I didn't denigrate their intelligence. They have different priorities and circumstances than someone who lives in a big city. They can certainly have a different opinion as well.
UK to leave the EU
- Thread starter badbadboy
- Start date
for referendum like this, they can set the baseline higher to 2/3 of the population. now that absolute majority will force every party to do its job right.
I see a lot of the EU big shots and their elite supporters taking this pretty hard, but the more I see them express sour grapes about the result, the more I know why they lost.
Face it, EU leaders - if the people thought you had their best interests in mind, if they were pleased with the direction you've been taking them, this would not have happened. There is no one else to blame, you did this to yourselves.
Yeah, this is how I feel about it as well. It's not like the idea of a Europe-wide trade and investment bloc is a bad idea, with some common standards and mobility measures to back it up. There is still some hope for the EU as a less centralized, sovereignty-respecting, and more democratic body. Create that, and maybe the UK might want to return to the fold. But they have to jettison the idea of an elite-driven superstate that reigns above the level of national governments.
But anyway, stay tuned, because this is only the beginning. The status quo cannot continue in the rest of Europe, any more than it can in Britain.
Face it, EU leaders - if the people thought you had their best interests in mind, if they were pleased with the direction you've been taking them, this would not have happened. There is no one else to blame, you did this to yourselves.
The EU has been a project that is too much under the direction of global financial elites and the politicians they make deals with in the backrooms. The nation-less superstate? That's their project, reflecting their values alone. It's an oligarchy, and has ignored the demands of actual democracy for far too long. The actual people of Europe never wanted to see their cultures erased and sovereignty destroyed in favour of some grey new world in which they are just an aggregate of economic units (consumers, workers, taxpayers, investors).
Yeah, this is how I feel about it as well. It's not like the idea of a Europe-wide trade and investment bloc is a bad idea, with some common standards and mobility measures to back it up. There is still some hope for the EU as a less centralized, sovereignty-respecting, and more democratic body. Create that, and maybe the UK might want to return to the fold. But they have to jettison the idea of an elite-driven superstate that reigns above the level of national governments.
But anyway, stay tuned, because this is only the beginning. The status quo cannot continue in the rest of Europe, any more than it can in Britain.
That is not the point. The janitors and receptionist have no idea what is or is not good for the country, which means that they are incapable of forming a sound opinion on who should be running the country. Yet they are electing people. So, anyone who comes along with a populist message will get these janitors support, who are completely clueless about the implications. That is exactly what happened with Brexit. For the most part, these are the sorts of people who support idiots like Trump.
Most of the electorate, especially those in the lower socio-economic strata, are completely clueless about these things, and should not be deciding who runs the country. Those decisions should be left to the elite, the ones who actually know what they are talking about at least some of the time. The fact that we allow these lower classes a say is exactly why most democracies have so many problems.
The advantage for the UK being in the EU is that it provided the rest of the world, who largely use English as an international language, a base of operations from which to conduct business in Europe. Once the UK leaves, this will no longer be possible, and those companies will probably relocate somewhere else. They will still want an English speaking base however. And this just happens to be where the Scots leaving is going to be good for them. All those corporate services currently located in London to serve the EU market are going to relocate to Edinburgh. It is going to cost a ton of jobs in England, and create a ton in Scotland.
Sounds just like the Trans Pacific Partnership! TPP is being negotiated in secret. Big business should not govern countries, big business should not decide what is best for citizens. TPP and the EU both let corporations over rule local governments. See the case of Germany being sued over phasing out nuclear power plants.
Arrogant I may be, but my brief comment was more a profound sadness at the subversion of democracy. In this referendum and I followed it a lot, rational argumentative thought was trumped by naked opinionated emotion, and democracy trumped by demagoguery. As a result the process was simply not democratic and demonstrated subversion by the great simplifiers.
L
Larry Storch
So based on what you've posted I get:
The average person should not be allowed to vote, but those who live in the higher echelons of society should?
Interesting that you refer to Trump as an idiot, as he would qualify to be in your "socio-economic strata."
Socioeconomic status depends on a combination of variables, including occupation, education, income, wealth, and place of residence.
(Source:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/socioeconomic-status)
Contradiction
3. a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous.
4. direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency.
(Source:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/contradiction?s=t)
No you did not denigrate their intelligence. We are basically on the same page.
I was actually referring to the guy who--if he had his way would deny the majority of people posting on this board the right to vote because they do not hit a certain income threshold or hold a certain category of job and thus are considered ignorant and incapable of making decisions that may affect their own lives.
My Dad has voted in every election since the forties. He does not hold allegiance to any party, and has his own reasons for voting on any issue. They may not be my reasons, they are his, he is entitled to them and often they are very good ones and ones that never occurred to me. So to say the "masses" are ignorant is ignorant itself. They just see the world differently and have different motivations and priorities.
Quote from Jethro Tull...Thick as a Brick..."I've come down from the upper classes to mend your rotten ways."
Society moves forward and is most effectively governed by consensus. Any attempt to push society in a direction they don't want to go is met by resistance and often push back. Which surprises the politicians who push rather than build consensus.
Each person has a vote. The educated and the the less educated, the powerful and the weak. Each person has their perspectives and take on a given situation. In aggregate a vote is a measure of what society wants, and it often doesn't want to be pushed around by so called elites.
The sky will not fall, the EU is not a panacea for anything, the UK has always charted an independent course with Europe, as have some other counties. Things change and are not immutable, if the Brits want to get back in at some future date, I can't see the Eurozone keeping them out for long.
As for the person saying that Scotland will be the home of English speaking commerce in the EU if they go independent and the Brits stay out, Ha Ha have you talked to someone from Scotland lately? English?....Bah ha ha
oundit's a joke son)
Quote from Jethro Tull...Thick as a Brick..."I've come down from the upper classes to mend your rotten ways."
Society moves forward and is most effectively governed by consensus. Any attempt to push society in a direction they don't want to go is met by resistance and often push back. Which surprises the politicians who push rather than build consensus.
Each person has a vote. The educated and the the less educated, the powerful and the weak. Each person has their perspectives and take on a given situation. In aggregate a vote is a measure of what society wants, and it often doesn't want to be pushed around by so called elites.
The sky will not fall, the EU is not a panacea for anything, the UK has always charted an independent course with Europe, as have some other counties. Things change and are not immutable, if the Brits want to get back in at some future date, I can't see the Eurozone keeping them out for long.
As for the person saying that Scotland will be the home of English speaking commerce in the EU if they go independent and the Brits stay out, Ha Ha have you talked to someone from Scotland lately? English?....Bah ha ha
oundit's a joke son)
Tugela's posts here aptly capture exactly why Remain lost.
The arrogance, the condescension, the superior finality of "I'm right, you're wrong. So there." Like his word is final.
A legitimate, democratic referendum isn't accepted unless it goes the way certain people think it should.
That's not how democracy works.
The EEC was a fine institution for trade. The EU is a social engineering experiment that has always been doomed to fail.
Trying to unite such diverse groups is impossible. Adding the burden of Middle Eastern refugees and it's a reipe for disaster.
Oh, and that petition - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...econd-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated
The arrogance, the condescension, the superior finality of "I'm right, you're wrong. So there." Like his word is final.
A legitimate, democratic referendum isn't accepted unless it goes the way certain people think it should.
That's not how democracy works.
The EEC was a fine institution for trade. The EU is a social engineering experiment that has always been doomed to fail.
Trying to unite such diverse groups is impossible. Adding the burden of Middle Eastern refugees and it's a reipe for disaster.
Oh, and that petition - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...econd-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated
ehhhhh... i wouldn't be so sure about that
the country bumpkins might not be so smart, but they take care of their meagre finances daily, and it really doesn't take an economic genius to realize that something's not adding up when they look at their declining retained earnings, and the fact that somebody robbed their pension fund. add to that their vernacular wisdom when they read that some bloke they have never heard of, and for whom they certainly never voted, is telling them how they have to behave locally... well, when given the one opportunity they are ever going to get to get rid of the bastard, they do just exactly that, and the accessory fallout be damned
that's what i meant by 'bloody minded brits'
the same brits that made king john sign the magna carta if he wanted to continue his taxing ways
all the rest of the current doom and gloom talk is just the global elite registering their discontent with the silly concept of democracy
Fear & despair in London...
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/anarchy-uk
And things aren't turning out quite so well for the Leave camp.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/anarchy-uk
And things aren't turning out quite so well for the Leave camp.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access
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Didn't the Sex Pistols have a song or album entitled Anarchy in the UK? This is it. A rudderless ship. A key is, Cameron promised, if leave side won, to pull the trigger on Article 50 which is a formal notification that England intends to leave the EU. They have 24 months to negotiate from there. Instead he reneged and resigned, saying "Why should I do all the dirty work?" Why indeed? Well Brexit side has no plan, no leadership. I think the elite has been brought to its knees, and they will have a come to Jesus moment, and will rally the troops with some pander to the concerns of the 52%, there will be an election, and the campaign will be based on the referendum. The Stay side will be elected, and Brexit will be forgotten for now. Stuff I read:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2...cameron-engineer-maneuver-foil-plans-leave-eu
https://medium.com/@ijclark/the-bubble-has-burst-f3e391333b27#.syu5yhsox
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...class-inequality-westminster?CMP=share_btn_fb
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2...cameron-engineer-maneuver-foil-plans-leave-eu
https://medium.com/@ijclark/the-bubble-has-burst-f3e391333b27#.syu5yhsox
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...class-inequality-westminster?CMP=share_btn_fb
Boris Johnson is an absolute wanker.
He says everything is fine and the markets are stable when the markets are in crisis mode.
He said a bunch of BS about how UK could maintain all its trade deals with the EU. Nice to see him getting shot down.
The UK's own Trump?
He says everything is fine and the markets are stable when the markets are in crisis mode.
He said a bunch of BS about how UK could maintain all its trade deals with the EU. Nice to see him getting shot down.
The UK's own Trump?
Actually it's now the 6th biggest economy because of the the Brexit fallout. So there's that.
There is absolutley no reason for the stock drop, other than the usual panic and profit taking.
For gawd's sake, nothing is even supposed to happen for 2 years, but the day of the vote the stock market plunges.
Within a month, if not sooner, everything will be back where it was before the vote.
For another indication of how out pf touch the Remain side was - the were getting The Beckhams to urge people to remain. The fucking Beckhams? Who live in LA, Lisbon and virtually anywhere else they want, and whose wealth eclipses all but the 1%. THAT's who they decided could sway people to stay in the EU.
That's like Christy Clark urhing us to tighten out belts while she lives like Imelda Marcos.
