Good for VPD! Any guy who knowingly hires a girl under 18 is a scumbag and deserves what he gets.
Cheers'
J
Cheers'
J
VPD vice posting underage SP ads on escort sites/social media confirmed
- Thread starter PoorGuy
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It serves the purpose of being harmless fun and a turn on. I've had SPs dress up in a schoolgirl uniform for me before but that doesn't make me a pedo. Dressing up as a ghost at Halloween doesn't make me dead or a necropheliac either.
The problem is not that people have fantasies. It's that some people cannot separate them from reality.
Obviously it isn't everyone who watches violent porn that decides to act it out but some do. Same goes for other questionable porn scenarios.
Many peoples fantasies are based on what they see in porn.
And yes, some fantasies are a problem.
And some go to see escorts to escape their reality and live out those fantasies.
This has already happened at least once in the last few years. Maybe not including the fake ID but an agency has been charged. Primarily I think for placing an ad for a minor although there may have been other charges.
This all makes it clear how important the policies of individual police departments are and how important it is to get rid of the idiot Conservative laws dealing with adult sex work.
As the laws are written the VPD could have charged everyone who answered their ad. They could do this with no mention of an under age worker. They could as easily shut down all the agencies and AMPs. The VPD Vancouver and the VPD Victoria have stated that adult consensual activities are a "low priority". It sounds like Montreal has taken the same position. It seems only Vancouver has formalized this with a decent written policy.
As the laws are written the VPD could have charged everyone who answered their ad. They could do this with no mention of an under age worker. They could as easily shut down all the agencies and AMPs. The VPD Vancouver and the VPD Victoria have stated that adult consensual activities are a "low priority". It sounds like Montreal has taken the same position. It seems only Vancouver has formalized this with a decent written policy.
Correcting False Statements from November Post
The November (to yesterday when closed) thread dealing with this sting had some false statements that should not be allowed to stand without correction.
"The legal age of consent in Canada is 16"
This is irrelevant when there is some consideration (money) involved. It is also more complex even when there is no consideration involved.
"Legal age for prostitution is 18", "Federal law says prostitution is not legal with anyone under 18", "Legal age to pay is 18..."
Thanks to the Conservatives there is no "legal age to pay" or to be paid for sexual services in Canada. The penalties are more severe for clients if the worker is under 18. Many (most?) police departments are not enforcing the law with regard to adult consensual activities. Workers are immune to prosecution. At the same time, both sides of the transaction have been criminalized by the Conservatives regardless of age.
"18 y.o. is still considered a child in BC. They cannot give consent to sex work unless approved by a parent/guardian."
At the same time, children in care may be kicked out to fend for themselves when they turn 18. This may be changing but it may also explain why an 18 year old would be working when they should be in school. Support for youth should continue beyond age 18 and we should all be promoting that change.
"Legal age is 19 to be an SP for a licenced agency in Vancouver. 18 is a grey area."
There is no legal age for employment in an agency and there is no legal way to operate a for profit agency. Operating any business that profits from sex work is a criminal offence. There may be some room for argument in the case of a non-profit or COOP but it would be a difficult argument.
I can post the text from the criminal code if there are any questions about what I have said.
Now we know the police are lurking here, how about they do some posting? Don't be shy boys and girls in blue. Lets hear what you have to say.
The November (to yesterday when closed) thread dealing with this sting had some false statements that should not be allowed to stand without correction.
"The legal age of consent in Canada is 16"
This is irrelevant when there is some consideration (money) involved. It is also more complex even when there is no consideration involved.
"Legal age for prostitution is 18", "Federal law says prostitution is not legal with anyone under 18", "Legal age to pay is 18..."
Thanks to the Conservatives there is no "legal age to pay" or to be paid for sexual services in Canada. The penalties are more severe for clients if the worker is under 18. Many (most?) police departments are not enforcing the law with regard to adult consensual activities. Workers are immune to prosecution. At the same time, both sides of the transaction have been criminalized by the Conservatives regardless of age.
"18 y.o. is still considered a child in BC. They cannot give consent to sex work unless approved by a parent/guardian."
At the same time, children in care may be kicked out to fend for themselves when they turn 18. This may be changing but it may also explain why an 18 year old would be working when they should be in school. Support for youth should continue beyond age 18 and we should all be promoting that change.
"Legal age is 19 to be an SP for a licenced agency in Vancouver. 18 is a grey area."
There is no legal age for employment in an agency and there is no legal way to operate a for profit agency. Operating any business that profits from sex work is a criminal offence. There may be some room for argument in the case of a non-profit or COOP but it would be a difficult argument.
I can post the text from the criminal code if there are any questions about what I have said.
Now we know the police are lurking here, how about they do some posting? Don't be shy boys and girls in blue. Lets hear what you have to say.
No sympathy for anyne caught in that sting. Going after those trying to exploit minors is what the police should be using their resources for.
Vancouver Police Department were already very open when they published their policy on sex work (source at VPD site - PDF):
"Sex work involving consenting adults is not an enforcement priority for the VPD.
However, ...
In particular, the VPD views situations involving violence, exploitation, youth, other criminal associations (e.g., street crimes or gang affiliations) or human trafficking as being high risk and therefore a priority for intervention for the safety of the workers and the community."
They cannot tell us directly it's ok to break Criminal Code, so it is already as clear as one may hope. The police don't have all the answers. Nobody does. Canadian court system is the ultimate authority on interpreting the laws, and many provisions were not tested yet. In addition to Criminal Code, there is provincial and municipal legislation.
I made a wrong statement before about a parent/guardian consent. Generally, it is only required by BC Employment Standards Act when employing children under 15. There seem to be no specific rules for the adult entertainment.
It is still true that age 19+ should be the approach for any escort agency in BC (fully legal or not), or individuals. There are extra protections for children. For one, being with a person under 19 at the same premises might allow the police to exercise the "child in immediate danger" clause of BC Child, Family and Community Service Act:
"(1) A police officer may, without a court order, take charge of a child if the police officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the child's health or safety is in immediate danger.
(2) A police officer may, without a court order and by force if necessary, enter any premises or vehicle or board any vessel for the purpose of taking charge of a child under subsection (1) if
(a) the police officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the child's health or safety is in immediate danger..."
That is true if they declare they offer sex for money.
In practice, some escort agencies get licensed as body rub studios or social escort services. They have to comply with the corresponding municipal bylaws.
City of Vancouver, not being unique, has 19+ age limit for people in that kind of businesses.
i just want to say how proud i was when the VPD told me that members of community not only refused service from an under aged person but who also tried to refer the "youth" to the counter exploitation unit and other support services. thank you for confirming my faith in the work that we do.
a couple of things;
i am not sure how much the police actually come here, so please everyone...don't worry....
in terms of whether clients or agencies are responsible for the age checking/ fake ID of a provider; if you have any doubts, walk away. any person involved in the exploitation of a youth could be found criminally responsible. in fact if you "witness "exploitation you are required by the criminal code of canada to report that exploitation or youth at risk. you can do so anonymously via "crime stoppers"
there was mention of the conservatives prostitution regime; in vancouver, the VPD have chosen to use "discretion" - a power given to police on how to "apply" various laws - to NOT enforce against adult consensual sex industry participants - including clients
and there are no "body rub parlours" any more...that license is still on the books in part because we had wanted to use it as the license of choice for "happy endings massage" in the city. we tried to normalize the fee and supported it because it seemed to create a legal space for sex work to occur under the former prostitution laws. now they are known as health enhancement centers.
the city of vancouver has a public policy similar to the vpd known as the sex work response guidelines which states that sex work is NOT a by-law violation and as such not a reason for removal of license or denial of permit. so the HEC's are a safe place to purchase or work in https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/sex-work-response-guidelines.pdf
i know this can all be a little confusing but we made a huge leap with police when they saw the ethical responses to the under age advertiser. yes some were arrested, but as the deputy chief said, the vast majority had no interest after being informed the "worker" was under age.
if people have any other questions about the work we are trying to do, please feel free to ask. things seem to be going along well.
the BC Association of Police Chiefs recently voted to adopt the VPD model of policing across the entire BC region. they have adopted a provincial policy which will apply to 45 police services and the e-division of the rcmp across the entire province. the language is a bit different than our policy but the spirit is there. the language is policing language also so when it's official i will do my best to translate. it also states that each municipality will define the particulars of their policy but within the guidelines created by the over bridging policy...
which means soon, the entire province will be covered by a VPD style policy of (non enforcement / lowest form of enforcement) with adult consensual sex work participants....
i am looking forward to a time of peace and actual work on the safety of the sex working community. it was hard fought for but it looks like it might happen.
there are still alot of problems for im/migrant sex workers. these issues must be addressed...
but i think we will be in a better place to help them if we are stable ourselves....i want to help migrant sex workers but they are facing a whole other series of criminal code provisions and immigration law which makes it very complex. there are great organizations who are fighting on that front and there is still lots to do.
in my mind we are winning this fight...slowly but surely. this system is not perfect but it is showing results and it feels good to see some positive change.
love susie
a couple of things;
i am not sure how much the police actually come here, so please everyone...don't worry....
in terms of whether clients or agencies are responsible for the age checking/ fake ID of a provider; if you have any doubts, walk away. any person involved in the exploitation of a youth could be found criminally responsible. in fact if you "witness "exploitation you are required by the criminal code of canada to report that exploitation or youth at risk. you can do so anonymously via "crime stoppers"
there was mention of the conservatives prostitution regime; in vancouver, the VPD have chosen to use "discretion" - a power given to police on how to "apply" various laws - to NOT enforce against adult consensual sex industry participants - including clients
and there are no "body rub parlours" any more...that license is still on the books in part because we had wanted to use it as the license of choice for "happy endings massage" in the city. we tried to normalize the fee and supported it because it seemed to create a legal space for sex work to occur under the former prostitution laws. now they are known as health enhancement centers.
the city of vancouver has a public policy similar to the vpd known as the sex work response guidelines which states that sex work is NOT a by-law violation and as such not a reason for removal of license or denial of permit. so the HEC's are a safe place to purchase or work in https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/sex-work-response-guidelines.pdf
i know this can all be a little confusing but we made a huge leap with police when they saw the ethical responses to the under age advertiser. yes some were arrested, but as the deputy chief said, the vast majority had no interest after being informed the "worker" was under age.
if people have any other questions about the work we are trying to do, please feel free to ask. things seem to be going along well.
the BC Association of Police Chiefs recently voted to adopt the VPD model of policing across the entire BC region. they have adopted a provincial policy which will apply to 45 police services and the e-division of the rcmp across the entire province. the language is a bit different than our policy but the spirit is there. the language is policing language also so when it's official i will do my best to translate. it also states that each municipality will define the particulars of their policy but within the guidelines created by the over bridging policy...
which means soon, the entire province will be covered by a VPD style policy of (non enforcement / lowest form of enforcement) with adult consensual sex work participants....
i am looking forward to a time of peace and actual work on the safety of the sex working community. it was hard fought for but it looks like it might happen.
there are still alot of problems for im/migrant sex workers. these issues must be addressed...
but i think we will be in a better place to help them if we are stable ourselves....i want to help migrant sex workers but they are facing a whole other series of criminal code provisions and immigration law which makes it very complex. there are great organizations who are fighting on that front and there is still lots to do.
in my mind we are winning this fight...slowly but surely. this system is not perfect but it is showing results and it feels good to see some positive change.
love susie
https://globalnews.ca/news/4886409/vancouver-school-board-trustee-sex-charges-laid/
Saw this video and PERB appears as a site the VPD uses for their investigations, even though it is not named...
Saw this video and PERB appears as a site the VPD uses for their investigations, even though it is not named...
From Global news. Residential school survivor. Take from that what you will.
"...Bacchus said Clement had been considering a run for council last summer but later said he was struggling with mental health issues that had persisted since his time in residential schools and was withdrawing to seek a healing program in his home community."
"...Bacchus said Clement had been considering a run for council last summer but later said he was struggling with mental health issues that had persisted since his time in residential schools and was withdrawing to seek a healing program in his home community."
I do not doubt that VPD looks in and probably did, but that video footage could be off the reporter's computer.
Thumbs up for this! To be honest I was pretty shocked it was only 47 guys, but then I read that the police had so much demand for these underage girls they didn't even have the manpower to catch all the men, and had to turn them away. Not surprising to me at all! I remember walking home by myself along Kingsway in high school, and having adult men pull over every day trying to pick me up. So gross and scary for a young teen. And no I definitely did not look anywhere near legal age. Hopefully they do more of these stings and lock up more of these predators!!
Thanks for sharing your experience Emmy, although it doesn't suprise me, I am sorry you had to experience that.
I think men need to be aware and not dismissive of the dark side of this industry that includes underage and trafficked sex workers.
Also thank you Susi for all the work you do!
It's great to hear that the operation was successful.
My only hope is next time the VPD have more resources to process every pooner who knowingly is going to see an underage girl. These people are sick as evidenced going after young people even though there are thousands of legal age SP's available.
My only hope is next time the VPD have more resources to process every pooner who knowingly is going to see an underage girl. These people are sick as evidenced going after young people even though there are thousands of legal age SP's available.
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