Where are all the doom and gloomers

zaig

Active member
Nov 21, 2003
274
24
28
Funny we haven't heard from all the posters who were predicting the sky was falling. You know who you are, if you are still visiting this site. You know, the ones that predicted real estate values falling by 40-50%. That the whole economy was coming apart at the seems.

The last time I checked, the Real Estate market was booming, as this June will attest. The 2nd biggest month ever in the Lower Mainland for real estate.

I wonder if any of those genius' sold their homes expecting a big drop and would buy in later at reduced prices. If they didn't get the job done by April, they will continue to be on the outside looking in.

It always amazes me how many genius' there are on this site.
 

bruins70

New member
Aug 19, 2008
134
1
0
Expect a 3 page cut and paste response lecture (followed by 3 paragraphs of patting himself on the back because he "predicted this" from Krustee in 5....4....3...2..
 

Evolve

Hypo-serious
Jun 1, 2008
246
2
0
Location Location
Here`s some doom and gloom. This recovery feels like it is happening artificially fast to me. Maybe it`s just my pessimist nature, but I am still a little worried.

I predicted the future here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=883819#post883819

The stock market seems to be on a steadier rise about twice as fast as I predicted. The Canadian dollar is rocketing toward parity with the U.S. dollar WAY faster than I predicted.

Obviously, there is no chance that I was wrong, so this must be a false recovery.




Okay, there`s a chance that I was wrong. :D
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
Funny we haven`t heard from all the posters who were predicting the sky was falling. You know who you are, if you are still visiting this site. You know, the ones that predicted real estate values falling by 40-50%. That the whole economy was coming apart at the seems.
Who predicted a drop of 40-50%?

There is this re-hash I posted here:
http://66.51.242.32/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=905164#post905164

My prediction?

I think the Western regions of Canada will only fall by 30-37%.

The plains provinces & Ontario will probably see an additional 5-7% drop.

That is all

:cool:
The only thing proping the economy up right now is the Olympics.
This is a west coast thing & you will note that the east is not faring too well at the moment.

I suggest you all continue to do what you have been doing:



The last time I checked, the Real Estate market was booming, as this June will attest. The 2nd biggest month ever in the Lower Mainland for real estate.
How about real estate elsewhere in Canada?

I wonder if any of those genius` sold their homes expecting a big drop and would buy in later at reduced prices. If they didn`t get the job done by April, they will continue to be on the outside looking in.

It always amazes me how many genius` there are on this site.
Here`s the latest stats:
http://docs.rlpnetwork.com/rlp.ca/PressReleases/090707_chart.pdf

I held my properties as I know there may be another bump after the Olympics.

The fact is what we are seeing here is a bubble - a false economy with the housing prices.

When the lack of jobs & losses in the earnings sink in here we will see what the rest of the country has been for the last 6 months.

How much has the losses in the automotive industry affected our economy alone?

Where are most of those jobs located?

GO talk to your local auto dealer about how many sales they are making this year compared to last.

I say this for several reasons & one of them is that we are still seeing job losses here & across the nation & with the impending fallout of the ARM loans in the US defaulting & the banks there not being able to hide those losses, even under the new fantasy "Mark to Market" asset accounting practices allowed by the Fed. as of January 1, 2009, we will see further downward pressure on the economy.

On March 16, 2009, The FASB have proposed allowing companies to use more leeway in valuing their assets under "mark-to-market" accounting, a move that could ease balance-sheet pressures many companies say they are feeling during the economic crisis.
On April 2, 2009, after a 15-day public comment period, the FASB eased Mark-to-Market rules. This change still requires financial institutions to mark transactions to market prices but more so in an steady market and less when the market is inactive.
To proponents, this removes the unnecessary "positive feedback loop" that can result in a deeply weakened economy.[19]

Companies can use the new guidance when issuing their first-quarter financial statements.[20] Such changes could significantly boost bank statements of earnings and loses[21].
The FASB changes, however, are for acceptable accounting standards applicable to a broad range of derivatives, not just banks holding mortgage backed securities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark-to-market
Does anybody here know what "Mark to Market" means?

Hint;
It`s the same accounting practice that Enron used to inflate the value of their stock.

Hey!
What ever happened to those Enron folks anyway?
:rolleyes:

So what is the outlook on our trade?

World economy constrains Canada’s exports through late 2010, says EDC forecast

(Ottawa) – July 9, 2009 – Canada’s exports will remain hobbled by a sluggish world economy until the latter half of 2010, according to Export Development Canada (EDC)’s summer Global Export Forecast.

“The good news is that global commerce is actually working off the excesses that had built up in recent years,” said Peter Hall, Vice-President and Chief Economist at EDC. “Unfortunately, the pile was so high that we still have a way to go before balance is restored in the latter part of next year.”

As was previously forecasted by EDC, Canadian exports will tumble by 21 per cent in 2009 and activity levels will remain low in 2010, as growth will be a relatively meager 6.6 per cent.

World output has again been revised downward. The global economy is now forecast to contract by 1.7 per cent in 2009, followed by modest 2.7 per cent growth in 2010. EDC’s spring 2009 forecast had predicted a 1.3 per cent contraction in 2009, followed by 2.3 per cent growth in 2010.

Driving the contraction in exports are plummeting export prices and sharply weaker physical shipments. Commodities will see the biggest drop in export sales, with energy, fertilizers and base metals sustaining an average decline of 38 per cent. The auto sector will repeat the 2008 decline of 22 per cent, reflecting the collapse in demand in the United States and the restructuring underway in the sector. The forestry industry will continue its decline of recent years, with a further 14 per cent drop as pulp and lumber shipments falter.

“Exporters will be partly shielded by a weak Canadian dollar which we forecast to hover in the US 83-85 cent zone over the next 18 months,” said Mr. Hall. “But true recovery will not come until 2011.”

The global economy was weakened by the collapse of the United States housing market in the middle of 2006. The housing market crash spilled into financial markets and, by the fall of 2008, had pushed many financial institutions to the brink, constraining credit worldwide. A drop in global demand is still underway, compounded by mounting unemployment which will further strain the financial sector.

EDC is Canada’s export credit agency, offering innovative commercial solutions to help Canadian exporters and investors expand their international business. EDC’s knowledge and partnerships are used by more than 8,300 Canadian companies and their global customers in up to 200 markets worldwide each year. EDC is financially self-sustaining, a recognized leader in financial reporting and economic analysis, and has been recognized as one of Canada’s Top 100 Employers for eight consecutive years.

-30-

Media contact:
Phil Taylor
Export Development Canada
Tel: (613) 598-2904
Blackberry: ptaylor@edc.ca

http://www.edc.ca/english/docs/news/2009/mediaroom_16715.htm
Expect a 3 page cut and paste response lecture (followed by 3 paragraphs of patting himself on the back because he "predicted this" from Krustee in 5....4....3...2..
Yup I just posted 3 pages all because you said so.
:rolleyes:

Here`s some doom and gloom. This recovery feels like it is happening artificially fast to me. Maybe it`s just my pessimist nature, but I am still a little worried.

I predicted the future here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=883819#post883819

The stock market seems to be on a steadier rise about twice as fast as I predicted. The Canadian dollar is rocketing toward parity with the U.S. dollar WAY faster than I predicted.

Obviously, there is no chance that I was wrong, so this must be a false recovery.




Okay, there`s a chance that I was wrong. :D
Actually, there is a day of reckoning coming when the Gov tries to balance the budget & realizes just how much stimulus money they spent & most of it for red herring.

The entire country is still heavily in debt on a personal basis, more so than ever before in history.

Banks have been hit hard with losses from holding bad notes.
They have become gun shy to further loan approvals to small business - the cornerstone of any local economy!

Add to that the pending rise in interest rates & you have a recipe for a meltdown.

When oil & gold start rising again it will bring higher interest rates which will bring more defaults on loans & the Feds will be powerless to do much because they have already spent our children`s future on the last bailouts!

Just put those rose coloured sunglasses on & be like Scarlett O`Hara.

 
Last edited:

Shakerod

Active member
May 7, 2008
616
71
28
The smart people that are realistic about what is happening in the world are following the events in the United States. I am not going to keep repeating myself, you can listen to Alex Jones's archived show every day on the multimedia at www.prisonplanet.com. The so called"DOOM AND GLOOM" is going on all over the U.S., but on a positive note there is a huge amount of resistance coming from the population.
 

chilli

Member
Jul 25, 2005
993
12
18
We are in a "bubble" because of the Olympics - once the Olympics are said and done where do you think all those people who are working on the infrastructure are going to go for work?

It's not about Doom and Gloom its just about being aware of whats going on around you.
 

rimas

Member
Jan 3, 2007
120
0
16
Yes, there has been an uptick in real estate mainly because some people held back on purchasing so they could pick deals on desperation and foreclosure. That always happens. Check to see how many people are actually buying everyday stuff - plasma tvs, cars, vacations, toys, furniture, etc. I've even seen the normal $300/hr SP tag drop to $250-280 avg. over the past couple of months in Cowtown.

There is still a huge cautionary mood out there. My business is down 40% over last year, and many of my associates are reporting similar stats. I have to operate with 40% less staff as well.
 

littlejimbigher

New member
Jun 21, 2006
1,440
4
0
surrey
There is still a huge cautionary mood out there. My business is down 40% over last year, and many of my associates are reporting similar stats. I have to operate with 40% less staff as well.
Some businesses go down and some go up. We are having new records in sales at our company.
A realtor friend in Richmond says Julys sales are better than at the the peak of the market.
 

treveller

Member
Sep 22, 2008
631
10
18
Yes, the sky really is falling

I predicted we would be screwed if we failed to vote for electoral reform.

Now we learn we have bullshit changes to sales taxes and we are paying millions of dollars a year to a bunch of thieves running BC Ferries. The list goes on.

I expect to hear no complaints from any of the fools who voted for First Past the Post instead of Single Transferable Vote. I expect to hear even less from any of the fools who didn't' vote. We are all getting what they deserve so we shouldn't have to listen to their whining as well.

As for the bigger picture, we have global warming (whatever the cause), liquidation of the planets natural resources and a growing population of 6 BILLION. Any present economic noise is relatively irrelevant.

Personally, I am working on a niece big sand box I can bury myself in. That and more visits to the lake. This heat is wonderful. What's wrong with global warming?
 

Jodie

B.Bj, M.Sog, Fs.D
Mar 14, 2004
661
5
0
Vancouver, BC
www.vancouverjodie.com
The last time I checked, the Real Estate market was booming, as this June will attest. The 2nd biggest month ever in the Lower Mainland for real estate.
Undoubtedly a panic blip brought on by record low interest rates and a 10-15% dip in prices, which combined to bring the average monthly payment down by close to $1500. People saw an opportunity and jumped on it. Good on them for doing so.

It will be interesting to see the stats for July. I could be wrong, but I suspect that sales numbers will not be nearly as strong as they were in June, and that the downward trend will continue for the remainder of the year. Prices are probably about the same as, or slightly higher than June levels, but that is not a sustainable trend.

Fixed rate mortgages have gone up about 50-60 basis points since early June. Asking and selling prices have also gone back up. The economic fundamentals (employment levels, etc.), combined with an increase in the cost (monthly payment) of owning will drive prices back down. I'm not saying there will be a crash, probably just a flat to slightly downward trend in sales and prices, but we are far from booming.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
No, we're not booming but..

we're not anywhere near a badly off as many predicted. I recall doing a poll last year, and may of the naysayers were saying the housing market would correct by about 40% often citing Case-Shiller studies etc.

I countered that this is a different country, different mortgage lending criteria, and lots of pend up demand from first time buyers.

That said, I also predicted a correction of at least 10% and the fundamentals aren't all that good.

The cap rates ie net rent/purchase price is extremely low ~ 2-3% and I would never recommend anyone buy as an investment. In fact just last week I talked a client out of it, or at least gave her ideas to consider, such as commercial property. Bottom line is that if you're an investor you probably need a cap rate of at least 5-6% to justify the hassle.

And FWIW, I just sold a property which closed today, lost about 10% from last year, but I'm still happy about the overall result which is what counts as increased a little over 50% in the 5 years I owned it.

Strangely enough I listed it on Craigslist and I ended up being my own selling agent. Saved several grand taking that approach.
 

hunsperger

Banned
Mar 6, 2007
1,062
5
0
...

Undoubtedly a panic blip brought on by record low interest rates and a 10-15% dip in prices, which combined to bring the average monthly payment down by close to $1500. People saw an opportunity and jumped on it. Good on them for doing so.

It will be interesting to see the stats for July. I could be wrong, but I suspect that sales numbers will not be nearly as strong as they were in June, and that the downward trend will continue for the remainder of the year. Prices are probably about the same as, or slightly higher than June levels, but that is not a sustainable trend.

Fixed rate mortgages have gone up about 50-60 basis points since early June. Asking and selling prices have also gone back up. The economic fundamentals (employment levels, etc.), combined with an increase in the cost (monthly payment) of owning will drive prices back down. I'm not saying there will be a crash, probably just a flat to slightly downward trend in sales and prices, but we are far from booming.
not sure what any of this means really...

way to go out on a limb...

perhaps she can tell us tomorrow will be Saturday:rolleyes:...

or what her favourite wine is and why it is the best:rolleyes:...

and than try to pass it off as pseudo-intellect...

the pretentiousness of these economic threads is something to behold...

especially on an escort review board...

hardly the Wharton School of business...

who's going to win the Stanley Cup next year sweetie:rolleyes:...
 

hunsperger

Banned
Mar 6, 2007
1,062
5
0
...

Undoubtedly a panic blip brought on by record low interest rates and a 10-15% dip in prices, which combined to bring the average monthly payment down by close to $1500. People saw an opportunity and jumped on it.
that's his point sweetie...

why didn't all the economic genuises on Perb anticipate this...

you guys are all good at telling us what happens after it happens...

not so good at telling us what happens before it happens...

undoubtedly:rolleyes:...

BTW, am I correct in understanding that the 2010 Olympics are going to be a fiscal and economic boondoggle...

who would have thunk it:rolleyes:...
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
that's his point sweetie...

why didn't all the economic genuises on Perb anticipate this...

you guys are all good at telling us what happens after it happens...

not so good at telling us what happens before it happens...

undoubtedly:rolleyes:...
.
Since you are obviously wiser than everyone else here;
why don't you let us all know what effect the "mark to market" accounting practices will have on the major banks & lending institutions?

What effect will that have on the economy in the next 6-12 months?

I see you typing a lot snide commentary but nothing in rebuttal?

There are 3 kinds of people in this world hunsperger;
Those who make things happen

Those who watch things happen

&

Those who wonder what the hell happened.



Try not to be the latter.


:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Jodie

B.Bj, M.Sog, Fs.D
Mar 14, 2004
661
5
0
Vancouver, BC
www.vancouverjodie.com
not sure what any of this means really...
Too many big words and complex sentences for you? Here, let me simplify it:

No boom. June bubble pop.

way to go out on a limb...

perhaps she can tell us tomorrow will be Saturday:rolleyes:...

or what her favourite wine is and why it is the best:rolleyes:...

and than try to pass it off as pseudo-intellect...

the pretentiousness of these economic threads is something to behold...

especially on an escort review board...

hardly the Wharton School of business...
I apologize. I didn't realize escorts were not supposed to express intelligent viewpoints on topics unrelated to escorting. I'll just go back to talking about cum, dick and boobies. After all, it's obviously the only thing I know anything about.

who's going to win the Stanley Cup next year sweetie:rolleyes:...
If I tell you, do you promise to bet your life savings on them? :D
 

Cosmo

Riddle's unwrapped enigma
Jul 30, 2003
506
1
18
115
Funny we haven't heard from all the posters who were predicting the sky was falling. You know who you are, if you are still visiting this site. You know, the ones that predicted real estate values falling by 40-50%.
Gloomer, first class, reporting to post as requested. (LOL).

Interest rates are the story in real estate now... and they are the story in the foreseeable future.

The current mini-boom in real estate sales/values is the artificial creation of the Bank of Canada's stimulus efforts.

The lowest central bank rate in history has Canadians back on the home-buying binge re-creating rising prices and multiple offers from the bubble years. All despite the fact that we are in the middle of the greatest recession since the Great Depression.

But it is these very interest rates that are dooming many buyers who are making the worst financial decision of their entire lives by buying right now.

The Bank of Canada has lured them into a Capital Trap.

The first key concept here is that a house is only worth what someone can afford to pay for it. The second key concept is that very, very few people buy a house with cash.

The vast majority of real estate purchases are financed with mortgages-- with debt.

And that debt is lent to homebuyers at a rate of interest... a rate that is currently at historic lows. But those rates are about to change, dramatically.

We've all read about the $2 trillion US Federal deficit for this fiscal year. The US has an exploding national debt it must service. Combine that with every other government on the planet (yes, even the Chinese government) who are anxious to borrow huge sums of money to fund their exploding deficit spending and you have an emerging captital quandry.

And don't forget the corporations, local governments, agencies and real estate buyers who want to borrow money.

The point is: the demand for surplus capital far exceeds the supply of global surplus capital.

And as the voracious US government demand for debt servicing continues to grow, surplus money looking for a home is drying up even as the demand for surplus capital skyrockets.

The net result is that interest rates will have to rise - and soon.

While it is impossible to predict exact dates, simple laws of supply and demand dictate that rates will rrise and rise steeply as the shortfall between what governments want to borrow and what's available to borrow becomes visible (not to mention private demand for capital).

Most observers agree rates will double from the current market rate of about 4% to at least 8-9%.

In fact last week the govenor of the Bank of Canada (Mark Carney) warned that "Ultra-low interest rates will not last forever and Canadians should be preparing for the day when their borrowing costs eventually return to more normal levels."

Canada's historic 'normal' is 8%. That represents more than a doubling of current rates.

While real estate prices can be set to whatever level the seller desires, the value of a house will eventually settle to the price the buyers can actually afford.

And since since very, very few people buy a house with cash, when interest rates double, house prices will drop in half, regardless of any other conditions.

Interest rates are driving the buying frenzy/mini-boom now. And shortly interest rates will drive the market collapse.

Charles Hugh Smith (www.oftwominds.com) has produced these charts to demonstate the see-saw relationship between housing prices and interest rates.



In the graph above, a low interest rate (in this case 4.5%) will produce a monthly mortgage payment of $1,850 on a $500,000 mortgage.

But if the interest rates doubles, in this case to 9%, then...



... then a monthly payment of $1,850 will only allow a buyer to assume a $250,000 mortgage.

Which brings us back to the original issue: "The value of a house will eventually settle to the price that buyers can actually afford."

In the absence of a vibrant economy that generates more income for buyers to assume larger mortgages at higher rates, buyers are forced to reduce the size of a mortgage they can assume.

And a voracious demand for global capital is on the cusp of forcing interest rates back to historic norms (if not higher), it means a return to 'normal' interest rate levels.

And that will wipe out the market for average Vancouver homes that sell in the current bubble inflated $800,000 to $1.5 million range.

Buyers will only be able to afford mortgages at half the current amounts... a stalled economic recovery will guarantee this.

(lower, if rates spike to 11% or higher)

Canadians snapping up $600,000 plus mortgages today because they can 'finally' afford them with these historic low interest rates of 3% are making the worst financial decision of their entire lives.

Not only will 'normal' interest rates reduce other homes to half of what they paid for theirs... when these Canadians go to renew their mortgages after their 1-5 year term expires... they will be in a massive underwater position and they will default on their own mortgages.

This mini-boom is only guarenteeing a spectacular crash.

It is unavoidable.
 

FunSugarDaddy

New member
Aug 15, 2008
1,110
5
0
Interest rates aren't likely to dramatically increase and most people have locked in fixed 5 year rates, so if it's a problem it's down the road. The central banks had little choice but to do this to avoid a deflationary spiral similar to what happened in Japan, which took over 10 years to correct. But the big issue going forward is as the US consumer is forced to save more, what replaces this spending within the economy? Short-term government stimulus can only be used until about next year and the long term costs of increasing debt to GDP could have lingering consequences.

But I do think house prices are too high relative to what the average wage earner can afford, and as baby boomers age, they'll likely want to cash out of their homes and downsize in order to financial their retirement.

And as mentioned having a cap rate of 2-3% isn't a long term sustainable situation either, but having said that it's been this way on the lower mainland for about 20 years and investors have been buying on pure speculation that the prices will continue to rise. This is not really a great long term strategy.

As for long term interest rates you can't just pick a number out of thin air (ie 8%) it largely depends on future expectations of inflation. And there's also a substitution effect you're completely ignoring. Yes governments are borrowing more, but this is partially offset by that fact consumers, particularly American consumers are borrowing far less. So it's more of a shift in borrowing from consumer to government rather than an absolute rise in borrowing. And it appears that unemployment is going to remain high for the forseeable future, which will also tend to dampen interest rates, as generally speaking, most people who are unemployed don't go out and get loans.
 

Krustee

Banned
Nov 9, 2007
1,567
11
0
I apologize. I didn't realize escorts were not supposed to express intelligent viewpoints on topics unrelated to escorting. I'll just go back to talking about cum, dick and boobies. After all, it's obviously the only thing I know anything about.
:D
Well, you do have the following credentials:
B.Bj, M.Sog, Fs.D

:D
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts