Why is Europe mostly socialist?

[80watts]

An interesting question.
Well I think its answear is going to be more than all ideals people will bring up.
I think it has to do with Europe before WW1, the results of WW1, and the interwar period and rise of Facism (And European governments fear of communism). WW2 destroying Europe and the aftermath of WW2. The rise of industrilization and the pay of workers, unions, long hours and 6 day work weeks, profiteering by owners etc. But mainly its the difference between the rich and the poor. But its all about the people. Their lives and dreams of a better place.

 

[zippy45]

I think because they realized it was a system that worked, why the fuck do you always seem to look for answers that are obvious? i am going to ignore you now because you are boring
>?

 

[EuroSZabina]

An interesting question.
Well I think its answear is going to be more than all ideals people will bring up.
I think it has to do with Europe before WW1, the results of WW1, and the interwar period and rise of Facism (And European governments fear of communism). WW2 destroying Europe and the aftermath of WW2. The rise of industrilization and the pay of workers, unions, long hours and 6 day work weeks, profiteering by owners etc. But mainly its the difference between the rich and the poor. But its all about the people. Their lives and dreams of a better place.

I envy your free time

 

[johnnydepth]

There is how a form of government is suppose to work in theory and how it actually works in practice. Socialism is a nice happy middle ground.

 

[Uncled]

 

[froggyfroggy]

What socialist European country/countries are you referring to?

 

[wetnose]

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

I don't think that any countries in Europe can be defined as socialist at all. The governments would have to own all of the factories, companies, ports, banks and real estate to qualify as socialist. No private entities can exist at all under socialism.

 

[masterblaster]

An interesting question.
Well I think its answear is going to be more than all ideals people will bring up.
I think it has to do with Europe before WW1, the results of WW1, and the interwar period and rise of Facism (And European governments fear of communism). WW2 destroying Europe and the aftermath of WW2. The rise of industrilization and the pay of workers, unions, long hours and 6 day work weeks, profiteering by owners etc. But mainly its the difference between the rich and the poor. But its all about the people. Their lives and dreams of a better place.

A socialist utopia. Just like British Columbia

 

[Cloud 500]

Europe is anything but socialist. Those country are capitalistic countries with a strong welfare state. I know many socialists and marxists like to say that the Nordic countries are socialist but that could not be further from the truth. Those are free market capitalistic countries with a strong welfare state. They do not even have minimum wage. Socialist countries are places like Cuba and Venezuela where the government controls the means of production. All businesses are state owned. However as one can see we know how the people there live in poverty and the government in luxury. Trudope is a communist just like his father was. Both were friendly and agreed to Cuba and Venezuela socialism with a one party system. To have socialism government must control all. Marxism is a failed theory since it fails to take into account human greed. How can everyone be equal? What is the motivation to do better if everyone gets same pay?

 

[Post Malone]

I think because they realized it was a system that worked, why the fuck do you always seem to look for answers that are obvious? i am going to ignore you now because you are boring
>?

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[80watts]

You know down south that country that is in turmoil.... Yes the United States. Why, they are having the exact same debate, capitalism and socialism. Just in a different form. The problem with capatalism is greed. Only rained in by the government. When the government is corrupt and senators and congressmen take bribes and are too busy making it them or us issues, the rest of their population suffers. The greed in the US, poisoned land and bodies of water. Cutting off budget to the Environmental agency, and opening up land for development makes it easier for capitalism to pollute. The rich simply move away after the destruction of the land.

Socialism is a dirty word, for business people. It means extra taxes, and it goes for people who don't work for it. Socialism also makes employers pay more for the worker than the owner wants (this is why US business do their manufacturing in China and Tiwan and Mexica- cheaper labour). Why there is a middle class today. The rise of union in the early 1900s saw to a stabilzation of the middle class and increase due the sharing of the wealth created by manufacturing. And Why there is also health care, unemployment benifits, welfare, and programs for job training etc. Capitalist govenments would have none of that, it cost them profit.

Right now Russia is a country run by oligarths, rich men making profits from everything they control. Its not communism, its a diatatorship run by rich guys....

Canada is a socalist government. So are most of the European countries. They have health care, welfare, social programs, pension plans etc. Yes the economy is capitalist, but money earned goes to the government to pay for social reforms and programs to keep the populace stable and relatively happy, so there are no revolutions and civil uprisings.

If it was a system that worked, then why is Spain and Italy and Greece failing in the European Union, spending too much money on social system, corruption etc. Europe has gone socialist only after WW2 , that was 1945. Canada didn't get universal health care until the late 50s.

It is said rich people get there by working off the backs of their employees. Mostly its because they hold monopolies in the form of patents.

 

[Johnnydarkdoe]

Europe is anything but socialist. Those country are capitalistic countries with a strong welfare state. I know many socialists and marxists like to say that the Nordic countries are socialist but that could not be further from the truth. Those are free market capitalistic countries with a strong welfare state. They do not even have minimum wage. Socialist countries are places like Cuba and Venezuela where the government controls the means of production. All businesses are state owned. However as one can see we know how the people there live in poverty and the government in luxury. Trudope is a communist just like his father was. Both were friendly and agreed to Cuba and Venezuela socialism with a one party system. To have socialism government must control all. Marxism is a failed theory since it fails to take into account human greed. How can everyone be equal? What is the motivation to do better if everyone gets same pay?

This is a capitalist’s definition of socialism. Socialists do not use this description at all. What you are describing is communism, which is not the same as socialism. Most socialists even promote mixed economies where there is strong public funding like schools, unions and healthcare in addition to a robust private sector. the European countries in question have these mixed economies and are widely understood to be socialist by actual economists who live in said European countries.

 

[Cloud 500]

^^^^^
You cannot have socialism without the state controlling the means of production and forced equality therefore it is a type of statism which leads to communism. You can read the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx. Socialism = Communism.

 

[Cloud 500]

80watts,

What the US has is not Capitalism it is in reality Corporatism aka Crony Capitalism. In a true free market none of those things you described would happen but they do because government gives them the power and works with them to help them get richer. Socialism is a colossal failure. See how the people of Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea live? Better yet see the difference between Hong Kong and China. There can never be a price tag on freedom and a society best prospers in a free society with minimal government involvement. Countries like the Nordic are very capitalistic see they do not even got a minimum wage. You wrote patents but they exist because of the government. Government granted them patents so how is it a true free market capitalistic society?

Ahh yes taxes. Taxes are theft. No buts or whats it is theft. When government takes your hard earned money away from you your labor so they can spend it as they please and if you do not you are threatened with jail that is theft. Taxes are no good for anyone because all they do is make everyone poorer. The redistribution of wealth makes no sense. It encourages ppl to leech off the system much in the way Fidel Trudope did with his ridiculous CERB and now he is working on a Universal Basic Income. What incentive does anyone have to innovate or improve themselves if government takes so much of your hard earned money to give it to others who sit home and leech off the system? You work for them. And so much of that money is wasted in bureaucracy and to pay politicians overly inflated salaries for not doing much. Makes no sense. Before 1917 there were no personal income taxes. Personal income taxes should be abolished. Taxes should only be applied to consumption. Best way to encourage an economy in recession is to reduce all taxes let people keep more of their money. Everyone is held more accountable for their own actions also. Business tax should also be reduced along with too many licenses and rules. All that encourages a booming economy. It has to be more attractive for business investment. Many businesses avoid investing in Canada due to very high taxes and too many rules to follow. Competition leads to better prices and better service and more variety.

To conclude those high taxes hurt the poor and middle class the most that socialists claim to say they are trying to help. The ultra rich get away with it they find ways to evade taxes.

 

[Johnnydarkdoe]

^^^^^
You cannot have socialism without the state controlling the means of production and forced equality therefore it is a type of statism which leads to communism. You can read the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx. Socialism = Communism.

Karl Marx died 175 years ago. The world and definition has changed a lot since then. I suggest you get with the times and relate to living and breathing people a little more.
I swear, I feel like this forum is the town in Footloose sometimes and we just have a bunch of Reverend Shaw’s telling us how dancing and rock music are the tools of Satan.

 

[Andrew69913]

Europe?? Socialist?? The land of Monarchs and Oligarchs?? What are you even talking about dude?

 

[marsvolta]

part of the problem is that "socialism" has so many definitions. the fact that it is a complex concept is used for and against its real meaning.

in actual fact, successful modern democracies are mixed economies. "economic system blending elements of a market economy with elements of a planned economy, free markets with state interventionism, or private enterprise with public enterprise"

and the entire political system revolves around the delicate interplay of public and private enterprise. any rhetoric for or against public or private enterprise invariably is a tool to push smaller changes in where the line between these two systems are and, more importantly for public enterprise, who pays for it. captains of private industry have no interest in the privatization of the publicly funded support mechanisms of capitalism, and the promoters of social capitalism are in no way interested in displacing the economic power of free markets.

the big problem is that rhetoric has been so extreme in order to secure power for a few.

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?” - George Orwell, 1984

 

[80watts]

Let do a review on Capitalism. Or more specific Capital. (Assets)

Take a look at the documentary on Netflix called : Capital in the 21st Century

I watched it tonite. It was very informative. Around min 33, a pychologist talks about a rigged game of monopoly and the winner reactions. Gives a great history lesson on capital. From its history you can see where it is going (class struggle). And that shit right now is happening in the US. It will happen up here in Canada to, its just a matter of time.

But the main thing I got from it was the rise of the middle class, to now when the current state the middle class is erroding.

Yes it talks about taxes, how rich people and ultra-rich corporation avoid taxes, which puts a heavier burden on the middle class.

 

[licks2nite]

Currently unpresidented government intervention in bond markets decouples corporate fundamentals from stock market value. Central banks print money out of thin air to buy and bid up corporate bonds that offer negative yield if held to maturity. Corporations use the money from the sale of bonds to buy and bid up the corporation's own stock to elevated levels, the price of which bares no reality to the underlying value of the corporation, even before Corvid-19.

 

[Uncled]

Currently unpresidented government intervention in bond markets decouples corporate fundamentals from stock market value. Central banks print money out of thin air to buy and bid up corporate bonds that offer negative yield if held to maturity. Corporations use the money from the sale of bonds to buy and bid up the corporation's own stock to elevated levels, the price of which bares no reality to the underlying value of the corporation, even before Corvid-19.

So when will the house of cards fall?