Why Do We Still Live In Fear?

[Bad Santa]

At one time when I was a young lad back in the 60's and 70's it appeared that the "Golden Age" of sexual freedom was upon us. With the birth control pill and Hefner's Playboy revolution it seemed that things were finally changing.

But now over 40 years down the road how much have things really changed?

Some things have changed. Women have pretty much achieved equal rights with men and the gay community have also won many hard fought battles for their rights.

But when it comes to the exchange of money for sex between two consenting adults it hasn't changed that much.

In the U.S. it's still illegal in most states and in Canada many of the activities surrounding the trade are still illegal. Because of these laws and the mostly negative attitude of society in general toward us practitioners there is still a bad stigma attached participants in prostitution. The very word "prostitution" conjurs up such bad vibes. It's no wonder most of us still keep our activities deep in the closet.

When I see someone I know and love from this hobby in public, we don't even acknowledge each other. This is supposed to be the "cool" way to react. Cold as ice, two ships passing in the night as we walk by each other averting our eyes.

It's so sad. Makes me want to give it up, such a lonely feeling comes over me.

But then I have a warm and beautiful afternoon with someone sweet and smart like Jana and it makes me think it's all worthwhile again!

Thank you Jana!

 

[Bad Santa]

Well, I guess if you are referring to dearly beloved sp's who don't acknowledge you in public, it is simply an observation of the protocols of the business. Some people might find it a little off putting if cheery greetings were exchanged. However, if you want to break down barriers, you could buy one of my tasteful "Whore" (for the ladies) "Trick" ( for the guys )T shirts I am marketing. Kind of like " I'm with stupid" T shirts we all owned.

Hey, anything that helps to enlighten people and help to make the trade more acceptable is great with me!

 

[Bad Santa]

The problem is that there are waaaaaay too many gomers who cannot grasp the social niceties of the situation where you might encounter each other in public. One key point is that you probably don't know her real name & the people she's with probably don't know her working name.

Case in point, Lexie at EBC in Edmonton said that one bright gomer encountered her at the golf course & tried the friendly "Hello Lexie". Lexie was with her mother. Lexie is not her real name. Now Lexie has a very curious mother to deal with...

You just better off sending a friendly greeting e-mail acknowledging the almost meeting after you get home.

I understand that completely PG but my point is she shouldn't have to explain it to her mother. I'm hoping for the day when she can tell her mother how she makes a living and and her mother says, "more power to you girl, I'm glad you're smart enough that you've found a profession where you can enjoy giving pleasure to people and make a lot of money at it!"

 

[lenny]

Why Do We Still Live In Fear?

In a word, because of religion, which condemns us.

 

[Bad Santa]

In principle Bad Santa, I agree with you. Perhaps a day will come in the future when she won't have to explain.

But honestly, I think you're dreaming if you think much will change in the near future. This hobby is still at a stage where some clients don't respect the SP's and what they offer. The term "hooker" doesn't bring about great warm fuzzy thoughts, does it? The issue is much prostitution it's how we view sex. Sex is still something you can't openly discuss at random. Hell, women that admit they enjoy wild, dirty sex are hung from the line to dry. If we can't accept soccer moms admitting they like a good hard workover...we're 100 years from being able to casually mention we hired a hooker for a weekend fling.

PS. I'd love a Whore T shirt.

I think attitudes toward sexual issues can change Dood, but people have to fight for that change. Look how far the gay community has come because they fought for change!

It's because we're all so scared that nothing changes.

In a word, because of religion, which condemns us.

I agree Lenny. A big part of it is religion. But usually it's people's twisted view of religion.

Afterall, one of Jesus' closest followers was Mary Magdellan! What does that tell you?

 

[Bad Santa]

I live outside of Victoria, it isn't as big and you can't help but run into clients while at the bank or grocery store or neighborhood pub. But all is good my clients are respectful and I need not worry. Though it would be nice not to have this "secret" A few more friends in Vancouver know and they are supportive. However my family is my children so I need to respect them. They are the innocent though I believe my eldest would support I can bring to tell her.

Angie, I just hope I can meet you sometime in this lifetime. You just seem like the nicest person on Perb! Thanks for all the Good Karma, Sweetheart!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

I think attitudes toward sexual issues can change Dood, but people have to fight for that change. Look how far the gay community has come because they fought for change!
It's because we're all so scared that nothing changes

This was basically going to be my answer to your first post. That is exactly what it is.

But when it comes to the exchange of money for sex between two consenting adults it hasn't changed that much.

The very word "prostitution" conjurs up such bad vibes. It's no wonder most of us still keep our activities deep in the closet.

That word conjurs up bad vibes because people only know or imagine one kind of prostitution, the one image most people have of prostitution survival prostitution/street prostitution/drug addiction motivated prostitution - one which views the women as victims and men as dirty and disrespectful etc - which is all bad vibes.


For the word to conjure up another image or opinion, people have to have another option. Without that, people's view of prostitution remains limited. The only way to change that is for people to see someone that doesn't fit any of those preconceived ideas of a prostitute or a client, someone "normal" just like them. That's when people's opinions are going to change.


But as long as everyone keeps hiding and remains in the closet, we can't expect any change. All of those changes that are a result of the gay movement did not come magically while everyone was in the closet. The changes only happened because more and more gays decided to take the harder road, came out of the closet and make a point that regardless of opinions at the time, they were not hiding in shame anymore... and were able to change the way people viewed gays and from there, the rights of gay people.


With everyone in the closet, no change can be expected. Given that very few sp/clients are open and honest about it with the people in their lives, I think it's unrealistic to expect much change to happen. You can not gain respect or acceptance when you are hiding in shame. When we stop hiding in shame - we'll get respect. It's not just going to happen and no one is going to just do it for us. But for now, everyone's too scared and hoping someone does it for them.

 

[Bad Santa]

That word conjurs up bad vibes because people only know or imagine one kind of prostitution, the one image most people have of prostitution survival prostitution/street prostitution/drug addiction motivated prostitution - one which views the women as victims and men as dirty and disrespectful etc - which is all bad vibes.


For the word to conjure up another image or opinion, people have to have another option. Without that, people's view of prostitution remains limited. The only way to change that is for people to see someone that doesn't fit any of those preconceived ideas of a prostitute or a client, someone "normal" just like them. That's when people's opinions are going to change.


But as long as everyone keeps hiding and remains in the closet, we can't expect any change. All of those changes that are a result of the gay movement did not come magically while everyone was in the closet. The changes only happened because more and more gays decided to take the harder road, came out of the closet and make a point that regardless of opinions at the time, they were not hiding in shame anymore... and were able to change the way people viewed gays and from there, the rights of gay people.


With everyone in the closet, no change can be expected. Given that very few sp/clients are open and honest about it with the people in their lives, I think it's unrealistic to expect much change to happen. You can not gain respect or acceptance when you are hiding in shame. When we stop hiding in shame - we'll get respect. It's not just going to happen and no one is going to just do it for us. But for now, everyone's too scared and hoping someone does it for them.

You're so right Miss Bijou! For change to come about there always have to be some extremely brave leaders who take the first steps to clear the way for others.

I know I'm not that brave but I should be. Like you said, most of us are hoping someone else does it for us.

 

[uncleg]

In a word, because of religion, which condemns us.

You sure. The same religions exist in Europe as exist in North America, and nobody is getting condemned there. It's a taxpaying profession.
People live in fear of embarrassment. On here we admit to what we are, be it SP or "pooner" but we don't say who we are, nor does anybody know. If every guy I've met that claims to never have "paid for it" really hadn't, most of the ladies on here would be working a 9 to 5 job and most of the guys would probably still be virgins. As pointed out, its legal to be an SP and it's legal to be a "pooner," so why not admit to being either or ? When that happens, then you won't have anything to fear.

 

[HubbaHubba]

The gay community has fought very hard to get acceptance in this world...but have they really got it? They went from being the pariahs of the world to being the cartoonized interior decorator guys on TV. It's like the black version of Amos and Andy. To get acceptance, they need to play the part. It's cool to be gay now, but you need to be a twink that loves fashion, design, and martini's. l.

Wrong again dood.....The#1 strong gay man on TV Watch him be forceful!


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[Bad Santa]

I am nice! Thanks Santa. So How about a new ride for Christmas?

Now you're being naughty, not nice Angie! I like naughty better though!

 

[lenny]

You sure. The same religions exist in Europe as exist in North America, and nobody is getting condemned there. It's a taxpaying profession.
People live in fear of embarrassment. On here we admit to what we are, be it SP or "pooner" but we don't say who we are, nor does anybody know. If every guy I've met that claims to never have "paid for it" really hadn't, most of the ladies on here would be working a 9 to 5 job and most of the guys would probably still be virgins. As pointed out, its legal to be an SP and it's legal to be a "pooner," so why not admit to being either or ? When that happens, then you won't have anything to fear.

I'd suggest the dominant religion in Europe is the Catholic religion, and it traditions condemn us,
as in disapproving of us, both escorts and their clients. It is the same in Canada, although i think
Protestantism is more prevailing in the USA.

Prostitution is a taxpaying profession in all the nations of Europe? If so, that is news to me. I'd
like to hear more about that, with a view to going there, if that is the case. Either way, i doubt
that that would mean both hookers and johns go about without any fears, care freely boasting
to all their relatives, friends and neighbors about their involvement in the business.

I'd agree that people fear embarassment. They have all kinds of other fears as well, such as
the fear of rejection {and all the fears that go with that}, fear of the law, fear of loss of
inheritance, fear of causing great disappointment and heartache to loved ones, etc.

Why do we fear all these things? Because of the potential negative consequences to ourselves
or others. What is the source of all this? In a word, i'd say religion. Virtually all religions of any
significance have condemned what we do.

 

[lenny]

I agree Lenny. A big part of it is religion. But usually it's people's twisted view of religion.

Afterall, one of Jesus' closest followers was Mary Magdellan! What does that tell you?

As i recall, there used to be a poster here who had a website with articles that took the position
that the Christian Bible does not condemn prostitution. I think that i am safe in saying that this
viewpoint, whether correct or not, is a very small minority position amongst this religion.

 

[leoghaire]

1 corinthians chapter 6 is pretty clear in its opposition to prostitution. Jesus associated with a large number of "sinners" prostitutes and tax collectors by professsion hoping that they might change their ways. But overall the NT is fairly liberal for anyone who will actually read it as opposed to just repeating what someone once told then it said. There are only 2 rules 1)love the Lord and 2)love your neighbour as yourself. Pretty straight forward.

 

[picknshvl]

The problem is our puritanical attitudes about sex, poeple can't separate sex from love. It's perfectly acceptable to pay someone to massage your entire body, but if you have an orgasm it's a no-no. How many men who are on this site are married? If thier wives knew, would they understrand? I don't think so with most of them

 

[AA_Train]

Organized religion has both condemned and exalted the act of sex. They send mixed messages of how wrong and how sacred it is. It is these associations that dictate society's view of sex. These views probably grew as a way to foster families and the propagation of their ethnic group by the maintenance of that family. Remember, religion is society worshipping itself.

As for prostitution, the word is now a more general term, meaning people will do anything for a dollar. Because sex is considered so sacred, having sex for money is what is most recognized in association with this term as doing so is seen as an extreme.

The truth is, sex itself is not anything particularly special, it is just an act. Making love is special and sacred, but there are deeper emotional, mental and spirituial connections there that one can't tangibly qualify or quantify. The sex trade itself would seem to undermine the need to seek out such relationships and that is a big reason as to why it has a negative image.

Will this ever change? Probably not anytime soon, no matter what the action. Even if SPs were the ones to come out and say it but the negative images are seen as the rule and they would be seen as the exception. It's a shame, really but that's just how it is.

 

[Bad Santa]

Organized religion has both condemned and exalted the act of sex. They send mixed messages of how wrong and how sacred it is. It is these associations that dictate society's view of sex. These views probably grew as a way to foster families and the propagation of their ethnic group by the maintenance of that family. Remember, religion is society worshipping itself.

As for prostitution, the word is now a more general term, meaning people will do anything for a dollar. Because sex is considered so sacred, having sex for money is what is most recognized in association with this term as doing so is seen as an extreme.

The truth is, sex itself is not anything particularly special, it is just an act. Making love is special and sacred, but there are deeper emotional, mental and spirituial connections there that one can't tangibly qualify or quantify. The sex trade itself would seem to undermine the need to seek out such relationships and that is a big reason as to why it has a negative image.

Will this ever change? Probably not anytime soon, no matter what the action. Even if SPs were the ones to come out and say it but the negative images are seen as the rule and they would be seen as the exception. It's a shame, really but that's just how it is.

It's a shame but it isn't how it should be! Men have always paid for sex one way or another, whether married, in a relationship or with a prostitute.

To me, the SP/Pooner relationship is the most honest. It's a clear cut contract. In our complex world today anything that makes life a little less complicated is a plus!

I just wish we could elevate the SP/Pooner relationship away from the gutter where so called "normal" society wants to place it. It's just sex afterall! Why do the control freaks of the world always have to insist on getting into everyone elses business?

To me it's a private business deal that concerns only the parties involved and people who are involved in the trade should be treated with the same respect as any other part of our society.

Live and let live!