You’d be surprised how many uneducated people there are out there , honestly I had no idea any of this happened till a few years ago . 😞
Truly heart breaking
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I can see why, but still wonder why this 215 number has been accepted without question. That is a very precise figure, but GPR is notoriously imprecise and often gives vague, indistinct images. They can be interpreted in many ways. The only way to know what's really under the ground, is to dig. That may confirm the number, or may show a much smaller number, and even possibly not all human remains.
Not to discount what happened to Native children at residential schools, it was mosly horrible, but there is also a heavy activist, political aspect to this announcement that will only allow one rtype of response.
Not to discount what happened to Native children at residential schools, it was mosly horrible, but there is also a heavy activist, political aspect to this announcement that will only allow one rtype of response.
What if the number is 107 then? Is it any less significance? 107 is also a "very precise figure". People become obsessed with the "facts" and conveniently forget the story that the facts attempt to portray.
If I have to hear "not to discount" again...
(*I haven't read through this thread, but beginning towards the last few posts) For one, I personally knew about residential schools, because my own mother and some relatives were "students" and all mainly survivors from their time spent there. If I hadn't been told of this fact and partial stories of these accounts, I would never had learned about it in our educational system.
There are numbers to consider. The number of schools from across Canada and the countless of children taken from their families, who either survived, died (natural causes, disease or failed attempts of running away), perished, were murdered, abused to death and committed suicide. We will never know what this total is, because Indigenous lives never mattered and still do not to present day.
First Nations people have to fight for damn near everything they want to acquire, keep and protect!!
Questioning these numbers is redundant to non Indigenous people. What should be the only fact of the matter is and the only response needed, was to know it was wrong and vile from the very beginning.
How dare colonizers set up institutions to teach the Natives to the country they stole, their ways of living and religion, because theirs was the white way and not the wrong way. I'm not even going to get into their methods and the abuse, because luvdaty has already taken the time to share some great details. And I admire your diligence in sharing to this topic luvdaty as it is going to be a tough and emotional conversation to have.
Stop being that white person discounting realities. Not validating stories and facts surfacing now and making it your own to question. Wondering about the total of bodies of children...CHILDREN being found. And educate yourself, listen to those who speak about their pain and emotions and sympathize that their are some families who may finally be able to bury their loved ones with tradition and dignity.
And to those 215 lost souls, the others documented and the ones not documented, May the Creator keep you loved and at peace. Miigwech.
It is one of the most horrific crimes that has gone unsolved with no justice or restitution for families in recent history. My condolences to all of the families. One must ask though, "How did it go on for so long without it being known?" My guess is that there are many reasons for this. Who would have the courage, or will to go after the Catholic Church and go against people that were well respected and revered in their community at the time? Sure you could find out things way later about what was going on, but you can imagine how easy it would have been to bury history in those days. What probably ended up happening was everyone except the victims decided it was easier to just move on from it, and since the victims had no political pull or anyone to advocate for them it was lost in history. Very sad. I hope the families get closure one day
No restitution is not necessarily true. The federal government doled out $10,000 reparations to living survivors. I suppose it was a small token, but a slap in the face towards those who had passed away prior to this decision. Also, a slap in the face, that it is thought a mere $10,000 will make up for this travesty, emotional scars and abuse.
It went on for so long, because it was legalized and funded by the government in the Indian Act. It went on for so long, because these children were scared to talk about it. They began believing the abuse was the normal part of their time in these institutions. They were taught to be ashamed of their old ways and to talk about these stories long afterwards. Survivors aren't being silenced anymore! Nor are their ancestors.
It went on for so long, because it was legalized and funded by the government in the Indian Act. It went on for so long, because these children were scared to talk about it. They began believing the abuse was the normal part of their time in these institutions. They were taught to be ashamed of their old ways and to talk about these stories long afterwards. Survivors aren't being silenced anymore! Nor are their ancestors.
My parents wouldn't teach me my native language simply because they felt ashamed of it. It's basically an extinct language and we're it still exists It's a homogenized version of what it once was. I'm lucky if I know 100 words in my own language.
Wait for a corner's report, everyone been jumping onto the bangwagon of "genocide". See what the kids died of first!!!!!!
If my cavalier attitude is so bad, what about all the third world countries that had children die yesterday..... Bet you some money it was more than 215 (and jesus x christ the papers don't tell us when they died at all- have to wait for a coroner's report). I don't hear any of you bandwagon jumpers giving stats for those dead children. Are you bandwagon jumpers all concerned that it happened in Canada.... Oh God, it can't happen in Canada.... Or maybe mention how many kids died last year in Canada.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/444903/number-of-deaths-in-canada-by-age-group/
My point is that abuse was happening at all orphanages during the last 140 years not just at residential schools. In the last 30-40 there has been more social control over these places, but back in the 1920s, abuse was probally standard. Corporal punishment reigned supreme..... because it was thought it was disicpline for the kids...not just in residential schools...
Now people have to start thinking for themselves, ask some questions... Why at the time of Confederation did the Fed gov start Residential Schools. Why did they pass a law that made aboriginals attend these schools? How were kids disiplined back then.
Think about that in todays context. Why do you send kids to school? Becauses it is law to send them to school. What happens when the kids get abused? What if no one finds out about the abuse, but shows up in social media. Did not the first Aborignals that went to University, not go to residential schools? Where did they learn to read and write before they went to university.... I'm going to take a wild guess- residential school.
History has only seen the end result of the residential schools; for good or bad. The bandwagon people are saying that residential schools were evil. The intent should of been to educate, but ended up elsewhere. Did abuse happen at all the schools? I don't know, but odds are it was who was in charge and who taught there; that dictated if abuses happened.
You Also have to remember that these Residential Schools were very isolated from society (white and Aboriginal). Also Institutions would send their "bad boys" someplace where the public would not see them or get them out from your neck of the woods. I would use the case of the "bad boys"/problem child from CF regiments being sent to the "Airborne" division (Somali Scandal in the 1990s).
Also the Aboriginal Community get serious political points with the residential school issue. After all I saw one new resport where the chief used the word genocide (again without the autopsy of a coroner). I think they keep bringing it up, just to get more money in their land claims. Let us look at the average school on a reservation now. How big is the truancy rate? Do the parents make their kids go to school and behave at school, in order for them to get a education? I think the real stats will not surprize anyone. Maybe you should talk to the teachers that had contracts on reservations to teach kids, but never went back after their contract expired.
What is a favourite scene in movies about nuns and rulers (Blues Brothers).... kids gots their knuckles wrapped....So physical abuse was always there....For white or aboriginal....
If someone I know kids died then I would care, because I knew them. All of the kids that died yesterday and last year in the world and Canada, I didn't know them, overall no I don't care that they died.... why because I didn't know them personally.... Trying to emphasize with every death, would just make anyone a basket case....
Shit happens and life moves on. Its the human condition.....
Pls wait for a coroner's report....................................................................................
I used the numbers Luvsdaty used in his post.
Your response was "you get 15 kids per school per year that attended Residential Schools"
Whereas the original was "you get 15 kids per school per year that attended Residential Schools over 100 years" .
This is an statisitcal average.... nothing more....
The report I read said about 2800 kids died in the residential school system. It might be higher I don't know. So lets double that... to say 5600 kids... Now 800, 000 killed in Rawanda vs 5600 kids (who died residential schools over 100 years of time) in Canada. Probally more kids died in Rawanda, wonder how come you are not upset over that, its a greater number.
Both are tragedies but of different scale. Rawanda being alot bigger.... But people are getting upset over 215 kids (with no confirmed cause of death) who died, due to unknown causes at this time (autopsy report!!!!!).
That 0.0017% shows how little the total kids in that grave over 150,000 lifetime students in the Residential school system that died in Kamloops. Same thing with the Rawandians that were killed they were less than 0.0002% of the worlds poplution at the time.
STOP MINIMIZING THE VICTIMS.---- They are not VICTIMS until the coroner says they were murdered.... I guess someone jumped on the bandwagon without even noticing he did it....
A mass grave usually an indication of disease or war (which can include genocide). Like the 1919 influenza that killed over 20 million.
You know what is funny is that Trudeau got elected the first time on promises to the Aboriginals, and it has been publicly the status quo (politically correct) to bend over backward for the Aboriginals since then. When Harper was in he was gonna cut funding due to irregularities on how the money given Aboriginals were spent; mainly on salaries of chief and counsil members. What will happen when the Liberal loose the next election.... and the PC cut spending and raise taxes.....to balance the books (haven't heard that since the 1990s).
Its sad what has happened to these Aboriginals, but has all this rape, murder and abuse happened to all the Aboriginal kids, that went to Residential Schools? I don't know, but if can't statistically have happened for every one of them. Did it happened everyday, or only when they broke the rules or when the priest was horny....Could this shit still happen today. You bet your ass it still does. Rape still happens. Murder still happens. People assault other people every day. This shit doesn't just happen to kids, it happens to adults too. It happens to every race on this earth.
The Lord's Prayer was abandoned/banned in public school because of its religious context (why kids of another religion should say it). I predict that schools will be saying prayers for the dead children of Aboriginals for years to come. How about that influence....
I'm sorry but the best thing the governments in Canada can do for the Aboriginals is to TAX them.... See how they feel about paying taxes and supporting the less fortunate.
Really was I justifying atrocities? Is one atrocity against an Aboriginal greater than one that happened to another kid, or to a Rwandan. The answer is NO.
The problem is that there is no autopsy report to say that those 215 kids were murdered. There hasn't been an autopsy done yet. No one knows how those kids died, and anyone that is citing anything else is jumping to conclusions without any evidence on the kids buried in the grave at Kamloops. Political machinations at work.....
Right now it is politically correct to say/insinuate that the Residential School issue was that the Residential Schools were only there to do genocide to the Aboriginals. An argument could be stated that because there are Aboriginals alive today, that this is a false assumption. If the government of Canada wanted to wipe out the Aboriginals they would have done it already. Look it happened in Newfoundland, they killed all the Aboriginals there.
Bad things happened to nice people. It happens everyday. Bad things happened to the Aboriginals, they need to get over it and move on with life.
Now is the time to tax the Aboriginals, after all , all the money they get comes from the taxpayer. It would be ironic by paying Aboriginals with their own money......
So from now on, whenever someone brings about how abused the Aboriginals are, I'll just reply "TAX them".....
WTF?
Maybe don't use that case ok?
You think getting in is easy? Go try it.
Airborne is an achievement to be proud of for the rest of your life.
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Genocide is exactly what the residential schools were for.
Genocide is not necessarily about mass murder. It is the erasing of a specific group (genus). It can be done by assimilation.
Read up on "The White Man's Burden".
The intent in the schools was to convert FN children into white children. Their language and cultural practices were banned.
Erasing Indians by turning them into mainstream whiteys is definitely genocide.
Genocide is not necessarily about mass murder. It is the erasing of a specific group (genus). It can be done by assimilation.
Read up on "The White Man's Burden".
The intent in the schools was to convert FN children into white children. Their language and cultural practices were banned.
Erasing Indians by turning them into mainstream whiteys is definitely genocide.
Good gravy you really haven't a clue. You keep trying to pretend that residential school was just like every other school at the time. You're wearing blinders to the cultural genocide that happened all across Canada for the entire time that these schools were in operation
Like I said dude,ask any elder or even someone my age that survived residential school. Getting fucked in the ass was an everyday occurrence, it was a fuckfest orgy from the priests to the nuns to the cleaning staff,if there was an ass to fuck they fucked hard and daily. Mention the word Pep Chew too anyone that survived the Port Alberni rez school and they'll know exactly who your talking about,a sick fuck named Arthur Henry Plint. He was a janitor that would bribe kids after said ass fucking with a Pep Chew chocolate bar to keep their mouth shutI don't know how much plainer I can explain it to you. Both my parents experienced this shit,believe it,don't believe it but if I were a betting man I'd say you don't want to believe it anyways so what I've said is on deaf ears anyways.But by all means,let's wait for the coroner's report.
hmmmmm
Heart breaking it is.... genocide.....not a chance.... a tragedy... for sure
Jews killed by German ..... genocide
800, 000 killed in Rawanda....genocide
So now what..... we are gonna go around and dig all the grounds around all the schools and spend millions .....for what.....
I say let them rest in peace where the were buried......
Since 2016, more than 7,000 people have died of an overdose in Vancouver.....
Rampant homelessness in the country.....
So let concentrate on issues at hand rather then something you can't do anything about.....
Heart breaking it is.... genocide.....not a chance.... a tragedy... for sure
Jews killed by German ..... genocide
800, 000 killed in Rawanda....genocide
So now what..... we are gonna go around and dig all the grounds around all the schools and spend millions .....for what.....
I say let them rest in peace where the were buried......
Since 2016, more than 7,000 people have died of an overdose in Vancouver.....
Rampant homelessness in the country.....
So let concentrate on issues at hand rather then something you can't do anything about.....
Just for clarity:
"The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. Victims have to be deliberately, not randomly, targeted because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups outlined in the above definition." (from Wikipedia)
Like many others I used to think that "genocide" meant literally murdering people, but the definition does not require murder, although in most genocides a lot of people die. I don't see any room to deny that the intention of the residential schools was genocide according to the UN definition.
"The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. Victims have to be deliberately, not randomly, targeted because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups outlined in the above definition." (from Wikipedia)
Like many others I used to think that "genocide" meant literally murdering people, but the definition does not require murder, although in most genocides a lot of people die. I don't see any room to deny that the intention of the residential schools was genocide according to the UN definition.
I sure you look at your face in mirror , you look at thing near and surround you.
You can not minimize Canadian tragedy with Rowanda tragedy!it illogical.
We your theory Holocast such big magnitude so you ignore other smaller atrocities?
Its a comparison.
The regimental commanders sloughed off their problem-children (disipline problems etc) to the airborne. Not saying that the requirements to get in didn't change (mostly it was physical and toughness). It was the Somali scandal that got the airborne shut down. Some of these problem-children were the cause of some shit that happened in Somali. That was the widespread start of the Harassment policies being enforced in the rest of the Forces, unfortunately that included sexual harassment. Obviously Leadership fucked the sexual harassment up too. And here we are 25 years later....
The comparison is dealing with your problem-child instead of getting rid of your problem and making that person someone's else's problem. For office workers that shuffle them to the back office where there are no windows....
You should read Tarnished Brass... In it a former Regimental CO talks about how when he took over his regiment, he had to bring in MPs undercover for drug use in the Unit, whereas the former commander had a clean record (by hiding the drug abuse). For a CO to get a good write-up he had to have a perfect unit. If you had drugs in your unit, well your write up was not good.... All about perception. And its about Leadership. To the upper management it was about keeping the Forces out of a bad light. To everyone else it was shut-up and keep your head down.
I didn't mention the Holocaust (German concentration camps).
As for Canadian Tragedy vs Rowandan Tragedy..... I did and said both were a Tragedy. There is a difference in numbers between the two by a factor of 800,000 divided by (5600- I've seen 2100, 4100 as the number of missing Aboriginal children, but I use 5600), which is 140:1 approximately. For you people who cant see the scale of things...
Lets recount the facts so far in the case of Dead kids found in Kamloops.
They were found by sonar/ground penetrating radar.
They the people who did the survey have found up to 215 buried bodies.
None of the bodes of these 215 bodies have been dug up.
Therefore no one in the world knows what killed them, or how they ended up dead.
There have been accusations that all these bodies are part of a "genocide". That has not been proven yet. Yet people are out there saying that it is genocide. I wonder who gains by saying that is was genocide?
And yes Aboriginals need to "tax them".....
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