Your posts are full of insults and attacks. Then you whine about being attacked.
Can't you participate in a debate without inserting hysterial, foul language and arrogance?
Vancouver Coastal Health to give out free crackpipes!!!
- Thread starter bartendr
- Start date
Can't you participate in a debate without inserting hysterial, foul language and arrogance?
If an addict walks into a hospital today and asks for help they have three options:
Walk back out and give up.
Enroll in a methadone program.
Go on a waiting list for up to 8 months.
Guess what usually happens?
A lot of ill-informed people buy the party line on harm reduction that have never lived or worked down there.
Things are worse on the downtown east side than ever since the introduction of harm reduction strategies.
Don't take my word - go down after midnight and take a look. It's like another planet you keyboard warriors never see, but seem to know all about.
Walk back out and give up.
Enroll in a methadone program.
Go on a waiting list for up to 8 months.
Guess what usually happens?
A lot of ill-informed people buy the party line on harm reduction that have never lived or worked down there.
Things are worse on the downtown east side than ever since the introduction of harm reduction strategies.
Don't take my word - go down after midnight and take a look. It's like another planet you keyboard warriors never see, but seem to know all about.
Are you completely incapable of having a rational discussion without putting people down with you ill perceived holier than thou attitude?
Back in the day when I worked in Oakalla we had an interesting treatment program for junkies. Four days of methadone and then cold turkey. A lot of these guys when they walked out of there had help waiting for them, the John Howard Society, Sally Ann and what have you. Yet the majority always returned. Some you could time the seasons to. Come Fall they'ed pull some shit that would get them locked up over the Winter and then like a butterfly they would shed their prison greens in the Spring and head on down to the DTES and start the cycle all over again.
At what point do you stop trying to help those that don't want to be helped?
When do you stop trying to help those that are beyond help?
Where does our responsibility as a Society begin and end in regards to our "fellow man" ?
At what point do you stop trying to help those that don't want to be helped?
When do you stop trying to help those that are beyond help?
Where does our responsibility as a Society begin and end in regards to our "fellow man" ?
Well said. This is exactly why the principle of harm reduction came into existence. Harm reduction serves to reduce the harm the addicts do to themselves. But equally important is that it saves taxpayers the potential health care costs associated with hard drug use. A clean hypodermic needle costs less than a dollar, compare that to the cost of meds for one day for an HIV patient. Harm reduction was never meant to reduce drug use contrary to some people's understanding.
Here is an opinion piece I read recently:
"Consider this: The province decides to fund a cheap medical program that could reduce the spread of a serious disease and, along with it, could reduce health care costs significantly.
One would think such a program would be heartily endorsed by anyone who's concerned about spiralling health care costs. Alas, the program concerns drugs - more specifically, crack cocaine, one of the most harmful of the illicit drugs. And that means that many people will reflexively oppose the program regardless of the benefits it may realize.
The pilot project involves distributing crack kits, including pipes, mouthpieces, filters and condoms, to crack cocaine smokers. Although it's not clear how many subjects will be involved, the project is expected to run for six months to a year and to cost between $50,000 and $60,000.
That's a mere pittance compared to the project's potential savings. Although the evidence is not conclusive on this point, there is reason to believe that the sharing of crack pipes can lead to transmission of a variety of blood-borne diseases, most notably hepatitis C (HCV).
Indeed, just a few years ago Benedikt Fischer of the University of Victoria's Centre for Addiction Research studied 51 crack smokers and found HCV on one pipe.
This doesn't prove that HCV is transmitted via shared crack pipes, but given that many crack smokers have burns and open sores on their lips, it's certainly possible.
We know further that both HCV and pipe sharing are epidemic among crack users.
According to data from the ongoing B.C. Alcohol and Other Drug Monitoring Project, which interviews samples of drug users every six months, 70 per cent of crack smokers in Victoria and 60 per cent in Vancouver reported sharing crack pipes.
It is, therefore, imperative that we do whatever we can to reduce the risk of HCV transmission among crack users, not only to safeguard their health but also to reduce health care costs.
The cost of treating HCV infection is estimated at $30,000 per person per year, and given the number of HCV-infected drug users in Canada, the estimate for treatment over the next 20 years runs into the billions of dollars.
This itself is a crisis, in addition to the epidemic of HCV infection among drug users.
And it means that if the pilot project prevents two people from becoming HCV positive, it will have paid for itself for each year's outlay.
But preventing HCV infection is, of course, not the only to reason to endorse the project. Crack pipe sharing might also lead to HIV transmission and to respiratory illnesses such as pneumonia.
And preventing disease isn't the only reason to endorse the project.
The distribution of crack kits also acts as a form of outreach to deeply marginalized drug users, a point of first contact with the health care system.
As we have seen with Insite, Vancouver's supervised injection site, the project could ultimately result in more users seeking treatment.
Of course, we don't know if the project will have this effect, or even if it will reduce HCV infection. But that is precisely why it needs to be tried and studied. Running such a project is the very epitome of responsible health care policy-making."
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/...+good+policy/5203644/story.html#ixzz1Ul5UuAH5
"Consider this: The province decides to fund a cheap medical program that could reduce the spread of a serious disease and, along with it, could reduce health care costs significantly.
One would think such a program would be heartily endorsed by anyone who's concerned about spiralling health care costs. Alas, the program concerns drugs - more specifically, crack cocaine, one of the most harmful of the illicit drugs. And that means that many people will reflexively oppose the program regardless of the benefits it may realize.
The pilot project involves distributing crack kits, including pipes, mouthpieces, filters and condoms, to crack cocaine smokers. Although it's not clear how many subjects will be involved, the project is expected to run for six months to a year and to cost between $50,000 and $60,000.
That's a mere pittance compared to the project's potential savings. Although the evidence is not conclusive on this point, there is reason to believe that the sharing of crack pipes can lead to transmission of a variety of blood-borne diseases, most notably hepatitis C (HCV).
Indeed, just a few years ago Benedikt Fischer of the University of Victoria's Centre for Addiction Research studied 51 crack smokers and found HCV on one pipe.
This doesn't prove that HCV is transmitted via shared crack pipes, but given that many crack smokers have burns and open sores on their lips, it's certainly possible.
We know further that both HCV and pipe sharing are epidemic among crack users.
According to data from the ongoing B.C. Alcohol and Other Drug Monitoring Project, which interviews samples of drug users every six months, 70 per cent of crack smokers in Victoria and 60 per cent in Vancouver reported sharing crack pipes.
It is, therefore, imperative that we do whatever we can to reduce the risk of HCV transmission among crack users, not only to safeguard their health but also to reduce health care costs.
The cost of treating HCV infection is estimated at $30,000 per person per year, and given the number of HCV-infected drug users in Canada, the estimate for treatment over the next 20 years runs into the billions of dollars.
This itself is a crisis, in addition to the epidemic of HCV infection among drug users.
And it means that if the pilot project prevents two people from becoming HCV positive, it will have paid for itself for each year's outlay.
But preventing HCV infection is, of course, not the only to reason to endorse the project. Crack pipe sharing might also lead to HIV transmission and to respiratory illnesses such as pneumonia.
And preventing disease isn't the only reason to endorse the project.
The distribution of crack kits also acts as a form of outreach to deeply marginalized drug users, a point of first contact with the health care system.
As we have seen with Insite, Vancouver's supervised injection site, the project could ultimately result in more users seeking treatment.
Of course, we don't know if the project will have this effect, or even if it will reduce HCV infection. But that is precisely why it needs to be tried and studied. Running such a project is the very epitome of responsible health care policy-making."
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/...+good+policy/5203644/story.html#ixzz1Ul5UuAH5
Get back to me after a few nights down there, wilde.
Give us a first-hand account.
I suggest walking around the lanes after midnight, as I have and see if what you read matches what you think you know.
Good luck.
PS - maybe you could also ask why there are more addicts now than before Insite was set up.
For the record - I never said I had a problem with distributing free needles or condoms. That does work.
I do have a problem with free crack pipes and Insite and the lack of resources going to treatment when people want and need it.
Give us a first-hand account.
I suggest walking around the lanes after midnight, as I have and see if what you read matches what you think you know.
Good luck.
PS - maybe you could also ask why there are more addicts now than before Insite was set up.
For the record - I never said I had a problem with distributing free needles or condoms. That does work.
I do have a problem with free crack pipes and Insite and the lack of resources going to treatment when people want and need it.
Get back to me after you have been inside Insite which I have and there are plenty of resources available should the drug users request them. I have first hand experience in trying to help a good friend kick his heroine addiction so don't you fucking dare lecture me on the plight of the DTES.
As to why there's an increase in addicts, there are many reasons but you conveniently blame it on Insite. The first and foremost as any police officers working the DTES will tell you, the weather. We get a lot of transient hard drug users from the rest of the country because of the weather.
And for the last time, why don't you lose that stinking attitude of yours? Even if you have a valid point people are too pissed off to see it. All it does is make you sound like a bitter pill. I suppose there's always the ignore button which I will consider using for only the second time in my Perb existence.
Yeah, I'm the one with attitude.
Get off your high horse.
You're the one who lectures endlessly off of googled statistics and articles.
Whoppee, you've been inside Insite - so have I.
Resources available - nurse, bleach, needles, pamphlets, referral to methadone clinic.
How successful were you helping your friend? I truly hope he kicked.
Get off your high horse.
You're the one who lectures endlessly off of googled statistics and articles.
Whoppee, you've been inside Insite - so have I.
Resources available - nurse, bleach, needles, pamphlets, referral to methadone clinic.
How successful were you helping your friend? I truly hope he kicked.
Better than you lecturing off that big thick fucking skull of yours who thinks he knows everything. Bra fucking vo, you've walked a couple of lanes in the DTES and that makes you a fucking expert on the topic. You make me want to puke.
As for my friend, he is trapped in a cycle of getting clean and relapsing. It's going to be a lifelong struggle for him as most recovering addicts will attest to.
Living, working and interacting with addicts makes me a hell of a lot more expert that someone googling and using other people's words to show their pseudo-expertise.
Get some on-the-ground, in-the-field experience before you think you know everything.
Same as the HST debate - I cited my direct experiences and you google studies and reports that have no bearing on the personal, direct impact on me and my business.
feel free to puke, any time, but I do feel sorry for your friend.
OK I've already addressed this but here we go again: No one is disagreeing that more money/resources are needed for people seeking treatment. That has nothing whatsoever to do with harm reduction. Both are needed, it's not about choosing one over another. Hopefully you'll read it this time and we won't have to go over it again.
Second, do you have any evidence that the situation being worse, as you say it is, has anything to do with harm reduction? How do you know harm reduction is responsible? My guess is you don't, you've just decided that's what was to blame because it fits with what you already believe but I'll reserve final judgment until you have had the opportunity to provide some evidence.
PS: Is that too big now? Or is the font size ok??
Right. Because God gave you this information personally? If not, then where's the evidence?
I know you are not really into numbers, statistics or scientific facts in general but if you want to make claims like that one, you'll have to give us more than you're own subjective perspective based on "what you see". Because as I've already posted and if you'd taken a minute to look at the actual Insite website, the evidence doesn't support this claim of yours. It's pretty convenient to ignore any (in this case all) evidence that discredits your arguments. Are you just going to keep doing it over and over, just hoping we get tired of repeating the same response? If that's the case, fyi - this is my last time repeating and reposting things you don't like and therefore ignore. I mean seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
Crack pipe distribution serves the same purpose as needles/condoms distribution... so why do you feel differently about crack pipes than you do about needles/condoms? And why have you been ranting about harm reduction if according to you, you support at least a good part of it? WTH?
