a visit) I believe that a 2nd shot on goal may be possible for my old bones but after the big O I just never get past that lazy feeling to go again. The ladies seem played out too and are all too happy to lay around and chat.

I only repeat with ladies that invite me back at the end of the first visit and are generous with their time. That can only come with an indie.

There is also the risk factor at an incall agency. LE may come knocking and that would be really awful. There is also the possiblility that you may run into someone that you don't want to at an incall agency. I am not aware of any instance where an indy operating out of a residence by herself gets raided by LE. It is my impression that what goes on behind a closed door of a residence is not the business of LE.

A smart indie, in my opinion, would provide an outrageous OVER THE TOP experience to a few select clients 5 days a week for quite a few years, save their money and retire on their investments. Too many ladies burn out in this busness because they make the business their life. They get addicted to the cash and see too many clients to develop a real life on the side. The life they end up with is the sex business which often they eventually leave poorer than when they came in and in way worse shape.

 

[travel guy]

I echo logsplitter's thoughts.