The Raquel Rose

Why LE Check Massage Parlours

shakeshake

Member
Sep 22, 2005
39
9
8
About a week ago, I was in Uspa for a massage.
Half way through, LE came to shop to check on customers. They came to the room door and asked to see my ID. They did not get inside the room.

I am curious as to the real reasons for the ID check.
1. It was obvious I was not underage but they still asked to see ID.
2. They did not check ID of masseuse. They did not even come in to see who she was.
3. They did not rush into the room to catch whatever might be going on inside.
4. Uspa is considered to be legit. Unlike Atlantis, for example, which also had a visit on the same night, according to a poster here.
5. Surely, they were not there to catch bad guys with these random visits.

Apparently, LE has conducted checks at Uspa about once a month. Don't know the frequency for other places.

Are they trying to hurt the massage business by harassing their customers?
Are they rogue officers trying to shakedown the massage shops?
Are these officers simply following orders from higher up to carry out these meaningless tasks?

What do you think?
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
5,182
38
48
....and then there are the folks that have parole restrictions because of their offences....
 

Shanghai

Active member
Mar 22, 2015
571
198
43
Just checking ID, cops can keep it in their "private" notes database and it shows up anytime you are stopped for a ticket or if they run your license plate. It is not associated with any police report, so you get into a category where you become "known" to the police.
Bring a library card, generic bus pass or non-picture ID. There is zero requirement for you to carry your government-issue picture ID with you when you are not in your car.
 

DanTheMan1

New member
Jan 28, 2011
17
0
1
Just checking ID, cops can keep it in their "private" notes database and it shows up anytime you are stopped for a ticket or if they run your license plate. It is not associated with any police report, so you get into a category where you become "known" to the police.
Bring a library card, generic bus pass or non-picture ID. There is zero requirement for you to carry your government-issue picture ID with you when you are not in your car.
What would be acceptable non-picture ID?
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Jun 28, 2008
1,361
39
48
52
@the Meat Market!!!lol
So.....generally speaking...

these ID checks are to ensure people are of age to engage in sex work so mostly focused on the workers ID but they may also be checking for "warrants" or "organized crime" affiliation when checking clients ID.

I feel this is in direct conflict with the new province wide policy of "lowest level of enforcement". This is obviously disruptive to business and is making clients feel unsafe when accessing services through a massage parlor.

our objective is to stabilize these legitimate businesses. we need indoor spaces to work which are safe and licensed parlors are ultimately the best way for safe work spaces to operate. we also need you guys to feel safe when going there.

i have spoken to the richmond RCMP before so will contact them again and try to find out;

1. why they are doing these checks
2. why they are going to the rooms at all
3. if there are complaints which are driving these checks (there was a rash of fake complaints in vancouver about under age workers)
4. how we can help them to better approach these complaints or ID checks without such intrusive police intervention.

In vancouver i have been consulted about these kinds of complaints and have been able to intervene before the police have disrupted the businesses being complained about. they ask me if i know about a parlor or owner and if i think the complaint is valid.

this is the kind of relationship we would like to develop with police across the province and country eventually in order to stop the pointless and disruptive practice of ID checks.

i will report back here when i get some more information about the checks and the remedy from the sex worker community perspective.

sorry this is happening but i would like to say, supporting legitimate licensed massage parlors is the best purchasing practice guys. condo brothels are mostly alright too but legitimate businesses treat their workers the best. supporting them and using their services instead of non-licensed helps to move our industry towards a legal, ethical environment.

so, please don't get too freaked out by this. i will check into it and try to stop the practice.

support your local massage parlor!!

love susie
 

DanTheMan1

New member
Jan 28, 2011
17
0
1
So.....generally speaking...

these ID checks are to ensure people are of age to engage in sex work so mostly focused on the workers ID but they may also be checking for "warrants" or "organized crime" affiliation when checking clients ID.

I feel this is in direct conflict with the new province wide policy of "lowest level of enforcement". This is obviously disruptive to business and is making clients feel unsafe when accessing services through a massage parlor.

our objective is to stabilize these legitimate businesses. we need indoor spaces to work which are safe and licensed parlors are ultimately the best way for safe work spaces to operate. we also need you guys to feel safe when going there.

i have spoken to the richmond RCMP before so will contact them again and try to find out;

1. why they are doing these checks
2. why they are going to the rooms at all
3. if there are complaints which are driving these checks (there was a rash of fake complaints in vancouver about under age workers)
4. how we can help them to better approach these complaints or ID checks without such intrusive police intervention.

In vancouver i have been consulted about these kinds of complaints and have been able to intervene before the police have disrupted the businesses being complained about. they ask me if i know about a parlor or owner and if i think the complaint is valid.

this is the kind of relationship we would like to develop with police across the province and country eventually in order to stop the pointless and disruptive practice of ID checks.

i will report back here when i get some more information about the checks and the remedy from the sex worker community perspective.

sorry this is happening but i would like to say, supporting legitimate licensed massage parlors is the best purchasing practice guys. condo brothels are mostly alright too but legitimate businesses treat their workers the best. supporting them and using their services instead of non-licensed helps to move our industry towards a legal, ethical environment.

so, please don't get too freaked out by this. i will check into it and try to stop the practice.

support your local massage parlor!!

love susie
Thanks for the help, definitely freaked me out and making me rethink things. You may be interested in checking out this thread about more raids https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?271332-Atlantis-Spa-Richmond/page6 . From page 6 to present.
 

chico1

Active member
May 23, 2016
313
53
28
Vancouver
So.....generally speaking...

these ID checks are to ensure people are of age to engage in sex work so mostly focused on the workers ID but they may also be checking for "warrants" or "organized crime" affiliation when checking clients ID.

I feel this is in direct conflict with the new province wide policy of "lowest level of enforcement". This is obviously disruptive to business and is making clients feel unsafe when accessing services through a massage parlor.

our objective is to stabilize these legitimate businesses. we need indoor spaces to work which are safe and licensed parlors are ultimately the best way for safe work spaces to operate. we also need you guys to feel safe when going there.

i have spoken to the richmond RCMP before so will contact them again and try to find out;

1. why they are doing these checks
2. why they are going to the rooms at all
3. if there are complaints which are driving these checks (there was a rash of fake complaints in vancouver about under age workers)
4. how we can help them to better approach these complaints or ID checks without such intrusive police intervention.

In vancouver i have been consulted about these kinds of complaints and have been able to intervene before the police have disrupted the businesses being complained about. they ask me if i know about a parlor or owner and if i think the complaint is valid.

this is the kind of relationship we would like to develop with police across the province and country eventually in order to stop the pointless and disruptive practice of ID checks.

i will report back here when i get some more information about the checks and the remedy from the sex worker community perspective.

sorry this is happening but i would like to say, supporting legitimate licensed massage parlors is the best purchasing practice guys. condo brothels are mostly alright too but legitimate businesses treat their workers the best. supporting them and using their services instead of non-licensed helps to move our industry towards a legal, ethical environment.

so, please don't get too freaked out by this. i will check into it and try to stop the practice.

support your local massage parlor!!

love susie
Thank you!
 

CDNVT

Gent Who Has Your Back
Jun 19, 2019
299
6
18
PQB/ CDN
techstop.invisionzone.com
So.....generally speaking...

these ID checks a~~~

love susie
Thank You also.

When I visit , I drop all ID from myself , leave it in the car that's parked away from the address im visiting ..I took my phone last visit , BUT no more

That has way to much info connections on it ..


Im not leaving anything for eyes who have no rights !!

VT
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Jun 28, 2008
1,361
39
48
52
@the Meat Market!!!lol
Ok, so I phoned them yesterday and spoke to the "Watch Commander" and explained why ID checks were problematic for both workers and clients. I said disrupting work especially at this time of year was really not necessary and was in a way a waste of police resources. That licensed parlors are the LEAST likely to employ underage or exploited persons as they have a lot to loose in terms of the business investment building a legitimate store front.

I went on to explain that in Vancouver at the very least officers wait in the front reception area for workers to come out when investigating a complaint and that clients are not included in those ID checks. I explained the new "lowest level of enforcement" policy which the RCMP have signed onto and how this kind of enforcement was in part what the new policy is meant to prevent.

He was very pleasant but stated that he was out of his area of expertise and would refer me to someone in the Organized Crime Section (i knew this would be part of it).

I gave him my number and email and he email replied back;

Hello Susan,

I referred your call to our organized crime Sgt. and asked that the sex exploitation coordinator contact you in the near future. No one was available today. There was a lot of sense in your position but there are a lot of other variables and other crimes such as human trafficking that sometimes come to light. In either case I think I've overstepped my expertise and hope your discussions are fruitful.

R/Constable

so, i called the organized crime section today and no one will be there until January 6th so i will call them back again then.

I hope we can stop this kind of needless intrusion in the future and that as we move forward we can raise awareness about the new policy and begin to bring some stability to work places across the province.

i will report back once i have actually spoken them about all this and have a response but in the mean time would like say, they are all on vacation so the chances of running into an ID check while visiting a parlor is highly unlikely at least until next week.

cheers and happy new year everyone!

love susie
 

shakeshake

Member
Sep 22, 2005
39
9
8
Thank you Susie for following up on this matter.
If I understand correctly, the whole Organized Crime Section is on vacation until Jan 6.
And this OCS is responsible for directing uniform officers to conduct random checks on massage customers to catch bad guys on the wanted list.
I am not knowledgeable on LE internal protocols but I see something seriously wrong with this picture.
Hope Susie will be able to make sense of this.
 

susi

Sassy Strumpette
Jun 28, 2008
1,361
39
48
52
@the Meat Market!!!lol
ok, so further update...

i received a phone call today from an RCMP officer in that section and the ID checks are generally related to preventing underage people from working but also related to organized crime members using the services of massage parlors. It was expressed to me that they want organized crime members to know that the police are watching and will not allow any harm to come to sex workers in massage parlors. So for organized crime members to "behave".

we discussed what best practices should look like for entering and ID checking people in massage parlors and it seems that there is a disconnect between what officers have been instructed to do and what is happening on the ground. that is a training issue and i was assured that clarification would be given to officers in regard to what the spirit of the new policy is and what the expectations are of officers who are enforcing the ID check protocol.

i will say that when we first started to engage with police about their attending sex work businesses....i guess it was 2007...? it was because of the organized crime task force in vancouver. those officers were attending strip clubs and harassing dancers and patrons alike. i witnessed it myself, it was awful.

the reasoning given was that they had to hire "tough guys" for the OC Task force because the gangsters were tough guys. well, they were a different kind of officer...i remember one officer standing arms crossed with a toothpick in his teeth....he was so rude to me when i braced him...anyway....when we asked- at the VPD Board meeting about why they thought harassment of dancers was ok, they stated - they (dancers) should know better....they were referring to dancers knowing better than to work as a dancer....not helpful...anyway, it lead to committees, meetings and eventually the VPD enforcement policy which protects us all today.

so the point is, this is not a new thing, this idea of targeting organized crime and throwing sex worker safety under the bus. i understand their perspective about the safety of sex workers being around a gangster who for example has a "hit out" on them....but, there is really no legitimate reason to place that goal over the goal of safe work spaces for sex workers.... i have never heard of a "gang hit" happening in a massage parlor....so is it worth the disruption of business, fear among clients, impact on ability to earn income and safety working in numbers?

i felt very positive after my conversation that they will have a conversation with the officers who conduct the ID checks about best practices, that we will be able to work with them towards building relationships with parlor owners instead of creating barriers and mistrust in police and to ensure that whatever safety measures are developed or implemented, that sex workers and the impact on their lives and safety will be at the center of planning.

i hope that answers your question shakeshake

love susie
 
ok, so further update...

i received a phone call today from an RCMP officer in that section and the ID checks are generally related to preventing underage people from working but also related to organized crime members using the services of massage parlors. It was expressed to me that they want organized crime members to know that the police are watching and will not allow any harm to come to sex workers in massage parlors. So for organized crime members to "behave".

we discussed what best practices should look like for entering and ID checking people in massage parlors and it seems that there is a disconnect between what officers have been instructed to do and what is happening on the ground. that is a training issue and i was assured that clarification would be given to officers in regard to what the spirit of the new policy is and what the expectations are of officers who are enforcing the ID check protocol.

i will say that when we first started to engage with police about their attending sex work businesses....i guess it was 2007...? it was because of the organized crime task force in vancouver. those officers were attending strip clubs and harassing dancers and patrons alike. i witnessed it myself, it was awful.

the reasoning given was that they had to hire "tough guys" for the OC Task force because the gangsters were tough guys. well, they were a different kind of officer...i remember one officer standing arms crossed with a toothpick in his teeth....he was so rude to me when i braced him...anyway....when we asked- at the VPD Board meeting about why they thought harassment of dancers was ok, they stated - they (dancers) should know better....they were referring to dancers knowing better than to work as a dancer....not helpful...anyway, it lead to committees, meetings and eventually the VPD enforcement policy which protects us all today.

so the point is, this is not a new thing, this idea of targeting organized crime and throwing sex worker safety under the bus. i understand their perspective about the safety of sex workers being around a gangster who for example has a "hit out" on them....but, there is really no legitimate reason to place that goal over the goal of safe work spaces for sex workers.... i have never heard of a "gang hit" happening in a massage parlor....so is it worth the disruption of business, fear among clients, impact on ability to earn income and safety working in numbers?

i felt very positive after my conversation that they will have a conversation with the officers who conduct the ID checks about best practices, that we will be able to work with them towards building relationships with parlor owners instead of creating barriers and mistrust in police and to ensure that whatever safety measures are developed or implemented, that sex workers and the impact on their lives and safety will be at the center of planning.

i hope that answers your question shakeshake

love susie

Thank you for being so proactive Susi!
 
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