The war on terror VS the Mexican war on drugs

storm rider

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Whilst I dont know the fulll body count from both Iraq and Afghanistan for soldiers/police/civillians I imagine it is pretty high.I dont think it is as high as the ongoing war on drugs in Mexico that was launched in 2006.So far more than 30,000 police/soldiers/criminals/civillians have been killed with gun battles happening in broad daylight...de-capitated bodies have been dumped beneath an underpass during rush hour with the criminals waving automatic weapons at motorists very recently.

SR
 
Jun 15, 2010
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I was just discussing the very same topic with a couple of friends last night. Apparently, the unofficial body count from both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is around the 900,000 mark.

De-capitated bodies in Mexico are happening more frequently than reported. If vacationing North Americans think they are shielded from such sights think again.

A little while ago, there were 4 beheadings on the supposedly future development site of Trump Baja Ocean Resort. No public reporting for obvious PR reasons. The Trump International Hotel and Resort were billed for the clean-up and for the re painting of the white coloured wall that was splattered with blood. Gee, I wonder how that Invoice read.

Peace.
 

violetblake

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It's an interesting topic alright. I was speaking with a fellow from Mexico a while ago about this, and asked him what his thoughts were on the subject. He raised an interesting point, that although corruption isn't exactly great, it worked for that country. Now, the current president supposedly isn't involved in corruption and is pushing hard against the cartels, instead of "working with them". It sounds a little odd for it to be a good thing for the government to work with gangs but when he explained it to me it makes sense. You can't just take a country that operates on corruption and suddenly turn it upside down, this backlash from the cartels is what you get. In any case, this is just what he was telling me, I really have no idea what the solution is.
 

badbadboy

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It's an interesting topic alright. I was speaking with a fellow from Mexico a while ago about this, and asked him what his thoughts were on the subject. He raised an interesting point, that although corruption isn't exactly great, it worked for that country. Now, the current president supposedly isn't involved in corruption and is pushing hard against the cartels, instead of "working with them". It sounds a little odd for it to be a good thing for the government to work with gangs but when he explained it to me it makes sense. You can't just take a country that operates on corruption and suddenly turn it upside down, this backlash from the cartels is what you get. In any case, this is just what he was telling me, I really have no idea what the solution is.
The problem is under the old regime, corruption worked for Mexico with the Police and Military doing what the President a select group of friends wanted them to do. With US DEA playing an active role keeping the cartels under closer observation and being hands on with the Mexican Police/Military it has rooted out many of the corrupt groups. Net result is infighting between police/military/cartels/politicians to establish a new order of corruption.

A company I am associated with has a presence in Mexico. They had to search for 8 - 10 months to find an area that not only had qualified people but also was far enough away from the Texas border to not become involved in any dangerous situations. When they were researching a new building in a high tech area in Mexico. They thought they found the perfect location when gun fire erupted in the industrial park 100 meters away. Now they are located about 3 hours from the Texas border.
 

Cock Throppled

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Everybody taking a toke or doing some blow is guilty of the gang deaths here and in Mexico.

Whether you want to admit it or not.
The drug war is a failure, but that doesn't absolve US and Canadian users of blame for the violence around supplying drugs.
 

HankQuinlan

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Everybody taking a toke or doing some blow is guilty of the gang deaths here and in Mexico.

Whether you want to admit it or not.
The drug war is a failure, but that doesn't absolve US and Canadian users of blame for the violence around supplying drugs.
Bullshit. I know where my pot comes from -- and it isn't from Mexico or anybody else with violent tendencies. You sound like those ads from a while ago -- smoking pot is supporting the terrorists.

The violence around drugs is entirely the responsibility of the laws. Instead, we have our federal government putting even stupider laws in place, which will have no effect whatsoever on drug use or drug violence.

And of course, those speakeasy patrons in the '20s were responsible for the Valentine's Day Massacre. If only they had obeyed the law, no matter how stupid it was.....
 

Tugela

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The point is that the "war" is having little effect on the flow of drugs. So, the problems associated with drug use are still here anyway, plus there are the problems associated with supression. It makes more sense to get rid of half the problem than have to deal with a double dose.

The issue is that people think they can solve a social problem with abolition/prohibition, but instead it drives it underground where criminals can profit from it, and creates a whole slew of further problems. If you create a situation where violent people can make enormous amounts of money by being violent, then don't be surprised when you see violence. It is kind of obvious. The approach government takes with regulating alcohol is a much more logical way of dealing with it.
 

juniper

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Bullshit. I know where my pot comes from -- and it isn't from Mexico or anybody else with violent tendencies. You sound like those ads from a while ago -- smoking pot is supporting the terrorists.

The violence around drugs is entirely the responsibility of the laws. Instead, we have our federal government putting even stupider laws in place, which will have no effect whatsoever on drug use or drug violence.

And of course, those speakeasy patrons in the '20s were responsible for the Valentine's Day Massacre. If only they had obeyed the law, no matter how stupid it was.....
Yeah, if we only gave out free cocaine, heroin and other inhibitors and de-inhibitors with no laws regarding who could use these substances, Hank, there would be, as you suggest, no problems, no violence.
 

Pirate Code

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May 18, 2011
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Bullshit. I know where my pot comes from -- and it isn't from Mexico or anybody else with violent tendencies. You sound like those ads from a while ago -- smoking pot is supporting the terrorists.

The violence around drugs is entirely the responsibility of the laws. Instead, we have our federal government putting even stupider laws in place, which will have no effect whatsoever on drug use or drug violence.

And of course, those speakeasy patrons in the '20s were responsible for the Valentine's Day Massacre. If only they had obeyed the law, no matter how stupid it was.....
The point is that the "war" is having little effect on the flow of drugs. So, the problems associated with drug use are still here anyway, plus there are the problems associated with supression. It makes more sense to get rid of half the problem than have to deal with a double dose.

The issue is that people think they can solve a social problem with abolition/prohibition, but instead it drives it underground where criminals can profit from it, and creates a whole slew of further problems. If you create a situation where violent people can make enormous amounts of money by being violent, then don't be surprised when you see violence. It is kind of obvious. The approach government takes with regulating alcohol is a much more logical way of dealing with it.

I second both these comments.

There is much work to be done to heal our society, starting at the core- the family unit, which has all but disintegrated in the last 40 years. Alongside that is diet and exercise. Our calorie-rich, nutrition-poor, couch-potato lifestyle has us craving anything to make us feel better.
 

Cock Throppled

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Bullshit. I know where my pot comes from -- and it isn't from Mexico or anybody else with violent tendencies. You sound like those ads from a while ago -- smoking pot is supporting the terrorists.

The violence around drugs is entirely the responsibility of the laws. Instead, we have our federal government putting even stupider laws in place, which will have no effect whatsoever on drug use or drug violence.

And of course, those speakeasy patrons in the '20s were responsible for the Valentine's Day Massacre. If only they had obeyed the law, no matter how stupid it was.....
Congratulations to you if you know for certain that whoever supplies you has no connections to gangs, but you would certainly be in the monority, so my contention is far from bullshit.

Just curious who you think is supplying most of the illegal drugs if it isn't gangs?
 

HankQuinlan

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Congratulations to you if you know for certain that whoever supplies you has no connections to gangs, but you would certainly be in the monority, so my contention is far from bullshit.

Just curious who you think is supplying most of the illegal drugs if it isn't gangs?
Other than pot, I suspect there are a number of not-nice people involved somewhere in the chain prior to the consumer. I also suspect that organized pot growers with large operations (not all of whom fit the stereotype of "gangs" or who would resort to violence -- although obviously some do) sell most of their product either to the US (where BC bud is highly desireable, as we have a reputation for quality) or to mid-level suppliers in Vancouver or other large Canadian cities. The situation in other provinces unblessed by the local supply, I can't say.

Everyone I know personally, or are aware of, taps into the same loose networks of growers and suppliers -- and I am sure that is also true throughout all the smaller towns and rural areas in this province. But, I am sure, since these people make their income from cooperating to sell an illegal product, they would be considered "gangs" in the eyes of the law, and subject to the harsher new minimum sentences -- which will do nothing except ruin the lives of some pretty decent people.

And of course, the price for a decent ounce will end up rising -- if there is any greater effort at enforcement.

Meanwhile, if you buy beverages containing alcohol, you are supporting an industry which provides the means to cause a great deal of death and destruction and ruined lives -- without violent gangs involved in the chain, except for the ones that wear suits and file taxes and reap the profits. And remember how Seagram's got their start on the way to being a huge multinational corporation.
 

HankQuinlan

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Yeah, if we only gave out free cocaine, heroin and other inhibitors and de-inhibitors with no laws regarding who could use these substances, Hank, there would be, as you suggest, no problems, no violence.
Maybe you should do some research on the situation in Portugal, which gave up the war on drugs quite a few years ago.
 

Cock Throppled

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Meanwhile, if you buy beverages containing alcohol, you are supporting an industry which provides the means to cause a great deal of death and destruction and ruined lives -- without violent gangs involved in the chain, except for the ones that wear suits and file taxes and reap the profits. And remember how Seagram's got their start on the way to being a huge multinational corporation.
Perhaps one of the lamest attempts at denying responsibility and deflecting the point I've seen on any forum.

You could make that analogy about Mcdonald's and hamburgers. The profits from drugs and the laws against them fuels the violence.
 

badbadboy

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The term "War on Drugs" was first coined by Richard Nixon in 1971.

How's it working out so far?

:pound:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs

Legalizing Pot would take a huge chunk out of the cartels and gangs ability to profit from drugs. Focusing on the so called harder drugs by DEA et al would at least put further pressure to distribute to N American customers.

It's pretty obvious that throwing money at the problem has not worked so far. On any given day I can see people smoking crack, shooting up and doing all sorts of drugs in Vancouver. Not just on the Downtown East Side either.
 

HankQuinlan

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Perhaps one of the lamest attempts at denying responsibility and deflecting the point I've seen on any forum.

You could make that analogy about Mcdonald's and hamburgers. The profits from drugs and the laws against them fuels the violence.
Just sayin' it because it's obviously true. Marijuana is a harmless substance compared to alcohol (or tobacco, or Big Macs, although I don't doubt it has led to Big Mac abuse). And the people I know that make their living from pot are pretty virtuous people compared to say, the average liquor company executive or bank trader.

And the truth is, I would likely still buy pot if the only source came from Mexico (which I greatly doubt ever makes it to Canada)...and I do advocate personally and under my own name that the stupid laws be changed -- and instead, we are making them worse.
 

WrongMan

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Just sayin' it because it's obviously true. Marijuana is a harmless substance compared to alcohol (or tobacco, or Big Macs, although I don't doubt it has led to Big Mac abuse). And the people I know that make their living from pot are pretty virtuous people compared to say, the average liquor company executive or bank trader.

And the truth is, I would likely still buy pot if the only source came from Mexico (which I greatly doubt ever makes it to Canada)...and I do advocate personally and under my own name that the stupid laws be changed -- and instead, we are making them worse.
I am not saying that pot is bad but not kid ourselves about the people behind it.

This topic is on the Mexican drug war, it has a side effect on Canada. The Mexican cartels run their cocaine up to LA. The Canadian gangs ship their pot down to LA in exchange for it. Now the Mexican drug war is driving the price up. Supply is getting hard to get so the BC pot gangs the United Nations and Red Scorpion went to war over it.
 

wet_suit_one

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Congratulations to you if you know for certain that whoever supplies you has no connections to gangs, but you would certainly be in the monority, so my contention is far from bullshit.

Just curious who you think is supplying most of the illegal drugs if it isn't gangs?
Why not let Safeway supply the drugs? Let a farmer grow the stuff, (just like tabacco), and let Safeway distribute it?

Can't do that with the current laws, but without them, I'm pretty sure some decent folks will take up the business. You used to buy cocaine in pharmacies. Why not again?
 
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