To Demonize

80watts

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May 20, 2004
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Looking at Twitter and the amount of BLM content people are putting up, I saw some comments made about old cartoons and how politically incorrect they were. One opinion was to run them as they were to people could see how incorrect they were in those decades past.
Also there was crap about war with China. So if there was a war, what would be call the enemy to de-humanise them.
I got to thinking about past wars and what the troops called the enemy.
In WW1 and WW2 the Germans were called Krauts, and Jerries.
In the Korean and Vietnam wars there was the word gook.
These names were there to demonize the enemy, to make them easier to kill. Why, kinda hard to kill the enemy if you relate to them.

So the general, says you have to eliminate the red force (or blue force, or yellow force), just dosen't have the same effect if you don't demonize the enemy, especially when going into combat.

So if people wonder why racism is still around, it systemic of the fact that you have to demonize the enemy, otherwise your army is just a bunch of murderers. Its a way of justifying the killing in war.

Why go to war?
Resources, Religion, control of areas with resources, to obtain power or control, to prevent others from that same control, to obtain the land, to eliminate a people. In the past more wars were started by religious means, most ended because of economic (could no longer afford the war). Read Sun-Tzu The Art of War, business men read it.

I would like to think that war would be eliminated but there will always be war. At the nation level, at the business level, at the personal level, and also things like the war on drugs, poverty, illiteracy, anti-vaccinations etc. There is always a cause and therefore a war of some type.
But lets use a better more accurate name for war..... Conflict. The cyclic conflict of man.

Now to be a better man, not to demonize people you are in conflict with. It could be on par with the lions lying down with the sheep....
 

sybian

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Dec 23, 2014
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We called them Taliban. We didn’t go to obtain anything, we went to stop them from cutting off women and children’s heads, after they would gang rape them.
They didn’t need demonization, they had that covered pretty well themselves.....it wasn’t real hard to let the air out of them.
 
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MissingOne

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Jan 2, 2006
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... So if people wonder why racism is still around, it systemic of the fact that you have to demonize the enemy, otherwise your army is just a bunch of murderers. Its a way of justifying the killing in war. ...
There's lots of racism out there that has nothing to do with war. There have been lots of wars that have nothing to do with racism. Racism and war may intersect, and in some circumstances feed upon each other, but they are separate evils.
 

Uncled

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Aug 9, 2014
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Interesting quote about World War I:

"The war was an excuse, as it has always been, for men to run away from women".

I can't remember the name of the book that I read that in.
 

JimDandy

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"The war was an excuse, as it has always been, for men to run away from women".
If that is true, a significant percentage were running away from their mothers since a major portion of the cannon fodder in the first 2 WWs were barely old enough to be called adult. And less than half were married.

JD
 
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Quarter Mile'r

Injected and Blown
May 17, 2005
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And just imagine being trained to fly and at the controls of a Spitfire fighter plane going around
400 mile an hour. You have earned the wings of flight lieutenant and then maybe captain
if you live long enough. you're scrambled flying out of Biggin Hill (11 group), commanded by Air Vice
Marshall Kieth Park. Ordered to make angels 19, you search for the bastards......OH SHIT!!!!

you look left, you look right............oh shit again.
You didn't look up and the hun in the sun in a ME109 just blew your balls off in a flaming wreck.

You were 19, maybe 20yrs old.

Racism?, no time to think of that then.
It just comes with the job, MAYBE if you survived long enough!!!!




........................QM'r
 
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80watts

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There were more military deaths in WW1 then in WW2.
In WW1 it was the generals who kept feeding divisions into a battle (some called it piece-meal), with lots of casualties and no gains (some units were wiped out and others took 90% casualties). Took them along time to get out of that bad habit. After the war there was steep criticism about how the generals handled the war.
In WW2 there were fed into battle with acceptable limits of casualties (somewhere around 70%) depending on the operation.

The thing is if you know the enemy is human, it is harder to kill/wound them. If they are considered lower forms/demonized, it is easier to kill the enemy.
Dehumanizing someone, it becomes easier to kill them. You need some type of logic to justify killing them; the killer has to be given a compelling reason to kill, to justify killing the enemy(ie motivation). As a killer you need to be/feel superior to them and that gives you the justification for killing. Hatred is the best emotion for that justification.

Does a hunter feel for the deer he just killed. No he just killed the deer for food. He might feel bad he killed the deer, but it was for his own best interest. In the long run the hunter survives both mentally and physically.

Its psychological. Look at military target practice, always a picture of a human head/silhouette of a body etc. Why? So you subconciously think you are killing another human when you shoot at them. Soldiers could argue that they are just shooting at any other target.... Symbology...

Now add a phrase "Shoot that gook", "Kill the Jerry", "the only good Jerry is a dead Jerry" etc. Gallows humour? or making the subject inferior?

Look at Nazi Germany. The Holocaust. From the German point of view they were getting rid of vermin (rats). To kill the Jew and undesirables the German propaganda dehumanized the Jews and others. Called them filth, diseased etc. separated them into their own communities in cities. Made them wear the jewish star to make them stand out. Eventually they sent them to concentration camps where most perished, living under sub-human conditions.

So were all Germans in Germany at the time Racist? Inherently not, but it happened anyway....
 

VinVan

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So were all Germans in Germany at the time Racist? Inherently not, but it happened anyway....
“Inherently not,” If, as in, we are all born without racism, and if we do end up racist, it is an ideology that was learned. But in Germany, the vast majority of its citizens were complicit in the Nazi barbarism and their racism. They may not have been aware of the darkest acts at Buchenwald, but they were there burning books and looting Jewish homes. We all have free will and during that period as a German you were in or out. Most were in, and racist.

The corollary to the BLM is a straight line: either you’re with it, or against it. Shit or get off the pot. If you’re with the movement, acknowledge your privilege and grow as a human. If you’re against it, great - everyone will know your position in the arc of humanity.
 

Metaxa

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Apr 25, 2020
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You're trying to boil down a complex subject, and simplify it to the point of losing the nuance entirely. Nations go to war for a variety of reasons, read whomever's book(s) on the subject for various theories (von Clausewitz has a number of interesting arguments about why a nation would go to war, or for an entirely different perspective you could read Chris Hedges' book "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning"). Individuals go to war for entirely different reasons altogether, it may be patriotism, it may be to be part of a movement larger than oneself, it may be hatred or to seek vengeance, or it could be youthful ignorance or outright adventurism.

Read war memoirs, and see what the individuals who were there had to say - many will speak of adventurism, or youthful naivety - and most will also speak of the untold horrors...

It's also rather interesting reading memoirs written by those on the "other side"; individuals like Adolf Galland of the Luftwaffe, or Grand Adrmiral Doenitz, von Manstein, etc.
Interesting times. I’m in my mid-sixties so my parents both grew up during the Great Recession and World War Two. I’ve had a pretty blessed life in terms of economic opportunity and world peace. I remember the protests in the sixties and how the world was going to be radically changed. I remember the communist paranoia of the 60’s and running home from school during the Cuban Missile Crisis when the air raid siren went off. The zeitgeist shifted for the better over the next 55 years and the west was generally stable

The wild card this time is a pandemic, combined with historic wealth inequality, historic unemployment and deficits and incompetent political leaders in both Canada and the US.
 

Metaxa

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We can all agree that racism is a bad thing but I’m curious why, if it has been so prevalent in Canada for so many years, that it took the killing of a black man in Minnesota to raise the consciousness of those now marching in Canada?
 

zippy45

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Apr 7, 2014
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We called them Taliban. We didn’t go to obtain anything, we went to stop them from cutting off women and children’s heads, after they would gang rape them.
They didn’t need demonization, they had that covered pretty well themselves.....it wasn’t real hard to let the air out of them.
But we, and I mean the US were very happy sending the weapons and money when the fought the Russians, they were doing all this long before the US got involved, safe to say they have been doing this for about 2000 years. And if you think we didn't go to obtain anything you are deluded, no country spends its gold/lives/whatever if there isn't something in it for them. I actually think you are a great poster on her Sybian, but I could'nt let that pass.
 
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Metaxa

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But we, and I mean the US were very happy sending the weapons and money when the fought the Russians, they were doing all this long before the US got involved, safe to say they have been doing this for about 2000 years. And if you think we didn't go to obtain anything you are deluded, no country spends its gold/lives/whatever if there isn't something in it for them. I actually think you are a great poster on her Sybian, but I could'nt let that pass.
Everyone, and conveniently most Americans, forget that the US nurtured and supported the Taliban as a counterinsurgency when Russia invaded Afghanistan. The Taliban would not exist today without America and the CIA.
 

Metaxa

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A rose by any other name...Without the American obsession at the time with containing the borders of the Soviet Union, Afghanistan would be the non-entity today it has pretty much been for most of its history before the Soviet invasion.
 

Metaxa

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Things have changed. Putin pretty much does as he wants to now. It started when Obama let him take Crimea without any consequences. Under the orange menace he has impunity.
 
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