Where r we with bill c36?

[newatit]

I have been in Europe for three weeks with some time in London. So out of touch with the bill and it's amendments. I read nothing of closures of brothels in London.
But getting awAy from it all I sort of have a new perspective on this bill. The very wording of the preamble and then the following clauses are in conflict. This bill should have been named the protection of prostitutes act rather than communities. Why? Well this bill really is about sexuality in communities rather than just prostitutes and it gives the police the power to investigate every sex act occurrence in canada to determine if a gain occurred. Think about the wording of those clauses and forget about prostitution as u normally think of it for a moment. Imagine taking your girl friend on a holiday and on return you get questioned as to who bought her plane ticket and did you have sex and what is the nature of your relationship?

This law will give the perverts in Ottawa a way to learn about the sex lives of every citizen. U will have prove that anything or benefit u gave a girl was not for the sex she probably wanted from you.

This law will prostitute a large number of Canadian women and while the won't be prosecuted their name will appear in the court records of those that are. Lives ruined forever over an innocent act of natural desire.

This act will cancel the sexual revolution of the last fifty years. Perverts are creating this

 

[westwoody]

The Senate committee is debating it Sept 9, 10 and 11. They can approve it as is or recommend changes.
If it is accepted as is it can go to the House of Commons. The sponsoring member places on the Order Table (the Common's to do list), MPs will vote on it and if passed, it becomes law.
If changes are recommended it goes back to the Commons committee for more debate.
Then one more look by the Senate committee and back to the Commons committee.
Then it has to go to the House of Commons.

Since the Tories have a majority and this is a major bill for them it will definitely be passed into law. Any further debate is irrelevant, a majority can pass whatever they want.

I would say no sooner than late September, no later than the end of November.

 

[manni]

wouldn't it be summer vacation for most MP's this time of year?
they do have families.

 

[johnsmit]

I hate bring ip the N word.. because we all associate that with the persecution of Jews there were all so gypsies. Homosexuls. ..The mentally ill.. and any one that disagreed with the party or the laws ...

When look are the chain of events that allowed the N party to come to power . Nothing like that happened here.. here we just became complacent.. and our right were eroded bit by bit.... With the security act... and little changes here and there... Then prostitution wants more right..and what happens is they be come a target a long with the ordinary people that use their services .. All in the name of good for the camunity The family security act

Speaks so much of dictatorship. It makes me puke.
But few people see it that way. . Because what happens to pervert does not matter.. In some ways we are just as guilty for what's happening. Who here has labled others perverts.. ..and now stand painted with the same brush..

I know I sound like a broken record.. and I never lived in a dictatorship before .. just heard of them.. .and knew we all ways had to he vigilant . To no avail ..

 

[westwoody]

wouldn't it be summer vacation for most MP's this time of year?
they do have families.

Yes that is why hearings resume on September 9.

 

[newatit]

It would be interesting to see what changes the committees come up with. No question this think is likely to pass unless a strong rebellion suddenly arises, but it really has the promise of making so many criminals and prostitutes in Canada.

Like what is life all about? We seek mates that provide us with sexual services. This law isn't just about the corner hooker, it is about every woman in Canada.

 

[dipsett]

i don't know what i'm going to do, sp's are all i got.

 

[newatit]

and that is the sad part. So many men and even women, do not have mates, and the one outlet they have is the artifical love they can enjoy momentarily at the hands of a provider.

This act is setting the value of sex at zero. at least legal sex. And it seems to assume that sex is only bought from prostitutes whereas so many women are living with men for the sole purpose support in exchange. And many gals find an occasional encounter provides them innocently with a few dollars to help out with school or other expenses.

This law is going to create a sex police division in every police department through out our land. Every sexual transaction in this country including Mr McKay's can be questioned for it conformance with this law.

How do we tweet out this message to Canada?

 

[Robert Upndown]

I just do not see the VPD having the time or resources to enforce this law. When the old laws were valid, they concentrated on underage, human trafficking , drug and gang involvement, street walkers etc.. For the most part Independents were left alone which I predict will be the same in the future. The police are stretched thin now enforcing the laws that endanger people, where is the money going to come from to enforce this ridiculousness?

 

[summerbreeze]

I agree, they won't waste tax payer money chasing an unknown outcome in the courts.

 

[rexxx]

I just do not see the VPD having the time or resources to enforce this law. When the old laws were valid, they concentrated on underage, human trafficking , drug and gang involvement, street walkers etc.. For the most part Independents were left alone which I predict will be the same in the future. The police are stretched thin now enforcing the laws that endanger people, where is the money going to come from to enforce this ridiculousness?

Every John gets fined

 

[susi]

the VPD and the City of Vancouver have stated that they will honor their tolerance and non enforcement policies. inside the city of vancouver we have some protection in place and have fought for years to ensure that no matter the outcome on the federal level, we will be able to continue to work safely here in the city.

i am preparing a senate brief which i will post here after i have submitted it. but yes, comments here about the time line seem correct.

remember people, stick to well known parlors inside the city or indy workers and you should be fine. my feeling is most of the enforcement will be in the form of"rescue raids" and sex buyers cruising street workers. rescue raids will not be happening here in vancouver like in other places but certainly if every business owner is considered a pimp, there will be these kinds of actions at some point....

sorry, i have to go right now, i have a client here....

love susie

 

[westwoody]

When the old laws were valid, they concentrated on underage, human trafficking , drug and gang involvement, street walkers etc.

The current laws are adequate to deal with all these issues. and that is my issue!

All the crap in C36 is just pure politics so the Tories can take credit for "solving" prostitution.

 

[johnsmit]

With all the talk. Submission.. rederick and fear. .There seems to be no change in the course the bill is going to take . It will be passed and be come law.. Some escort agencies will close or be closed by action under the law..t

Some clients will be charged under the new law..and we will have to see who is willing
To go to court to fight for their rights.. well they be able to make the right argument to have these new laws thrown out .Or are the course willing to tramale on the individual rights for the good of the community .

Is there an argument that can demonstrably show that prostitution and be able to buy the services of a prostitut is good for the community. And that there is no harm to the individual or the community.
Is there a argument for that ?

 

[newatit]

If we all just sit here and complain on PERB, not much will happen. today I wrote a letter to Mr. Trudeau and sent essentially the same letter to Mr Mulcair. In these letters, I did not concentrate on the item of prostitution, nor express an opinion on it, rather I pointed out that the issue of charging or paying for sexual services is not at all limited to prostitutes. If you step back for a moment from the subject of prostitution and look at the wording of that bill with respect to a gain for sexual services, you have to realize a few things. The is a law for everyone, not just prostitutes. So lets take this law into the public domain and women other than prostitutes.

Men have lovers and mistresses who do not regard themselves as prostitutes, and yet extract a fair amount of cash and support in the relationship which has a strong sex component to it. So they gain! So under this law, they become prostitutes and the lover becomes a criminal. Yet we are supposed to be dealing with prostitutes.

Go a bit the other way. Men take women out to woo them, impress them and finally in some mode to seduce them when both individuals feel the moment is correct. It costs the man and the woman benefits. Fits the Bill, and each man is a criminal and the woman is a prostitute, but in general, no one, would normally look at it that way. this is nothing more than the age old mating game. It is part of our life. It is normal. Man pay, impress, seduce, or maybe woman seduces. who cares!

And off in another direction, young people enjoy their sexual freedom these days, both male and female. They have for a long time. But under this Act, McKay will be able to investigate each act of intercourse to see if some one paid? Because it is the law not to pay for it.

Don't think so? In my lifetime, when homosexuality was a crime, the city I lived in had a police force that had a department whose job was to route out homos. The guys were charged, names listed in the papers, lives ruined, simply over an act of sex. We are back in those days now. Only it is all sex and all people now. So do you honestly think there won't be a sex compliance department in the police force offices? History says there will be.
And once those departments have exhausted the sex trade as we know it, they will turn to us normal people to check us out. It is their job

So what can we do? First of all, any of you who read this should do what I did, write to the leaders of the opposition and express your horror at the way the bill is written. Never mind discussion of the issue of prostitution, just tell them we have a right to sex under any deal that adults care to make. and promote your cause.

I would like to see a few volunteers write a letter to the students in each university in Canada, the student councils expressing the concern that their individual sexual lives are at stake with McKay. The universities are a powerhouse that the Conservatives can't afford to alienate. Lets send in notes to the letters to the editor in the nations newspapers pointing out the issue of privacy and the fear of sex police over this issue. And get on to the many cultural groups in canada to stop McKay.
This type of thing can work but time is short and I need manpower or galpower? Any volunteers? any writers?

Everything can be done by email, no need to spend money, just research addresses and send and email. Pepper the conservatives so hard that they will know re-election is tough if they pass this stupid law.

I am off to asia this week, but if there is interest I will send those persons a copy of my letter and they can fire it out to their list.

 

[westwoody]

Is there an argument that can demonstrably show that prostitution and be able to buy the services of a prostitut is good for the community. And that there is no harm to the individual or the community.
Is there a argument for that ?

I think Adam Smith says something about it in his Wealth of Nations.

 

[Sterling Knight]

I think there are plenty of arguments that can be made against this bill. The reality of the situation is that this bill isn't going to change a thing. The profession has been active for a very long time and I don't see it going away anytime soon. I do however agree that human trafficking, underage, drug/gang involvement and street walkers need to be addressed as I think that is what makes the entire business look bad and it shouldn't be used to label every adult who chooses to see an escort in the privacy contained within four walls. The entire business should not be painted with the same brush.

I also agree with newatit - "This act is setting the value of sex at zero. at least legal sex. And it seems to assume that sex is only bought from prostitutes whereas so many women are living with men for the sole purpose support in exchange. And many gals find an occasional encounter provides them innocently with a few dollars to help out with school or other expenses."

I am beginning to think that our country is slowly becoming a police state and censorship will soon be at it's worst.

 

[johnsmit]

Did you only realize that now sterling knight..
It seem if you are not involved in some thing you never realize the level of censorship we have in Canada

I want to see them charge a gay guy.. With buying sex. And see the shit storm that happens
THIS is not a bout prostitution it about a witch hunt.. The court of Salem. Want to start to judge the nation to see if we are worthy..
I wish these fucked could read the bible..The one they claim guide s them

Honestly this fundamentalist sect that is controlling so many members of the government is wanting to play god..
.
Only thing that will come from that is a great fall..
If my limited experience in life gas shoes me how morally curupt the little man is.. and how fucked up Christians are
There is no way any of the people proposing the bill are white a driven snow.. They might be leave their own Preaching..
But guess what they will be brought down from the high horse .

Of course it won't stop the bill it will just be the instrument used to prosecute them
Some just deserts.