This is why Canada NEEDS a harsher justice system.

[mercyshooter]

So first, we need a good education system!

Unpossible, do some research. There are victims' families think that the death penality is necessary to ease their pain. Second, they are gonna educate people the consequence of murder! Actually these things are implied with the death penality on the table. The purpose is to educate people whatever they do, consequences follow!

 

[Webster]

So first, we need a good education system!

I am willing to wait until everyone agrees we have a good education system for capital punishment to be reinstated.

 

[uncleg]

nothing in life is perfect. business people make decisions all the time and have to live with the circumstances. i'm saying that we have to weigh the incredible greif of a family victimized by a repeat offender against the incredible grief of a person unjustly accused. weigh them - like on a balance - and if the balance tips in favour of the victims, especially vastly on the side of the victims, then the few unfortunate unjustly accused have to be thought of as acceptable losses. you might not have to make these kinds of decisions in your job, but i make them all the time. i've gotten used to it and i realize that society is no different

also, what determined the unjustness of the handful of recently proven 'unjustly accuseds'? it was new evidence in the form of DNA testing - well, guess what, we have DNA testing now and can be much more certain of our convictions. obviously capital punishment wouldn't be handed out in cases where it was only the weight of circumstantial eveidence that led to the conviction. but for a person caught red-handed or where the DNA evidence rules out all other possibilities - HANG 'EM HIGH, I SAY! (or sell lottery tickets for spots on the firing squad... lol)

So you and your family would have no problem with you being an "acceptable loss ?"

 

[storm rider]

I am willing to wait until everyone agrees we have a good education system for capital punishment to be reinstated.

We do have a good education system in Canada in broad terms and some Provincial systems are better than others.I am a product of that education system with both the Catholic seperate school system when I grew up in Calgary and as part of the Public system offered by BC when I moved there.I was taught the difference between right & wrong by my parents as well as at school.

Of course the rhetorical arguement is that people who commit violent crimes that lack a proper education are victims of society as they have not been properly educated or raised decently by their parents....which is utter BS.

Do you beat another kid to death in the 3rd grade during lunch because he does not want to trade his tasty oreo's for your carrot sticks?....nope.

Do you beat a fellow teenager at a bush party to death because he wont give you his last bottle of illegally obtained beer?....nope.

Do you as an adult beat a guy to death at Home Depot because he grabbed the last fancy BBQ that you wanted to buy but got there late?....nope.

Do you beat a guy to death whilst passing on the street after asking for a cigarette after he tells you...I dont have anymore/I am smoking my last one....or even if he tells you to fuck off....nope...not for a law abiding person that is....even if you are told to fuck off.....those 2 POS's made the instant decision to beat that guy to death or near death and let him lie there on the ground.They deserve no mercy or leniency.

SR

 

[mercyshooter]

Simply put: if you don't respect other people's lives, your life should be not too! If you have some self-respect, you should respect the effect of capital punishment!
In conclusion, the death penalty should educate you to respect each other's life. You kill them, you are dead too! That's humanity!

 

[luvsdaty]

An eye for an eye, leaves everybody blind.Life sentences with no chance for parole would suit me fine.Having spent the odd night in the drunk tank, being in a cell sucks,i can't imagine the rest of my life in one.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Oh, well, that's perfectly reasonable then. "Live with the circumstances" is probably the wrong metaphorical device.DNA testing is neither magic nor available in many circumstances.

Here are two guys who were killed when there was no case against them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

This is an excellent film, and exciting! Watch as the filmmaker actually draws out a confession from the real killer that the law didn't pursue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Blue_Line_(film)

please do not drag american examples into a discussion about capital punishment in Canada. different political systems, different legal systems, different cultural systems, different education systems, different class structures - they just don't translate at all

 

[vancity_cowboy]

So you and your family would have no problem with you being an "acceptable loss ?"

there are those in my family who would welcome it

 

[myselftheother]

An eye for an eye, leaves everybody blind.Life sentences with no chance for parole would suit me fine.Having spent the odd night in the drunk tank, being in a cell sucks,i can't imagine the rest of my life in one.

Thing is, with this sort of sentecing criminals will become more desparate to not be caught, doing any thing to escape being arrested, including killing anyone in their way. Got to be a a better solution than knee jerk responses.

 

[mercyshooter]

Thing is, with this sort of sentecing criminals will become more desparate to not be caught, doing any thing to escape being arrested, including killing anyone in their way. Got to be a a better solution than knee jerk responses.

Now that at least to force you to use your f**king brain. But if you got caught, you will want to say "end my life" in prision!

 

[Webster]

please do not drag american examples into a discussion about capital punishment in Canada. different political systems, different legal systems, different cultural systems, different education systems, different class structures - they just don't translate at all

So you want Canadian examples of guys who got railroaded? Easy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Marshall,_Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Truscott

 

[vancity_cowboy]

So you want Canadian examples of guys who got railroaded? Easy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Marshall,_Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Truscott

oh come on, you can do better than that... what about James Driskell, Anthony Hanemaayer, Simon Marshall, David Milgaard, Guy Paul Morin, William Mullins-Johnson, Romeo Phillion, Thomas Sophonow, Kyle Unger, Erin Walsh... and the list goes on


if you read my earlier post, they are two of the handful, many of whom have been recently exonerated by DNA evidence. and now that we have that method of collecting evidence, they would never have been convicted in a modern court of law in Canada

and yes, it was them, and the others to whom i was referring when i said 'acceptable losses'. i still maintain that i can find 15 victims for every one of those wrongfully convicted who have suffered grieviously at the hands of prematurely released multiple offenders, many murdered, leaving their families in a state of grief for the rest of their lives. oh, and don't get me started on early releasees stalking and killing their ex-girlfriends. let me see: one wrongfully accused executed vs. 15 greiviously hurt or killed by early releasees... hmm... sorry, easy decision there...

 

[Webster]

and yes, it was them, and the others to whom i was referring when i said 'acceptable losses'. i still maintain that i can find 15 victims for every one of those wrongfully convicted who have suffered grieviously at the hands of prematurely released multiple offenders, many murdered, leaving their families in a state of grief for the rest of their lives. oh, and don't get me started on early releasees stalking and killing their ex-girlfriends. let me see: one wrongfully accused executed vs. 15 greiviously hurt or killed by early releasees... hmm... sorry, easy decision there...

Well, your calculation hasn't changed, and I think this bloodless acceptance of the deaths of innocents is gonna be the stumbling block for your advocacy of this. It just doesn't fly without people accepting that they are monsters.

But go on then: after the list of 12 innocents you owe the names of 180 victims who would have been alive if their murderers had been executed for their capital crimes.

 

[Cock Throppled]

We read almost daily about people out on early release, bail, probation killing or hurting other people.
The fact past convictions and patterns of behaviour aren't allowed in court is another bad rule that allows a lot of offenders to escape justice or receive lower sentences.
How else do you determine the character of a witness, victim or perpetrator but by past behaviour? If that includes multiple convictions for crimes why isn't it allowed in testimony?

 

[uncleg]

there are those in my family who would welcome it

I'm sure there are. In fact we all probably have somebody in our lives that would like to see us ride the lightning, but what about you ? Are you prepared to be an acceptable loss ?

 

[Jistaguy19]

Capital Punishment does not lower the crime rate.

The murder rate in mid 70s was 3.0 per 100,000 and in 1.81 in 2010. In the US States without Capital Punishment have better numbers than States with Capital Punishments.

Marcus Tremaine Deveaux is dead, I feel bad but I am not after payback. But I am more worry about is stopping the next Marcus Tremaine Deveaux from happening. It is a fact that harsher justice system creates more criminals, more victims and it cost a lot of money.

How many stories have we heard over the last few years about men sent away for crimes they didn't do? How much will these new Canadian Crime laws cost? Feds will not say and the some guys who work for the Provinces told me they are screwed (going to cost the Provinces billions)

The question in this case we have to ask why manslaughter? The judge and the Crown both agreed on manslaughter. I need more detail before I judge them. But there must be a reason why they picked manslaughter over 2nd or 1st degree murder.

Whine, Whine, Whine,
I have no idea about how many men have been sent away for crimes they did not do, but I suspect you have no idea either. This whole train of thought is very popular amongst bleeding hearts as it tugs at the emotions and requires no actual proof, however I have a question.

Out of all the criminals in history that have received a death sentence, and where it was actually carried out, how many later re-offended?
See there is a question we can both answer accurately, the answer is ZERO (0), however I do throw out the challenge for you to prove me wrong. Good Luck

 

[HankQuinlan]

Whine, Whine, Whine,
I have no idea about how many men have been sent away for crimes they did not do, but I suspect you have no idea either. This whole train of thought is very popular amongst bleeding hearts as it tugs at the emotions and requires no actual proof, however I have a question.

Out of all the criminals in history that have received a death sentence, and where it was actually carried out, how many later re-offended?
See there is a question we can both answer accurately, the answer is ZERO (0), however I do throw out the challenge for you to prove me wrong. Good Luck

WTF? There have been many cases where there was a great deal of proof that convicted killers were innocent.

Whining? The post you quoted raised facts and asked question. I see no whining.

Tugs at the emotions? That is the entire argument for the death sentence -- and much of the argument for harsher sentences (not that some wouldn't be justified). Revenge makes some victims (far from all) feel better. Proof that it affects the crime rate? None.

As to your "final argument" -- bullshit and utterly meaningless. The innocent people executed are never going to offend again (or for the first time) either.

 

[myselftheother]

Now that at least to force you to use your f**king brain. But if you got caught, you will want to say "end my life" in prision!

Didn't understand your first sentence, and if you did get caught and under the same sentencing that there is in the US, people going away for years for just smoking a bit of weed, or less than a gram or just a joint in their posession. I agreee for stronger sentencing for violent offenders and sexual predators, but death sentences...doesn't work.

 

[mercyshooter]

Didn't understand your first sentence, and if you did get caught and under the same sentencing that there is in the US, people going away for years for just smoking a bit of weed, or less than a gram or just a joint in their posession. I agreee for stronger sentencing for violent offenders and sexual predators, but death sentences...doesn't work.

He's dead. So, I don't have to think about him or pay my money to support his living! :thumb: Move on that quick!

 

[BrokeBastard]

I want you to prove to me that the death penalty makes victims families feel better. Got it ?

I remember when Clifford Olson died you had a lot of posters celebrating his death. Apparently he taunted the victim's families by appealing for probation? This is an extreme case when the death penalty would have made the victims feel better.