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MissingOne

Don't just do something, sit there.
Jan 2, 2006
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... The Multi-Nationals (BP, Chevron, Shell, Exxon) seem to be willing to deplete their existing wells just as fast as Saudi Arabia is depleting their Oil Fields...
Perhaps there is some fear that alternative energy sources will become increasing viable in the coming years and reduce the demand for fossil fuels? They might reason that they'd best sell the stuff while there is still a market?

Just idle speculation. I pay attention to other resource commodities because my living depends on them, but I don't follow energy markets much.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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Perhaps there is some fear that alternative energy sources will become increasing viable in the coming years and reduce the demand for fossil fuels? They might reason that they'd best sell the stuff while there is still a market?

Just idle speculation. I pay attention to other resource commodities because my living depends on them, but I don't follow energy markets much.
That's where I'm having a problem. The big energy companies only use Global Warming and Environment when it's to their advantage. $20 Oil wouldn't seem to be to their advantage. For years, Saudi Arabia was the guarantor of $80 Oil. Below $80 and they would cut production, Above $80 and they would increase production. That changed in 2014, now they are pumping to their maximum capacity and are even drilling new wells into their existing Oil Fields. The Saud Royal Family has announced that they are selling shares in Aramco. That would have been unthinkable even a year ago. The monopoly that the Saud Royal Family held on Saudi Arabian Oil is/was the source of their power. If ever "Money Talks" was true, it was true in Saudi Arabia. I'm convinced that the Saud Royal Family has a plan to relocate.

Then, this morning when I went to Energy Matters and started looking at charts, I found that Qatar, Kuwait and UAE are also pumping and drilling like mad.

All of these are essentially dictatorships, all have had revolutionary groups since the "Arab Spring", all have been suppressing dissent pretty brutally for the past few years.

Then you have the fact that "Big Oil" essentially is not drilling new wells, it may be that they aren't even exploring for new Oil Fields. Little and Medium Oil is producing out of the Shale deposits, but is not drilling new wells. With Shale Oil you can't close the well's production and wait for a better price. The nature of fracking is that if you don't pump it, it self depletes. However Shale Oil is limited lifetime for any of it's wells. A lifetime of 2 years is about it. The Shale Oil on the market now, won't be there in 2018 or so.

The "Arab Spring" nations are basically only producing intermittently. And, it's only about 200,000 barrels per day when they are producing. The various factions keep blowing stuff up.

Iraq is also only producing intermittently. They were at 3.2 mbpd, dropped to nothing in 2010 - 2012 and the reporting is spotty since then. Spell that ISIS. A combination of blowing stuff up and fighting over production and processing facilities.

Brazil is barely producing 100,000 barrels per day. Part of that is the change of government and part of it is really poor management of the wells. When your wells are on a seabed 6,000 meters down, and the Oil layer is drilled a further 12,000 meters - you don't draw off the Natural Gas first. You need that Natural Gas to assist the Oil on it's way to the top of the wellhead. "Big Oil" is going to have to be welcomed in to use some of their advanced Oil recovery methods. So far, that's not politically or economically possible.

Russia can and has closed up wells to wait for a better price, China is still producing at about 3mbpd, drilling like mad and even building Islands in the South China Sea.

Besides there being a humungus amount of produced Oil in storage, (about 2 years worth), there are massive known reserves - including the Oil Sands that are or are going to be closed in until there is a better price.

I didn't address alternative energy earlier.

China is doing alternative energy in a big way. Especially Solar Water Heaters that are heavily subsidized by the government.
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059983772




What China isn't doing is Solar Electric. They make almost all of the world's Solar Electric panels, but they don't get enough pay back to make them worthwhile in China. I was told that a Solar Water Heater pays the consumer cost and the government subsidy in less than a year. In Beijing, which is north of Vancouver. As I saw in China, Solar Water Heaters can be put on any roof that faces West, South or East. In Beijing itself, they are on Apartment balconies.

China is also doing wind turbines, but wind is not an appreciable amount of the electricity that is produced in China. It's about 2.78% of electricity generated. Here's a picture of the Wind Farm at Xinjiang.



Germany, Norway and Sweden are all doing Wind Farms.

I really don't know why North America is so against Wind Farms and Solar Water Heaters and so in love with the idea of Solar Electric Panels. Solar Electric Panels are the one that doesn't work economically enough to be worthwhile.
 
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sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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The race is on to become the Bank that manages the Saudi Arabia Aramco IPO
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...en-among-banks-likely-to-win-saudi-aramco-ipo

http://business.financialpost.com/n...public-it-will-blow-your-mind?__lsa=ce3d-18fa

Personally, there is noway that I'd buy Aramco shares. Too much chance of it being a shell with considerable production and processing assets and no Oil reserve. It's in what I think is going to be a really unstable part of the world. I'm wondering just how much debt Aramco will be holding when the IPO is completed.
 
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westwoody

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
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Westwood
The Saudi population is NOT going to rise up in revolt because some Shia cleric and bunch of related guys who are promoting ideals they don't approve of got executed. That might happen in a place like Bahrain, but not in Saudi Arabia.
The Saudi masses couldn't care less, you are right.

But they do care that the royal family holds all the wealth and flaunts it constantly. The royal family blabs on about righteousness but everyone knows they are evil and corrupt. They call themselves guardians of the two holy sites but are no better than the infidels. That is why Osama bin Laden turned against them, they are hypocrites and everyone knows it. Westerners are not allowed unescorted travel so they do not see the poverty in the rural areas. There are lots of people who have little to lose by joining ISIS or Al Qaeda.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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And it just keeps getting worse. Shanghai has dropped another 5.3% and the Chinese government has announced currency restrictions. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-capital-controls-foreign-impact-1.3395524

Today I'm just going to put pillows over my head and completely avoid watching the stock market.

Jen Gerson at the National Post has an article on what's happening with Saudi Arabia. She reports that the Saud Royal Family itself is divided. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...and-the-fall-may-have-arrived?__lsa=4715-36e1
January 11, 2016
Jen Gerson: Saudi Arabia is like Mad Max before the fall … and the fall may have arrived
By Jen Gerson
What happens to Saudi Arabia when a barrel of oil drops to $35 from $120?

It's hard to pick a favourite between a country that executes 47 alleged terrorists - including political prisoners - and a rogue state that actively supports terrorist brigades across the Middle East. But here we are.

Saudi Arabia recently conducted its largest mass execution in 30 years. Among the most notable fatalities was Nimr Baqir al-Nimr, a Shia who has oft been critical of the Saudi government. Never missing an opportunity stress its own importance in the region, protests soon began in Iran, where Saudi diplomatic posts were attacked. The two countries broke off diplomatic ties; several other Middle Eastern countries followed Saudi Arabia's lead, isolating Iran. Iran then accused Saudi Arabia of attacking its embassy in Yemen. It's the worst diplomatic crisis the Middle East has seen in … a few weeks, perhaps.

Saudi Arabia, long an uncomfortable Western ally, is on the verge of an economic shift that may result in a more stable nation and an emerging regional hegemon. Or - as its more frantic critics worry - the country is on the cusp of protracted decline and eventual state failure. These mass beheadings and political spit matches with Iran are worrying omens.

Or - as its more frantic critics worry - the country is on the cusp of protracted decline and eventual state failure

I lived in nearby Abu Dhabi for several years. There issues there are similar. I was there when the oil price was still booming; glass condos were growing along the Sheikh Zayed highway faster than tulips in camel poop. But even then, the whole place had the vibe of a Mad Max movie before the fall; the growth was too frantic, too quick. The grand portraits of the regional sheikhs had an Ozymandias-like air. These are ghost economies sustained on oil and debt, desperately attempting to diversify before the wells run dry. Their comparative political stability is rooted in that same system - ethnic nationals are rewarded for their political quiescence with land, marriage bonuses, debt relief, over-paid public-sector salaries, housing and subsidized fuel, food and consumer goods. Very few citizens work in the private sector - the public sector is simply too lucrative. As a result, these states are over-reliant on migratory labour to fill everything from construction to journalism jobs.

One shouldn't underestimate the hold of charismatic leadership, tradition, nor religion, of course. But it's hard to lead a revolution from your Porsche and it's no coincidence that Saudi Arabia offered bonuses and bumped up subsidies in the midst of the Arab Spring.

So what happens to this system when a barrel of oil drops to $35 from $120? In a bid to strangle emerging oil producers in the U.S. and rain on post-sanctions Iran's parade, Saudi Arabia jacked up its own production, prompting the oil drop that is the cause of so much heartache in Alberta of late.

The irony is that Saudi Arabia itself may yet be the nation to suffer the most. Its deficits are now among the largest in the world and it's burning through its vaunted sovereign wealth fund to finance the gap. In a recent Economist interview, Saudi Arabia's deputy crown prince, Muhammad bin Salman, discussed reducing subsidies, privatizing state assets and - egad - introducing taxes. Salman even conceded that the kingdom is considering an IPO for Aramco, the most wealthy and secretive oil company in the world.

When asked whether Saudi Arabia was about to face a Thatcherite revolution, Salman responded: "Most certainly."

And this shift is more than just economic. The Crown Prince himself is the vanguard of a generational handover; power is passing from the sons to the grandsons of Ibn Saud. Salman is of an age educated in liberal economic values, although still rooted in conservative Islamic traditions. This generational shift is reflected in the population as well - 70 per cent of Saudi Arabia is now under the age of 30.

Saudi Arabia's increasingly robust and violent foreign policy - particularly in the face of its ancient enmity with Iran - is also a reflection of this evolution. Recent fighting with Houthi rebels in Yemen, for example, is largely considered a proxy war between the two states. Expect these rivalries to grow more heated and public as the leviathan of the United States retreats from the Middle East. Saudi Arabia isn't buying those contentious Canadian light armoured vehicles for show.

The country is going to have to dismantle the most lavish aspects of its comfortable welfare state just as an enormous wave of young people comes of age. Its economy and, more importantly, its culture simply may not be able to handle the reforms to come. Whether the future of the Kingdom is one of political maturity or outright rebellion is the question. But there are early signs of discontent, with reports of letters circulating among the sprawling royal family calling for overthrow of the reigning monarch.

All anyone can predict at this point is that Saudi Arabia will be one of the canaries in the coal mine in the order of the world to come. The Liberals may do well to reconsider shipping weapons there for a few years.

National Post
jgerson@nationalpost.com
Twitter.com/JenGerson
Both the Globe and Mail and CTV are reporting that Business is suspending Hiring and Banks are suspending new credit to Businesses.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...-of-commodity-price-rout-boc/article28105709/
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/hiri...vels-since-recession-bank-of-canada-1.2732113

BC has announced that it is opposing the Kinder Morgan twinning of their pipeline from Edmonton to Burnaby. Not really a surprise. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ns-pipeline-expansion-report/article28106524/

An in an example of how dumb can a company's management be - Canadian Oil Sands Management plans to continue to hold out for more money from Suncor. With dropping Oil prices, with you "shutting in your operations" are you crazy? With no pipeline to carry your product, $7.50 a share is a gift. http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/cana...alls-for-suncor-to-disclose-results-1.2731946
 
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wetnose

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2003
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South Vancouver
A conference revealed how much Oil is in storage. 3 Billion barrels not including Oil that is Shut-In. Since the world uses about 89,000 barrels per day or about 35 million barrels per year - we are looking at a long time before there will be pressure to raise Oil prices.
The US has always had at least 1.5B barrels in the system.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WTTSTUS1&f=W

Out of that, 713M is held in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and the rest held as an operational float. Now it's up to 2B barrels.

The US has net imports of 270M barrels a month so it has approx 2 months of surplus oil in excess of historical norms.

The world doesn't use 35M barrels a year, LOL...maybe back in 1916.

Today, world consumption runs at 96M barrels a DAY or 35B barrels a YEAR.

http://www.iea.org/aboutus/faqs/oil/

Assuming storage is 35% above historical norms, there's approx 800M barrels of oil in storage, which represents 9 (800/35000*365) days of typical usage.

So, yes we do have an excess of production and in storage, but it's not going to take us 23 years (800m/35m) to work through it.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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The US has always had at least 1.5B barrels in the system.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WTTSTUS1&f=W

Out of that, 713M is held in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and the rest held as an operational float. Now it's up to 2B barrels.

The US has net imports of 270M barrels a month so it has approx 2 months of surplus oil in excess of historical norms.

The world doesn't use 35M barrels a year, LOL...maybe back in 1916.

Today, world consumption runs at 96M barrels a DAY or 35B barrels a YEAR.

http://www.iea.org/aboutus/faqs/oil/

Assuming storage is 35% above historical norms, there's approx 800M barrels of oil in storage, which represents 9 (800/35000*365) days of typical usage.

So, yes we do have an excess of production and in storage, but it's not going to take us 23 years (800m/35m) to work through it.
Yes, I read the table incorrectly.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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There are a number of reasons that that is too panicky and a poor idea. I'm not saying that people should be holding Energy Stocks, Mining Stocks or High and Mid Retailers. But, people still need food, people still need clothing.

1. By Selling you automatically lock in losses
2. Every stock sale needs a stock buyer
3. Some stocks are doing very well because of what's happening. eg Oil Tankers - they are all full and steaming in circles.

I think some Banks will come through unscathed, others - well if the Bank is lending in the Oil Patch or to Energy Companies, they may find themselves in trouble.
I think High End and Middle Retailers are going to hurt.
I think that our Real Estate market may get hurt. I say may because our market isn't rational, hasn't been for some time.

So, pretty much take a look at each stock's product, see if it's going to sell when people are reluctant to spend. Take a look at the debt that a company is carrying, they may not be able to survive tight credit and credit is going to tighten up. Take a look at a company's management, some people can manage during tough times, others only looked good because they were in good times.

The Bank of Canada Hiring Survey says that companies are not hiring and are laying people off. Even if a person is holding onto their job, they are going to be nervous.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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I don't know what you do for a living. And it's likely I'll never know. But IMO, you're underpaid sdw. And IMO, if anyone should afford the aging creep standing in your kitchen in his tighty whiteys. It should be you. :)
lol, I'll have you know I wear BLACK tighties. There are people that would say that I'm over paid since I'm an evil Energy company owner.
 

Lupo

New member
Jun 26, 2004
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Banks might be okay but can they afford to keep paying their dividend yield?
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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Banks might be okay but can they afford to keep paying their dividend yield?
There are rumblings that many companies will be suspending dividends. To me, THAT'S a good reason to sell that stock. It's not like this crisis has snuck up on us. Especially for people that market watch and monitor any news that may affect their industry. I can't think of a company that suspended dividends in 2008 and is still around today under the same management governance and ownership. Responding in desperation with quick fixes is a sure sign of a company that is in dire straights financially and has a management team that relies on "good times" to succeed. I owned three Canadian Bank's Shares in 2008, none missed a dividend and I added to my holdings when the panic selling was endemic. All three increased in value through 2011 when I rationalized my portfolio.

I only hold one Canadian Bank share right now because, while the 2008/2009 crisis was kind to Canada, I don't think what is coming is going to be kind. We are already seeing that in Alberta and Saskatchewan. We refused to future proof in the good times because carbon and pollution was everywhere that the politicians looked. (We refused pipelines) Now there is no money for pipelines and the biggest economic driver, the biggest employment creator is "shut in" because it's impossible to move the product to a market willing to buy it.

I think Scotia Bank and CIBC are already in trouble.

HSBC and Ing both have already reduced their footprint in Canada because their Canadian operations were costly with little profit.

I think some retailers like Hudson's Bay are done for, they have never found a profitable business model and are managed by dilettantes. Credit is going to be too tight for unproven management teams to continue to have access.
 

Equity Market investor

energy sector
Apr 9, 2009
1,281
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What are your thoughts on " wealth management " companies like Canaccord Genuity ? Bookie companies are still needed to some degree during any economy woe. Plus, Canaccord, currently, has working outlets all over the world and not just Canada anymore. It's trading about $3 -$4 below book value.
I call Companies such as Canaccord the left side to the banks being in the financial sector.

I agree with your " Food and clothing comment earlier. Costco for example is reaping the benefits. Place is always jammed and it's stock price is sky high :thumb:. Long term chart looks great ;)



There are rumblings that many companies will be suspending dividends. To me, THAT'S a good reason to sell that stock. It's not like this crisis has snuck up on us. Especially for people that market watch and monitor any news that may affect their industry. I can't think of a company that suspended dividends in 2008 and is still around today under the same management governance and ownership. Responding in desperation with quick fixes is a sure sign of a company that is in dire straights financially and has a management team that relies on "good times" to succeed. I owned three Canadian Bank's Shares in 2008, none missed a dividend and I added to my holdings when the panic selling was endemic. All three increased in value through 2011 when I rationalized my portfolio.

I only hold one Canadian Bank share right now because, while the 2008/2009 crisis was kind to Canada, I don't think what is coming is going to be kind. We are already seeing that in Alberta and Saskatchewan. We refused to future proof in the good times because carbon and pollution was everywhere that the politicians looked. (We refused pipelines) Now there is no money for pipelines and the biggest economic driver, the biggest employment creator is "shut in" because it's impossible to move the product to a market willing to buy it.

I think Scotia Bank and CIBC are already in trouble.

HSBC and Ing both have already reduced their footprint in Canada because their Canadian operations were costly with little profit.

I think some retailers like Hudson's Bay are done for, they have never found a profitable business model and are managed by dilettantes. Credit is going to be too tight for unproven management teams to continue to have access.
 

Lupo

New member
Jun 26, 2004
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After 2008 the rebound for banks were quick with massive QE injection into the market. For the TSX I am not sure anything is safe anymore. Even REITs will get hit at some point with retailers not doing well.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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What are your thoughts on " wealth management " companies like Canaccord Genuity ? Bookie companies are still needed to some degree during any economy woe. Plus, Canaccord, currently, has working outlets all over the world and not just Canada anymore. It's trading about $3 -$4 below book value.
I call Companies such as Canaccord the left side to the banks being in the financial sector.

I agree with your " Food and clothing comment earlier. Costco for example is reaping the benefits. Place is always jammed and it's stock price is sky high :thumb:. Long term chart looks great ;)
Wealth Management companies are very much the province of their chief economist and chief trader. If, for any reason, either of these people move on, the company isn't going to perform the same.

So, if the company was doing poorly and they replace their management team, maybe the company will do better. If the company was doing very well and they replace their management team - they seldom do as well as they were doing.

You really have to look at past performance, stability of the management team, what they charge you to invest and ease of reimbursement if you want your money back.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
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I was going through the USDA report today (US Agriculture Department Economic Prediction to 2024) The report is here: http://www.usda.gov/oce/commodity/projections/USDA_Agricultural_Projections_to_2024.pdf

The entire report is worth a read, it's not just Agriculture. It's Oil, Water, Food Production and Economic Outlook among other things. WARNING - this is a US government report and therefore there are Biases and the report takes over a year to write and publish - so, on some things, it's not timely.

You are especially going to see that in the Oil section, they forecast lower Oil prices - BUT - the writer had no idea that Saudi Arabia was going to pump like mad.

I'm going to comment on the tables starting on Page 14. They predict how well economies will do, I'll comment on why they may be wrong on some. In order Best to Worst, first 30.

1. USA
2. China
3. India
4. Japan - there really isn't any way, they owe too much money and have no raw resources of their own.
5. Germany
6. United Kingdom
7. France
8. Brazil - I doubt it, their politics have gone strange
9. Canada
10. Italy
11. Russia
12. Indonesia
13. Mexico - I can't see them in this position, maybe 10 lower
14. Australia - I think they should be higher on the list.
15. Spain - not a chance
16. South Korea - should be higher on the list, if they absorb North Korea in the next few years they will be another Germany
17. Turkey - not a chance, they are heading into civil war
18. Saudi Arabia - not now, who knows who will be in charge in 2024
19. The Netherlands
20. Nigeria - Oil and finally getting a government together
21. Iran - should be higher on list
22. Poland
23. Switzerland
24. Luxembourg - place that corporations store money - too dependent on world economic health
25. Sweden
26. Columbia
27. Taiwan - I think that China will have absorbed them by 2024
28. South Africa
29. Belgium
30. Argentina - should be higher on list

Commodity Predictions http://www.usda.gov/oce/commodity/projections/
Demand Estimates http://www.usda.gov/oce/commodity/wasde/latest.pdf
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
2,187
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Well, the global sell off continues. So another poor day for people that are invested in the markets.

Since people have asked, I thought I'd link the main tools for watching the markets. It's possible to use too many tools, and if you are a Yahoo person, Yahoo duplicates the tools that Google has. There are also tools that your Bank may provide and if you are a client of a brokerage, you will have access to their tools.

Google has a Finance site that is Canadian centric here https://www.google.ca/finance?hl=en&gl=ca It gives you a quick view on the value of the Canadian Dollar and news on the Canadian stocks that are moving.

Google also has a Finance site that is good for tracking world financials: http://www.google.com/finance?hl=en It gives a quick view on news of what is moving

Google also has a Stock Screener that can be used for all markets: https://www.google.ca/finance/stockscreener You set Country, Exchange, Sector and Currency and then set up your filters. I filter for profit, dividend, debt, trading volume, float (number of shares) You want a large float and a large trading volume because you want to easily buy and sell shares. You want the company to be making a profit. You want the company to be paying a dividend. You don't want the company to be financing dividend or operating costs with debt.

There are a number of You Tube Tutorials on using Stock Screeners. I'm linking this one

You can use the sector to screen out sectors that you think are fucked for the next while. So, if you don't want to invest in Oil, just screen out Oil Stocks. Same goes for the retail and manufacturing sectors.

I follow a stock for a while before I buy any. That's easy to do in Google Finance. Just put the company's name in the search bar, choose from the list offered and now you have a link you can go to every day. I find that if you click the 5y button on the chart, you get a quick idea of the direction the listing is going, the news bar gives quick links to recent news on the listing. A few examples:

Exxon
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:XOM&hl=en&ei=JjGZVoCgH4KdiQKP3YCYAQ

Since there is the political talk, O'Leary Canadian Diversified Fund - you probably want to look at his other funds before you even think about voting for him, a few have zeroed. http://www.google.com/finance?q=TSE:ODI.UN&hl=en&ei=QzGZVvCcBoTYiwLihK2gAg

And if you don't think what is happening is bad, look at Walmart who has just announced that they are closing stores
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:WMT&hl=en&ei=WjKZVtmaM9TWiALQ7KK4Aw
 
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sybian

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2014
3,618
960
113
Kamloops B.C.
Jesus....I just moved significant money into the market, the first week of January.
Your a wealth of info SDW.....Maybe I should have hired you to manage the funds.
I was considering paying off my Ranch as that is a gauranteed bonus in my life.
{Yes I meant it when I said it was significant**
I went with quite conservative investments at first then I plan to move into more risk after six months, to let things settle.
My investment advice would be...Watch what I do...And do the exact opposite, and you'll be fine.
 
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