I've been shopping around for a new car and noticed a very wide range of pricing as you go from Mazda and Toyota to Lexus and BMW. Also priced out Jag, Mercedes etc... My question is what, if anything other than "status" are you getting for your money? I also notice the upgrade packages are ridiculous. They throw together a bunch of stuff most people don't want or need and one thing most people want, and then charge a ton extra. So to get a decent stereo it ends up costing an extra $5000 - $10000.
Thoughts on different brands of vehicles.
- Thread starter johnnydepth
- Start date
I just went through this exercise earlier this year.
I checked out BMW, Toyota, Acura, Subaru and Honda. I've owned all of them except Subaru.
The upgrades as you say are a bit crazy especially with BMW.
I usually elect to go with better sound system, wheels, tires, brakes and extended warranty. This can easily be $10K to $15K or more.
I checked out BMW, Toyota, Acura, Subaru and Honda. I've owned all of them except Subaru.
The upgrades as you say are a bit crazy especially with BMW.
I usually elect to go with better sound system, wheels, tires, brakes and extended warranty. This can easily be $10K to $15K or more.
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That would be drive German built in Alabama?Wear Italian, kiss French and drive German
I have owned a Nash, an AMC, a Fiat, two VWs, a Honda and a Toyota.
My first choice would be another Toyota.
My first choice would be another Toyota.
To answer your question, you are getting status only. Euro vehicles have much higher maintenance and repair costs after year 7 compared to Japanese and Korean built vehicles but they are damn sexy and handle incredibly well. If it’s in your budget to buy new every 7 years, get Euro. If you plan on keeping your vehicle longer than 7 years, Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Hyundai/Kia are the way to go.
1. If you have the money and want status, Lease European cars or sell them before their warranty expires. When I found out that the battery change on my Porsche was 900$ while on my Jeep was $300, and that the brakes were $800 vs $200, I have never owned European cars past their warranty dates since. Don't burn cash over diminishing returns.
2. Put happiness at the top of your list.
3. Aftermarket sound systems cost only $2000 for the best and many other addons can be done yourself. A lot of times you can do DIY. Working on your own car isn't about saving money but about the joy associated with it.
4. Extended warranties are universally scams. Factory add-ons are the same.
5. Aggressive negotiation pays off. My Wrangler's MSRP was 45,000. I got it for 35,850. I never buy a car I can't take $8,000 off the sticker price for.
2. Put happiness at the top of your list.
3. Aftermarket sound systems cost only $2000 for the best and many other addons can be done yourself. A lot of times you can do DIY. Working on your own car isn't about saving money but about the joy associated with it.
4. Extended warranties are universally scams. Factory add-ons are the same.
5. Aggressive negotiation pays off. My Wrangler's MSRP was 45,000. I got it for 35,850. I never buy a car I can't take $8,000 off the sticker price for.
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Not for me...M-Cars from Munich, S and RS cars from Ingolstadt and AMG in Baden. Driving, (for many) is a mundane chore and any 'appliance' would suffice...conversely, I enjoy the full experience and want that 'seat-of-the-pants' feel. Throw a V8, all-wheel drive, 6-speed in a wagon (estate/touring) and I'm 'all-in'
Before making your choice, johnnydept, keep in mind that:
"There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
particularly in women. Chief among these is the Mercedes-Benz SL500."
"There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
particularly in women. Chief among these is the Mercedes-Benz SL500."
I have no problem spending $100k plus if I'm truly getting something more for my money. As for women, any woman that cares about what you drive probably isn't worth knowing. If she likes the Mercedes she can buy her own.
Americans are every bit as capable of building very high quality vehicles as anyone else. Acura makes the NSX in Ohio.
Italy makes shitty cars but also makes handcrafted beauties. Britain made lots of garbage but I have seen two plants making very nice stuff.
Same with USA and Canada. I went through the Ford plant in Oakville and it was not great. I went through the Harley plant in KC and was very impressed.
Differences in quality are mostly engineered in, by product engineers and production engineers.
Assembly line workers have a set amount of time to do a specific task. How much time they have determines how careful they can be. At Harley they had lots of time and were extremely careful. At Ford they had barely enough time and were rushing to finish. The extra labour at HD adds to the final sticker price.
At Ford brake lines were standard crap. At the UK plant I saw they used stainless braided hose. One costs several times more than the other and will last forever. One takes a few minutes to install, the other takes several minutes to install. It's not about prestige, nobody will ever see the hose, but the owner will know it is there.
I would love to tour the AMG plant. Like HD they have a single employee assemble motors start to finish. I would like to see the Ferrari factory even more.
I know it's a bit of a blanket statement but for the most part, there's a qualitative difference when you spend more for the German/Euro makes. Whether it matters depends on the person/driver. I disagree that you only gain "status" with the European makes over Japanese and American cars. American cars have always come up short in details such as styling, fit and finish and refinement. Japanese cars have always had efficient performance, were reliable as hell but lack any emotional appeal and tend to drive like appliances. European cars have always been more costly to own (from purchase price to maintenance) but that extra money goes towards an overall qualitatively better driving experience. European cars have always led the way in terms of performance, ride and handling. If you're a driver who can appreciate this and don't treat driving as a chore to get from point A to B then you probably already own or have owned a European car.
What it always comes down to is, what do you value most and what is your budget. There's something for everyone in today's market. This cannot be stressed enough when BMW churns out abominations like X4's, 3-series drives like expensive Corollas and Mercedes has decided to dilute the AMG brand and make an AMG model for anything and everything.
What it always comes down to is, what do you value most and what is your budget. There's something for everyone in today's market. This cannot be stressed enough when BMW churns out abominations like X4's, 3-series drives like expensive Corollas and Mercedes has decided to dilute the AMG brand and make an AMG model for anything and everything.
Here's the definitive guide on dependability, if that is a concern.
https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/dependability/2019/Manufacturers
https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/dependability/2019/Manufacturers
From my experience German engineering these days is factory built-in to fail.During WW2 the Germans built their tanks to reliably drive 1 million miles though it was expensive.The USA produced 3 shermans built to last 100,000 miles knowing they would get blown to bits well before that.Have a timing belt snap on a VW means your cylinder head/heads are totally fucked as they make interference engines.
As for domestic do not under any circumstances EVER buy any product produced by Chrysler as the build quality is total SHITE.From the base Jeep models up the the premium ones.From the Grand Caravan to the Ram trucks.Nothing but SHITE build quality and the cheapest parts that can be used.I bought a new 2017 Nissan Frontier and a guy I know bought a new 2017 Grand Caravan.I have done basic oil changes as needed and so has he.He has also had to replace his drivers side rear light cluster as well as his windshield wiper motor and it was the entire unit.I cant wait to see what fails on his Caravan next LOL
SR
As for domestic do not under any circumstances EVER buy any product produced by Chrysler as the build quality is total SHITE.From the base Jeep models up the the premium ones.From the Grand Caravan to the Ram trucks.Nothing but SHITE build quality and the cheapest parts that can be used.I bought a new 2017 Nissan Frontier and a guy I know bought a new 2017 Grand Caravan.I have done basic oil changes as needed and so has he.He has also had to replace his drivers side rear light cluster as well as his windshield wiper motor and it was the entire unit.I cant wait to see what fails on his Caravan next LOL
SR
^ I don't see the relevance when most major car manufacturers make interference engines these days.
Do your research about that and also do your research about which manufacturers use timing belts VS timing chains....I myself have only seen the results of a single Toyota 22R engine "grenading" when the timing chain snapped and it was not pretty to say the least.
I bought a 2017 Nissan Frontier and I know if that engine is properly maintained I will be able to drive that truck for 1 million kilometers if not more and I wont have to worry about the engine killing itself due to a built in failure.
SR
^ No need to research as it's a moot point. People aren't basing their next car purchase on whether it's an interference engine or not that's in the engine bay.
With ever increasing demands for fuel efficiency and power, interference engines are here to stay. Whether it's a belt or chain, doesn't really matter so long as the owner does the required maintenance.
The OP did ask for opinions but not on the topic of engine design.
With ever increasing demands for fuel efficiency and power, interference engines are here to stay. Whether it's a belt or chain, doesn't really matter so long as the owner does the required maintenance.
The OP did ask for opinions but not on the topic of engine design.
