News today says the Canadian Federal Gov says they are not liable for cultural damage at the Kamloops residential school.
Next it will be school B, C, D ...
F F S
Next it will be school B, C, D ...
F F S
Truly heart breaking
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Stop. Please. Just. Stop. You clearly have no idea what you're saying. You say things with no substance and have no idea behind the meaning of the things you're saying.
There are some unwritten rules that most people live by. You have to take care of yourself before others. There's a reason why you're told to strap your own oxygen mask on a flight before helping others with theirs. When you've done all you need for yourself, then you can help your family, your friends, your community, your province, your country, your Earth. Why do people feel stronger affinity than others? Because of identity. You may identify yourself in the same structure (i.e. you're a brother, son, father, Vancouverite, BCer, Canadian, world citizen) or any of the many things that can comprise of your identity. People identify with this injustice because it's in their backyards. Within reason, we ought to take care of what's wrong at home before taking our worries abroad. If you've lived this long and you can't associate the feelings of sympathy with identity, then I don't know what type of help you need.
Please never use numbers again. Who are you to say 0.0017% is a small number? IMO 0.00000001% is too big a number if any of the deaths were unjustified. How insane do you have to be to think "oh only 0.0002% of Rwandans were murdered not 0.0003%, nothing to see here"?!?! Using numbers to compare things require proper things to compare to. There are likely few, if any, things you can compare this event to. Simply trying to justify your argument by saying "this number is small" is assinine, and trying to compare it to the Rwandan genocide might be even dumber.
The fact that these kids were in a residential school to begin with already makes them victims, which you just can't seem to comprehend. That's all there is to the views of the majority. Residential schools are bad, and the racial injustice towards First Nations existed for longer than most people realized. These kids don't have to be murdered or proven murdered for them to be victims. There doesn't even have to be 215, or 107, or 50, or even one for that matter. Even if 0% of the kids that passed through residential schools died while in attendance, that STILL doesn't justify what they went through, regardless of if it was a norm at the time!
If you haven't gone through what somebody else has gone through (hint, it's never the same through another person's eyes!), be curious and educate yourself. Don't assume your personal experience holds all the truths of this world. Someone else will always have something to teach you. The more you learn, the more you should be willing to change your views - but you have to be open to learning, and never assume that you've learned all that you can.
I left out the "over 100 years" because it's redundant in the context of average. You choosing to bring that back into the discussion just shows how inept you are. "15 kids per school per year" is no different than "15 kids per school per year over 100 years" when you're discussing the number of students per year - the number of years is meaningless - not to mention the fact that 15 kids per school per year is just flat out wrong as well. Not only was the so-called "data" that you brought up meaningless, it wasn't even correct. Justifying that by saying "is a statistical average and nothing more" clearly shows you are just typing words with no meaning to it. That alone can't be used to formulate an opinion, nor are you doing so either even though you volunteered it.
You presumed the kids to be victims by comparing it to a genocide, then proceeded to say that they're not victims until "proven", and then proceed to suggest alternatives after already having pushed for a coroners report to draw conclusions! You're not even trying to hide your racial bias anymore!
There are some unwritten rules that most people live by. You have to take care of yourself before others. There's a reason why you're told to strap your own oxygen mask on a flight before helping others with theirs. When you've done all you need for yourself, then you can help your family, your friends, your community, your province, your country, your Earth. Why do people feel stronger affinity than others? Because of identity. You may identify yourself in the same structure (i.e. you're a brother, son, father, Vancouverite, BCer, Canadian, world citizen) or any of the many things that can comprise of your identity. People identify with this injustice because it's in their backyards. Within reason, we ought to take care of what's wrong at home before taking our worries abroad. If you've lived this long and you can't associate the feelings of sympathy with identity, then I don't know what type of help you need.
Please never use numbers again. Who are you to say 0.0017% is a small number? IMO 0.00000001% is too big a number if any of the deaths were unjustified. How insane do you have to be to think "oh only 0.0002% of Rwandans were murdered not 0.0003%, nothing to see here"?!?! Using numbers to compare things require proper things to compare to. There are likely few, if any, things you can compare this event to. Simply trying to justify your argument by saying "this number is small" is assinine, and trying to compare it to the Rwandan genocide might be even dumber.
The fact that these kids were in a residential school to begin with already makes them victims, which you just can't seem to comprehend. That's all there is to the views of the majority. Residential schools are bad, and the racial injustice towards First Nations existed for longer than most people realized. These kids don't have to be murdered or proven murdered for them to be victims. There doesn't even have to be 215, or 107, or 50, or even one for that matter. Even if 0% of the kids that passed through residential schools died while in attendance, that STILL doesn't justify what they went through, regardless of if it was a norm at the time!
Misuse of allocated money to First Nations is a valid discussion but again, not relevant to the news - which again, is simply, residential schools are bad. You go on to minimize the victims again by effectively saying "shit happens". You are not being objective at all, if it isn't completely obvious by the end of the post. Calling you a racist at this point would be oversimplifying the views you harbour.
If you haven't gone through what somebody else has gone through (hint, it's never the same through another person's eyes!), be curious and educate yourself. Don't assume your personal experience holds all the truths of this world. Someone else will always have something to teach you. The more you learn, the more you should be willing to change your views - but you have to be open to learning, and never assume that you've learned all that you can.
clearly if it didn't happen to him it can't be real! you're gonna have to post evidence from anal swabs for that to be considered as fact! but it has to have happened to more than 0.0017% of the kids! otherwise that's too small of number for anyone to give a shit!
/s
Sorry for your pain. But your not gonna like what I have to say next.
Getting fucked in the ASS is not the same as genocide. It child abuse.
It seems that every body is leaning towards this "genocide" done by the Residential Schools. To me genocide is the killing of an people. So using numbers again some (under 5000) children out of some 150,000 children that attended these Residential Schools have died in the care of these schools.
When the coroner's report comes out, it won't matter what the kids in Kamloops died from, the press has already labeled it an genocide.
I 'm not saying shit did not happen. To the average person genocide is the killing of people. Rape and murder are not so controversial then genocide. Genocide sells more papers and gets the political clout/attention rather than murder and rape. Although is is mentioned above and in the ref below that rape and murder could be part of an genocidal plan. Aboriginal Leaders could of said, lets wait for the coroner's report, before outright saying it was genocide because it involve kids at a residential school. Political capital....
So that means 145,000 out of 150,000 kids that attended these Residential schools made it out alive. Abused but alive. Thats like 96% over the time of the Residential School system (which was over 100 years).
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
Have I mentioned before that the Aboriginals should be "Taxed". Land taxes and income tax... its only fair....
215 deaths over an 100 years, is not gonna effect any future event that is going to happen to the Aboriginals in Canada. Its all about political capital. There are Aboriginals leaders calling Kamloops a "genocide", with no given proof, just the accusation for political gain.Stop. Please. Just. Stop. You clearly have no idea what you're saying. You say things with no substance and have no idea behind the meaning of the things you're saying.
I left out the "over 100 years" because it's redundant in the context of average. You choosing to bring that back into the discussion just shows how inept you are. "15 kids per school per year" is no different than "15 kids per school per year over 100 years" when you're discussing the number of students per year - the number of years is meaningless - not to mention the fact that 15 kids per school per year is just flat out wrong as well. Not only was the so-called "data" that you brought up meaningless, it wasn't even correct. Justifying that by saying "is a statistical average and nothing more" clearly shows you are just typing words with no meaning to it. That alone can't be used to formulate an opinion, nor are you doing so either even though you volunteered it.
You presumed the kids to be victims by comparing it to a genocide, then proceeded to say that they're not victims until "proven", and then proceed to suggest alternatives after already having pushed for a coroners report to draw conclusions! You're not even trying to hide your racial bias anymore!
There are some unwritten rules that most people live by. You have to take care of yourself before others. There's a reason why you're told to strap your own oxygen mask on a flight before helping others with theirs. When you've done all you need for yourself, then you can help your family, your friends, your community, your province, your country, your Earth. Why do people feel stronger affinity than others? Because of identity. You may identify yourself in the same structure (i.e. you're a brother, son, father, Vancouverite, BCer, Canadian, world citizen) or any of the many things that can comprise of your identity. People identify with this injustice because it's in their backyards. Within reason, we ought to take care of what's wrong at home before taking our worries abroad. If you've lived this long and you can't associate the feelings of sympathy with identity, then I don't know what type of help you need.
Please never use numbers again. Who are you to say 0.0017% is a small number? IMO 0.00000001% is too big a number if any of the deaths were unjustified. How insane do you have to be to think "oh only 0.0002% of Rwandans were murdered not 0.0003%, nothing to see here"?!?! Using numbers to compare things require proper things to compare to. There are likely few, if any, things you can compare this event to. Simply trying to justify your argument by saying "this number is small" is assinine, and trying to compare it to the Rwandan genocide might be even dumber.
The fact that these kids were in a residential school to begin with already makes them victims, which you just can't seem to comprehend. That's all there is to the views of the majority. Residential schools are bad, and the racial injustice towards First Nations existed for longer than most people realized. These kids don't have to be murdered or proven murdered for them to be victims. There doesn't even have to be 215, or 107, or 50, or even one for that matter. Even if 0% of the kids that passed through residential schools died while in attendance, that STILL doesn't justify what they went through, regardless of if it was a norm at the time!
Misuse of allocated money to First Nations is a valid discussion but again, not relevant to the news - which again, is simply, residential schools are bad. You go on to minimize the victims again by effectively saying "shit happens". You are not being objective at all, if it isn't completely obvious by the end of the post. Calling you a racist at this point would be oversimplifying the views you harbour.
If you haven't gone through what somebody else has gone through (hint, it's never the same through another person's eyes!), be curious and educate yourself. Don't assume your personal experience holds all the truths of this world. Someone else will always have something to teach you. The more you learn, the more you should be willing to change your views - but you have to be open to learning, and never assume that you've learned all that you can.
The fact that less than 1% of all Residential school dead are at Kamloops; doesn't even begin to begin to come close for any type of numbers for any kind of genocide. Considered all we know right now is the opening and closing date of the Kamloops school (open for what 100 years and only 215 dead). The total might come to 5000 to 5600 over 100 years(for all the schools). 150,000 kids went through those schools (that left 96% still alive). How the fuck is that genocide? Considering the time the schools were open (100years??) . The press is already calling it that through interview with Aboriginal chiefs.
You say I am trying to minimize the 215 dead. Who cares, they are dead, probably for longer than I been alive, and I didn't know them. Neither did you.
As I said before people are trying to analyze the stuff from long time ago (these dead kids) by todays standards(up to date bleeding heart shit, I gotta cry because social media says I have to). The maximizing of political gain by calling it a genocide only falls towards one agenda--- more money......
There is an guy at work, you don't know so well, his kid dies. The nest time you talk to him you say "sorry for your loss". Really do you mean that, or is it just a social norm.
Have I mentioned before the Aboriginals should pay land and income tax.
I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you. Nobody short of yourself gives a shit about how you define genocide. You do not speak for "the average person" (if you do, I may become religious to pray for better days). How can you possibly link a reference to the Wikipedia entry for Genocide, where it explicitly says:
The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. Victims have to be deliberately, not randomly, targeted because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups outlined in the above definition.[4][5][6][7]
You seem to not know how to not contradict yourself. The purpose of residential school meets the United Nations Genocide Convention definition of genocide... which probably has more to say on the topic than you. You don't like it being called genocide because you don't agree with its definition, so you resort to calling it a political move. It does not matter if it is a political move or not if what you are arguing is whether it is considered a genocide. At first you try to normalize the situation by saying that was what it was like back then and now that the shit don't stick you want to argue the definition of genocide?! Give it a break, dude. Ending that post with 96% "made it out abused but alive" has got to be one of the most willfully ignorant things I've ever read in my life.
"Hey you got fucked in the ass? At least you're alive!" - said no one ever, except 80watts
Ignoring "215 deaths over an 100 years" is akin to ignoring the atrocities of WW2 because it happened in the past. Surely, a different scale, but who are you to judge what lessons should and shouldn't be learned from history (spoiler alert, you might not like this, but there are lessons to be learned from this)? Again, you're obsessed with the notion of political gains because you harbour racist views against First Nations. It's an easy cop out for perspectives that make complete sense, but you do not agree with because you are purposely ignorant.
"Who cares" that 215 kids died some time ago? I do, and it's probably fair to say that a significant portion of the country, who have enough of their shit together to care for their neighbours also care. Why is that? Because as I've said, there are things to be learned here, which have been beaten to death already by various posters, but you've chosen to not accept. You choose to victimize your precious tax dollars and choose to not even attempt to understand the difficulties that First Nations went through, which on its own have more dependencies than you would typically see discussed. It would appear to me that you deeply care about money - so much so that you're willing to distort the news so that it supports your biased narrative, all the while denying that you are biased and have said things that are just flat out incorrect by any measure.
Lastly... what the fuck is wrong with you? I'm fortunate enough to have the capability to feel sympathy. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. Feeling sympathy for the death of a coworker's (even one I don't know well) is fairly innate to my (and most people, but perhaps not you) nature. I feel sympathy for the First Nations community, and I'm absolutely blessed to have my shit together well enough that I can exert concern (at least enough to post here) for my province and country.
Have I mentioned... for someone who has seemingly walked this Earth for many years, you seem to have tunneled your world views in an embarrassingly narrow manner. You don't seem to have the slightest clue what equality in opportunity means and where that starts. But hey, at least you're open about being racist, you've got that going for you.
I do not know what your background or your ancestry is but you sure show disrespect towards indigenous communities sad!,
Back tax the churches. All of them. Hell you could probably put a real dent in the long term federal debt with that revenue stream. But it may be a class action civil suit against them will take care of all their wealth.
But that doesn't help this situation of cultural and spiritual suppression, child abuse, pedophilia, probably murder. The final numbers, if a proper accounting is done of this dark part of what organized religion has given our history, are going to be staggering. If for one am not going to fixate on the numbers, it's the atrocities that need to be disclosed and dealt with in whatever way the system can provide.
And if possible, closure for those families.
Sorry dude but you're just gaslighting,minimalizing what happened. And that's all I have to say to you.
Why do I have to show respect to Aboriginals? They don't pay land or income taxes. Yet this last year 20 billion of your tax dollars went to Aboriginal Groups. All because they whined.... He who whines the most get the most....
I think we need Harper back; to get an itemized list of how the Aboriginals spend your tax money.... (Which caused Aboriginals to vote for Trudeau in record numbers). Trudeau threw them a bone.
Guess what... that probe into the missing women was a smoke show, why because its a proven fact, that usually if someone is murdered, they know that person (its not a random act). Same goes true for Aboriginals. Aboriginal distrust of the RCMP have hampered any investigation into these deaths. The Aboriginal point of view is that it some type of attack by white men, trying to kill them all. Its their own people.... Think on that.
Why do I have to be politically correct and kowtow to Aboriginal demands for more money. This genocide accusation of theirs, is only a big whopping stick to smack the federal government over the head with. IN OTHER words they are using it to make us feel sorry for them and get a bigger cash deal.....
I really don't give a fuck about Aboriginals other then that they pay their fair amount of taxes in land taxes and income tax. Canada might even get a balance budget when that happens.
And pls don't call me a racist, because I have a different point of view on things.
Whereas Aboriginals are maximizing the exposure and inflaming the finding of the 215 dead children and calling it a genocide. Before finding what the children died from?
You said you wanted to wait for the coroner's report....
One word for all Aboriginals --- TAXES
The one thing sure in life are taxes and death. The coming conflict with Aboriginals and the Governments will be over taxes, land and income taxes...
And why is it bad to minimalize, I only compared the number of dead children in Kamloops to the number of deaths in Rawanda, which had higher numbers of dead.
You seem to be under the impression that 100% of all aboriginal people pay absolutely no taxes whatsoever, no matter where the live or work, and that this has a humongous impact on the tax revenue collected by Canada.
4 Facts about Indigenous People and Taxes (ictinc.ca)
Excerpt:
"Most income, sales and property tax exemptions only apply to status Indians (637,660) who live or work on a reserve. Less than half of all registered status Indians live on reserve so the number who are actually eligible for tax exemptions amounts to about 314,000 people. [1] To put it in perspective, somewhat less than half of all registered status Indians live on reserve so less than 1% of the total population of Canada are exempt from paying certain taxes."
You're a tiny bit not too smart, aren't you?
Just the fact that there are 215 corpses buried that no one had any idea of its existence makes it a crime scene. It doesn't matter what they died of. They were buried without proper funeral rites and no record of their burial. The only records that probably exist are being withheld by the Catholic Church and they will never divulge them. All this plus what we know of the physical, sexual and mental abuses and sick experimentation going on in residential schools over the years as told by countless survivors, it makes it a tad bit suspicious don'tcha think?
The fact that the feds have just thrown money at them over the years has NOTHING to do with this! We're talking about human lives here...someone's little girl, brother, sister, niece, nephew, grandson!
So take your right hand, guide it towards your ass, take your giant head out of it and stop saying ignorant, insensitive things!
Panther
Here's a hint. Residential schools, run by the Catholic Church, sanctioned by the government were ostensibly meant to be a sort of custodial protective institute, albeit criminally misguided and perverted. They weren't meant to be held up as a body count tally against cases of mass genocide.
And they got 20 billion last year....
And yes I know it only on reserves that tax exempt is applied. If you live on a reserve you can go off the reserve and buy stuff tax free. But look at the land taxes alone could be millions. Just locally look at Vancouver, and Victoria. How much is that? How about those millionaire chiefs, who don't pay income tax who live on the reserve.
Well what other tax free benefits do they get? Gratuities. To the local chief, when he shows up for some government function/media event. eg . opening of legislature etc... Just to show that the government is in nice with the local Band etc.etc etc... ohhh tax free...... What do they make 3000-10000 for a engagement.....
Well I say they need to pay taxes, just the the rest of us. Why? Because it is only fair, to be treated the same as every other Canadian, isn't that what everybody is trying to tell me. Isn't that what the Aboriginals want to be treated the same as us. Taxes will help there....
Any argument that starts with "they were here first". Well that holds swamp water. Why the oldest is now what 100. The ancestors are dead but they didn't own the land. They had wars between their tribes and yes tribes were moved off their land by other tribes. Why does our government have to try to be so nice and make it up to them?
But 20 billion is alot for money for less than 1% of the population that doesn't contribute to the Canadian economy in any way. And that was for just 1 year. Why the fuck do you think when the feds do budgets they don't advertise how much is spent on Aboriginal Affairs?
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So would you like to pay out of your pocket book for all the money the Aboriginals will make over this?? In case you don't know, you already are through your taxes....
PantherDash you are going in the wrong direction with the family lines, its more than likely grand uncle or great grand aunt. Those graves are somewhere between 1900 and 1960s. A girl, niece, nephew, and grandson would indicate a much older person related to these dead 215 kids. Have to assume the dead in the graves didn't have children. Yes I am being an ass, because you are being one too.
People are saying I 'm being callous about the dead 215 kids, when I pointed out more kids died in Rawanda, I was accused of minimizing the impact of the deaths of these 215 kids. Its an emotional response.
Why should I be empathic to that, just because you think I should be empathic. Cause that would be the politically correct thing to do? The reality is that more kids died in Rawanda and everyone here jumping on my case, thinks that the 215 kids that died at a residential school is somehow more important than the kids that died in Rawanda.
It Isn't.
Its a tragedy that people get stuck on the "horseshit" lines political correctness is. So I like to ask "Who has their Head up their Ass"??
Now for future debates some idiot should bring up reconciliation. who wants to start..... Preferably someone who pays income tax and land taxes.....
I faced punishment many times in primary school (not residential school) for speaking a different dialect. It seems there is a motive behind the way the schools function. Students are being treated as if they were programs being written by a developer, they must run certain sequences by the end of the term, if they do not they are erased. Quite sad really.
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