Why so much?

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vancity_cowboy

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that was explained well norm, very well :thumb: and now i can understand what it was you were saying in the earlier post

i think you've pretty much got it right, and i've gained a bit of understanding that i didn't have before :nod:
 

Tugela

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Have you been to a Starbucks lately? Whenever I am dragged there with a friend the line up is usually pretty long, with many people already drinking their purchased beverages in the cafe area. The brewed coffee taste comparable to that of Seven Eleven but is much more costly.
Have you considered why so many are willing to buy over priced crap coffee, when there are more economical options available? IMHO because of clever marketing that and a branding which tries to make the consumer feel like they are of a higher class and much trendier than those who go to Tim Horton’s or Seven Eleven. Me thinks this type of “branding” can be applied to escorts...
That is pretty much it.

If a client doesn't see $300, $400 or whatever as an excessive amount for what they are getting, they would be willing to pay that because they believe that they are with an SP who works with clientele in the same circles as them. Likewise they would never see a $150/hour SP because they believe that such a person provides services to a lower social strata than them. It is the same as choosing to drive a Porche when you could get a Dodge for way less.

It has nothing to do with competition, it has everything to do with status.
 

cesar

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Oct 16, 2008
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I heard Mr Freakonomics is a virgin!!!

Has the author of Freakonomics ever visited an escort?
I have seen women who charge $300+/hr & I have seen women who charge much less and you are not necessarily getting better by paying more (either sexual performance, personality, companionship etc etc). BTW this topic has been addressed on Terb and most comments seem to support my opinion. Some women simply charge more (and that is their god given right) - meanwhile I shop around.




I do think the motive for raising the rate is to get better clientelle (subject to whatever "better" means to her, but surely its meant to filter out those into such things as drug addicted street walkers, those with poor manners or without much education, etc).

Your quote from the Freakonomics book makes a lot of sense and I think it's the reality. This is why I never understood why any girl would charge less than $300 (sorry guys). I explained the background to this whole idea earlier in this whole thread, but everybody seemed to ignore it... so I'll restate my theory here:

The rates are set somewhat through this process - the low rate girls (I mean micro girls, asian massage girls, etc.) find that the maximum clients are willing to pay is somewhere around $140-$180. Because of competition, there is downward pressure for prices - that is, there is the tendency for rates to go down rather than up. That is why prices are determined by the lowest prices first. Since the lowest prices are set below $140-$180, the higher rate girls can charge more than that. The average price for them (which are usually the independents) is somewhere between $200-$300. The low rate girls largely exchange money for services, and as far as distinguishing one girl from another, that distinction is based on the kinds of service, the extremity of it, etc. The high rate girls exchange money more for companionship than service. They distinguish themselves from each other by such things as personality, interpersonal communications, accomodating fantasy, and of course sexual services. Personality and interpersonal communications is where there can be the largest differences between providers, in fact, one could say that is what makes each one unique from the eyes of the consumer (I know the provider would beg to differ, that she is unique in all aspects from her point of view). The providers who charge more than $300 are the ones who have been able to distinguish themselves as more "worthy". How would they do that? They do that with clever marketing, creating a persona that is believable and "worthy" to the client to pursue and spend his cash on, he believing that he is buying something that is rare and unlike any other SP out there - which is why I don't understand how an independent SP can market herself (ie: create a website) that is just like every other independent SP website out there: glamourized pics in a studio setting, a little bit of nudity, some generic verbage about herself, etc. If an SP would thoughtfully invest some intelligent effort and time in her marketing, along with the objective of what she wants to achieve, she could propel herself above the $300/hour mark easily.



I don't believe that. Looks is a subjective quality anyways, and I don't believe men will pay based on just looks, nor service. At the higher price points, they are paying for the privilege of being with the person, so it's how the person is marketed.
 

Elmore

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That is pretty much it.

If a client doesn't see $300, $400 or whatever as an excessive amount for what they are getting, they would be willing to pay that because they believe that they are with an SP who works with clientele in the same circles as them. Likewise they would never see a $150/hour SP because they believe that such a person provides services to a lower social strata than them. It is the same as choosing to drive a Porche when you could get a Dodge for way less.

It has nothing to do with competition, it has everything to do with status.
You're sure about this?

Because most guys who prefer fine dining will also go through the McDonalds drive thru in a heart beat. For most people, 300 dollars for one hour of companionship is a lot of money and considering that most don't have a pooning budget of $1200 - $1500 per month I tend to think that many who spend time with escorts who charge more also indulge in the lower priced option as well.

There are clients who fly escorts in or think nothing of booking duos and overnighters regularly but they obviously don't represent the majority of pooners.
 

Trus'Me

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I just read through this thread and I have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about, beside the fact that I can dial up 300 bucks for a fine piece of ass anytime I want. So I may be less edumacated (obviously - I'm a high school drop-out) than y'all, and y'all can wax all day about the economics of this business... But in the end, it's those of us whom are happy to pay the industry custom rates involved that keep it moving.

So go ahead, make a fool of me and outline how lay I am when I'm the guy with a fist full of dollars driving the current bargain that is the situation in BC regarding sex for money.

I'm a happy customer!

Don't get me started about my cel phone bill. That's the one that gets my panties in a knot.


*Cut me some slack I just suffered through 18 hours of Easter mandatory family gathering. It's 2:40 am here and I'm steaming just a little God damn shoot me please.
 

Tugela

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You're sure about this?

Because most guys who prefer fine dining will also go through the McDonalds drive thru in a heart beat. For most people, 300 dollars for one hour of companionship is a lot of money and considering that most don't have a pooning budget of $1200 - $1500 per month I tend to think that many who spend time with escorts who charge more also indulge in the lower priced option as well.

There are clients who fly escorts in or think nothing of booking duos and overnighters regularly but they obviously don't represent the majority of pooners.
Dinners who can afford it will always eat at the good places. People who are concerned about their self image but are on a limited budget will still go to the good places, but less often.

Just because someone regularly goes to McDonalds doesn't mean that they can't splurge the odd time and go somewhere better, but they are still bottom feeders and they do NOT represent the bulk of the fine restuarants customers.

Take me for example. I can't afford to eat out at the best places all that often, but you would not catch me dead in a McDonalds unless I was dragged there by friends. It is just beneath me and I would never choose to go there, or places like that, on my own accord.

The majority of clients who see SPs in the $300-500 range regularly are probably only seeing ladies in that range. If they can't afford it too regularly then they just don't do it too regularly.
 

Elmore

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Dinners who can afford it will always eat at the good places. People who are concerned about their self image but are on a limited budget will still go to the good places, but less often.

Just because someone regularly goes to McDonalds doesn't mean that they can't splurge the odd time and go somewhere better, but they are still bottom feeders and they do NOT represent the bulk of the fine restuarants customers.

Take me for example. I can't afford to eat out at the best places all that often, but you would not catch me dead in a McDonalds unless I was dragged there by friends. It is just beneath me and I would never choose to go there, or places like that, on my own accord.

The majority of clients who see SPs in the $300-500 range regularly are probably only seeing ladies in that range. If they can't afford it too regularly then they just don't do it too regularly.
I don't agree with your overall assessment of things but we all have an opinion and it's usually based on our situation since none of us have a pool of pooners from whose experiences we can draw.

Your theory is largely based on the average pooner seeing an escort only a couple of times per month or less. I say this because the overwhelming majority of people fall into the middle class range. I don't think there is any reason to assume that pooners buck that trend which would mean they don't have 15000 dollars or more of after tax income to spend on sex each year.

It's beneath you to eat at McDonalds (I don't eat there either) but how about Red Robin? We all have to eat regularly and few can afford to always do it at the most expensive joints. I don't think most pooners only do it monthly or a couple of times per month. I tend to think that most would seek less expensive options along with the higher priced ones in order to do it more regularly.
 

Dgodus

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Nov 5, 2011
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I do think the motive for raising the rate is to get better clientelle (subject to whatever "better" means to her, but surely its meant to filter out those into such things as drug addicted street walkers, those with poor manners or without much education, etc).

Your quote from the Freakonomics book makes a lot of sense and I think it's the reality. This is why I never understood why any girl would charge less than $300 (sorry guys). I explained the background to this whole idea earlier in this whole thread, but everybody seemed to ignore it... so I'll restate my theory here:

The rates are set somewhat through this process - the low rate girls (I mean micro girls, asian massage girls, etc.) find that the maximum clients are willing to pay is somewhere around $140-$180. Because of competition, there is downward pressure for prices - that is, there is the tendency for rates to go down rather than up. That is why prices are determined by the lowest prices first. Since the lowest prices are set below $140-$180, the higher rate girls can charge more than that. The average price for them (which are usually the independents) is somewhere between $200-$300. The low rate girls largely exchange money for services, and as far as distinguishing one girl from another, that distinction is based on the kinds of service, the extremity of it, etc. The high rate girls exchange money more for companionship than service. They distinguish themselves from each other by such things as personality, interpersonal communications, accomodating fantasy, and of course sexual services. Personality and interpersonal communications is where there can be the largest differences between providers, in fact, one could say that is what makes each one unique from the eyes of the consumer (I know the provider would beg to differ, that she is unique in all aspects from her point of view). The providers who charge more than $300 are the ones who have been able to distinguish themselves as more "worthy". How would they do that? They do that with clever marketing, creating a persona that is believable and "worthy" to the client to pursue and spend his cash on, he believing that he is buying something that is rare and unlike any other SP out there - which is why I don't understand how an independent SP can market herself (ie: create a website) that is just like every other independent SP website out there: glamourized pics in a studio setting, a little bit of nudity, some generic verbage about herself, etc. If an SP would thoughtfully invest some intelligent effort and time in her marketing, along with the objective of what she wants to achieve, she could propel herself above the $300/hour mark easily.
I cant speak for everyone, but myself and alot of people I know are a little cynical when it comes to marketing, and view it very suspiciously. I know ladies put the effort into their websites, but the majority are, as you say, pretty much all the same (including what they're saying about themselves). Even though I may get drawn into better marketing, I do expect more out of that experience. If that experience is a let down, or simply on par with those from a lower price point well that will be discussed to no end negativly (do a search on perb for billionairess, for the most part the results are not favorable), and frankly the higher the expectations the easier it is to be disappointed. So as I said earlier, even with the better marketing, raising of rates would require something about the service/experience offered itself to stand out and provide value to warrant repeat patronage.

Currently a provider I like to see just raised her rates, I'll still see her every chance I get, she could in fact raise it higher and I still would see her as much; however there would be a point in which I would end up seeing her less and then not at all (completly going out of my acceptable price range basically). There is also a provider I've seen a couple times I question wether the cost is worth it to me for the experience I receive (it's very much an "in the mood" thing to see her), another that is fine at her price range however if she were to raise it I wouldn't see. As well I can think of one off hand in which I had a discussion with someone why she would charge so little. So as Emmy said "she likes her clients very much", how much do you want to risk losing the regulars you already have, can you operate within the new clientele range, and if you cant and need to drop back down would your old ones not feel spurned and come back?

I think there is some merit to clients with more money wanting not necessarily the best but the perceived best (much like wine drinkers, some know what they're talking about, some think price = quality). However I think the two examples of coffee and cars are proper illustrations. Tim Hortons and Starbucks are largely similar (I dont drink coffee tbh) however there is a world of difference between the quality of a Porsche and a Dodge (years ago a certain European car magazine I used to read that dealt with performance vehicles always had a supercar competition, after the third year they "didn't want to give the 911 the award again, but it's just too good a car"). So you have two groups of people, those who throw around money (starbucks) and those who can properly asses value (Porsche). So you'll get people that will perceive an sp to be "the best" because of her marketing and higher price point, but once you get those who recognize true value chiming in with less than stellar word of mouth that perception changes (of course I'm speaking of if the total service isn't there).

As for filtering out drug addicts - can drug addicts (who are addicts mind you, probably regular users of not only drugs but sex as well, so not partaking once a month here) afford 300/hr? Probably not. Better manners? Who do you think would have better manners, someone who literally knows he couldn't have a woman like this normally, who's a real beauty, makes more money than him or someone who makes fistfulls of dollars is worth more than her (financially), has authority, is used to being dominante and feels he can simply buy his way to things? Wasn't there a thread not too long ago about more successful people have lower morals and more unscrupulous behavior (was posted by AIB so it's probably gone now)? I cant speak with certainty as I dont travel in those circles, but I have associated with people who prefer some finer things (mostly in their dress/appearance) and even though I make more they tend to look down on myself.

From reading reviews I've garnered that those who place the highest priority on sex and performance tend to book for an hour. Those who do multiple hours tend to want the whole experience (personally after trying a couple 1 hour sessions I find it's just sex, and I dont care for it that much, not a fan of "get off, get showered, get out" - I tend to last long, need at least 2 hours for everything. With a provider I really enjoy I've switched from 2 to 3hrs just so I can really enjoy myself). So wouldn't eliminating 1 hour bookings have the same effect of changing the client base without adding any extra pressure for the provider to meet with higher expectations. For a low volume provider that only sees x clients a day wouldn't this also improve her bottom line as now even though she still sees the same amount of clients she gets paid more hours?

And, yuck, comparing McDonalds to fine dining? A steakhouse compared to fine dining is a much better comparison, McDonalds is just bad for you food.
 

Elmore

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And, yuck, comparing McDonalds to fine dining? A steakhouse compared to fine dining is a much better comparison, McDonalds is just bad for you food.
It was a contrast, not a comparison.
 

Very Veronica

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Aug 2, 2004
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Stop your whining. Overall, prices have gone down with the huge influx of part timers & amateurs thanks to the internet which has also resulted in an increase of service & not surprisingly, fuckery.
 

Horse99

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With age, sometimes comes wisdom. I would rather pay $500 to be with my favourite, than $200 at an AMP for the following reasons:
I can kiss someone that isn't a smoker
I can converse in english for those moments while I recover....which is usually 98% of the time together in my case
I;m paying more for the quality surroundings.....it's worth a premium to me not worrying about where I have to put my feet in the shower, etc, etc
I am guaranteed that my favourite is clean, smells and tastes nice,.....
I get her undivided attention for the whole time, no phone calls or pretending to be mammasan.
There isn't a clock in the room.
She remembers my name, and says all the right other things.....

Do I need to go on?
 

mimi

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And it is a good comparison because McDonald's is as ubiquitous as Asian mps, and represents the reliable, predictable standard.

Humans need to eat more often than they need sex, and, sex is a much more personal 'need', so most folks are choosier about sex partners than they are about a quick bite of food.

When choosing sexual partners men tend to choose women who reflect their own peer group. We need to feel comfortable when we are undressing. Funny thing, but, some guys have mentioned before that they are uncomfortable with very high end women, as, they can be intimidating, and, prefer women with a few flaws, or women who are more 'average'.

@normisana: excellent points, and very well said.

Everyone here will express their opinion through their own personal experiences. My experiences with this industry were specifically through companionship type services in the eighties and then escorting type services in the nineties.

In the eighties there were strong demarcation lines separating the different styles of service, but, in the nineties those lines became blurred. I was pretty shocked at what passed for an 'escort' at that time and the word was being bandied about rather liberally for SW styles of service.

(Many experienced pooners here will remember having a crack whore dressed in dirty, smelly clothes showing up at the door after they phone a supposedly reputable agency. The fee in the nineties was anywhere between $250-$350 per hour (Jet Set, College Cuties etc))

So, my point :) is: what type of service are you interested in? Do you need to poon several times a week and are only interested in a release? Or, are you at the other end of the spectrum and only interested in a grand 'date' once a month? Do you wanna pay per service, or do you want an all inclusive? Do you actually wanna have a conversation, or just straight sex? Once the OP answers those questions he will be better able to manage his money. There are many great reviews of mp women.

@storm rider: I was adding up the services you listed: shower + bbbj, boob slide + bbbj, shower + clean up, and dividing this by 30 minutes and I am hard pressed to see how all that is managed within the time limit.

@Emmanual: very well spoken.
 

Elmore

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When choosing sexual partners men tend to choose women who reflect their own peer group. We need to feel comfortable when we are undressing. Funny thing, but, some guys have mentioned before that they are uncomfortable with very high end women, as, they can be intimidating, and, prefer women with a few flaws, or women who are more 'average'.
So the 50+ year old balding overweight guys seek the same? I don't think so.

I completely agree that is the case when seeking a life partner but not so much when seeking an escort. A separate poll here indicated that over 50% of men prefer women under 30. I would be surprised if the average age of a pooner was under 30.
 

PlayfulAlex

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That is pretty much it.

If a client doesn't see $300, $400 or whatever as an excessive amount for what they are getting, they would be willing to pay that because they believe that they are with an SP who works with clientele in the same circles as them. Likewise they would never see a $150/hour SP because they believe that such a person provides services to a lower social strata than them. It is the same as choosing to drive a Porche when you could get a Dodge for way less. It has nothing to do with competition, it has everything to do with status.
You're sure about this?

Because most guys who prefer fine dining will also go through the McDonalds drive thru in a heart beat. For most people, 300 dollars for one hour of companionship is a lot of money and considering that most don't have a pooning budget of $1200 - $1500 per month I tend to think that many who spend time with escorts who charge more also indulge in the lower priced option as well.

There are clients who fly escorts in or think nothing of booking duos and overnighters regularly but they obviously don't represent the majority of pooners.
Imho, these are some of the most sensible comments thus far. High rates (and high prices on many other commodities) are frequently sought after by those looking for a) status and b) a way to separate themselves from the masses. Think iPads, BMWs, downtown condos. And, because they can!

There's nothing wrong with this. I just think you have to be careful when you start judging the 'value' of something, as 'value' is one of the most subjective terms out there. Perceived value might be more accurate, and it all depends on who's doing the perceiving!
 

storm rider

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That is pretty much it.

If a client doesn't see $300, $400 or whatever as an excessive amount for what they are getting, they would be willing to pay that because they believe that they are with an SP who works with clientele in the same circles as them. Likewise they would never see a $150/hour SP because they believe that such a person provides services to a lower social strata than them. It is the same as choosing to drive a Porche when you could get a Dodge for way less.

It has nothing to do with competition, it has everything to do with status.
Fuck status....who gives a rats ass....I could fork over $400 to a visiting SP from Montreal for 1 hour
and while she might be good and she might be sexy there is just no fucking way on earth she would provide the same service level that I get on average at my fave micro and would not come close to the service I have gotten at my fave micro when I was pooning off the hook crazy and going 4 times a week and repeating 2-3 times with each gal.There is just no way any western world SP will provide that service as they feel it is beneath them......and thats the type of service I want....no I dont want to be some fuckstick like GR8 from CAF who gets off by sodomizing a gal and pulling her hair whilst doing it as he cant do that with his wife and thusly sees hookers.....I have no desire to demean the gals....I just want wicked service....and I have learned that I can only get at a fine quality micro...so why on earth should I pay more for poor service that does not fulfill my expectations?

With regards to meaningfull conversation with an SP.......give me a fucking break....you are not there to talk you are there to FUCK and to be sexually satisfied.....if the gal gets off that is a credit to you ;)....if you want to talk and spill your guts go see a therapist and if you cant manage to have a decent conversation post coital with your SO/GF then you are either headed for a breakup or divorce....and besides....an SP cant talk when she has her mouth full and is doing her job.

SR
 

TenderLover

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Jul 1, 2008
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storm rider, looks like you know what you're talking about.
question, what's your favour micro?


Fuck status....who gives a rats ass....I could fork over $400 to a visiting SP from Montreal for 1 hour
and while she might be good and she might be sexy there is just no fucking way on earth she would provide the same service level that I get on average at my fave micro and would not come close to the service I have gotten at my fave micro when I was pooning off the hook crazy and going 4 times a week and repeating 2-3 times with each gal.There is just no way any western world SP will provide that service as they feel it is beneath them......and thats the type of service I want....no I dont want to be some fuckstick like GR8 from CAF who gets off by sodomizing a gal and pulling her hair whilst doing it as he cant do that with his wife and thusly sees hookers.....I have no desire to demean the gals....I just want wicked service....and I have learned that I can only get at a fine quality micro...so why on earth should I pay more for poor service that does not fulfill my expectations?

With regards to meaningfull conversation with an SP.......give me a fucking break....you are not there to talk you are there to FUCK and to be sexually satisfied.....if the gal gets off that is a credit to you ;)....if you want to talk and spill your guts go see a therapist and if you cant manage to have a decent conversation post coital with your SO/GF then you are either headed for a breakup or divorce....and besides....an SP cant talk when she has her mouth full and is doing her job.

SR
 

normisanas

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Nov 23, 2009
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I cant speak for everyone, but myself and alot of people I know are a little cynical when it comes to marketing, and view it very suspiciously. I know ladies put the effort into their websites, but the majority are, as you say, pretty much all the same (including what they're saying about themselves).
Good marketing never feels like you've been marketed to. It feels natural and real.
 

PlayfulAlex

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Jan 18, 2010
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Fuck status....who gives a rats ass....I could fork over $400 to a visiting SP from Montreal for 1 hour
and while she might be good and she might be sexy there is just no fucking way on earth she would provide the same service level that I get on average at my fave micro and would not come close to the service I have gotten at my fave micro when I was pooning off the hook crazy and going 4 times a week and repeating 2-3 times with each gal.There is just no way any western world SP will provide that service as they feel it is beneath them......and thats the type of service I want....no I dont want to be some fuckstick like GR8 from CAF who gets off by sodomizing a gal and pulling her hair whilst doing it as he cant do that with his wife and thusly sees hookers.....I have no desire to demean the gals....I just want wicked service....and I have learned that I can only get at a fine quality micro...so why on earth should I pay more for poor service that does not fulfill my expectations?

With regards to meaningfull conversation with an SP.......give me a fucking break....you are not there to talk you are there to FUCK and to be sexually satisfied.....if the gal gets off that is a credit to you ;)....if you want to talk and spill your guts go see a therapist and if you cant manage to have a decent conversation post coital with your SO/GF then you are either headed for a breakup or divorce....and besides....an SP cant talk when she has her mouth full and is doing her job.

SR
Ummmmm, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking it, so I'm gonna say it... You simply cannot speak for everyone here. If that's what you want in your adventure, great! But I'm sure that the variety in the types of needs and experiences is as vast as the number of men and women.

All people should be entitled to go for the experience that suits them, qualified by 'with consent". This may include talking, hugging, kissing, dancing, modelling, making a protein shake, eating banana bread and drinking coffee together, etc, etc, etc...ie. to each their own...maybe YOU are not there to talk but some just might be, and it's all valid!
 

storm rider

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Dec 6, 2008
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storm rider, looks like you know what you're talking about.
question, what's your favour micro?
I know what I am talking about with regards to my tastes/expectations/wants/desires......a good number of pooners share my views.....and a good number of pooners dont.....the latter are the type that want the BS "conversation" thingy......sevenofnine AKA Jasper of CAF is among those.....why people think a meaningfull conversation is part of P4P sex is beyond me....I just dont get that and I dont want to......I want awesome wicked sex with incredible service served up by a willing gal who is allmost half my age....ooh but the micro bashers and western SP's try to pour water on the fire with ridiculous BS such as human slavery and the like as they dont like to offer the same level of service....yet the gals working in the micros are the same gals working in the 1-4-1's of Hong Kong and Macau and do so willingly there to provide for their family.....and they have realized that they can make far more by working in North America and at the same time they offer better service and aty a lower price than western SP's.

As to your question my fave micro is in Calgary so it is most likely not convenient for you.

SR
 
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