U.S. apology --- ??

[luckydog71]

I'm disappointed, LD. While I disagree wholeheartedly with many your interpretations of events, you usually have a better grasp of facts. These statements are completely false by any standard.

Hank, I am aware of the rights of prisoners, but they are not equivalent to those grant US citizens under the constitution. They can be held without charges until the end of hostilities.

The war zone is a very large area. It covers most of the Middle East and the US. So to say they were not caught in a war zone would be a very narrow view of where the war is being fought.

As far as my lack of knowledge about Canada’s participation in the war in the Pacific, James has corrected my error and I acknowledge my mistake.

 

[luckydog71]

Is the treatment of prisoners in Gitmo appropriate? No, it is a stain in America's image.

David, I appreciate your measured criticism of the Gitmo prisoners.

I do not believe that we have a license to do anything we want as long as we can identify someone who was worse than us, but the prisoners would kill the military guards in a heart beat if they had the chance. Given that, the soldiers are within acceptable practice if they take additional precautions to not give the prisoners that chance.

What information do you use to form your opinion that the treatment of prisoners is not appropriate?

Amnesty International has no creditability with me.

I would accept the opinion of the International Red Cross after an on site inspection.
I would accept the opinion of someone from the Canadian government after an on site inspection.

It is my belief that if such an inspection was done, the results would show isolated incidents of abuse by individuals. This does not support the contention that this is condoned by the US government.

 

[eljudo]

I know one or two of you are opposed to the Iraq war and the conflict in Afghanistan.. We have one or two in our country as well, but during war your enemy does not have any rights. The people in Gitmo were caught in a war zone. They are being treated humanely as enemies of the US. You want to compare their treatment to criminals and that somehow the enemy should have the same rights. News flash………they do not…..


Well , then why do the americans cry foul and pound their chests when US soldiers get caught, blown off, or worst the heads get chopped off? According to the enemy, this is under their right since war is war. do not forget that whatever happens to so called " ilegal combatants " you and I are not aware of, since the media is NOT allowed to forsee the issues goign on over there. Obviosly serious shits must be going on over there, since the so called ilegal combatants are not allowed to go through normal court procedures etc.. And also , the countless US astrocities comitted to innocent civilians over in iraq.. all because of lies! and more lies.

 

[The Lizard King]

This is war son…People die…..people are seriously hurt….innocent people are victimized or worse…..Through out history this is the way it has been.

Say, Luckydog, which Rambo movie was that from? hehehehe

 

[luckydog71]

Now maybe we'll stop hearing about the "Hanoi Hilton" and all those MIA's.

I think the only time I have heard about Hanoi Hilton recently is when Jane Fonda comes up.

 

[luckydog71]

Say, Luckydog, which Rambo movie was that from? hehehehe

It does sound like something from a movie....doesn't it......

How corny (or is the Korny?)

 

[dittman]

You base this assesment of their treatment on what? It is contradicted by the reports of human rights organisations and released detainees as well as "whistle blowers" in your own government.

1 wouldnt trust these so called human right organizations if my life depended on it, oh yeah and it does. the leadership of these groups contributed to the kerry campaign so they have a political axe to grind.

2. dont tell me what our history is, study our history when we go to war and youll figure out were not a bunch of nice people.

3 i know whats a few thousand dead americans, we have almost 300 million so a couple of thousand makes no difference. well im here to tell you that is what the looney left is trying to sell to the people and yes it is working, but not with this person, personally i hope they all rot at gitmo, i have no problems with us pissing on their so called holy book. this is going to get even more uglier but that is what survival is all about.

nobody can be that naive to think that you can actually talk to these people at a peace conference, these people want to kill us, that is the only thing they know how to do.

I view the success of the war against the islamafacist with resutlts, when was the last time they hit the u.s?

 

[David in Van]

Your question.

David, I appreciate your measured criticism of the Gitmo prisoners.

I do not believe that we have a license to do anything we want as long as we can identify someone who was worse than us, but the prisoners would kill the military guards in a heart beat if they had the chance. Given that, the soldiers are within acceptable practice if they take additional precautions to not give the prisoners that chance.

What information do you use to form your opinion that the treatment of prisoners is not appropriate?

Amnesty International has no creditability with me.

I would accept the opinion of the International Red Cross after an on site inspection.
I would accept the opinion of someone from the Canadian government after an on site inspection.

It is my belief that if such an inspection was done, the results would show isolated incidents of abuse by individuals. This does not support the contention that this is condoned by the US government.

The basic premise is that the prisoners should either be treated with all of the rights granted US citizens in an America court of law, or they should be treated as per the Geneva Conventions that the US is a signatory to. The current situation in Gitmo is neither.

It is sometimes inconvenient to grant these rights, but the United States has far more to benefit if it does. This is a war to win the hearts and minds of people in the Middle East to freedom. The conduct of the United States should be beyond reproach.

That said, I "generally" support the actions of the US government including the invasion of Iraq. I also find your view that given an inspection, abuse would not be found to be systematic, seems reasonable.

 

[JFK]

How is it that American arrested and try to arrest the former government members and military leaders of Yugoslavia for war crimes while the present American leadership is just as bad or worse?

I thought the rule of law should be the same for every one, Oh wait American don't believe in that.

 

[dittman]

well jfk unlike your buds the jihadist, the u.s does not target women and children for assassination but according to your political ethos thats o.k but if the u.s accidently kills someone thats a war crime.

Not to change the subject but one of todays most ridiculous items. was watching 60 min. tonight and the had the military lawyer on for one of ubls drivers and with a straight face he said he was unfairly pickup on the battlefield his client did not know that ubl was a terrorist or for the politically correct a jihadist. yeah right.

 

[David in Van]

Huh!!

How is it that American arrested and try to arrest the former government members and military leaders of Yugoslavia for war crimes while the present American leadership is just as bad or worse?

I thought the rule of law should be the same for every one, Oh wait American don't believe in that.

JFK, just what war crimes have you concocted on the part of the US and which crimes on the part of Osama have you forgotton about to enable yourself to make that comparision.

 

[JFK]

well jfk unlike your buds the jihadist, the u.s does not target women and children for assassination but according to your political ethos thats o.k but if the u.s accidently kills someone thats a war crime.

Not to change the subject but one of todays most ridiculous items. was watching 60 min. tonight and the had the military lawyer on for one of ubls drivers and with a straight face he said he was unfairly pickup on the battlefield his client did not know that ubl was a terrorist or for the politically correct a jihadist. yeah right.

I agree with you that they don't target women and children for assassination, they just drop laser guided missile on them. I am sure the dead women and children appreciate very much the difference. After all who wants to get killed by a stupid home made bomb when you have the possibility to be killed by latest technology.

 

[Herb_The_Perb]

Why does semi-literacy correlate so closely with rignt-wing viewpoints around here?

 

[David in Van]

Why does semi-literacy correlate so closely with rignt-wing viewpoints around here?

What about spelling?

Herb, I am not going to express a prejudice against your opinion simply because you cannot spell.

Neither will I consider your expertise as a pooner to be correlated with your expertise in logic.

The strength of an arguement is based on the strength of an arguement, nothing more. Literacy only allows the strength of an arguement to be uncovered for all to see (or exposed if the arguement has no strength).

 

[luckydog71]

Why does semi-literacy correlate so closely with rignt-wing viewpoints around here?

We have tried communicating with you on an intellectual level, but it did not work.

What we have decided is to communicating with you at your level of intelligence. Is it working?

 

[Very Veronica]

comparing hookers and imperialist regimes

Picking the US's enemies is like picking a HIV positive drug addicted streetwalker over someone like Veronica or Gina Lee because they didn't quite live up to your expectation of perfection.

Wow, Davey you get the gold star this week for giving this topic a perb/poon-relevant metaphor.

 

[Massagegirl]

I saw Saddam Hussein on a news report last night, his trial starts very soon. He looked pretty healthy and well groomed for a prisoner IMO.

I've done some reading on the warlords in Yugoslavia (can be kinda compared to Columbian druglords sans drugs) who were/are the worst mass murderers since Hitler IMHO in the atrocities they committed (wiping out whole villages that wouldn't cooperate and burying them in mass graves before moving on to the next town) so I hope the Geneva Convention has enough proof to lock them away for good! I don't believe the worst ones have been captured though, (since they have their own armies to protect them) and I'm not even sure if the really really bad ones have been but it would be nice if they have.... still, anything helps.

As for Guatanamo Bay, I didn't think it was legal to hold someone for three years without pressing charges! That's ridiculous! It has created quite a mess that will be hard to sort out when it's over. How are they going to return these people??? If they are terrorists shouldn't they be charged by the Geneva Convention? Someone neutral should be in charge of holding onto prisoners of war.

 

[wilde]

nobody can be that naive to think that you can actually talk to these people at a peace conference, these people want to kill us, that is the only thing they know how to do.

Actually, all they want is to be left alone to run their countries and live thier lives how they see fit as opposed to how the US sees fit.

 

[luckydog71]

Actually, all they want is to be left alone to run their countries and live thier lives how they see fit as opposed to how the US sees fit.

Wilde are you saying that Sadam should have been left alone to run his country the way he wanted?

Who gets to decide who is in charge?

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

Actually, all they want is to be left alone to run their countries and live thier lives how they see fit as opposed to how the US sees fit.

One of the main reasons for Bin-laden's semi erect hard on for the US was the presensce of the US (aka infidels) troops in their so called "Holy Lands" ie Saudi Arabia. The Americans were there because they were invited by the "legitimate rulers" of that Islamic Peace loving country that does not support terrorism (although 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis and they have spent billions of dollars to support the spread of Fundamentalist Islam)

If anyone thinks that the war on Terrorism/Islamic Fundamentalism is going to be won with the Geneva Convention (which only applies to uniformed personnel who have a rank and number) they should get their head examined. This is not a war of two nations fighting one another; its a clash of civilizations. The west has closed a blind eye and has been very tolerant and willing to allow Muslims to move in and integrate in our society and be treated as equals. On the other hand their mentality has always been one where we either get converted to Islam and obey Mohammad's teachings or we must be wiped out to the last man , woman and child.

The liberties that the left likes to sing about would cease to exist if we are not willing to take a stand to maintain our civilization and way of life.

For the record I've lived in Various parts of the Middle East for over 15 years and speak the language fluently.