Update on softwood

wilde

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Stop the 'emotional tirades' on softwood, U.S. envoy says

The only way to settle is though negotiation, he says, warning against trade war

Andrew Duffy
Ottawa Citizen

Friday, August 26, 2005


OTTAWA -- U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins says Canadian politicians should stop their "emotional tirades"and order the country's trade representatives back to the bargaining table to reach a final settlement on softwood lumber.

In a meeting with the Ottawa Citizen editorial board, Wilkins said Canadian officials should embrace negotiations, rather than trade litigation to settle the dispute. Otherwise, he suggested, they risk a trade war with multiple fronts.

"I don't think we need to go down another avenue but we could," Wilkins warned. "We could start talking about import barriers by Canada on certain goods, like dairy and egg products and things of that nature, and broadcast regulations that are exempt from NAFTA."

While Prime Minister Paul Martin and the Liberal government pondered retaliatory action against the U.S., Wilkins said he was disappointed Canadian trade officials refused to meet this week to discuss softwood.

That meeting, scheduled for Monday in Ottawa, was cancelled after International Trade Minister Jim Peterson said he needed time to consider all his options, including trade sanctions, in the wake of Washington's refusal to accept the decision of a key trade panel ruling.

"Emotional press conferences are not going to settle the issue," Wilkins said. "Canada needs to come back to the table. We need to close the door, roll up our sleeves and negotiate as need be, with good faith, and bring finality to it."

Simmering for decades, the softwood lumber dispute is now in full boil after Washington announced it would ignore another trade ruling in Canada's favour -- this time from the final court of appeal established by the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Wilkins characterized that decision as a ruling that doesn't bring finality to the dispute: "It wasn't a settlement, it was a ruling. You have a difference in legal opinion."

It's the position of the U.S. government, he said, that the 2004 ruling of the U.S. International Trade Commission, an independent federal agency, remains the binding decision in the case. That ruling, based on a U.S. investigation of the softwood market, concluded provincial subsidies give Canadian producers an unfair advantage over their U.S. counterparts.

Martin has called the U.S. position on softwood "untenable" and Industry Minister David Emerson has started to draw up a list of U.S. goods on which to impose tariffs in retaliation for the American action.

Wilkins said Thursday that a trade war is not in the best interests of either country given the U.S. buys 86 per cent of Canada's exports.

"Your softwood lumber exports are at a 10-year high because of our booming housing market," he said. "I'm aware of the criticism that many folks have been levelling against the U.S. in the last few days, but I think it's important to keep it in perspective. We have a great bilateral trade market and agreement.

"And I don't think this one issue should tarnish that or adversely affect that. I think it would be a mistake for both sides."
 

wilde

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Jun 4, 2003
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wilde said:
Simmering for decades, the softwood lumber dispute is now in full boil after Washington announced it would ignore another trade ruling in Canada's favour -- this time from the final court of appeal established by the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Wilkins characterized that decision as a ruling that doesn't bring finality to the dispute: "It wasn't a settlement, it was a ruling. You have a difference in legal opinion."

It's the position of the U.S. government, he said, that the 2004 ruling of the U.S. International Trade Commission, an independent federal agency, remains the binding decision in the case. That ruling, based on a U.S. investigation of the softwood market, concluded provincial subsidies give Canadian producers an unfair advantage over their U.S. counterparts.
What's left to talk about, the phucking weather? When negotiations fails, you goto a ruling. When the ruling fails, you retaliate.
 

Ilovethemall

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Jul 12, 2005
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sure, retaliate

We can retaliate and then get our nuts handed to us. We are 2% of the US's GDP, they are 54% of ours. That's 54 cents out of every dollar in our pockets. Do the fucking math and see how far up our throats our balls will get shoved.

We are better off campaigning in the US with consumers groups pointing out how badly US homeowners are getting screwed by paying lumber costs that are too high.

Our only potential trade weapon is energy....open that door and see how fucking hard they smack us.
 

wilde

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Jun 4, 2003
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I hear ya man. But campaigning in the US with consumers groups is going to be expensive and very time consuming. With all the lobbygroups that have something riding on this in Washington you better have very deep pockets.

It is either using energy as the weapon or continue to take it up the a$$.
 

JustAGuy

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Ah, so it's an "emotional tirade" when Canadians get riled up about the USA ignoring ruling after ruling on softwood lumber that goes against them. Think they'd be so dismissive of those rulings if they'd gone in favor of the USA? When will Americans get their collective heads out of their asses long enough to realize that the citizens of every country that isn't America do NOT wake up every morning wondering what we can do today that will make life better for Americans?
 

georgebushmoron

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Herb_The_Perb said:
Or charge them an excise tax for patronizing Canadian SP's.
HEY!!! That's unfair!
 

wilde

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Herb_The_Perb said:
Or charge them an excise tax for patronizing Canadian SP's.
plus an additional tariff equal to 100% of the donation after they go "softwood"
 

Herb_The_Perb

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JustAGuy said:
When will Americans get their collective heads out of their asses long enough to realize that the citizens of every country that isn't America do NOT wake up every morning wondering what we can do today that will make life better for Americans?
Why do you hate freedom so much?
You're probably a terrorist.
 

The Lizard King

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plus an additional tariff equal to 100% of the donation after they go "softwood"
At least if they're wood was soft, it wouldn't hurt so much when Canada gets it up the ass. Oops...sorry...I might have gotten Chingada excited by the premise of "wood up ass'.
 

JustAGuy

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Herb_The_Perb said:
Why do you hate freedom so much?
You're probably a terrorist.
Actually, I'm an anarchist. MUCH worse than being a mere terrorist. :D
 

georgebushmoron

jus call me MR. President
Mar 25, 2003
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Herb_The_Perb said:
Why do you hate freedom so much?
You're probably a terrorist.
HEY!!! Stop stealing my lines!
 

planetsmurf

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Apr 13, 2005
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the american gov't headed by bush will take whatever information they need to suite there agenda, and if that happens to be two lines out of an essay then they will do it and stand by it to the end, they don't understand logic,diplomacy, or have any idea of what a clue is. the only way to solve this issue is wait until the current moron gets out of office and hopefully we will get a better more educated president
 

luckydog71

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It is George's fault...it is George's fault.

Everything wrong with America is caused by George.

If Canadians really believe this then your best course of action is to do nothing. In 2 1/2 years he will be gone. We will elect a new president and it won't be George.

Everything will go back to how it was when Billy boy was president. Canada refused to sell us water and got to sell all of the softwood lumber they wanted tariff free.

You have lived next door to the most powerful nation in the world for hundreds of years. After all this time you still expect the US to think and act like Canadians.

Insanity ....doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.....wake the fuck up.
 

The Lizard King

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Canada refused to sell us water and got to sell all of the softwood lumber they wanted tariff free.
Just when I thought you were coming to your senses...
After all this time you still expect the US to think and act like Canadians.
...I think you have things a little backwards.
 

Herb_The_Perb

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luckydog71 said:
It is George's fault...it is George's fault.

Everything wrong with America is caused by George.

If Canadians really believe this then your best course of action is to do nothing. In 2 1/2 years he will be gone. We will elect a new president and it won't be George.
Don'te so sure it won't be George. His cabal would love nothing better than to declare martial law and keep him in office for a while longer than that.
And they'll do that in the name of freedom.
 

The Lizard King

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Don'te so sure it won't be George. His cabal would love nothing better than to declare martial law and keep him in office for a while longer than that.
They won't have to...it'll get worse, it will be Jeb!
 

wilde

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Jun 4, 2003
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luckydog71 said:
You have lived next door to the most powerful nation in the world for hundreds of years. After all this time you still expect the US to think and act like Canadians.

Insanity ....doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.....wake the fuck up.
Great advice LD.

Assuming our softwood lumber companies can pass on the tariffs to the US buyers by similarily increasing the sale price. Does this not mean the American home owners are forced to pay inflated price for their homes?
 

luckydog71

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A strong and vibrant Canadian economy would be a huge benefit to the US, as would a strong Mexican economy. Can you just imagine the influence North America would have if all three countries actually reach even 50% of their potential?

I am not suggesting that Canada and Mexico should be in lock step with the US, in fact just the opposite. Strong neighbors would make the US stronger, not weaker.

Canada is a very strange country. Its economic policies are based on what is best for Ontario. Softwood lumber is a perfect example of this and your government has successfully diverted your attention away from the real problem, the Canadian government.

If Canada and the US really got into a trade war who do you think would get hurt? Certainly not the resource rich western provinces. In fact the economic power of western provinces would sky rocket during an all out trade war and Ontario would suffer.

The softwood lumber dispute could be settled in short order if the Canadian government would just stand up. The US is enjoying this huge housing boom and this is a major contributor to the low unemployment in the US. So just say “fuck you” and stop all export of wood to the US and wait for 1 month. You will see tremendous pressure put on George by US industry to solve this problem.

What scares your government is retaliation from the US would come in the form of restriction of manufactured goods. We need your lumber. We need your electricity. We do not need your cars or appliances. Does it not strike you as odd that the stuff we need the most is the stuff Canada exercises the least control over.

You can get mad at the US for not playing fair. You can blame all of your problems on your neighbor. But that will not solve your problem.
 
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