Vancouver Wins Award!!!!

[rick hunter]

The Canada Line makes me laugh so, so hard. I have been taking transit all my life I can easily see where there will be problems in the future. My #1 problem. Station Identification. They all look the same. If each station was colorful and distinct it would make things easier. #2. More upper hand rails on the cars and #3 why oh why did they not build the stations large enough so a third car could be added in the future?

There are so many things about the Canada Line that make no sense.#4 The "WAY OUT" signs. [sarc] Because the word EXIT is sooooo not universal. [/sarc]

It's function over form, yes we could have very pretty stations like in Moscow but that would cost money and I bet you that people would then complain that tax money was being wasted on such a frivolous thing. That's why there are signs at the stations/on the train and an announcement telling you where you are. Just like every other city's transit system. Shocking right?

The Canada Line was projected to carry 100,000 people per day this year. It's carrying around 140,000 ppd already which is what they expected by 2021. So either the planners way underestimated ridership demand or people took to it after trying it out. Is our transit system perfect? No, but neither is any of the one's I've taken around the world.

 

[VanessaofBC]

It's function over form, yes we could have very pretty stations like in Moscow but that would cost money and I bet you that people would then complain that tax money was being wasted on such a frivolous thing. That's why there are signs at the stations/on the train and an announcement telling you where you are. Just like every other city's transit system. Shocking right?

The Canada Line was projected to carry 100,000 people per day this year. It's carrying around 140,000 ppd already which is what they expected by 2021. So either the planners way underestimated ridership demand or people took to it after trying it out. Is our transit system perfect? No, but neither is any of the one's I've taken around the world.

First off, IDK, what all the eye rolling about is above. I am not being argumentative, I am stating my opinion (as we are all allowed to do here).

Yes transportation costs money. Signage costs money. Apparently the escalators were $9m for the Evergreen Line alone. [sarc] But we are gonna sell tickets on an "honor system" because the world is full of honest people!![/sarc] And the whole station announcement and signs...not everyone here SPEAKS English. Not everyone here UNDERSTANDS English, so therefore signage and announcements do not always work. Especially when you have so many people using transit that are travelling through our beautiful city and do not have ENglish as their first language. Or people who immigrated here, or people who are wearing earbuds and do not hear the announcement or there's so many people in the train you cannot find a sign stating the name of the station.

Vancouver is the little city that never wanted to be big. While everything else in the city fluctuates the only CONSTANT in the city is Population increase. It is steadily rising no matter the state of the economy or which party is in power.

I am not saying the transit system should be perfect. I certainly never expect perfection from anything or anyone. But whoever thought the Canada Line would bring Vancouver into the future was so, so wrong.

edit: They are adding 2,800 residential units at Oakridge by 2025. Marine station has seven thats right SEVEN cranes there right now building. Cambie is going to become a towering corridor of residential towers and trains with two cars will be pulling into the station every single minute. I'm not a fortune teller, but something tells me the Canada Line not be able to handle it. Just my incredibly humble opinion.

 

[rick hunter]

First off, IDK, what all the eye rolling about is above. I am not being argumentative, I am stating my opinion (as we are all allowed to do here).

Yes transportation costs money. Signage costs money. Apparently the escalators were $9m for the Evergreen Line alone. [sarc] But we are gonna sell tickets on an "honor system" because the world is full of honest people!![/sarc] And the whole station announcement and signs...not everyone here SPEAKS English. Not everyone here UNDERSTANDS English, so therefore signage and announcements do not always work. Especially when you have so many people using transit that are travelling through our beautiful city and do not have ENglish as their first language. Or people who immigrated here, or people who are wearing earbuds and do not hear the announcement or there's so many people in the train you cannot find a sign stating the name of the station.

Vancouver is the little city that never wanted to be big. While everything else in the city fluctuates the only CONSTANT in the city is Population increase. It is steadily rising no matter the state of the economy or which party is in power.

I am not saying the transit system should be perfect. I certainly never expect perfection from anything or anyone. But whoever thought the Canada Line would bring Vancouver into the future was so, so wrong.

edit: They are adding 2,800 residential units at Oakridge by 2025. Marine station has seven thats right SEVEN cranes there right now building. Cambie is going to become a towering corridor of residential towers and trains with two cars will be pulling into the station every single minute. I'm not a fortune teller, but something tells me the Canada Line not be able to handle it. Just my incredibly humble opinion.

If I have offended you then I apologize but your whole reply was in sarcastic font. That's why we're switching to a smart card system like most of the world to cut down on the fare evasion. I'm not sure what the delay is about since it's the same provider as London's. It works really well there.

Then how do you propose they fix the stations? By painting each a different colour? I'm 100% sure that the 420,000 people riding the 3 skytrain daily don't all know English but they manage to use it. It's like when you go to a foreign country for holiday, not everyone speaks English but everyone manages to find there way.

They managed 220,000 ppd during the Olympics so the trains can handle the traffic. They can make them into 3 or 4 car trains but surprise that would also cost money.

 

[VanessaofBC]

If I have offended you then I apologize but your whole reply was in sarcastic font.

[sarc] Because the word EXIT is sooooo not universal. [/sarc]

[sarc] But we are gonna sell tickets on an "honor system" because the world is full of honest people!![/sarc]

FTR: Just those two lines were meant to be sarcastic. The rest is just MHO.

Have a good day, rick.

~V~

 

[VanessaofBC]

I think that painting the stations different colours would really help. The visual recognition is what helped me when I first started using underground transit as a teenager.
And also, from what I notice, they cannot fit another car on to the trains of the Canada Line, whereas the stations on the Expo/Millennium lines appear as though they could add another car to the train.

I am just not sure why they did not take the best features of the Expo & Millenium line and combine it with other forward thinking "futuristic" ideas to bring the Canada Line into the future.

I do not want to argue, I am just very passionate about the subjects of transportation, infrastructure and traffic congestion. Something needs to be done.

FTR, Translink is also responsible for the upkeep of 5 bridges here in Vancouver.

 

[rick hunter]

Have you seen the Millenium line? And those numbers are conducted by Translink are sketchy at best about Canada line's 140,000 people using it.

Yeah the 99B line is pretty shitty, but, there are alternative ways. And the bus comes frequently enough where you don't have to wait forever. Wanna know what happens if you miss the bus in Surrey or the bus is full after 6:30? You have to wait an hour. And no, it's not because it's going to the boonies. Surrey, despite being on the verge to pass Vancouver's population thanks to Vancouver's hilariously high cost of living, has one train line (versus Vancouver's 3). . . that touches the northern most part in Surrey. Traffic is appalling. What used to take me 10-15 minute 10 years ago takes 40-60 minutes. Surrey needs it way more.

I don't normally ride the Millennium line so I won't comment about that. The few times I have ridden it's been decent full. I'm sure the numbers are peer reviewed, I don't think Translink just pulls a number from thin air and say that's the total ridership. I rode Canada Line on Wednesday at 3:00 and it was already nearly a full train. Even coming back at 10:30 it was around 40% full. I also took it from the airport on Monday around noon and it was around 60% full.

Both a Surrey Expo line extension and a Millennium line extension to UBC need to built but I think the M-Line should go first. That would free up all the buses that now serve 99B and would be redirected to Surrey.

Vanessa they can fit more cars on the C-Line, they just haven't done it yet. They would need to purchase more trains and that costs money. What "futuristic" ideas would you have done? Like a barrier between the platform and the train? Some cities do have them but that is another extra expense. They wanted to build the line as cheaply as possible, that's why it was cut and cover instead of tunneling all the way out to Marine Drive. Yes I know Translink is responsible for some bridges.

Seattle has better looking stations and the overall price tag was higher but the crappy Link isn't fully separated from buses. If there are too many buses in the transit tunnel downtown, the train has to wait for the buses to clear out. Not a very efficient way to run a train.

 

[VanessaofBC]

I don't normally ride the Millennium line so I won't comment about that. The few times I have ridden it's been decent full. I'm sure the numbers are peer reviewed, I don't think Translink just pulls a number from thin air and say that's the total ridership. I rode Canada Line on Wednesday at 3:00 and it was already nearly a full train. Even coming back at 10:30 it was around 40% full. I also took it from the airport on Monday around noon and it was around 60% full.

Both a Surrey Expo line extension and a Millennium line extension to UBC need to built but I think the M-Line should go first. That would free up all the buses that now serve 99B and would be redirected to Surrey.

Vanessa they can fit more cars on the C-Line, they just haven't done it yet. They would need to purchase more trains and that costs money. What "futuristic" ideas would you have done? Like a barrier between the platform and the train? Some cities do have them but that is another extra expense. They wanted to build the line as cheaply as possible, that's why it was cut and cover instead of tunneling all the way out to Marine Drive. Yes I know Translink is responsible for some bridges.

Seattle has better looking stations and the overall price tag was higher but the crappy Link isn't fully separated from buses. If there are too many buses in the transit tunnel downtown, the train has to wait for the buses to clear out. Not a very efficient way to run a train.

Please excuse me if at times I come across as facetious. When I used the word "futuristic" i just mean having ideas and building a system that can take us into the future.

There are problems with crowding, not enough hand railings to hold on while the trian is moving. Colour coded stations would help instantly distinguish one station from the next. Two escalators would be great in case one breaks down. The Compass card will be an interesting item to introduce. It does not stop people from getting on the bus for free and people can jump turnstiles. I would have like to see the introduction of ticket agents as opposed to those lovely wandering Canada Line employees in their green shirts usually there to depart the wisdom that the next train is out of service. Cheaping out now will cost the city more later, I thought that was a proven fact.

LTR across Broadway would be great. A designated centre lane for the trains to use would be efficient; however, it would be greatly opposed and obviously greatly disrupt the Broadway corridor for an undetermined length of time.
I have never been to Surrey so cannot comment. Although thinking now, sending the Evergreen line into an area that has relide on and can afford cars for so long whereas Surrey, from what I read has more of a dependency on transit.

As for the whole ability to add a third car. I will be sure to now triple check if C-Line station size permits that.

 

[VanessaofBC]

not wanting to get in between vanessa and rick i will only say this.

I very very very rarely boarded the wrong train in japan, even if all of the signage was in japanese (country stations) but i’m running about 50/50 on going the wrong way on skytrain.
i am a native english speaker that was born here in the vancouver area, and i have trouble knowing where the next frikken train is going!

Better signage would involve something as simple as:
Stn #1 – stn #2 -> stn #3
or
stn #1 <– stn #2 - stn #3

notice the frikken arrow that tells you what direction you will be going in.
Telling me that a train is bound for x when the line is a bloody circle does very little good to me.

better maps and better signs are required.

ding, ding, ding!!!

 

[manni]

I think colour coding the stations is unnecessary, what does that achieve?

personally, it's the signage location and font size that's badly executed.
there are issues of legibility regarding background colour and font, as well
as the inconsistencies in its usage from one line to another.

I will say that the stations along the Lougheed corridor is more consistent and contemporary.
however, their size and proportion are still on the smallish side–
the function of signage first and foremost is to direct people.

currently it seems more like an exercise to make things pretty…and that's not a bad thing,
I would have put more effort on function first.
just visit any city in Europe and you'll know what I'm talking about.
London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc.

also, I don't understand how one can board the wrong direction in our SkyTrain system?
Millenium/Expo Line: one track heads to Surrey, the other to Waterfront.
Canada Line: one track goes to YVR, the other to Waterfront.

as to when a train is approaching, there's an overhead LED sign at the middle of every station
displaying the destination of the approaching train.

also, if you're boarding on an outdoor platform, just have a look towards the mountains.
you can easily tell if you're going East or West. or do we need an app for that?
it's not brain surgery people or have we lost our cognitive skills in an information overload culture?

 

[VanessaofBC]

For the past 5 or so years, I keep hearing how Surrey is going to eventually surpass Vancouver. I have to get going, but, here's what I quickly found in a 5 second search:

http://globalnews.ca/news/653206/surreys-population-projected-to-surpass-vancouvers/

Even if it doesn't surpass Vancouver, we can assume that the population will most likely match or just fall slightly short of Vancouver's. Surrey has 3 sky train stops, all in the Northern most part. Their bus system is a joke. Not only in wait time, but routes used. Going to opposite ends of Surrey right now can take hours (!) to get to, due to the lack of transportation system here. Thank god I have a car. But the problem is, there's already a large influx of new residents here and it basically makes every street/side street a parking lot. And don't get me started with the increase of truck drivers taking the Patella to avoid taking a toll bridge. Again, this is for a city whose population could surpass Vancouver's. They need development on a new system starting two years ago.

And I apologize for not providing a link, but, Watts made a deal with Moonbeam (mistake #1) that she'd go along with the two cent gas increase, in return Surrey gets priority of the next transportation line. With the ever noticeable bike lines being drawn onto Surrey roads, it's time that Moonbeam try and make due on his promise.

This would never happen, but, consider how much many of the management make over at translink, perhaps we can get them to reduce their salaries and stop their annual raises to help pay for these major costs?

And on a totally unrelated note, Vanessa looks fantastic in that red bra.

Thx, babe!

QUESTION: So why doesn't Surrey say f u to Translink and start their own service?

edit: and on the topic of colour that is how I first learned to get around using the TTC. I would always make the transfer at greet stations. St. George and Duffern.

Then Bay was white, others had distinguishable tiles, or at Museum station the polls were all decorated to look like egyptian tombs. Something that is visibly distinct is easy to find. Especially if someone is ESL

 

[rick hunter]

Not wanting to get in between Vanessa and Rick I will only say this.

I very very very rarely boarded the wrong train in Japan, even if all of the signage was in Japanese (country stations) but I’m running about 50/50 on going the wrong way on Skytrain.
I am a native English speaker that was born here in the Vancouver area, and I have trouble knowing where the next frikken train is going!

Better signage would involve something as simple as:
Stn #1 – Stn #2 -> Stn #3
Or
Stn #1 <– Stn #2 - Stn #3

Notice the frikken arrow that tells you what direction you will be going in.
Telling me that a train is bound for X when the line is a bloody circle does very little good to me.

Better maps and better signs are required.

There are signs, that says on the Platform that says westbound towards Burnaby/Vancouver and going eastbound towards Burnaby/Surrey. If you don't know which way your heading then that's not the system fault. You could try asking someone, what a novel concept!

Yes the Millenuim and Expo share the same track between Waterfront and Columbia and then they split off. The map is the same as all subway maps around the world, it not really that hard to figure out. Again if you're not sure you could try asking someone.

I've ridden 15 subway lines around the world and none paint their stations a different colour. This whole ESL argument is a red herring, if all those old Chinese people can figure it out, I'm sure someone who is born here can manage.

 

[manni]

Tokyo, Osaka, Sapporo, any of these belong in the 15 subway lines around the world?
If not, just keep talking to yourself about it.

I had no problems there but many problems here, same guy with same limited intellect so you tell me why that is?

L-I-J,

if you were successful navigating around Tokyo, surely you can figure the system here.
it doesn't sound as if you're navigation-challenged.

can you recall that experience where you got on the wrong line?
where were you heading?

and perhaps you're correct regarding the LED overhead display not available at all stations
but they do exist. they are always located at the middle of the platform, attached to the ceiling.
Commercial Dr station has it for sure.

 

[VanessaofBC]

Empty




Not enough upper bar space in the corridors and too much crowding around the yellow bar by the door . Why some numb nuts decided to put it there is beyond me. it only makes getting on and off the train difficult because of the congestion around the this yellow poll.

 

[manni]

Hi manni,

From memory of 3 or more years ago…

I was somewhere between Braid and Lougheed going downtown.
I think that 2 lines (both trains have same markings?) go in the same direction and split at maybe VCC-Clark.
The announcement only said X-line to VCC-Clark but as I wanted a station past there (which I believe is where they split) I couldn’t tell if the train coming was the one I wanted or not?

The circle I can’t remember (does New West make any sense?) but like I said, both directions will eventually get you there, but with a difference of 20 minutes or more.
Not cool on your way to a job interview.

Never had these problems in Japan, the times I got on the wrong train I’m pretty sure I was staggering drunk.

In Japan the different trains(lines) have different colours so you know instantly where the train is going. A lot of colour coding. For example at a station with up to 6 different lines converging you can easily tell which train to get as the train is colour coded, the stations are colour coded (often more than one train can get to the same place) and each platform is clearly marked so you know what train stops there and in which direction it is going.

Chiyoda – Green
Mita – Blue
Hibiya – Grey
Marunochi – Red
Yurakucho – Yellow-ish/Brown
Etc…

The mess below was easy in comparison to Skytrain.

okay, I think that might explain it.
you probably just caught the train destined to VCC on Millenium Line. the loudspeakers inside the train always announces
its destination. the phrasing goes something like this: This train is for _____. if you've heard it was for VCC,
you would have transferred to the 'Expo Line' at Commercial Dr station and catch the train going dtown.

maybe you were probably assuming that Millenium Line goes straight to dtown? (I see that from their map).
but you're right. it's an easy mistake if one doesn't use the system on a regular basis.

I've used the Tokyo system myself and yes, I did find it rather easy to use. the colour system in this case works because
we're dealing with multiple lines and not just three. also clever that the pathways and platforms retained the colour coding.

I can see how the Tokyo map may intimidate someone going in for the first time, but then again, I would have commisioned someone
for a better designed map modeled after London and NYC; very clean layout, legible font and very coordinated colours.

 

[rick hunter]

Tokyo, Osaka, Sapporo, any of these belong in the 15 subway lines around the world?
If not, just keep talking to yourself about it.

I had no problems there but many problems here, same guy with same limited intellect so you tell me why that is?

I've haven't been to Japan so no. But I have ridden the subway in London, Paris, Rome, Toronto, Montreal, LA, San Fransisco, Washington D.C., Beijing, Shanghai, Xian, Chengdu, Hong Kong, Singapore. Ok that's only 14.

If you can figure out Japan, I don't understand how a 3 line system is that complicated, when only 2 lines even overlap.

 

[VanessaofBC]

The problem is new riders, unless shown how to use the system, you may not realize you are on the train going to King George when they want to be going to VCC. I have seen two people do that with my own eyes.
Same with C-Line. You get a train to the airport and the next thing you know you are headed for Richmond. There are no't washrooms at any of the stations. Even Waterfront station.
There are no ticket agents that can sell you tickets or assist you at the ticket machine.

I find the "Station Light MAp" (From the Expo/Millenium Line) to be a good indicator of which path the train is on and which station is coming up next.

When I saw my first car that had this type of map, I thought it was GENIUS. This maps should be above every door on every other side of the train

_..... _ ........ _.......... _ ....
|.... _ ....... _ ....... _ ......| <------ so if that was one car of the train there would be 6 station maps three on each side.

Also adding upper habd railings so that when the car are congested, people do not have to congregate around that damn yellow pole. Or at least move the yellow pokle away from the door?

 

[peter putter]

I think that painting the stations different colours would really help.....

In the top 5 goofy questions at Expo 86.. What colour is the red zone?:doh:

 

[VanessaofBC]

In the top 5 goofy questions at Expo 86.. What colour is the red zone?:doh:

I am just saying. Having distinguishable stations as opposed to making them all the same would help a lot. You would instantaneously know the station as opposed to having to turn your head rapidly while looking for some sort of confirmation as to what station it is.

 

[rick hunter]

The problem is new riders, unless shown how to use the system, you may not realize you are on the train going to King George when they want to be going to VCC. I have seen two people do that with my own eyes.
Same with C-Line. You get a train to the airport and the next thing you know you are headed for Richmond. There are no't washrooms at any of the stations. Even Waterfront station.
There are no ticket agents that can sell you tickets or assist you at the ticket machine.

I find the "Station Light MAp" (From the Expo/Millenium Line) to be a good indicator of which path the train is on and which station is coming up next.


When I saw my first car that had this type of map, I thought it was GENIUS. This maps should be above every door on every other side of the train

_..... _ ......... _....... _ ....
|.... _ ....... _ ......... _ ......| <------ so if that was one car of the train there would be 6 station maps three on each side.

Also adding upper habd railings so that when the car are congested, people do not have to congregate around that damn yellow pole. Or at least move the yellow pokle away from the door?

I've personally helped quite a few people get on the right train to the airport. These weren't FOB people either, these were white people who spoke perfect English. Yes you want to take the train that says YVR-Airport to the AIRPORT! :doh: Like I said the easiest way if someone doesn't know is to ask!, if you don't speak English then have someone write down were you want to go. I do the same thing when I travel to a foreign country. People are more than willing to help.

It's human nature to crowd at the door, this problem isn't unique to Vancouver. Just like people not moving to the back of the bus. You can hang on the poles besides the seats.

Very few systems I've been on had washrooms, only at bigger stations where a lot of people use had one and in Europe you have to pay even if there is one. The lighted map idea is a good idea, it depends on how new the train is. I've seen them on some systems.

The only one that is only manned all the time is YVR to help tourists, I usually see them at Bridgeport also.

 

[sdw]

I've personally helped quite a few people get on the right train to the airport. These weren't FOB people either, these were white people who spoke perfect English. Yes you want to take the train that says YVR-Airport to the AIRPORT! :doh: Like I said the easiest way if someone doesn't know is to ask!, if you don't speak English then have someone write down were you want to go. I do the same thing when I travel to a foreign country. People are more than willing to help.

It's human nature to crowd at the door, this problem isn't unique to Vancouver. Just like people not moving to the back of the bus. You can hang on the poles besides the seats.

Very few systems I've been on had washrooms, only at bigger stations where a lot of people use had one and in Europe you have to pay even if there is one. The lighted map idea is a good idea, it depends on how new the train is. I've seen them on some systems.

The only one that is only manned all the time is YVR to help tourists, I usually see them at Bridgeport also.

I'd much rather pay to use a public toilet that has an attendant, than to use some of the "free" public toilets.

Toilet at the Great Wall of Chine - "attended"

Toilet at 2008 Olympic Park - - - this is of the toilet when brand new, believe me - they don't look like this now. I "held" it until I got back to the Hotel.