What's Wrong With Text Apps?

[VanCityNewb]

I'm not sure what you mean by litigate? OP asked a question about text apps being banned and the reason given was because they can't link it to an identity. I said this logic is flawed because neither can a pay-as-you-go burner phone. However, If you a vetting people based on caller ID, that's a different story, and that's fair enough. I understand why an SP would do this and I don't blame you or discourage you for doing that. I'm only trying to share information with other people so we all understand the situation better.

But let's be honest, there are numerous valid reasons why a client would hide their identity and keep it private. You can dismiss it as paranoia, but really it's about being prudent and wise about your data. If you've got nothing to hide maybe it's because you don't have much value to your name. Personally, I work in the entertainment business, so there's no way I'll give you digital copies of my ID or my real phone number. It's out of the question. Here's why:

SPs might mishandle my ID, exposing me to identity theft or blackmail. My ID contains my home address, that makes me vulnerable to home theft or even to stalking. If my identity is leaked or mishandled, it can lead to social stigma. While it may be normalized here on PERB, sexwork is highly taboo in Canada. Having my ID exposed greatly affects my current and future employment opportunities. Selling sex is legal, but buying sex is still highly illegal. A first-time offense can lead to up to 5 years in prison, no joke. So being linked to sex work can have serious legal and social repercussions, especially for people in the public sphere. I wish there was a better way to vet, I really do.

Working in the entertainment biz also, I say that's all pretty silly. If you similarly vet the ladies you see, it's usually pretty obvious that they're using this information for their safety, rather than to go out blasting people, which would open themselves up to the same scrutiny. Supplying this information to unknown random people on any Leolist ad you reply to is obviously dumb and worlds apart from professional ladies who base their income on their reputation, reviews and repeat clients. They're not going to throw that all away just to randomly expose some guy for no real gain, and throw away a lot of business. That's just silly. While I've never supplied this info, there are plenty of professional ladies here, like Rina, that I'd gladly supply this info to. People simply talking bad about you, isn't even remotely comparable to the very real and obvious physical dangers that these ladies put themselves up for, every time they take on a new client. It's not even in the same ballpark.

Nobody is saying that screening out apps is a foolproof method to safeguard yourself, only that it cuts down the risks and flushes out much of the undesirables. One tool in the toolbox to help keep themselves safe.

 

[Rollingstar]

So in the end of the day, a provider’s screening process does not accept textapp as a booking number, it’s her body her rules. If you’re using a text app to protect yourself (understandably but goes both ways) then move on to another provider that doesn’t have this screen process. If your really interesting on seeing her youll have to jump some hoops… I have didn’t want to send my govt ID but I really wanted to see her so I ended up sending my shit, that’s it that’s all.

 

[kelcaine]

Texting apps are very unreliable, most fake bookings are done through texting apps, and many of us don’t book through them for safety reasons. Texting apps often only work on wifi, may not receive or send messages, may get messages hours later, may not get longer messages or stop working completely.

There are people I have seen or have contacted me I don’t want to see for my safety. These are people who may have hurt colleagues or myself or were a very bad experience. These people could use a texting app to get around that.

People who have booked but were a no show who refuse to may my no show fee could use a texting app to get around paying this fee, where some people have tried to do this. Someone who doesn’t show up for an appointment and decline to pay a no show fee doesn’t respect our time or money, which many of us don’t want in a client.

As previously mentioned if someone assaults us and we want to pursue charges, with a texting app we need the police to order the texting company to find their actual contact information which would warrant a crime they would pursue. I have known of colleagues viciously attacked by men using texting apps. There was one man who put 3 colleagues in the hospital using a texting app in Ontario not long ago. He got away with it using the text app.

As far as your privacy, I can’t see why any provider/companion would do anything nefarious with ones personal phone number or information, where we invest thousands of dollars per month into our business, time to build a good reputation to risk losing thousands or even our livelihood. Aside from some of us feeling it unethical to do these things it would be a horrible business decision.

As far as what one does for a living or worrying about your privacy being compromised, myself and may others in this industry have had high profile clients, many on the public eye, celebrities, professional athletes etc as clients who have given us full names and used their personal phone numbers. We would not compromise their privacy or anyone’s.

This is just the basics why most of us won’t use texting apps to book. The bottom line is it’s for our safety and to not waste our time. Yes people can have burner and phones and use other ways to contact us and book, but not booking through texting apps does decrease safety issues.

 

[Noob888]

OMG.

In this thread, the discussion about virtual phone texting apps has become an echo chamber of misinformation, ignorance, and personal opinion instead of facts. One can use a virtual phone number (text) app as long as they have cellular data. This is not the same as Wi-Fi.

It’s curious how burner phones—typically bought by those who can afford them—are seen as more acceptable than virtual phone numbers, which are free or low-cost. This double standard is hypocritical, especially since both burner phones and virtual phone numbers can be used for the same nefarious activities. If a client's intent is to harm a provider, it won't make any difference if they use a burner phone or virtual phone text app.

What’s particularly alarming is the intense hostility directed at virtual phone numbers (texting apps). The level of vitriol and blanket condemnation is unhinged, often driven by a few negative experiences that unfairly skew opinions.

It's baffling how the group here, for the most part, are unaware virtual phone numbers leave a digital fingerprint, providing a traceable record, whereas burner phones, especially the basic models with no internet or data capabilities, can be virtually impossible to track, particularly if purchased with cash. The inconsistent approach of rejecting communication from virtual numbers while accepting those from burner phones is dysfunctional.

At the end of the day, it's up to the provider to set her own rules. Whining about isn't going to help. Choose another and move on. If the simps would gladly disclose their personal information to prove their legitimacy, they’re welcome to do so. But not everyone is willing to reveal their government ID and phone number, especially when they might have much more to lose than a provider dealing with fake bookings.

Privacy is a personal choice, and it shouldn’t be subjected to such extreme scrutiny. However, it seems very few are taking privacy seriously until something disastrous happens to them.

 

[kelcaine]

Kelaine, I trust that you, Harmony, Naughty Knickers or Rina are well-intentioned, but privacy risks go beyond just the integrity of the provider. There are numerous scenarios where information could end up in the wrong hands. You could lose your phone, forget your laptop at a coffee shop, store IDs on an insecure web server, be the victim of a phishing attack, get robbed, etc. I'm skeptical that any independent provider encrypts this data. Whereas companies like Tryst or LinkedIn have stringent privacy measures and policies, and this level of security isn't present with SPs.

While you might not consider identity fraud to be a serious risk, a single negative experience can have a lasting impact. Just as Naughty Knickers’s experience with her ribs being broken was a deeply traumatic event that changed her life. Personally, I'll never risk encountering a stalker again. And yes it's true that the physical risks for SP's isn't in the same ballpark as for clients. The flip side is, the financial risk isn't in the same ballpark for SP's. Right now, this very moment, some potential client is getting ripped off on Leolist. The risks are real. And newbies think with the wrong head.

But I completely understand and support your use of screening measures, by banning text apps and requiring ID. I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t use these methods — they are important! My intention is to explain why I personally choose not to share my ID and why I use a burner phone. When I post on PERB, I’m mostly aiming to inform newcomers who might not fully grasp the risks. If you’re comfortable with the risks, that’s perfectly great! Everyone has their own boundaries and preferences. The ocean is vast and there are plenty of options for everyone.

Which is why people should do their homework before booking a provider/companion and not use a texting app when contacting someone who is established in the industry, because yes obviously it’s risky to book with a random ad from LL where there’s no information elsewhere about that provider. Texting app or not that’s still risky.

But with the logic of someone’s information being compromised by a provider, this information could be compromised by a non SWer, a small business or anyone. I have had 2 credit cards in a year with fraudulent activity on it where I had to prove it was not me and get new cards. Scammers are out there everywhere, mostly not in SW though. This is also one reason myself and many colleagues of mine have separate work phones we only use for work and keep separate from our personal use. It’s more safe for us and our clients.

Maybe it would be a good idea to educate newbies about doing their homework on who they book, so they can feel assured the provider they book with will be professional in every way, including with discretion, and respecting their clients privacy. So few of us who have established themselves in the industry book through texting apps, and many who will book with them are the scammers and frauds to look out for.

 

[Noob888]

I think most providers on this thread don’t accept burner phones either - likely because they rely on caller ID for screening, which doesn’t provide a name for these types of numbers. For clients who do provide identification, I don't think it's fair to criticize them— everyone has their own preferences. As long as everybody understands the risks. For me it's frustrating because there are many service providers I’d love to book with, but the privacy concerns surrounding ID become a significant obstacle for me. It's too bad there isn't a third party that could vet people while still maintaining privacy.

People are often too trusting with their personal information, freely handing it over, especially when sex is involved. Do they know or understand the risks? Some do, many don't or simply don't care.

I feel it's reasonable to criticize those who act impulsively and overlook potential risks, which can lead to adverse outcomes. Stubbornness or thinking with the "other head" rather than acknowledging and addressing risks often drives these decisions, as demonstrated by many comments showing an “I have nothing to hide” mentality. Being critical of these people is justified.

Again, the messaging seems to be that a provider feels secure or more secure, as long as the client (John) doesn't use a texting/virtual number. If they use a burner phone, it's ok too because they probably won't know it's a burner phone anyway because a burner phone will provide the caller ID name and number. Apps like TrueCaller also show the caller ID plus the carrier.

As you have stated earlier, the provider's device could be lost or stolen, leading to risks like blackmail or extortion. I wouldn't expect them to quickly delete your information from their phone, if at all, as a preventative measure should you send it to them electronically as part of their screening.

But let’s be real: In today’s world, where accountability is often avoided and especially in an echo chamber, such criticism is better kept to oneself.

 

[vivalasvegas]

What’s wrong with a texting app, is that it signals with blaring red lights thay you are too cheap to get a burner phone. Texting apo is not a real number. Burner phone is a real number you pay for. One notch above primordial sludge. Step up or step out.

It means no such thing. Text app users aren't cheap, I simply seek privacy and convenience. A texting app is convenient because it can reside on your phone and can direct the texts into email, I can even respond by email into text. I use text apps when I'm dealing with salespeople or if I'm signing up for something that I don't want endless follow-up calls about. A burner phone is another device that has to be charged, carried, stored...to me someone carrying around two phones looks like they're up to no good.
The point I was trying to make in the original post was that I had made all the arrangements with a SP using my app, we had a nice exchange and were set to go. If it hadn't been for a jpg not transmitting she would have had a full paying potentially longterm customer arrive and treat her with respect, and would have proved that the no-app policy was a non-issue.
She promotes herself as a "professional" but turned into an angry hate-filled disrespectful person the moment she learned this fact.
In her takedown of me by voice, she told me to send a deposit or go away. I guess I won't be visiting the Austrian city that starts with a V in Surrey anytime soon!!!!

 

[LADY-LYRAH]

What's the big deal? I use a text app because my main number doesn't give me complete privacy, it's a one-click open window into my entire work and personal life, which I prefer to keep private. There are some SP's who won't communicate with a text app, which is their choice of course. But the question is why not? Presumably it's a safety issue, but to use a text app I need to register it with an email address that is tied to an IP address and a device. I could easily be identified with my text app number. My text app was downloaded using my Apple ID. These connections provide security to whoever might be concerned about a client's identity. One time a SP who doesn't accept text apps wanted to do a screening call to make sure I was all good and called me on my text app, we had a nice call which proved nothing to disprove that I wasn't on a text app! So we had a rendezvous. I was texting with a SP yesterday and had everything arranged but the price menu was a JPG that didn't come thru the text app, so she asked if I was using one (after 5 rounds of correspondence and just making final arrangements). When I said yes, she flipped out, called me up on the app and ripped a strip off me for wasting her time. WTF? I was stunned at the response. I was simply being honest and didn't deserve that! So again, what's the big deal with text apps????

honestly for me personally…… I don’t care how a person communicates with me as long as they’re respectful & follow my rules. Text apps, emails, blocked numbers, smoke signals ….. whatever. I may ask you to call me & I’m not bothered if a person feels more secure/comfortable blocking their number.

Anyone new will be paying a deposit though if we haven’t met before. there are many ways to to this without having it traced back to you. Example - purchase a pre paid visa or master card or Amazon card. Uber works as well & you’ll have to figure out how to get the PIN codes to me so I can load my accounts. Do I ask for deposits 100% of the time ? No I don’t. A high percentage of the time I do

now I know that some might get the impression that I dont care about my safety by operating the way that I do. That’s not the case at all. I’m just not completely sold on the concept that having someone’s real number equates to more safety.

I generally assess inquiries as independent cases.
If I get a bad vibe I won’t go near it.

I feel like a big issue with text apps is that it opened a flood gate for time wasters & straight up dip shits who get their kicks out of trying to fuck with us in some way.

 

[Noob888]

I feel like a big issue with text apps is that it opened a flood gate for time wasters & straight up dip shits who get their kicks out of trying to fuck with us in some way.

Back in the day, these time wasters would use quasi-public phones at various locations (where long distance was blocked) and make those calls. But even with a burner phone, they can still do the same, especially if they have some extra minutes to burn before ditching the SIM card.

Unlike the safety argument, your concerns do have merit. Over the past few years, many text apps have evolved. Nowadays, they often require a Google account or Apple ID for sign-up and have introduced advanced measures to enhance security. For instance, if your virtual number is blocked too many times, your account can be disabled.

 

[kelcaine]

honestly for me personally…… I don’t care how a person communicates with me as long as they’re respectful & follow my rules. Text apps, emails, blocked numbers, smoke signals ….. whatever. I may ask you to call me & I’m not bothered if a person feels more secure/comfortable blocking their number.

Anyone new will be paying a deposit though if we haven’t met before. there are many ways to to this without having it traced back to you. Example - purchase a pre paid visa or master card or Amazon card. Uber works as well & you’ll have to figure out how to get the PIN codes to me so I can load my accounts. Do I ask for deposits 100% of the time ? No I don’t. A high percentage of the time I do

now I know that some might get the impression that I dont care about my safety by operating the way that I do. That’s not the case at all. I’m just not completely sold on the concept that having someone’s real number equates to more safety.

I generally assess inquiries as independent cases.
If I get a bad vibe I won’t go near it.

I feel like a big issue with text apps is that it opened a flood gate for time wasters & straight up dip shits who get their kicks out of trying to fuck with us in some way.

It is really unfortunate how many people use texting apps to make fake bookings as I do really believe many use them for privacy reasons and not for nefarious purposes. It is also why one thing I offer people using text apps an option to verify with their PERB handle too. Sadly I have had people fake book so much, including other providers making fake bookings, and people I know outside or SW who have outed me trying to stalk me, to find my incall to make fake bookings or just to waste my time.

Overall we should always do what we feel comfortable when it comes to booking and screening. I also go by my intuition when booking too, because I do believe when we listen to our gut feeling/intuition it’s usually right.

 

[Equity Market investor]

A bit off course here but way back, a few ladies accepted bookings through DM's here on Perb. Especially from long term members and with ample posts etc etc.

Just saying that that was one method ladies had. Side note... I took that route quite a few times back then. I would then let her know I would contact her with my " real " phone with a review as per our conversation through Perb dm. I also created a secret word in the DM which I then related by phone when I contacted her. That was she knew I was real. That always worked well.

After that our communication worked out great and I had, on occasion invite if I was available thru DM lol. . It was more of a " fyi "

It is really unfortunate how many people use texting apps to make fake bookings as I do really believe many use them for privacy reasons and not for nefarious purposes. It is also why one thing I offer people using text apps an option to verify with their PERB handle too. Sadly I have had people fake book so much, including other providers making fake bookings, and people I know outside or SW who have outed me trying to stalk me, to find my incall to make fake bookings or just to waste my time.

Overall we should always do what we feel comfortable when it comes to booking and screening. I also go by my intuition when booking too, because I do believe when we listen to our gut feeling/intuition it’s usually right.

 

[LADY-LYRAH]

A bit off course here but way back, a few ladies accepted bookings through DM's here on Perb. Especially from long term members and with ample posts etc etc.

Just saying that that was one method ladies had. Side note... I took that route quite a few times back then. I would then let her know I would contact her with my " real " phone with a review as per our conversation through Perb dm. I also created a secret word in the DM which I then related by phone when I contacted her. That was she knew I was real. That always worked well.


After that our communication worked out great and I had, on occasion invite if I was available thru DM lol. . It was more of a " fyi "

Perb used to be a go to place to “ vet “ clients.

 

[BULLZ]

Just a heads up: when you message a provider who mentions "no text apps" using a text app, about 75% of the time, they may not even realize you're using one and will still let you go ahead and book. From my experience atleast.

I do have a burner phone, but sometimes I don’t have it with me, or I need to pick up a prepaid credit card to add minutes. Basically, I can be a bit lazy about it.

Alternatively, you can verify your real number using your burner (or regular) number and request to shift the conversation to a text app. I've never encountered any issues with providers or agencies regarding that.

You can easily create a burner email as well.

 

[BULLZ]

Working in the entertainment biz also, I say that's all pretty silly. If you similarly vet the ladies you see, it's usually pretty obvious that they're using this information for their safety, rather than to go out blasting people, which would open themselves up to the same scrutiny.

I have seen a few providers posting and blasting guys on the "are we dating the same guy" facebook pages 😂

 

[kelcaine]

Just a heads up: when you message a provider who mentions "no text apps" using a text app, about 75% of the time, they may not even realize you're using one and will still let you go ahead and book. From my experience atleast.

I do have a burner phone, but sometimes I don’t have it with me, or I need to pick up a prepaid credit card to add minutes. Basically, I can be a bit lazy about it.

Alternatively, you can verify your real number using your burner (or regular) number and request to shift the conversation to a text app. I've never encountered any issues with providers or agencies regarding that.

You can easily create a burner email as well.

That is actually one of the things I tell people who contact me on texting apps, that they can verify their actual phone number through a text or call where we continue the conversation and only communicate through the texting app, to respect their privacy. Many still won’t accept this, and I always appreciate those who do, and understand my safety concerns.

Actually this has been a mostly good conversation on this topic from the side of clients and providers. It’s nice to have these conversations here, where we can hopefully both get some insight from each side.