Trump's off the record comment derails NAFTA negotiation

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badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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In an interview with Bloomberg Trump said off the record he is not compromising at all with Canada. The leak was picked up by The Toronto Star who went to print with it. Bloomberg acknowledged the accuracy of Trump's remark.

The Canadian negotiation team acknowledged that they didn't believe the American's were bargaining in good faith.

Moving forward it seems like we will be out of NAFTA and dealing with new duties applied to our goods. Responding tit for tat is our only recourse.

Perhaps the states most effected by increased cost of goods from Canada will apply pressure to Congress and Senate. It's gonna be an interesting and rough ride moving forward unless Congress and Senate reign in #45.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...-he-isnt-compromising-at-all-with-canada.html
 

MissingOne

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Jan 2, 2006
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I do hope that Trudeau is true to his word, and will not be pressured into accepting a bad deal.
 

nightswhisper

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Feb 20, 2016
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Canadian exports make up for only 2 - 4% of the American economy - a negligible amount that the Americans can supplant from elsewhere. The US congress will not likely make a move.

Canada has some of the highest trade barriers and tariffs in the world and has an extremely protectionist trade policy. The NAFTA agreement has traditionally exclusively benefited Canada at the cost of America.

If you've ever traveled abroad, or tried to ship items from the states, you'll note that anything above the value of 20 $ CAD will be taxed upon import into Canada, while this limit is 750 $ USD if you import into the states. We have high dairy, lumber, mineral, and petroleum taxes in addition to massive VAT across all goods. Everything coming into Canada is slapped with a tariff and the consumers pay for it. We are one of the worst violators of the free-trade agreement, and were only included in the old 1994 treaty as a courtesy for borrowed airspace for the American NORAD program. As a result, Canada has some of the most anti-competition policies in the world and our goods and services industry is dominated by inefficient manufacturers and government sponsored contracts.
 

Island_man1

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Apr 5, 2009
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Canadian exports make up for only 2 - 4% of the American economy - a negligible amount that the Americans can supplant from elsewhere. The US congress will not likely make a move.

Canada has some of the highest trade barriers and tariffs in the world and has an extremely protectionist trade policy. The NAFTA agreement has traditionally exclusively benefited Canada at the cost of America.

If you've ever traveled abroad, or tried to ship items from the states, you'll note that anything above the value of 20 $ CAD will be taxed upon import into Canada, while this limit is 750 $ USD if you import into the states. We have high dairy, lumber, mineral, and petroleum taxes in addition to massive VAT across all goods. Everything coming into Canada is slapped with a tariff and the consumers pay for it. We are one of the worst violators of the free-trade agreement, and were only included in the old 1994 treaty as a courtesy for borrowed airspace for the American NORAD program. As a result, Canada has some of the most anti-competition policies in the world and our goods and services industry is dominated by inefficient manufacturers and government sponsored contracts.
Thank you. Emotions aside, let's be fair and say it as it is.
 

johnsmit

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May 4, 2013
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I can understand why we have some of these protectionist policies.. because we have limited business opportunities and market..
And four country as a whole has less population then California or the eastern states. And they would just dump product in Canada at low prices..
And that would impact the job market and manufacturing.
I hope he sticks to what best for Canada.
Give us a taxe break. So we can afford the higher prices.
 

Gardener

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May 9, 2017
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I think it’s critical to understand that we are not dealing with a good faith negotiator on the other side of the table. This administration wants to beat us into submission. I think our negotiating team now realizes that they are dealing with a different animal.
 

Cock Throppled

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Trump's rhetoric against Mexico was much stronger than anything he's said about Canada, but they managed to get a deal.

The failure to be part of a deal is squarely on the ineffectual negotiators from Canada.

The US is our closest, biggest trading partner. We have to get a deal me might not like. Where are we going to sell our cars and lumber? Vietnam?
 

CanineCowboy

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Feb 5, 2010
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Trump's rhetoric against Mexico was much stronger than anything he's said about Canada, but they managed to get a deal.

The failure to be part of a deal is squarely on the ineffectual negotiators from Canada.

The US is our closest, biggest trading partner. We have to get a deal me might not like. Where are we going to sell our cars and lumber? Vietnam?
I am amazed to hear someone say this. Maybe you should reread bbb's post and the attached article or just follow the news.
 

clu

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Oct 3, 2010
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If you've ever traveled abroad, or tried to ship items from the states, you'll note that anything above the value of 20 $ CAD will be taxed upon import into Canada, while this limit is 750 $ USD if you import into the states.
Goods up to $800 CAD are exempt if coming with you or following when traveling abroad. The $20 is for shipped items via e.g. web shopping.
 

nightswhisper

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Goods up to $800 CAD are exempt if coming with you or following when traveling abroad. The $20 is for shipped items via e.g. web shopping.
You can "claim" goods up to $800 in travel exemption, and you must have exited the country for more than 48 hours. Whether or not you are granted this exemption is subject to CBSA's wishes. Legally speaking, this doesn't mean you will be guaranteed to be granted this exemption. That being said, the CBSA has -never- violated this claim and always allow people to bring back their goods.

The reason I point this out is because the CBP is not focused on the value of your goods insofar as the substance you bring is legal, where as Canada can tax you on your exemption. The marked difference in attitudes of the respective entry agencies is different.
 

nightswhisper

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Feb 20, 2016
785
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I think it’s critical to understand that we are not dealing with a good faith negotiator on the other side of the table. This administration wants to beat us into submission. I think our negotiating team now realizes that they are dealing with a different animal.
Trump Administration is not obligated to give us a good deal. We are not entitled to a good deal, nor are we entitled to even a fair one. He has 320 million people to feed too.
 

nightswhisper

Member
Feb 20, 2016
785
9
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I can understand why we have some of these protectionist policies.. because we have limited business opportunities and market..
And four country as a whole has less population then California or the eastern states. And they would just dump product in Canada at low prices..
And that would impact the job market and manufacturing.
I hope he sticks to what best for Canada.
Give us a taxe break. So we can afford the higher prices.
Which came first? Did protectionism cause us to have non-competitive markets, or did non-competitive markets necessitate protectionism?

Food for thought.
 

BIGOZZIE

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Nov 13, 2008
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We've always needed protection or we'd have no industry at all because who can compete with them? Without tariffs we'd just be mining logging and maybe farming certain crops. Next time you shop for vegetables look at where they come from, even apples come from Washington and potatoes from Idaho because they're cheaper than ours.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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You can "claim" goods up to $800 in travel exemption, and you must have exited the country for more than 48 hours. Whether or not you are granted this exemption is subject to CBSA's wishes. Legally speaking, this doesn't mean you will be guaranteed to be granted this exemption. That being said, the CBSA has -never- violated this claim and always allow people to bring back their goods.

The reason I point this out is because the CBP is not focused on the value of your goods insofar as the substance you bring is legal, where as Canada can tax you on your exemption. The marked difference in attitudes of the respective entry agencies is different.
What?! The $800 exemption after 48 hours absence is the law, not some special favour that CBSA grants and they are concerned with the value of goods crossing the border.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
9,544
306
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In Lust Mostly
Canadian exports make up for only 2 - 4% of the American economy - a negligible amount that the Americans can supplant from elsewhere. The US congress will not likely make a move.

Canada has some of the highest trade barriers and tariffs in the world and has an extremely protectionist trade policy. The NAFTA agreement has traditionally exclusively benefited Canada at the cost of America.

If you've ever traveled abroad, or tried to ship items from the states, you'll note that anything above the value of 20 $ CAD will be taxed upon import into Canada, while this limit is 750 $ USD if you import into the states. We have high dairy, lumber, mineral, and petroleum taxes in addition to massive VAT across all goods. Everything coming into Canada is slapped with a tariff and the consumers pay for it. We are one of the worst violators of the free-trade agreement, and were only included in the old 1994 treaty as a courtesy for borrowed airspace for the American NORAD program. As a result, Canada has some of the most anti-competition policies in the world and our goods and services industry is dominated by inefficient manufacturers and government sponsored contracts.
Lots of rhetoric but as that lady used to say in the Wendy's commercial "where's the meat?" You haven't really made more than accusations without any links for back up for your claims.

You mention a lot of taxes that we as Canadians pay but the subject is Free Trade; the Americans do not have to pay one cent in Duties on export if the product is majority of US Made Parts. We on the other hand pay in BC GST and PST as consumers of anything we import. If a Canadian manufacturer buys parts from the US, they are again Duty Free and they pay GST/PST. That company also files GST tax returns and from some sort of amazing math, they get a tax return on GST. The PST is claimed on the Provincial Side of their company tax return. I know because I am incorporated and file these returns via my accountant.

So let's focus on Dairy since its hot topic with the Mango eL Presidente.

Canada has a marketing system where farmers are paid to produce X amount of dairy, eggs, chickens etc per year and it's purchase is guaranteed by Canada and the Provinces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_management_(Canada)

The US on the other hand annually gives the dairy farmers in the US $22B of their tax payers money (last numbers I recall being 2015) to support dairy producers in the US. They do not have a maximum amount that they are allowed to produce. Given the farmers are needing a financial handout annually, they are running balls out producing dairy and many are still on the brink of bankruptcy. This format is also used by the European Union. All of these countries have their own protectionist rules against foreign dairy products entering their countries. Case in point Canada's deal with the EU fell apart because the Cheese makers in Italy would never support any foreign cheese in Italy.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/american-dairy-farmers-depend-on-government-subsidies-673374473.html

Hence #45 trying to force the over production hormone laced piss tasting nasty US milk on the Canadians at what will most likely under cut our own farmers. We don't need their milk products and all it would do is undercut Canadian farms. Why would we ever support destroying our own dairy to get a deal with a megalomaniac who has openly showed his disdain for us?

And Guess What - our lumber is expensive because the US has always slapped duties on our lumber because the Billy Bob lumber companies in the South East USA are still using hand labour and have not modernized their own industry. Canada has for 3 decades had the most modern computerized systems employing lasers for exact cuts and do not have a labour intensive force because of our state of the art systems. The US has a different system where they sell the land to the large forestry companies at a huge discount and the company's grow their own timber and harvest it. Canada has crown land which they lease to forestry companies. Potato Pawtayto. Same thing but the US makes a big deal about it.

The claim our manufacturers are inefficient needs clarification. Which industries, where? I sell to OEM's across Canada and they would be holding back laughter if they read it. Everything is automated, barcoded, videoed, time stamped, robotics; you name it. These companies are well thought out and super efficient. Why, because our labour is expensive and to be competitive we need to have smart companies.

I am also interested in your claim that Canada is one of the worlds worst offenders of the Free Trade Agreement.

Canada has taken the US to the World Trade court and won every time. When it came to paying back the duties, they declined to pay up. Some fair freetrade agreement.

Canada giving Air Space to the USA as part of the 1994 Free Trade agreement? The US has had airspace to the Arctic since 1958. Where did you get that information? I'd love to read it.
 

nightswhisper

Member
Feb 20, 2016
785
9
18
We've always needed protection or we'd have no industry at all because who can compete with them? Without tariffs we'd just be mining logging and maybe farming certain crops. Next time you shop for vegetables look at where they come from, even apples come from Washington and potatoes from Idaho because they're cheaper than ours.
Bad policies from the Canadian government have destroyed our ability to compete. It isn't because we can't.

Tesla would be Canadian if Ontario didn't have such restrictive policies that forbade new investments in tech. Titanic would have been shot in Canada if National Film Board didn't mandate Canadian content. All of our mined materials would have been in Aerospace with Avro if Mulroney didn't suck a pile of dick with defective missiles in which case NASA would have been CASA.

We have educated some of the smartest people in the world but we have such shot policies they all leave for the states.
 

CanineCowboy

Active member
Feb 5, 2010
618
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Canadian exports make up for only 2 - 4% of the American economy - a negligible amount that the Americans can supplant from elsewhere. The US congress will not likely make a move.

Canada has some of the highest trade barriers and tariffs in the world and has an extremely protectionist trade policy. The NAFTA agreement has traditionally exclusively benefited Canada at the cost of America.

If you've ever traveled abroad, or tried to ship items from the states, you'll note that anything above the value of 20 $ CAD will be taxed upon import into Canada, while this limit is 750 $ USD if you import into the states. We have high dairy, lumber, mineral, and petroleum taxes in addition to massive VAT across all goods. Everything coming into Canada is slapped with a tariff and the consumers pay for it. We are one of the worst violators of the free-trade agreement, and were only included in the old 1994 treaty as a courtesy for borrowed airspace for the American NORAD program. As a result, Canada has some of the most anti-competition policies in the world and our goods and services industry is dominated by inefficient manufacturers and government sponsored contracts.
Check out the World Trade Organization's list of weighted mean applied tariffs by country - it completely contradicts your thesis, so I would love to know your source.

We are actually one of the freeest trading countries in the world (our rank is 16th) with lower tarriffs than the United States.
 
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